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Software Patents Poised To Make a Comeback Under New Patent Office Rules (arstechnica.com)

Ben Klemens writes via Ars Technica: A landmark 2014 ruling by the Supreme Court called into question the validity of many software patents. In the wake of that ruling, countless broad software patents became invalid, dealing a blow to litigation-happy patent trolls nationwide. But this week the US Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) proposed new rules that would make it easier to patent software. If those rules take effect, it could take us back to the bad old days when it was easy to get broad software patents -- and to sue companies that accidentally infringe them.

The Federal Circuit Appeals Court is the nation's highest patent court below the Supreme Court, and it is notoriously patent friendly. Ever since the Supreme Court's 2014 ruling, known as Alice v. CLS Bank, the Federal Circuit has worked to blunt the ruling's impact. In a 2016 ruling called Enfish, the Federal Circuit ruling took a single sentence from the Supreme Court's 2014 ruling and used it as the legal foundation for approving more software patents. This legal theory, known as the "technical effects doctrine," holds that software that improves the functioning of a computer should be eligible for a patent. A version of this rule has long held sway in Europe, but it has only recently started to have an impact in U.S. law.

This week, the Patent Office published a new draft of the section on examining software and other potentially abstract ideas in its Manual of Patent Examination Procedure (MPEP). This is the official document that helps patent examiners understand and interpret relevant legal principles. The latest version, drawing on recent Federal Circuit rulings, includes far tighter restrictions on what may be excluded from patentability. This matters because there's significant evidence that the proliferation of software patents during the 1990s and 2000s had a detrimental impact on innovation -- precisely the opposite of how patents are supposed to work.

77 comments

  1. Re:What else made a cum back? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's past your bedtime, Donnie... Did you brush your teeth?

  2. Software already has IP protection by mark-t · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's called copyright.

    And at least with copyright, you may be able to make a fair use claim when you make a copy that is strictly for personal use... with patents, no fair use exemption exists.

    1. Re:Software already has IP protection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly! So I wonder if this is going to impact our renowned resident IT clerk from San Jose who works in Palo Alto with his multiple patents and copyrights that he has successfully accumulated over the years with his multiple ventures and long tail revenue streams, is it?

    2. Re:Software already has IP protection by Frank+Burly · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I saw an opportunity to be technically correct, and found out things had changed since I last looked at them. There was once a sort of "fair use" exception for "philosophical experimentation," but that has since been narrowed to oblivion by the same Federal Circuit. https://www.patentdocs.org/201...

    3. Re:Software already has IP protection by hashish16 · · Score: 1

      With patents there is the longstanding common-law Experimental Use Exception to Patent Infringement. As long as there is no explicit or implicit business purpose. So personal use for research purposes is allowed.

    4. Re:Software already has IP protection by dfghjk · · Score: 1

      Copyrights and patents do not overlap and serve different purposes. The existence of copyright does not mean that patents don't apply to software.

      Also, fair use is a term applied only to copyright, that doesn't mean that patents lack usage exemptions.

    5. Re:Software already has IP protection by dfghjk · · Score: 1

      Correct, and furthermore, the entire purpose of patents is to teach others your inventive ideas to further technical advancement. "Personal use for research purposes" is the entire point of patents, and in exchange you are granted a limited monopoly (which is commercial in nature).

      The suggestion that patents lack "faIr use" is absurd.

    6. Re:Software already has IP protection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that software that improves the functioning of a computer should be eligible for a patent.

      This is the appliance or robot clause. It requires the accompanying hardware which is being functionally improved.

  3. This is what you get by rsilvergun · · Score: 4, Informative

    when you've got a government staffed with pro-corporate politicians from top to bottom. Start showing up to your primaries folks if you want any of this to change. And start demanding politicians who refuse corporate PAC money, like these.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:This is what you get by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Nothing of what you said proved money in politics can't be regulated on some level. You're just a nihilist. The reason it IS NOT NOW regulated well is by the design of unscrupulous people involved with the Citizens United decision.

    2. Re:This is what you get by g01d4 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      pro-corporate politicians

      I'd think this runs both ways with corporations as they're just as likely to get hassled as to hassle someone. Perhaps the big boys will just pay each other off or otherwise collude to keep the small fry at bay. Disgusting.

    3. Re:This is what you get by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Start showing up all the time. And write letters. Mine usually say something to the effect of "dear sir/madame, i usually do not vote. But your drafting of bill "xyzfuinthea" is inspiring me not only to vote for whomever is running against you, but to bring 8 of my friends to vote for your opponent as well. We will also be visiting your neighborhood to elucidate your neighbors on your incompetent greed. Additionally we will be canvassing near your child's school so that their classmates will tell them what a dillhole you are. Perhaps when you get off of your knees from in front of your corporate paymasters, you can set aside some time for doing what is right for your country and its citizens instead of the global-multinational mega corps that you sold out to. Kindest regards.

    4. Re:This is what you get by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      Uhm... Sharia law is the law of the land in Saudi Arabia - the best friend of Trump.

    5. Re:This is what you get by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you considered consuming less mainstream media? It seems like you're projecting a lot of things and expecting people to agree with you.

    6. Re:This is what you get by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      Everyone seems to forget a lot of politicians are in fact Lawyers and they do shit that favours lawyers and no one else bad lawyers, in fact laws made worse or obfuscated because that feeds lawyers and legal firms, of which many politicians and check out their families, are members. Bad laws, poorly written on purpose by lawyers to fill the pockets of their lawyer friends and family at everyone eles's expense. To prove how bad lawyers are, look no further than IBM and Microsoft, IBMs own in house lawyers diddled IBM investors in collusion with Billy Gates Mommy and Daddy lawyers, to get MSDOS (QDOS quick dirty operating system) without any copyright or patent protections, IBM's own lawyers diddled IBMs investors, hard.

      What was so wrong with all those companies going through all previous patents throughout history and adding 'DO IT ON A COMPUTER' and then patenting it. Lawyers make work for lawyers. When negotiating a contract, do not involve lawyers until the last minute, just to check do not involve them in the negotiating process unless you want it to blow out in time and cost, on purpose.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    7. Re:This is what you get by hey! · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It actually wouldn't be so bad if those politicians were just pro-corporation. But what they are is pro-their-donors, which makes them pro status quo. It is in their interests to protect their donors against the entry of new competitors to the market.

      Many years ago I was CTO in a small startup and every so often someone would come into my office and say, "Hey, listen to this. There's this patent..."

      And I'd stop him right there. "STOP. This is going to be some bullshit patent where they took stuff people have been doing for years with LORAN, but do it with GPS instead or something like that."

      "Well, yeah. So what they did was..."

      And I'd have to stop him again. "STOP. I can't hear this. If this is something we're already doing and they find out, we'll have to negotiate a settlement. But if I've heard what this patent does, we'll have to negotiate while facing treble damages."

      Software patent examiners were so bad, they frequently enabled trolls and entrenched players block new competitors from using long established practices in conjunction with commonplace new technologies. And they remained bad for so many years, not despite stifling new competition. If politicians were pro competition that problem would have been fixed immediately.

      This made looking at patents an extremely risky for a working software engineer. That undermines the whole basis of the patent system, which isn't there to benefit only inventors. The patent system is at its root a deal: you the inventor get a limited time, government enforced monopoly on your invention in return for disclosing how the invention works. That disclosure means that at the conclusion of the patent the ideas go into the public domain as common knowledge.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    8. Re:This is what you get by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This isn't pro-corporate - this is a self licking ice cream cone for the patent application process. This is in the interest in maximizing the "business" done by the USPTO and maximizing the revenue for everyone associated with it. Corporations just take advantage of this - they are not the drivers of this policy. Government organizations take on a private business mentality and do everything they can to expand, grow, etc. In theory, if a portion of the government becomes obsolete, it would be removed. In reality, that unit looks for some other way to survive, grow, etc. Once you create an office, good luck getting rid of it.

      Money is exchanged to file a patent.

      The amount of money exchanged can be maximized by allowing as many things to be patented as possible because then patents will be filed for everything no matter how ridiculous.

      The company I work for has a patent on a "Kinetic air defense" system for aircraft (US15092537/US9671200B1). The patent consists of a cartoon (!) showing a stealthy looking aircraft with a, well, cartoon box that can pop! out and deploy thingys. A "control system" will guide the thingys to the other thingys trying to take out the aircraft. Absolutely no details on the control system, math, physics whatever, are covered - this is the same level of sophistication as what the average boy in 4th grade doodles (at least, for those destined to be engineers). I'm embarrassed to see this associated with the company - how do the engineers who filed this sleep at night? Oh yea, that is right - "leadership" ties promotions to patents, so every time someone at the company wipes their ass they file a patent for it!

      I actually do some really cutting edge stuff for these idiots and it drives management nuts I won't file anything (they want you to file stuff even when the government paid for it!). Of course I'm many years behind on a promotion due to this but that is why we have resumes (for now there are still some interesting things to work on)...

    9. Re:This is what you get by someoneOtherThanMe · · Score: 2

      ...do not involve them in the negotiating process unless you want it to blow out in time and cost, on purpose.

      That's easy to say from not-a-lawyer perspective, when you haven't seen shit fail due to bad contracts. I can easily imagine people building an IT system saying "don't involve the security guys unless you want it to blow out in time and cost, on purpose".

    10. Re:This is what you get by fustakrakich · · Score: 0

      No, money can only be regulated by the voter. They're either for it, or against it. It is trivial to track a politician's funding now and find out who they serve. Citizens United is the correct decision. It is the voters' obligation to turn their backs. If they fail, they have no one else to blame.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    11. Re: This is what you get by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obama's never even been there!

    12. Re:This is what you get by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All politicians are corrupt and if they are not yet, they will be once they are in power. Government is there to serve those who pay the most.
      So instead of trying to reach some idealistic moral heights and then crash and burn when that fails we should recognize and embrace this state of affairs.
      Patents should be extended to allow everything including books, music and video and those.
      Patent payments should be annual and start at $100,000 per patent with patent applicant allowed to pay more. It should be possible to patent the same thing multiple times and the applicant that paid the most will receive the most of the patent protection and those that paid less will get less. They can all sue each other and those who paid the most will win...with multiple parties allowed to pool their protection levels together.
      If we can't tax them, make them pay through the patent system.

    13. Re:This is what you get by GrumpySteen · · Score: 1

      Perhaps the big boys will just pay each other off or otherwise collude to keep the small fry at bay.

      There's no "Perhaps" to it. That is exactly what the big tech corporations have been doing for decades.

    14. Re:This is what you get by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Citizens United is the correct decision.", please seek help before your delusion becomes dangerous to yourself or others.

    15. Re:This is what you get by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PTO isn't necessarily doing this as a means for making money. I'm at patent examiner at the PTO, and our problem for the last 5 years has been trying to keep up with the moving target that is software eligibility. Of late the amount of time and consideration we were expected to put into determining if a claim was patent eligible was getting ridiculous. We were essentially being asked to write a legal brief for every software claim we got, since we are mostly engineers or computer scientists we don't really have the expertise to engage in deep legal debate on every single case, let alone the fact that we aren't given much time per case. This particular set of rules was put in place largely to save us time and focus more on examining aspects of novelty and non-obviousness for which we are much better equipped. PTO has historically fought pretty hard against software patents because it is very difficult to establish novelty/non-obviousness in devices and methods that have no physical components or steps.

      As to your point of the lack of details in patents, it is definitely a problem, but there are a few issues here as well. In the US an inventor is entitled to a patent UNLESS we can prove otherwise. It isn't enough for me to just say 'this lacks technical details' and reject it, I would have to rejected it under the authority of a statute or else I am overstepping my authority. To reject it (in that case under 35 U.S.C. 112(a)) I would have to go through a lengthy process of explaining how 'one of ordinary skill in the art' would have to perform undue experimentation to make or use the invention. These terms are both pretty open to interpretation and again it takes a lot of time to make a case for that kind of rejection so these rejections aren't typically made unless the lack of disclosure is egregious.

    16. Re:This is what you get by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're just a nihilist.

      And you are just naive. Yes, "politics [can] be regulated on some level." You bet. And who has the power to actually do this regulation?

      The politicians.

      Yes, voters select the politicians. No, that does not mean that honest and loyal people become politicians. And no, that does not mean that voters control what politicians do.

      You see, voting means that power-acquisition is just a popularity contest. And the most effective means of becoming popular are:

      1) appeal to the pettiness of the lowest common denominator of the voting populace
      2) lie

      Honest, loyal, competent people don't do either of these things. And therefore, they never garner enough votes to win office. And therefore, they can't do any good. The people who DO do these things are precisely the sorts of people that seek to abuse their power, to their own benefit, and to the detriment of the people in general.

      Of course, they can't just abuse their power to the point of straight-up destroying the country. They need the economy to basically function, in order for their office to even exist. So, that common need unites all the politicians in office, and motivates them to put a limit on how much corruption and wrong they collectively accomplish. This upper limit to corruption forces them to squabble over who benefits the most from it.

      But the one thing that does not motivate any of them is.....fairness.

    17. Re:This is what you get by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Troll

      Oh dear! So much politics! You democrats are still losers! Not the party, you fanbois, the party is more powerful than ever.

  4. Re:What else made a cum back? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's so poetic!

  5. Re: What else made a cum back? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you want a patent you cant just have one. You have to fill out the application and stand in the correct line

  6. I patent useing the letter E in software! by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    I patent useing the letter E in software!

    1. Re:I patent useing the letter E in software! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm going to patent using set theory in computer programs.

      Just try using numbers after that!

    2. Re: I patent useing the letter E in software! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am going to patent two consecutive es.

    3. Re:I patent useing the letter E in software! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I patent a piece of software that uninstalls MS Windows and installs Linux, does that fit the criteria of "improves the functioning of a computer" ?

  7. Re: What else made a cum back? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No it is boring

  8. Does not apply to most cases by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >>>>>This legal theory, known as the "technical effects doctrine," holds that software that improves the functioning of a computer should be eligible for a patent.

    This would not apply to most software, which is most crap, and make the functioning of a computer worse.

    1. Re:Does not apply to most cases by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and 99% of the software really does not have anything to do with making computer function any differently other than obviously processing the program to accomplish transferring input to output.

  9. Impeachment by StormReaver · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Every single judge in the ninth circuit that votes to ignore the Supreme Court needs to be impeached and removed from office. I would also be favorable to giving some of them jail time.

    1. Re:Impeachment by BitterOak · · Score: 2

      Every single judge in the ninth circuit that votes to ignore the Supreme Court needs to be impeached and removed from office. I would also be favorable to giving some of them jail time.

      The article is talking about the Federal Circuit, not the Ninth Circuit. The Federal Circuit hears appeals to patent cases nationwide. And I don't think there is any mechanism, nor should there be, for jailing judges that don't interpret precedent in the way you'd like.

      --
      If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
    2. Re:Impeachment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IF a Judge Ignores the Supreme Court They will be over rule of Appeal.

        I would also be favorable to giving some clueless posters some jail time.
      But since that in not a law either, it is also NOT Happening. And Never will.
       

    3. Re:Impeachment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not jailed, but disciplined and/or removed. That can happen if judges blatantly disregard or make orders contrary to decisions of higher courts. See Roy Moore.

    4. Re:Impeachment by StormReaver · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I posted that too close to bedtime to remember which court was being discussed. Yes, the Federal Circuit judges should all be impeached as negligent.

  10. just move countries - well done USA - move out by johnjones · · Score: 3, Insightful

    dont have a office in the USA or bank account (you can still accept US dollars etc )

    USA is the last place you want to pay tax's

    If your selling software even a small amount do as the large corporate entities do and pay no tax... It's the American Corporate Way
    vote with your dollars and tax then they might get the message...

             

  11. Re:Guess what nazi cowards get, lol. #ROPE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If someone said Christians don't care about software patents would you also call them a nazi? Keeping crying nazi, then when there's a real nazi, people will be like "oh trump was a 'nazi' and he wasn't so bad"...

  12. Aren't they shut down? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How is it that the Patent Office is even making this kind of rule right now? Is it such an essential agency that its workers were not sent home during the shutdown?

    1. Re:Aren't they shut down? by CaptQuark · · Score: 1
      From the Patent and Trademark Office website:

      Although parts of the federal government have experienced a lapse in appropriated funding, the USPTO remains open for business as normal. This is possible because the agency has access to prior-year fee collections, which enables the USPTO to continue normal operations for a few weeks. Should the USPTO exhaust these funds before a partial government shutdown comes to an end, the agency would have to shut down at that time, although a small staff would continue to work to receive new applications and any other examination, post-examination, post-issuance, and PTAB or TTAB filings; receive payments related to such filings; and maintain IT infrastructure, among other functions.

  13. Software patents weren't the cause of trolls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It was with juries full of people with no technical backgrounds or even a basic understanding of patent law that opened the door for patent trolls.

  14. No circuit splits by tepples · · Score: 1

    As I see it, one problem with the Federal Circuit handling all patent cases is that there's never a circuit split, which means less threat of the Supreme Court accepting a case to resolve an interpretation.

    1. Re:No circuit splits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but the flip side is that you have consistent nationwide patent law instead of a hodgepodge for the years it takes the Supreme Court to resolve a circuit split. Some businesses and software developers might hate the law from the Federal Circuit, but anyone sane would hate the uncertainty more. Unless the idea of needing 12 infringement opinions instead of 1 appeals to to you, I guess. Or finding out that the only place you can release your code for the next X years is Illinois, Indiana, and Wisconsin.

      The Supreme Court can and does step in when they believe the Federal Circuit has it wrong- see Alice in the first place, as well as very key findings in Teva, Nautilus, etc.

      If anything, you should be against the Supreme Court evaluating these things unless you're into it only on the grounds that you think they'll make the decision you want. They simply don't have the expertise in the area and are just as likely to get it wrong as right. See the poor guidance in Alice, for example. There's not much of a way to explain this ongoing problem other than that the Supreme Court doesn't understand it well enough to have given clear but broad instructions useful in the next case.

    2. Re:No circuit splits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Consistently bad law is not an improvement over inconsistent law, because the inconsistent system is right at least sometimes, whereas the other is wrong every time.

  15. "Evidence" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This matters because there's significant evidence that the proliferation of software patents during the 1990s and 2000s had a detrimental impact on innovation

    Okay, I'll bite: evidence about which patents that shouldn't have been granted, but were indeed challenged yet found to be valid? That then retarded which development that we would have had earlier? And we know that already, even though a patent issued from an application from as late as 1998 still has term left?

  16. Software and other potentially abstract ideas by dfghjk · · Score: 2

    Software is not an abstract idea nor has that ever been the argument.

    Furthermore, these are not "proposed new rules" but new guidance and they are already "in effect" as noted later in the last paragraph. This new guidance is a good thing as it helps promote consistency and ends the craziness that erupted with the Alice decision. It is also entirely consistent with recent court rulings, the problem was that patent examiners are typically not lawyers and are not easily persuaded by legal arguments. By incorporating recent decisions in updated guidance, more consistency in granted patents can be achieved and less effort and money is wasted. This is all a good thing, it does not, in any way, make "software patents" easier to obtain.

    In short, everything about this is wrong and the author is ignorant.

    1. Re:Software and other potentially abstract ideas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Software that improves the functioning of a computer.

      I can't think of any examples. Paging algorithms and VM have long since expired.
      Intel has added several vector instructions to the instruction set - but supercomputers already did this. IBM has hardware assisted switching, again old hat. AI is application based so fails to improve the computer. Intels spectre and speculative execution bugs - well they dont exactly improve the functioning of a computer Sorting algorithms - done. Page and leaf databases done. Garbage collection - well that is a concept still in progress, but IBM had keyed memory subpools. A dedicated math processor or GPU does not add to the processor. Hypervisors - done. Old Sperry computers used to load microcode to execute many instruction sets - done. Temperature monitoring to slow down overclocked bit done. power saving done. Nope - I cant think of anything.

      They cant mean any software that runs on a computer, They cant mean the design of the user interface.

    2. Re:Software and other potentially abstract ideas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is this like improving the functioning of a piano or or trumpet where notes are like instructions?

      Then adding wheels on the computer or a battery pack hardly add to functionality

    3. Re:Software and other potentially abstract ideas by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      Software is not an abstract idea nor has that ever been the argument.

      Furthermore, these are not "proposed new rules" but new guidance and they are already "in effect" as noted later in the last paragraph. This new guidance is a good thing as it helps promote consistency and ends the craziness that erupted with the Alice decision. It is also entirely consistent with recent court rulings, the problem was that patent examiners are typically not lawyers and are not easily persuaded by legal arguments. By incorporating recent decisions in updated guidance, more consistency in granted patents can be achieved and less effort and money is wasted. This is all a good thing, it does not, in any way, make "software patents" easier to obtain.

      In short, everything about this is wrong and the author is ignorant.

      All of that. Additionally, this doesn't mean that software patent trolls have been given a free pass - the USPTO simultaneously released new guidance on 35 USC 112, which covers the requirements of definiteness and disclosure, instructing Examiners to apply a very strict filter to software claims, limiting them to the specific algorithms disclosed in the application. If a patent troll tries to go too broad and claim that their patent applies to any way of achieving some effect, they're not only going to be wrong, they're probably going to find their patent is suddenly invalid.

  17. Want a monopoly? by Roodvlees · · Score: 2

    Ask the government to terrorize your competitors.
    Governments claim to oppose monopolies, yet they are the only way a real monopoly can be achieved.
    The software world has been going so well with open source and lack of suffocation by government.
    This is a major blow to improvements in the field.

    --
    Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!
    1. Re:Want a monopoly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Monopolies can and do form even in a complete absence of regulation, or even any government at all. Your second sentence is incorrect.

      Regardless, the problem here is that software patents are invariably on the task to be performed rather than on the method by which the task is performed. This is because in software the methods used fall into one of three categories: Those which are easy to perform in other ways, those which are long established practices, and those which are pure math. A patent on a method which can be easily substituted is worthless, and patents on pure math or established practices are explicitly forbidden by law.

      In the end, software patents are the exact opposite of what a patent was intended to accomplish.

    2. Re:Want a monopoly? by Roodvlees · · Score: 1

      I said "real monopoly". Rockefeller had a ~90% market share but kept prices low because he knew competitors would come in if he didn't.
      So that kind of high market share isn't a bad thing, so long as government stays out of it.
      By the time government came in to "solve the problem", their market share had already dropped https://www.capitalism.org/ant...
      If anything it seems more likely to me that they lobbied government to step in and raise barriers to entry to reduce competition.

      Microsoft was summoned before congress, which demanded Microsoft 'invest' in Washington DC, with offices, lobbyists, etc.
      Which basically means "buy us off, or else", they said no.
      And 6 months later they where sued for anti-trust
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/....
      Microsoft had a high market share with Internet Explorer because they gave their software away for free.
      Before that browsers where being sold for $50.
      Oh the humanity! If only we didn't have the government to protect us against the horror of free products!

      In practice you can always be in violation of anti-trust law:
      - If your prices are low; you must be dumping
      - If your prices are high; you must have a monopoly
      - If your prices are similar; you must be in a cartel
      It really depends on whether the politicians like you, making it the perfect extortion tool.

      "In the end, software patents are the exact opposite of what a patent was intended to accomplish."
      Which applies to everything government does.
      So either people in government are stupid or their intentions are very different from what they say in public.

      --
      Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!
  18. Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apple can start suing Samsung again for something Apple stole years a go from other non US companies

  19. The purpose of patents by sjbe · · Score: 1

    Correct, and furthermore, the entire purpose of patents is to teach others your inventive ideas to further technical advancement.

    That is the purported purpose of patents. It is not in practice the actual purpose of them as things stand today. The de-facto purpose of patents is to protect the profits of the company holding the patent. It's fairly rare that patents today ever describe something that would be unknown otherwise to practitioners in the field. This is not to say patents are pointless/useless but they certainly have been co-opted and are in need of reform.

    The suggestion that patents lack "faIr use" is absurd.

    This is by and large correct. If I copy someone's patented widget in my own garage for my own use, nobody is going to give a shit. Companies only care about patents to the extent they can either profit from them or protect their profits with them.

    1. Re:The purpose of patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would add that one other purpose of patents is as a way to secure investment funding. If all you have is an idea no investor will give you the time of day, but if you have a patent, or several patents, you might get a meeting.

  20. Same purpose and same core problem by sjbe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Copyrights and patents do not overlap and serve different purposes.

    The very fact that software can be both copyrighted and patented shows your argument to be incorrect as a practical matter. Furthermore the core purpose of both is to address the free rider problem. Copyright deals with it for documented creative works and patents are supposed to deal with it for tangible practical inventions but they are solving the same problem in two different domains with different practical requirements.

    The existence of copyright does not mean that patents don't apply to software.

    Obviously but one can make a very reasonable argument that because software is copyrighted, patents should not and need not apply to software. Software at its core is nothing more than a fancy math formula. It's instructions to a machine. I have yet to see any credible argument detailing how society benefits if we should allow patents on mathematical formulas or any other intangible idea like a business process.

    1. Re:Same purpose and same core problem by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      Copyrights and patents do not overlap and serve different purposes.

      The very fact that software can be both copyrighted and patented shows your argument to be incorrect as a practical matter.
      [snip]
      Obviously but one can make a very reasonable argument that because software is copyrighted, patents should not and need not apply to software.

      While they do overlap, GP is right that they serve different purposes. Copyright provides strong protection against copying that specific work - e.g. piracy. It provides little to no protection against competitors who recreate the work on their own, which is where patents come in. This is particularly important in software, as it's rare that competitors want the specific work rather than just anything providing the functionality.

      For example, copyright is great for movies or music, because people want to see Aquaman or buy Taylor Swift's new album, rather than seeing the cheap knockoff movie "Waterking" or buying my new album. But people don't typically care if they're playing Nimblebit's Tiny Tower, as opposed to Zynga's Dream Heights, or Pajitnov's Tetris as opposed to some cheap knockoff, or using GIMP or LibreOffice as opposed to Photoshop or MS Office. Knockoff versions are cheap to make, particularly after you've already done all the design work and testing and they're just reverse engineering and developing new graphic assets, and copyright doesn't help at all.

      There are two ways for software developers to get around this fungibility issue - one is to create proprietary formats or servers and lock customers in, but that's bad for consumers. The other way is patent protection. And given that it has a much shorter time frame than copyright, that's also a good thing for consumers.

      Furthermore the core purpose of both is to address the free rider problem. Copyright deals with it for documented creative works and patents are supposed to deal with it for tangible practical inventions but they are solving the same problem in two different domains with different practical requirements.
      [snip] Software at its core is nothing more than a fancy math formula. It's instructions to a machine. I have yet to see any credible argument detailing how society benefits if we should allow patents on mathematical formulas or any other intangible idea like a business process.

      Yes, except for the limitation "tangible". The patent act applies to new and useful machines, articles of manufacture, and compositions of matter, which are all tangible... as well as processes, which are not.

      And if machines are patentable, why shouldn't a process using those machines be patentable? Or, looked at another way, any software can be implemented in hardware elements (FPGAs, ASICs, etc.). Why should one implementation be patentable while another is not? Merely because one uses hardware? What's the justification for that - it costs money to reproduce those chips, while duplicating software is negligible? And if that's the justification, wouldn't that help serve to just make patents the domain of the wealthy, if only "expensive" things are patentable?

  21. "top to bottom" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, you lie. There are a few republicans in cabinet positions, and a few political appointees in senior positions who weren't openly hateful to half the population, but make no mistake that federal government employees are almost exclusively Yellow Dog Democrats.

  22. correction by 1ucius · · Score: 1

    "proposed new rules that would make it easier to patent software."

    It's worth noting that these are not "new rules." Instead, it's just a memo that attempts to summarize existing law. The memo doesn't change anything re the patentability of software.

  23. Economic harm by sjbe · · Score: 1

    While they do overlap, GP is right that they serve different purposes.

    Of course copyright and patents do have different intents and apply to very different sorts of works. But it does not follow that some works could not be in principle covered by both.

    And if machines are patentable, why shouldn't a process using those machines be patentable?

    To answer that question you have to answer what the harm versus benefit to society is from allowing them or not. It's a reasonable question to ask. Speaking broadly I would argue that there are several reasons to not allow them:
    1) The free rider problem does not cause sufficient economic harm to justify allowing them (this is the biggest reason)
    2) Practical difficulty that these sorts of patents tend to too broad in scope due to difficulty in description.
    3) No compelling value proposition to the public in allowing process patents
    4) If the object being made with the process is patented then there is no need to patent the process

    I would argue that item 1 alone is sufficient. There is just no compelling evidence that economic harm to society will result if we don't allow process or software patents.

    Or, looked at another way, any software can be implemented in hardware elements (FPGAs, ASICs, etc.). Why should one implementation be patentable while another is not?

    Because the hardware implementations are invariably more than just software in a crunchy shell. That said it's a reasonable question. My take on it is that the hardware could be patented if it involves sufficiently novel physics but the code should be adequately covered by copyright. Words on a page versus words on a monitor are still words. The exact medium the come on is (or should be) irrelevant for copyright purposes.

    1. Re:Economic harm by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      Or, looked at another way, any software can be implemented in hardware elements (FPGAs, ASICs, etc.). Why should one implementation be patentable while another is not?

      Because the hardware implementations are invariably more than just software in a crunchy shell. That said it's a reasonable question. My take on it is that the hardware could be patented if it involves sufficiently novel physics but the code should be adequately covered by copyright. Words on a page versus words on a monitor are still words. The exact medium the come on is (or should be) irrelevant for copyright purposes.

      But the hardware implementations aren't running code - the code is instructions to a general purpose processor to configure it in the same manner as those hardware implementations, and the hardware wouldn't have "words on a monitor". So, no, an ASIC chip may do exactly the same thing as your software does, but wouldn't infringe your copyright.

  24. TC Heartland by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't disagree, but you're ignoring the nationwide reach of the patent system and the negative effects of uncertainty. Least of all, this would turn TC Heartland into a monster.

    If you can shoot a man in Reno but not Orlando, that's fine by comparison- that act had to happen in a particular place and everybody knows what the situation is at the time and place where it occurs. You can't shoot a man in Reno from your regular place of business in Orlando, but you sure as hell can produce an infringing piece of software that gets used in Reno.

  25. Oh great! by EnsilZah · · Score: 1

    Hope all those coders who lost their jobs because no one is incentivized to write software anymore get rehired.