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Marco Rubio Introduces Privacy Bill To Create Federal Regulations On Data Collection (fortune.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Fortune: Senator Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) introduced a bill Wednesday aimed at creating federal standards of privacy protection for major internet companies like Facebook, Amazon, and Google. The bill, titled the American Data Dissemination Act, requires the Federal Trade Commission to make suggestions for regulation based on the Privacy Act of 1974. Congress would then have to pass legislation within two years, or the FTC will gain the power to write the rules itself (under current laws, the FTC can only enforce existing rules). While Rubio's bill is intended to reign in the data collection and dissemination of companies like Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Google, and Netflix, it also requires any final legislation to protect small businesses from being stifled by new rules. The caveat comes when one considers states' rights to create their own privacy laws. Under Rubio's legislation, any national regulations would preempt state laws -- even if the state's are more strict. "While we may have disagreements on the best path forward, no one believes a privacy law that only bolsters the largest companies with the resources to comply and stifles our start-up marketplace is the right approach," Rubio wrote in an op-ed for The Hill, announcing his bill.

53 of 103 comments (clear)

  1. Yeah, right by melted · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Like the Bay Area billionaire owners of the Democratic party would allow any of that.

    1. Re:Yeah, right by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Like the Bay Area billionaire owners of the Democratic party would allow any of that.

      Nah. The key line is “Under Rubio's legislation, any national regulations would preempt state laws -- even if the state's are more strict.” That eliminates the need to buy state legislatures; all you have to buy is Congress and get them to draft some watered down laws.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    2. Re:Yeah, right by pushing-robot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Funny you mention California, since the state recently passed a sweeping data privacy law which is scheduled to come into effect at the end of the year.

      This bill seems to be a reaction to that, though it remains to be seen if the bill is meant to extend such state laws nationwide, or gut them.

      And I'm curious as to the constitutionality of 'preempting' state consumer protection laws.

      --
      How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
    3. Re:Yeah, right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They already did. Current CA law has been codified...this is a federal attempt to pre-empty the CA law already in place that is effective in 2020.

    4. Re:Yeah, right by youngone · · Score: 1

      That eliminates the need to buy state legislatures; all you have to buy is Congress and get them to draft some watered down laws.

      That just sounds like good old fashioned capitalist efficiency to me.
      If you don't like it, buy your own senators.

    5. Re:Yeah, right by edi_guy · · Score: 4, Informative

      Keep in mind that the lawmakers (super majority Democrats) in California did not want a privacy bill, or more specifically the money behind the lawmakers didn't want such a bill. However they were forced to act because a ballot initiative was poised to make a stricter law and the polling numbers showed it would pass overwhelmingly

      "The so-called California Consumer Privacy Act of 2018 (AB 375) was introduced late last week by state assemblymember Ed Chau and state senator Robert Hertzberg, in a rush to defeat a stricter privacy-focused ballot initiative that had garnered more than 600,000 signatures from Californians. The group behind that initiative, Californians for Consumer Privacy, said it would withdraw it if the bill passed." - Wired magazine

      And of course the one thing that is bi-partisan are lobbyist dollars, so this privacy bill passed unanimously both Dems and GOP.

      Likewise last year when there was a proposal for a Net Neutrality bill for the state, the Democratic led committee tried to quietly quash it, led by the telecom-funded committee members. Only after the dirty trick was made very, very public did it go through. I expect the State Senator who made the fuss will need to be watching his political back for some years to come.

      As many have said in /. be wary of being a party-first sort of voter.

    6. Re: Yeah, right by astrofurter · · Score: 3, Funny

      Noooooooo! It's all lies and fake news! $MY_PARTY is composed of intelligent, honorable statesmen who always put the interests of the People first. Only $OTHER_PARTY has dirty rotten scoundrels in the legislature, ready to take bribes from every big money corporate lobbyist who comes along. If you don't support $MY_PARTY then you're literally a Nazi!!

    7. Re:Yeah, right by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      Did you expect the Senate to represent the States?

      That ship sailed when the federal government turned the Senate into House 2.0 (17th amendment) and told the States to fuck off.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
  2. Silly tech companies! by GrumpySteen · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Don't they know that mass data collection is for the FBI, CSI, NSA, IRS, DHS, DMV, Customs and Border Protection, Department of State, Department of Defense, National Counterterrorism Center and any local police departments that care to get in on the party?

    1. Re: Silly tech companies! by astrofurter · · Score: 2

      You make it sound like we live in a Soviet style totalitarian police state. But that can't possibly be true. Because everybody knows the terwwawists hate us for our freedom.

    2. Re:Silly tech companies! by Can'tNot · · Score: 4, Informative

      Also ISPs. Remember that Rubio cosponsored the resolution to strip away privacy protections which limited ISPs from spying on you and selling your data. And he did so with the excuse that these protections were "unfair" since the they didn't apply to other unrelated tech companies like Google / Facebook / Apple, etc.

      Now here he is introducing "privacy protections" (never mind that this actually reduces your effective privacy, since it stops states from introducing real protections) which would limit only Google / Facebook / Apple, etc. and would not apply to ISPs.

  3. So to summarize the bullshit "plan" that isn't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Rubio proposes a plan for an agency to eventually come up with a plan, that gives Congress 2 fucking YEARS to think about it, then there's this little gem - "any national regulations would preempt state laws -- even if the state's are more strict." - which is probably the underlying (lying, yep, Republicans) motivation in this farcical bullshit "plan" lol. Typical despicable Rubio with the half-ass plan that isn't really, have some water you sweaty bitch, bullshit lawmaking is thirsty work.

    In the end they're just going to let the industry write the damn thing anyway, great "plan" though derp, like nobody remembers what sellouts they are. "Benevolent horse sculpture? Awesome, wheel it in here!"

    1. Re:So to summarize the bullshit "plan" that isn't by bobbied · · Score: 2

      Awh come on folks.. This is how this game is played, or didn't you understand?

      Anybody in Congress, in either house, can submit bills that say ANYTHING they wish. So you get elected and to "keep" your campaign promises you show up the first week, toss you bill into the growing pile of bills errr Campaign promises that everybody knows will never make it out of committee. They hit the floor, get referred to the appropriate committee and get sent into the committee's inbox to die.

      The only way you get a bill out of committee is to have enough pull by getting enough of your cohorts to agree to pull it up. If leadership doesn't want it, it isn't going anywhere but the circular file next to the desk in about 2 years. Everybody in Congress knows how this works.

      In this case, Rubio is doing this, hoping to get PR support to make something happen, but chances are it's going to die when the next congress is seated in 2021. It's next to meaningless, except for election ad material in about 2 years when he has to start his next campaign.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    2. Re:So to summarize the bullshit "plan" that isn't by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

      every time I hear this story, this "so and so will be in prison, this will happen", I am reminded of how children run fantasies in their head about the bully, or the teacher, or someone else meeting their demise.

  4. Rubi-who? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If it comes from a republican you can bet it isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Best to just burn it and move on. No republican is worth a shit; they're all traitors.

    Vword: incest

    1. Re:Rubi-who? by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

      Oh yes, you're certain the other team isn't worth shit, because your team is (except for the few bad apples).

  5. Seems like an end run around states. by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Under Rubio's legislation, any national regulations would preempt state laws -- even if the state's are more strict.

    I seems like this is really just a way to prevent states from creating strict privacy laws and moor any possible advancements in partisanship.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  6. I don't trust him by rsilvergun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is the same guy that called the bribes he takes buying into his agenda.

    Like TFS suggests this is most likely just to preempt stronger protections from the states, particularly California. We've been relying on CA to protect the rest of the country from this kind of bullshit by passing laws that end up affecting the other states. Don't think the folks in Congress and their donors haven't noticed that.

    The solution is and always will be to stop voting for people like Rubio who take corporate PAC money. I keep on saying this but the Dems have a wing of the party that does just that. I know of no such animal on the GOP side but I'm happy to be proven wrong. In the meantime you can't serve two masters. If your politician accepts corporate PAC money they're not _your_ politician. They belong to the donors who bankrolled their campaign. Full Stop.

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    1. Re: I don't trust him by astrofurter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't trust Rubio one little bit. But I don't trust the Just-Us Democrats one bit more. Whenever so-called Progressives talk about "justice" it's code for fucking over the "deplorable redneck" working class.

      Those Just-Us Democrats who care more about economic issues facing working people, and less about promoting racism and feminazism while disarming the masses, should drop that ugly Just-Us label. Maybe they could call themselves Roosevelt Democrats. Like many many people I would have voted for FDR - so I might be interested in what a Roosevelt Democrat has to say.

  7. Corporate Payola by sdinfoserv · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The key sentence "under Rubio's legislation, any national regulations would preempt state laws -- even if the state's are more strict."
    This proposed legislation is nothing than a veiled attempt to eviscerate State and local privacy laws.

  8. Little Marco the Regulator by PKI+Champion · · Score: 1

    The last thing we need is the government playing data referee. I'm not surprised that Sen. Rubio, aka "Little Marco", is the one to bring it to the floor.

    1. Re:Little Marco the Regulator by Zmobie · · Score: 1

      How do you figure that is the last thing we need? Who the hell else is going to restrict the data collection and usage? The companies' have zero incentive to do it and even if they do, there is nothing that says they can't hold themselves to a higher standard.

    2. Re:Little Marco the Regulator by PKI+Champion · · Score: 1

      It seems to me that the solution nowadays is for the Federal Government to get their hands into everything. Why do we need more?

      I know in some cases it is difficult to avoid the reach of some companies and their ability to collect data on you. However, you DO have a choice. A free market can solve this. There are already solutions in the works to do just that. All you need to do is make a personal choice that it is important to you. Once you make that choice, it's easy to understand why the Federal Government is the last thing we as data referee. The Federal Government is a poor solution to almost every problem, and their solutions quite often steal the liberty (freedom and choice) of the people.

    3. Re: Little Marco the Regulator by astrofurter · · Score: 2

      "you DO have a choice. A free market can solve this"

      Broham, do you work for Big Brother Google or Creepy Facebook? Or have you just been drinking waaaaaaaaaay too much Kool Aid?

      Duh fwee market has obviously, spectacularly FAILED to protect even the tiniest shred of privacy. Instead it delivered a fully privatized, fully automated totalitarian surveillance state.

      Well-structured markets can do a pretty spiffy job of allocating capital and rationing goods. However markets do a super shittastic job of protecting ordinary people from predatory capitalists.

    4. Re: Little Marco the Regulator by PKI+Champion · · Score: 1

      Government would do no better. Government does not innovate. Free markets do. You just defined the problem space nicely: "fully privatized, fully automated totalitarian surveillance state". Innovation brings solutions. You have ways to escape this today if you want to.

      You don't need to use "free" e-mail services. You don't have to conduct your home networking in an exposed fashion. You don't need to use social media. You don't need to buy from Amazon. You don't need to use discount cards. You don't need to use credit cards. If you said "yes, I do" to any of these, that is a choice you have made to provide your data. You're exchanging convenient and enjoyment for the right to collect data on your use.

      If you'd like to start protecting your data, you can investigate VPN services and their related e-mail solutions. There are open source mobile phones in the works. You can fully build and use information systems that are free of the yoke of big tech like Apple and Microsoft by using and supporting open source.

    5. Re:Little Marco the Regulator by Zmobie · · Score: 1

      Dude, I am a software engineer and know more about the solutions and tracking than 99% of the population most likely. You can avoid SOME things, but without living like a a mountain man and withdrawing from society, no you cannot entirely avoid it. Left unchecked, there will be at least one unscrupulous company that doesn't care and collects data through means you almost can't avoid without sacrificing or acting in very difficult ways. The free market doesn't fix all problems. Regulation and enforcement are required in some circumstance even though your clear libertarian mindset wants to have a fever dream that its useless. I don't mean to be insulting, but this concept of a free market being the go to solution for everything is just nuttier than squirrel shit.

    6. Re: Little Marco the Regulator by Zmobie · · Score: 1

      You don't need to use almost anything, but to live a marginally normal life within the society we have created some things are unavoidable. How are you planning to buy a house or car without any kind of credit or credit history? Sure you can save up cash, but without working ungodly hours and doing nothing else (or being born rich, which is outside of your control) by the time you save that money the house will have probably gone up in value or a million other factors make it difficult to buy. If even a quarter of the population took these steps you are suggesting society would go to shit, and it isn't just because these services fail, its because a quarter of society would be nutbag hermits.

      And are you kidding me with the open source? You going to review every line of that code for privacy issues and security problems too? We've had multiple instances in the past few years of severe security issues and even some privacy concerns with the open source software. There are also rough time commitments to using that and horrible compatibility problems. Hey I have an idea, lets also go back to when everyone farmed their own food and we didn't use this thing called a centralized production model. You are basically advocating for the world to go backwards rather than apply some basic government regulations and enforcement to these companies to fix the existing problems and allow society to progress.

      Hell, you posting on Slashdot is a bad idea for your privacy in a lot of ways and yet here you are. Through digital fingerprinting I guarantee you that someone can determine your real identity right now and abuse that information. It requires so much research and strategizing to keep your information safe on your own that you would have barely enough time for anything else. There are absolutely common sense things that can be done by people, but you are seriously mistaken if you think a free market can come close to solving this problem. Before that is even possible, the general education of the population would have to increase 100x at least.

    7. Re: Little Marco the Regulator by PKI+Champion · · Score: 1

      I still do or have formerly used every one of those things that I said "you don't need", and I am most certain there are nice portfolios with information gathered from those activities; then some. Even perhaps from slashdot. lol There are countless other avenues for data to flow into such portfolios. Perhaps you got my point, but confused me with someone who cares deeply about privacy. The book about me has probably been sold for quite a while. Not a bestseller.

      What I care about on this topic is who makes the rules. Where does the power reside? Whenever you cede control of something to a government, that control may be bartered, abused, expanded, manipulated, and even wielded. If you don't like what's happening today with the "fully privatized, fully automated totalitarian surveillance state", just wait until it is converted into the "fully automated totalitarian government with 24/7/365 surveillance". China is building that today. I think it's pretty far along now. I visited the Soviet Union in the 80's, so I was provided with some perspective that some folks may not have.

      I'll leave this with one thought. Be careful of the government you ask for, because it might not turn out to be what you expect. Thanks for the engaging conversation. Cheers!

    8. Re:Little Marco the Regulator by PKI+Champion · · Score: 1

      My wife is the libertarian. I'll just say that I have a healthy respect for the power of government, and I want that power to be clearly defined and limited. I've seen firsthand what a totalitarian government looks like and how one governs.

      Bringing us full circle. I don't want nor trust Marco Rubio as the one defining the limits of that power as it relates to regulating data collection. I'm not sure it's possible for me to trust anyone in that role at the moment. The U.S. federal government is dysfunctional. Politicians are career. They profit from their service. And, they'd trade our liberty away if it would get them one more term in office.

      Where does that leave us? I don't have the answer, but I can speculate that Marco Rubio likely doesn't either!

    9. Re: Little Marco the Regulator by Zmobie · · Score: 1

      I don't advocate for the government to have that control at all. I advocate for NO ONE to have that control whatsoever. The problem is the only way to do it is to pass regulations against it and have at least some good people enforce it. The government is abusing that data collection right now even if the data is held by the private sector. You don't think all the secretive courts that can compel them to release information or the illegal phone searches on basic traffic stops are not exactly that? If left unchecked both sides will abuse it, but if they attempt to regulate it at least we stand a fighting chance of slowing it down or maybe stopping it with the right people.

  9. Break up the cartel by WCMI92 · · Score: 1

    Google, Facebook, Apple, Twitter. Sorry Microsoft you are the past evil.

    --
    Corporatism != Free Market
  10. Wasted opportunity by Nidi62 · · Score: 4, Funny

    He should have named it the American Data Security Act, otherwise known as the ADS Act.

    --
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
  11. Kinda necessary. 50 different conflicting rules by raymorris · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Unless you're going to have separate companies for each state, you kinda need a uniform set of rules for the country. That's what the EU has done with GDPR. Even with the uniform Privacy Directive providing uniform principles to be applied in each country, they found that wasn't sufficient; a uniform rule was needed across Europe.

    There is plenty to debate about what the rules should *be*. There's no doubt that having 50 different conflicting sets of rules would be a mess. One state would require records be preserved for inspection by authorities, while another would require that data be deleted after it's no longer actively used, and it would be impossible to comply with both.

    1. Re:Kinda necessary. 50 different conflicting rules by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      Unless you're going to have separate companies for each state, you kinda need a uniform set of rules for the country. That's what the EU has done with GDPR. Even with the uniform Privacy Directive providing uniform principles to be applied in each country, they found that wasn't sufficient; a uniform rule was needed across Europe.

      There is plenty to debate about what the rules should *be*. There's no doubt that having 50 different conflicting sets of rules would be a mess. One state would require records be preserved for inspection by authorities, while another would require that data be deleted after it's no longer actively used, and it would be impossible to comply with both.

      While I agee that uniorm rules are better than a patchwork; the real goal of federal lawmaking is to ensure the minimum possible standards while providing the greates possible opportunuity to influence the rules in a company's favor. Of course, people are in f avor of it when it does something they want and agaisnt it if it prevents them from doing something they want to do.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    2. Re:Kinda necessary. 50 different conflicting rules by Altus · · Score: 1

      Yeah that's why Europe and the US have entirely different companies

      --

      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

  12. Regulatory Capture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Nice! One nice, clean, and simple point of non-legislative bureaucracy that lobbyists can manipulate. So much better than actual laws with real protections.

  13. Re: Kinda necessary. 50 different conflicting rule by edris90 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That's good that encourages the large entities to be broken up for the sake of state compliance.. this helps to prevent overgrowth. And Encourage turnover,

  14. Love the 10th, and interstate commerce exists by raymorris · · Score: 2

    Btw I've posted plenty about how we need to pay more attention to the 10th amendment and the enumerated powers. I'm all about the 10th amendment - and web sites are so clearly interstate commerce. Interstate commerce is one of the enumerated powers, and for good reason.

    #fuckthewheatcases

  15. Re: Kinda necessary. 50 different conflicting rule by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    That's good that encourages the large entities to be broken up for the sake of state compliance.. this helps to prevent overgrowth. And Encourage turnover,

    Also, if only there was a device connected to other devices all over the country and well the world that could be used to automate complex tasks with complex rules.

    In short, I'm not remotely buying the "It's too hard to do argument."

    Also as someone else pointed out, it is very wrong having a non elected agency head and similar creating effectively laws. Either congress does their job correctly or leave it as it is. In fact just his lame ass suggestion pretty much leads me to conclude that he is too inept to do his damn job and should retire.

  16. Re: Trump's shutdown, McConnell's cowardice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Thank you for being outraged! Fight among yourselves, American dogs! Please address all replies to:

    Comrade Major Lifeng Wang
    Information Operation Directorate
    Ministry of State Security
    14 East Chang'an Street
    Dongcheng Qu
    Beijing
    People's Republic of China

  17. who wrote this bill ? by swell · · Score: 1

    Was it Facebook? Google? All of them?
    And when they gave it to the senator, how much did they add to his re-election fund?

    Experience suggests that any legislation of industry that sounds good for the people is probably very cleverly written (as this is) to give that impression, but it is written by industry with their profits in mind. Our elected officials represent them, not us.

    --
    ...omphaloskepsis often...
  18. Re: Kinda necessary. 50 different conflicting rule by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It would make it difficult for you to buy services from other states, bugger up interstate commerce. You would find companies saying "sorry, we don't ship to / provide services to your state".

    --
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  19. so what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    so what if business is stifled, PRIVACY first. assholes.

  20. Little Marco by monkeyxpress · · Score: 1

    Well that may be true and all, but first let’s dispel with this fiction that Barack Obama doesn’t know what he’s doing. He knows exactly what he’s doing. He’s trying to change this country. He wants America to become like the rest of the world...

  21. USA and EU actually worked out okay by raymorris · · Score: 1

    > They should, by your assertion, be why we need a world government that makes laws that override the laws of "sovereign states".

    It's interesting that you used the correct term, states.
    It actually worked pretty well to have a federation of states agree to give certain listed powers to a federation government. We call it the federa(tion) government the federa(l) government.

    Where things tend to go sideways is when the states allow the federal government to purport to exercise powers it does not have under the Constitution. The enumerated powers are there for a reason.

  22. Fair Game by JimSadler · · Score: 1

    To me anything that can be seen or heard from a public space is fare game. If I make notes on whose car is parked at the local brothel, for my own purposes, it is fair and reasonable that I do so. Right now we have people who feel that everything they do or say in public is somehow private information and we must avoid falling into this trap. For example stealing money from someone's account must always be a crime the idea of recording their charge card data when they order pizza over the phone should be legal. When you have a means of proving where a person was at a certain time it can be of great use in stopping crimes or even breaking up marriages of cheating spouses. By the way quite a few card numbers are stolen by cell phones ability to record conversation within its hearing range.

  23. Have you read their platform? by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    I'm not sure how you'd get "fucking over rednecks" out of it. It boils down to :

    1. Medicare for All.
    2. Tuition Free College.
    3. The "Green New Deal" (e.g. a federal jobs guarantee building renewable energy installations)
    4. Infrastructure spending.
    5. Higher taxes for top earners, think $500k+

    #1 is a big issue for "rednecks", e.g. rural voters. Their hospitals are closing left and right.

    #3 would help. Coal mining's going away like it or not and they need jobs.

    #4 would be good too since their water pipes are going to hell and part of infrastructure is clean water.

    #5 probably doesn't impact them, I don't know a lot of "rednecks" making $500k/yr. I know some that _own_ $500k in land (farmers) but that's not their income.

    That leaves #2, and it's 2019. They want college just like everybody else. Ask any farmer who isn't just playing around and farming has long since gone high tech and scientific.

    As for the other side (the GOP and the corporatists) well, these are the guys closing your hospitals because they're not profitable enough and trying to bring back pre-existing conditions. 'nogh said.

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    1. Re:Have you read their platform? by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

      Nationalized healthcare is a good idea, but I don't think other countries realize how much their costs will increase: the US is a cash cow for this, and the money has to come from somewhere. If I was British or Canadian, I'd be sweating about the prospect.
      Tuition free college would either require much fewer people going to college, a rollout of good 'ol trade schools, or both- not that I'm against the idea.
      Green new deal would become an enormous money sink.
      Infrastructure spending is needed quite badly.
      Higher taxes on top earners would work, but only if you simplify the system. Otherwise, it will be gamed. I'd suggest a sliding scale "flat" tax with absolutely no deductions.

  24. Country != nation != state by raymorris · · Score: 1

    You might want to learn a bit of English. Nation, country, and state all mean different things.

    In 1785, Virginia and 13 other states were sovereign states which signed a NATO-like common defense agreement, with these words:

    "Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Confederation expressly delegated."

    The states delegated to the Congress of the Confederation the ability to make war with Britain, and not much else:

    "The said States hereby severally enter into a firm league of friendship with each other, for their common defense"

    You know why each state has two senators, not each million people? Why California has electoral votes, and Texas does, while neither you nor I do? Because it's a federation of states.

  25. It actually saves us $5 trillion by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    See here. US' healthcare system is crazy bad. It's rife with inefficiencies. Google the phrase "Wallet Biopsy" sometime too while you're at it.

    Other countries send everyone to college just fine. If anything we could use a few people hitting the economy later.

    The Green New Deal is _supposed_ to be a money sink. The New Deal was a jobs program. The fact that we get clean air and maybe less climate change is just a cherry on the cake.

    The tax system can't be simplified. As soon as you try there are loop holes, so you write laws to close the loop holes and it gets complicated fast. Making the ruling class pay for the civilization they enjoy is just a complicated process, there's no getting around it. Flat taxes just become regressive. They're a dodge by the rich to avoid paying. Don't fall for it.

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  26. Re: Kinda necessary. 50 different conflicting rul by edris90 · · Score: 1

    Which would create demand for local business. Small Local business tends to be symbiotic with its community it serves. Necessity is the mother of invention.

  27. Re: Kinda necessary. 50 different conflicting rul by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

    Believe me, as someone who lives with that reality, it's not something you want.

    --
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    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  28. Re: Kinda necessary. 50 different conflicting rul by edris90 · · Score: 1

    That is something I want. It's been my experience that the majority of the advantages Society provides exclude me in my peersfor partaking in them. Which from that experience makes them useless,. If you have insurance you still have to make it past all the layers of bureaucracy Define lame got to the specialist so the real diagnostic in treatment processes can begin. You have to learn the terms necessary to legally leaverage your doctor into ordering procedures,. Most Technologies are prohibitively expensive so you still have to create your own Solutions. And in the end you still have to operate in between the lines when it comes to the rules of society just to survive and maintain your primary responsibility to keep your family sustained. These benefits are simply not available. While the costs continue to be applied. So the large demographic live like I do get screwed. So the less we can contribute to these societal benefits that we don't receive, the better future we have the potential to realize. At This level we have to do everything ourselves anyway. More local business and less getting bled out of our communities represents more opportunity in life For the Working Poor.