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FBI Arrests Trump Associate Roger Stone Over His Communications With WikiLeaks (nytimes.com)
Roger J. Stone Jr., a longtime informal adviser to President Trump, was charged as part of the special counsel investigation over his communications with WikiLeaks, the organization behind the release of thousands of stolen Democratic emails during the 2016 campaign, in an indictment unsealed Friday.
From a report: Mr. Stone was charged with seven counts, including obstruction of an official proceeding, making false statements and witness tampering, according to the special counsel's office. F.B.I. agents arrested Mr. Stone before dawn on Friday at his home in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., and he was expected to appear in a federal courthouse there later in the morning. F.B.I. agents were also seen carting hard drives and other evidence from Mr. Stone's apartment in Harlem.
The indictment is the first in months by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, who is investigating Russia's interference in the 2016 election and possible coordination with Trump campaign associates. Citing details in emails and other forms of communications, the indictment suggests Mr. Trump's campaign knew about additional stolen emails before they were released and asked Mr. Stone to find out about them. Moments ago, Stone was released on a $250,000 bond.
The indictment is the first in months by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, who is investigating Russia's interference in the 2016 election and possible coordination with Trump campaign associates. Citing details in emails and other forms of communications, the indictment suggests Mr. Trump's campaign knew about additional stolen emails before they were released and asked Mr. Stone to find out about them. Moments ago, Stone was released on a $250,000 bond.
Looks like they're finding a lot of witches.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
They really have Trump where they want him now...
Trump is a lucky guy, he's had all these criminals around him and didn't even know it! It's fortunate that the authorities have found them out before any of these scoundrels had a chance to take advantage of him.
Fuck that guy. He's a real piece of work.
- In Soviet Korea, only old people loose all their bases to Natalie Portman's petrified hot grits overlords.
Why so many lies to the FBI if there was nothing to hide?
Except there is evidence right there in the indictment to support the charges. If you bothered to read it that is.
Tangential to wikileaks, I imagine. Also because events taking place at the highest level of US politics have such wide-ranging impacts that they are of importance to every field. Even when everyone is sick of hearing about them, they still matter.
The indictment is 24 pages long. I'm going through it, but this is part of the introduction (which goes on for 20 pages until the first count). In the indictment, they use the term "Organization 1", which I have replaced with "WikiLeaks".
1. By in or around May 2016, the Democratic National Committee ("DNC") and the
Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee ("DCCC") became aware that their computer
systems had been compromised by unauthorized intrusions and hired a security company
("Company 1") to identify the extent of the intrusions.
2. On or about June 14, 2016, the DNC—through Company 1—publicly announced that it
had been hacked by Russian government actors.
3. From in or around July 2016 through in or around November 2016, an organization
("WikiLeaks"), which had previously posted documents stolen by others from U.S. persons,
entities, and the U.S. government, released tens of thousands of documents stolen from the DNC
and the personal email account of the chairman of the U.S. presidential campaign of Hillary
Clinton ("Clinton Campaign").
a. On or about July 22, 2016, WikiLeaks released documents stolen from the
DNC.
b. Between on or about October 7, 2016 and on or about November 7, 2016,
WikiLeaks released approximately 33 tranches of documents that had been
stolen from the personal email account of the Clinton Campaign chairman, totaling
over 50,000 stolen documents.
4. ROGER JASON STONE, JR. was a political consultant who worked for decades in U.S.
politics and on U.S. political campaigns. STONE was an official on the U.S. presidential campaign
of Donald J. Trump ("Trump Campaign") until in or around August 2015, and maintained regular
contact with and publicly supported the Trump Campaign through the 2016 election.
5. During the summer of 2016, STONE spoke to senior Trump Campaign officials about
WikiLeaks and information it might have had that would be damaging to the Clinton
Campaign. STONE was contacted by senior Trump Campaign officials to inquire about future
releases by WikiLeaks.
6. By in or around early August 2016, STONE was claiming both publicly and privately to
have communicated with WikiLeaks. By in or around mid-August 2016, WikiLeaks made
a public statement denying direct communication with STONE. Thereafter, STONE said that his
communication with WikiLeaks had occurred through a person STONE described as a "mutual
friend," "go-between," and "intermediary." STONE also continued to communicate with members
of the Trump Campaign about WikiLeaks and its intended future releases.
I'll stop there. So, Russians attack the DNC. WikiLeaks releases stolen DNC documents, presumably obtained from the attackers, Russians. During the time period when WikiLeaks was releasing the DNC documents obtained from the Russians, Stone was talking to Trump's campaign about the leaks, and the Trump campaign contacted Stone and directed him to ask WikiLeaks about future releases. Stone then claimed publicly that he had been communicating with WikiLeaks, before then denying that he had done so. And he continued to communicate with the Trump campaign about what WikiLeaks intended to release in the future.
So, Russians steal DNC documents, give them to WikiLeaks, and Stone acts as an intermediary between the Trump campaign and WikiLeaks, holder of the documents stolen by Russia, about when those documents are going to be released. Stone was specifically asked by the campaign to communicate with WikiLeaks about the release of documents stolen by Russians. This is where the claims of collusion are starting to coagulate.
Then, since everyone did everything just fine, and there was No Collusion(tm), this happened:
7. After the 2016 U.S. presidential election, the U.S. House of Representatives Permanent
Select Committee on Intellig
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
There's a weird Nixon reference that I didn't understand. I don't know if he's quoting or just name-dropping him:
a. On or about November 19, 2017, in a text message to STONE, Person 2 said that
his lawyer wanted to see him (Person 2). STONE responded, "‘Stonewall it. Plead
the fifth. Anything to save the plan' . . . Richard Nixon." On or about November
20, 2017, Person 2 informed HPSCI that he declined HPSCI's request for a
voluntary interview.
It looks like a quote. Nixon probably isn't the greatest person to quote when you're being investigated.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
And why he would be indicted with stuff instead of other things is because it's a simple charge to make stick - did he lie under oath? Bigly. Did he intimidate a witness / suborn perjury? Yup.
He's going to go jail and the only question is for how long. That depends on his cooperation with the investigation or not.
Well, the DOJ did find Clinton and Kavanaugh innocent of wrong doing.
Clinton: 20+ years of nonstop partisan driven investigations originating from congress and an FBI field office that is widely known for hating Hillary. From the present House minority leader: "We are doing a great job driving her poll numbers down."
Kavanaugh: 4 days including the weekend to make a determination and here is a long list of things you cannot look into.
Yep. The investigations into these two individuals was exactly the same.
Go and read the indictment and stop pretending this was some minor slip-up.
Obstruction of Proceeding, 5 counts of false statements, and Witness Tampering. And, what were his false statements about? Being the go-between for the Trump campaign and WikiLeaks regarding documents that were stolen from the DNC by Russians. Those 7 counts against Stone are enough to put the old man away for the rest of his life, so with that mind we'll see what he has to say about Trump. Maybe he'll admit which senior campaign officials directed him to contact WikiLeaks about the documents stolen by the Russians.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
That depends on his cooperation with the investigation or not.
From what I heard, the prosecution is saying there should be no credit for cooperation.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
https://www.vox.com/policy-and...
Another reason to NEVER talk to the FBI without a lawyer.
George Papadopoulos Pled guilty to making false statements to the FBI
Paul Manafort - indicted on a total of 25 different counts related mainly to his past work for Ukrainian politicians and his finances.
Rick Gates - pled guilty to just one false statements charge and one conspiracy charge.
Michael Flynn - pled guilty to making false statements to the FBI.
Richard Pinedo: pled guilty to an identity theft charge in connection with the Russian indictments
Alex van der Zwaan: pled guilty to making false statements to the FBI
Michael Cohen: pled guilty to 8 counts — tax and bank charges, related to his finances and taxi business, and campaign finance violations
Roger Stone: accused Stone of lying to the House Intelligence Committee
Hold on. How the fuck does that dumb analogy have anything to do with the 24-page indictment against Stone. Have you read it?
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
The same James Comey, former registered Republican, who chose to gratuitously kneecap Hillary's campaign at the last minute, is the one who could not justify bringing charges against Hillary. And you think she benefitted from some kind of privilege in that matter?
Also CNN had staked out Stone's house for days beforehand because they strongly suspected Roger Stone would be arrested. That's good ol' fashioned American hard work, don't Republicans normally pretend to admire that sort of thing?
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
They are stupid lies
You mean that lying to Congress is stupid? Yes, we agree.
If you're suggesting that the things that they're lying about are inconsequential, keep in mind that these people thought the lesser of evils was a federal crime of lying to Congress.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Again, have you read the actual indictment? They list the text messages. They show the actual lies. They show him threatening potential witnesses. Hell, they show him threatening the pets of potential witnesses.
He doesn't have to admit anything, it's already there. And if you've got a liar, are you really going to put a lot of stock into whether or not they admit to it? You've got evidence that he did specific things, in writing. Then you ask him, and he says no, I never did those specific things. That's a lie. So, start applauding.
The thing to not lose sight of is that Stone is not the target, Trump is. This isn't victory, it's just the next domino.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
There are other things besides collusion.
There's the basic mistake of attacking every critic including the FBI, the failing NYT, Wapo, every goddam Trump aid, and so on.
Remember that Trump never bothered to replace Obama's staff at the mid-lower levels of government, especially the FBI.
Those people are pranking Trump all over hell's half an acre with leaks and the intent to bolster the indictment count.
Trump has fired all the competent advisers in his hive and is left with celebrities like himself who know nothing about politics.
Pelosi knows where all the dead bodies are. She's got those left-over Obama loyalists aiding her.
It don't get any better than that. Hell, Trunp's core is crumbling and imploding down to a few batshit crazy, rabid certified nut wings.
You know: Like Giuliani.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
The freaky detail on this is that Stone has a richard nixon tattoo (not kidding).
If they get the definitive proof that Trump colluded with Russia then Nixon is going to look a saint in comparison. If Nixon were alive today he'd be excited that he could be on the verge of losing the title of the most vilified President.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
The evidence of the text and emails he made are right there in the indictment. The evidence will be easy for any jury or judge to understand. He's toast. It's kind of pathetic to rationalise this away and yet...
There will be some people who will never admit the world is not flat, that we landed on the moon, that O'Blama is an American Citizen, or that there is any evidence of Russian interference, collusion, or criminal acts. They still think PizzaGate is real.
I read the document. Stone isn't in a real good place, no matter what the kooks think.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Former President Park of South Korea tried that defense a few years ago, and she didn't get the funny mod points. She got a long prison sentence.
Right now I think there are two big differences here: (1) She's young enough that she may get out of prison someday. (2) The South Korean government is much more honest than America under #PresidentTweety.
I'm not sure how similar Roger Stone is to Choi Tae-min, but it was the close advisor's arrest that soon led to the arrest of Park. I want to refer to her as Inmate #x, but I can't find the number.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
No, he didn't. Feel free to post all of the numerous public statements made by Mueller if you disagree.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Actually I think there is a strong relationship between journalism and technology in general. Also some sort of relationship between Wikileaks and Slashdot in particular.
It is clear that journalism is in trouble these years. I think most of the problems are related to bad economic models. For example, Slashdot can't be improved because the economic model is so broken. Also, much of Wikileaks destructive behavior was driven by the need to generate the kind of publicity that would produce funding.
Don't want to spend too much time on this, but I'll just summarize some of my ontology of economic models:
(1) Public service. Broken
(2) Advertising. Broken.
(3) Propaganda. Not only broken, but trying to break society.
(4) Winner take all. Most broken after the winner is decided.
(5) Big-donor charity. Broken by bad decisions.
(6) Small-donor charity. Can't find a good one.
(7) Solution driven. Amusing theory, that.
Time's up, so I bid you ADSAuPR, atAJG.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
"I don't give a shit what happens. I want you all to stonewall it, let them plead the Fifth Amendment, cover up or anything else, if it'll save it, save this plan. That's the whole point. We're going to protect our people if we can." -- Nixon, Statement to Haldeman, in tapes ordered released for the trial of Haldeman, Ehrlichman and Mitchell
https://www.nytimes.com/intera...
https://www.cheatsheet.com/cul...
Spoiler: for the worst lies, Obama raked in 2 per year, Trump was on course for 124 per year (but that only counted his first 10 months in office - it's higher now).
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
I don't know what all the capitalization is about.
The indictment clearly and obviously spells out Stone's lies about his activities during and after the campaign, including the period in the summer of 2016 when WikiLeaks was releasing the documents that Russians had stolen from the DNC. Stone was one of people between the campaign and WikiLeaks trying to... what's the word... coordinate? cooperate? something, about which documents that were stolen by the Russians they were going to release and when.
If you want to question the activities that Stone lied about, consider the fact that Stone decided that the lesser evil was lying to Congress and the FBI about what he had been up to.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Is there anything else shocking or illegal in these events? There doesn't seem to be.
You forgot about the counts of Obstructing a Proceeding and Witness Tampering.
Anyway, when you're trying to defend Stone, just keep in mind that he decided that the lesser evil was lying to Congress and the FBI about what he had been up to.
He's such a great guy that he threatened someone's dog.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Thought you were making that up, but several journalists are reporting Stone threatened to steal a witnesses therapy dog, and told a witness "Prepare to die"... Trump is surrounded by Don Corleone wanna-bes!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
but when are they going to arrest any Democrat for blatantly lying before Congress about running arms to al-Qaeda and Mexican drug lords
When they actually do that. Turns out Inforwars isn't the best source of reality.
(Fast and Furious, btw, was a program started under W's administration. It had strict rules about the guns and following them....until one DEA agent broke all the rules about distributing guns, got caught, and started screaming to certain media outlets to cover his own ass. Difficult to indict a "whistle-blower" and Holder didn't want to try.)
giving $billions to Iran
That would be the Reagan administration.
having the GCHQ spy on the opposing party's candidates
[Citation Required]. No need have GCHQ do it when there's already a FISA warrant.
or any of a half dozen other scandals that would have gotten anyone other than America's First Black President impeached
Yeah, like Pizzagate, right? How'd you guys figure out to cover over the fact that the building doesn't have a basement?
It turns out, you don't have to actually tell the truth to put a story into the media. Lots of people will believe you are telling the truth when you're lying about, say, birth certificates. And many of a certain set of people will gladly eat up the tabloid reporting, so the tabloids keep doing it.
I'll just stick to the facts, thanks. Facts like the DNC announced that Russians were responsible for attacking them (unless you're trying to assert that the DNC was never hacked in the first place, in which case good luck explaining away all of that evidence), facts like the numerous Russians who have been indicted or sanctioned by the US, facts like Ms. Butina being charged here after attempting to infiltrate various conservative groups (with mountains of evidence), etc.
Keep your conspiracy theories to yourself, you don't speak for me.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Not really.
Yes, really. And your next paragraph says exactly what you deny.
You can of course, decline to talk to law enforcement. But once you agree to talk to them, you are required to tell the truth, because lying to them can be considered obstruction of justice.
Which is another way of saying "That is exactly the reason you shouldn't talk to cops, because even if you are completely innocent they can convict you based on a slip-up in the interview."
If I do that, then my lie about you being on the beach with me has obstructed justice - That's a crime. That isn't a "slip-up in the interview"
So to prove that they won't charge you with lying based on a slip-up you use an example of where you deliberately lied to them? Sorry. They will charge you with lying if you slip-up in an interview. That's because they won't ask you just once if you tell them he was with you "on the beach at the time". They'll ask you fifteen times, in thirteen different ways. "On a beach." Which beach? Where on the beach? What did you take to the beach? How did you get to the beach? "at the time." What time did you get there? What time did you leave? What time did you meet with him? What time did you separate? Were you with him the entire time? Yes? Did he ever go out of your sight? No? Oh, wait, he went to the bathroom once, I forgot. So he was out of your sight? You lied!
If you really were "on the beach at the time" with him, UNLESS you were planning on creating an alibi, you'll not remember every detail they ask you about. You'll forget stuff. You'll not bother remembering stuff that was completely unimportant until you need to tell the cops exactly what happened. For example, I just met with a couple of people in another part of the building. I couldn't tell you exactly what time I met with them, or when I left, or even a complete recreation of what we talked about. As I tell the story I will remember things, and if anything I remember differs from what I've already said, I've lied to the cops.
If you think you'd be exempt from that "standard of evidence" you're hopelessly naive.
Frankly, until the same standards of justice are applied equally, nobody gives a fuck about these indictments.
You don't speak for anyone else.
Why should we care if Roger Stone lies?
Because doing it was a crime. Try to keep up. The indictment is only 24 pages.
Oh, that's right, that will never happen, because they are not under investigation
2 years of Republican controlled White House and Congress, and no Democrats under investigation. It must be because Mitch McConnell and Trump and his buds are willing to let the Democrats break the law and get away with it. Yeah, that's the most obvious answer. Because they're such great friends.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
I personally love the bipartisan approach of locking up both the Clintons and the Trumps.
No tears would be shed on my end!
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
The NY Times article isn't, this Slashdot one indeed is fake news.
"FBI Arrests Trump Associate Roger Stone Over His Communications With WikiLeaks"
Actual counts :
COUNT ONE (Obstruction of Proceeding)
COUNTS TWO THROUGH SIX (False Statements)
COUNT SEVEN (Witness Tampering)
He was arrested because he was too stupid to simply keep his mouth shut, not over his communications with Wikileaks.
He was arrested for lying to investigators about his communications to members of Trumps campaign. The topic of the communications that he lied about, was wikileaks.
So if you absolutely want to split hairs:
"FBI Arrests Trump Associate Roger Stone Over His Communications With WikiLeaks" is not quite accurate
"FBI Arrests Trump Associate Roger Stone Over His Communications ABOUT WikiLeaks" would fix the semantics.
NONE of the witnesses provided ANY corroboration of the event whatsoever.
You really aren't very hard to refute. You should probably pick up the practice of reading yourself before you admonish others to do so.
Here is a list that includes a list of witness the FBI did NOT contact either because they did not have the time or they were instructed not to. Lawyers for both Ramirez and Ford provided lists of corroborating witnesses which were never contacted.
It was clear from the very start that the only purpose of the FBI "investigation" was not to vet the SCOTUS candidate, but instead to provide a fig leaf that would be eagerly accepted by persons such as yourself.
Well, you're making certain assumptions based on only what Mueller has revealed so far.
I'm making assumption by only going with the evidence to date. That's an interesting interpretation of "assumptions". :-)
It sounds like you're wondering how many men need to be in the middle before it's no longer considered collusion or cooperation
Nope, zero to many in the middle is irrelevant. All that matters is active cooperation between the campaign and the Russian government, a Russian oligarch, etc. Absent such cooperation the fact that the wikileaks info originally game from Russian hackers is effectively trivia. Russia, China, North Korea, or US teenager in Mom's basement (Sarah Palin's gmail publication?) makes no difference when the cooperation ends with wikileaks.
No, it is not. Mueller has, very obviously, and very deliberately, not released any information that he has but that he does not need to release yet. And, exactly like during every other release, when everyone is quick to jump on the fact that this is not proof of Trump colluding with Russia, I will, once again remind people that we have not seen the iceberg yet.
Patience, my young padawan. Mueller has prosecuted organized crime before. This is not his first rodeo. You start at the bottom rung of the ladder and work your way up.
No, he has not yet charged Individual 1 with any crime. That does not mean that he does not have evidence of crimes done by Individual 1, and it does not mean that he will never charge Individual 1.
This is stuff that will get Roger Stone convicted. Poor guy, what a shame.
I really hope that's sarcasm.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
They invested too much time and face into this. Even if they had no evidence about the communications at all, any lie to investigators they thought they could prove would have led to his arrest at this point. The reason for his arrest was because they thought they could prove those counts.
Of course they started the investigation because they were hoping they could prove something like commissioning a crime or conspiring to commit a crime. If that were one of the counts it would actually be over the communications, they still apparently can't make any of that stick. Maybe some plea deal testimony can save this clusterfuck for them.
Context is everything, especially for humor--but you may note I that I rarely earn any "funny" points.
You, as the 4-digit UID, suggested that the AC's UID was visible, and I attempted to make a joke on that theme. I don't think I even looked at the AC comment you were commenting on (since I ignore ACs), but now I see that there was an earlier reference to a 5-digit UID.
However these days I'm actually kind of suspicious of small UIDs... Overly juicy targets, and possibly orphaned years ago.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.