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Second China-Bound Apple Car Worker Charged With Data Theft (bloomberg.com)

schwit1 shares a report from Bloomberg: An Apple hardware engineer was charged by the U.S. with stealing the iPhone maker's driverless car secrets for a China-based company, the second such case since July amid an unprecedented crackdown by the Trump administration on Chinese corporate espionage. Jizhong Chen was seen by a fellow Apple employee taking photographs Jan. 11 with a wide-angle lens inside a secure work space that houses the company's autonomous car project, about six months after he signed a strict confidentiality oath when he was hired, according to a criminal complaint in federal court in San Jose, California. Prosecutors said Chen admitted to taking the photos and backing up some 2,000 files to his personal hard drive, including manuals and schematics for the project, but didn't tell Apple he had applied for a job with a China-based autonomous vehicle company.

75 comments

  1. An Apple A Day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Keeps the uh, teacher doctor away?

    1. Re: An Apple A Day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What does this story have to do with Trump? An Apple employee noticed the corporate espionage. There are already employee agreements and laws on the books like Economic Espionage Act of 1996. The rest is due process.

    2. Re: An Apple A Day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      There is a tie to current Trump China policy which actually makes this somewhat relevant. Part of the tariffs and current trade negotiations which many like to proclaim are a waste (due to Trump Derangement Syndrome) deal specifically with technology theft. This is a clear example of one of the things the current administration is trying to get China to stop doing and crack down on companies that engage in it. So, while this is a story about Apple, it is also a story about current trade negotiations and more wide spread problems.

  2. What secret? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's a dwarf under the hood. Oldest trick in the book.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

  3. When will people learn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Chinese steal.

    1. Re:When will people learn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Chinese steal is the best steal.

    2. Re: When will people learn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They're just doing what Jobs wanted. Didn't he say himself that the great artists steal!

    3. Re: When will people learn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This time all of America is Xerox.

  4. iPhone maker? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "the iPhone maker"? What iPhone maker? Some guy named Brad? A machine that stamps out iPhones? Do you mean Apple? Yes? Then say Apple. This isn't a celebrity-trends blog, dipshit.

    1. Re:iPhone maker? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait, never mind, it's Bloomberg, the publication that tried to convince everyone that China was randomly soldering chips onto the middle of PCBs to steal all our secrets, which is totally how digital hardware works. Carry on.

  5. My issue with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is the use of the FBI as a private police force for Corporate America on civil matters.

    1. Re:My issue with this by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

      Is the use of the FBI as a private police force for Corporate America on civil matters.

      Corporate espionage is a federal crime.

      Economic Espionage Act of 1996

    2. Re:My issue with this by toadlife · · Score: 1

      ...on civil matters.

      Intellectual Property is a federal crime in the U.S..

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    3. Re:My issue with this by toadlife · · Score: 1

      "Intellectual Property *Theft*"

      Sorry.

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    4. Re: My issue with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bob Avakian is posting on slashdot again...

    5. Re:My issue with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When is our resident neanderthal pachyderm IT clerk living in San Jose and taking public transit to go to work in Palo Alto going to be charged with IP theft for all the IP he has stolen and put on his stupid video channel?

      Funnily enough, I guess nobody cares for now but if a miracle occurs and he ever gets successful like he dreams of, he will be fried with law suits and criminal accusations.

    6. Re:My issue with this by rtb61 · · Score: 3, Informative

      The underlying problem is not solved though, professional Chinese workers are looking to leave the USA and return to China, that is a real problem for the US, it seems they a loosing skilled workers. Obviously this guy was looking to feather his nest on the way out and gain some information to sell.

      Make no mistake though this is a corrupt corporate law, it should only be a civil matter because virtually anything under that law could be claimed as a crime with a ten year prison sentence.

      (a) Whoever, with intent to convert a trade secret, that is related to or included in a product that is produced for or placed in interstate or foreign commerce, to the economic benefit of anyone other than the owner thereof, and intending or knowing that the offense will, injure any owner of that trade secret, knowingly-- ``(1) steals, or without authorization appropriates, takes, carries away, or conceals, or by fraud, artifice, or deception obtains such information; ``(2) without authorization copies, duplicates, sketches, draws, photographs, downloads, uploads, alters, destroys, photocopies, replicates, transmits, delivers, sends, mails, communicates, or conveys such information; ``(3) receives, buys, or possesses such information, knowing the same to have been stolen or appropriated, obtained, or converted without authorization; ``(4) attempts to commit any offense described in paragraphs (1) through (3); or ``(5) conspires with one or more other persons to commit any offense described in paragraphs (1) through (3), and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy,

      This shit is wildly dangerous, any corporation could make a claim about any employee altering anything without written authorisation. A law written by corporations, for corporations and against the people. Pretty much any US corporation could prosecute any of it's employees at any time under this act for nearly anything related to anything claimed to be a secret that the employee does not have written authorisation to touch. Pretty much every US employee, should demand every instruction be in writing and only carry out those acts as specified in writing.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    7. Re:My issue with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Sorry, if someone steals dual use tech that has military applications then you best believe it's more than a civil matter.

    8. Re:My issue with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Pretty much any US corporation could prosecute any of it's employees at any time under this act

      Except US corporations could not prosecute any employees under this act because only a Federal Prosecutor (read: direction from the US Attorney General) can bring charges.

    9. Re:My issue with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cdreimer left /. after 20+ years and posted 100+ videos in 2018. His trolls are still butthurt about this.

      The thing to do for him: post more videos :)

    10. Re:My issue with this by larryjoe · · Score: 1

      Is the use of the FBI as a private police force for Corporate America on civil matters.

      This is exactly what a police force should be used for. Local police are called to arrest thieves that steal from local stores. The FBI is called to arrest thieves that steal from national companies. It just happens that the shoplifter in this case was headed for China.

    11. Re:My issue with this by larryjoe · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Make no mistake though this is a corrupt corporate law, it should only be a civil matter because virtually anything under that law could be claimed as a crime with a ten year prison sentence.

      If an employee steals a physical item, like a computer, it should obviously be a criminal act, no different than stealing a physical item from a private home. Why should the penalty be less serious for corporate intellectual property that has a higher value and the theft of which more seriously impacts a company?

      Yes, there are many US laws that are overly general in their descriptions of crimes. The only reason the US legal system seems to work is that in most cases, the prosecution and adjudication of those alleged crimes is carried out with some measure of common sense, i.e., in a way that most people would agree is reasonable.

    12. Re:My issue with this by mentil · · Score: 1

      The flipside of selective enforcement is that someone with an axe to grind against you specifically, or thinks your downfall will lift them up, can throw the book at you even if your actions were moral and didn't contradict the spirit of the law. Do you want your fate to rest on "I know it when I see it?"

      --
      Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    13. Re:My issue with this by larryjoe · · Score: 1

      The flipside of selective enforcement is that someone with an axe to grind against you specifically, or thinks your downfall will lift them up, can throw the book at you even if your actions were moral and didn't contradict the spirit of the law. Do you want your fate to rest on "I know it when I see it?"

      If the courts are functional and have sufficient safeguards for the rights of the accused, then the system works. If such courts don't exist and there is no common assumption of judicial fairness, then it doesn't matter what the law is or what the police or prosecutors do. This is one of the keys differences between the US and China. It's not so much how the law is written but how the underlying police, prosecutors, and judges function.

    14. Re:My issue with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope, you were right the first time.

    15. Re:My issue with this by mentil · · Score: 1

      Crooked courts are like a backdoored compiler. However, just because you have an unbackdoored compiler doesn't mean you're not compiling malware (bad laws).
      And yes, the police/prosecutors are responsible for the selective enforcement, which is what I was warning of.

      --
      Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    16. Re:My issue with this by jpaine619 · · Score: 1

      Corporate Espionage hurts the economy. It reduces taxable income for businesses and it can reduce the number of jobs that are generating income tax revenue. If someone can crank out cheap iPhone clones, apple is going to sell less of them. That's less sales people in stores selling iphones.

      Either the government acts as the police or the companies are going to hire people to be their police (think railroad cops back in the day). You don't cost a company large amounts of money without that company doing something about it. I'd rather it was being done by groups answerable (at least in theory) to the citizenry.

      Bounty hunters (contract fugitive recovery agents) are exempt from having to respect some of your constitutional rights (per the Supreme Court). That's what you get when you having companies hiring their own type of police force.

    17. Re:My issue with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I checked out his channel and after 2 minutes of his Alien Con clip I wanted to tear my fucking ears off.

      I know he has a speech impediment, but shit.........

    18. Re:My issue with this by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Problem is that "intellectual property" is not well defined. If someone steals a computer it's easy to point to a physical object. If someone learns how your process works and then goes off to work for the competition and uses their knowledge and experience to develop a similar system, did they "steal" your IP?

      You didn't lose your IP, your process still exists and works, and you can't reasonably expect them to wipe their memories or not use their accumulated experience in future jobs. Well, you can try with a non-compete, but they might not even be legal where they are working now.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    19. Re:My issue with this by e3m4n · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Most of what you claim is true, for the wrong reasons. Most Chinese nationals aren’t moving back out of choice and are merely looking to cash in with intellectual property. It was a prerequisite to be able to come here in the first place. They still have family under the thumb of the PRC. Make no mistake, they are not free to do what they want over here. They still answer to the PRC.

        In my opinion, any corporation that engages in any government contract should be prevented from hiring any foreign national under any circumstance at this restriction should also extend to their subcontractors as well. If your Company has a government contract didn’t even the people washing dishes in the cafeteria need to be a US citizen without exception.

        For those without government contracts, I agree that the government should not cherry pick which companies get protected. I have the same complaint about the ads that they show before movie. Why is it that if I film a movie in the theater I face jail time, but if somebody blatantly steals my code and start selling it on eBay their worst penalty is a civil lawsuit? Could it possibly be that Hollywood always hosts very high dollar, per plate, fundraising events for Democrat politicians?

    20. Re:My issue with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only way to permanently solve the problem is to change Chinese culture. That ain't happening. So our only option is to prosecute those who steal has harshly as we can so the rest don't think its worthwhile. We are dealing with an economic existential threat if that makes sense. China seeks to gather up all of the good ideas and technologies they can from the rest of the world and produce them themselves. They are very much like the scientists from jurassic park. They stand on other's work with none of the discipline or respect that would come from earning what they have.

    21. Re:My issue with this by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Most Chinese nationals arenâ(TM)t moving back out of choice and are merely looking to cash in with intellectual property. It was a prerequisite to be able to come here in the first place. They still have family under the thumb of the PRC. Make no mistake, they are not free to do what they want over here. They still answer to the PRC.

      This is mostly untrue. Chinese nationals have no trouble getting passports or leaving the country. Of course I'm sure the government targets a few individuals, just like the western ones do, but there is no mass amateur spy programme as some people seem to think.

      In my opinion, any corporation that engages in any government contract should be prevented from hiring any foreign national under any circumstance at this restriction should also extend to their subcontractors as well. If your Company has a government contract didnâ(TM)t even the people washing dishes in the cafeteria need to be a US citizen without exception.

      Aside from anything else that wouldn't work. Do you think native dish washers are any less prone to being bribed or blackmailed?

      It's also a very slippery slope. What if a staff member marries a foreigner? What if they date them one time? What if one parent was foreign? What if their sibling moves to the PRC, now they have a potential hostage according to your statement above.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    22. Re: My issue with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Chinese noose is even tighter.

    23. Re:My issue with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Calm down, you missed the most important piece of what you posted...

      "Whoever, with intent to convert a trade secret,"

      The word convert matters. Legally, it is a fancy way of saying steal.

      All of the things you're raging about only applies if the person is INTENDING to steal it.

      Simply taking a picture of a car you're not supposed to, or accidentally sending IP to someone else does not apply because there is no intent. This case, the guy is intending to take apple tech for an autonomous vehicle, and give it to his new employer who is trying to build an autonomous vehicle.

    24. Re:My issue with this by e3m4n · · Score: 2

      This is mostly untrue. Chinese nationals have no trouble getting passports or leaving the country. Of course I'm sure the government targets a few individuals, just like the western ones do, but there is no mass amateur spy programm as some people seem to think.

      Every student coming over here has been indoctrinated to put china first. The idea that china is the center of the universe is fully ingrained in the culture. The characters that mean China literally translate to middle kingdom or central kingdom. Its represented as a square with a line going right through the middle of it. If you think America-First is an offensive concept and that the word Nationalism is a dirty word like Fascism, then you should really really really hate China. What they have redefines the term Nationalism to such an extreme that no word really fits. The Chinese that do come here to live permanently do not speak ill of China if there is even a single other Chinese person around them. I once had a Taiji instructor who would never say anything negative about China unless he was certain no other Chinese person could hear and word did not get back. He was allowed to work here as a teacher, but his wife and kids were required to stay in China as 'insurance'. Then suddenly, and unexpectedly he announced he was moving to 'Florida'. We could tell he wasn't really moving to Florida. We suspect possibly Canada or Alaska. We don't know if he managed to somehow secure safety for his family or what. The PRC meddles, all the time. They meddle in shit you would wonder who the fuck would even care.

      Unhappy with just 5 recognized major 'styles' of Taiji ( Chen, Yang, Wu, Wu-Hao, and Sun), during the 2014 International Taiji Symposium (held in the USA btw) the PRC pushed and inserted another 'Grand Master' of Her-style onto the community. The other 5 families were fearful of the government 'diplomat' sent to oversee the Symposium and his government shills sent with him. The first 3 days these same people we see and talk to nearly daily were so stiff and tight lipped you could have fed them coal and they'da shit diamonds. This new Her-style?.... looks EXACTLY like Chen, the guy's dad studied Chen. They literally live in Chenjiago (Chen Village). To everyone else in the world who gives 2 shits about Taiji, its Chen-style. There is nothing political to be gained. We're taking about a martial art that, while one of the largest practiced martial arts in the world, so few can actually practice it martially its not relevant. But the PRC dislikes ANYTHING they cannot control. 'Eddie' Wu Kwong Yu was named Grand Master and the lineage holder by his uncle Wu Tai Sin, lived in Canada and not in China, so the PRC 'decided' that Ma Hai-Long was to be the Grand Master of the Wu Style despite the family association's appointment. Ma Hai-Long wasn't a Wu, he was merely married to a Wu (the families have been friends for generations so there is a lot of intermarrying). Don't get me wrong, I like Ma Hai-Long, he is a great guy. He would be the first to tell you (away from chinese ears) that he is not the true lineage holder. Now that Eddie has moved back to China and has somehow made nice with the PRC, he is starting to show up more and be recognized as the lineage holder. Are there any nuclear secrets to be learned from this meddling? No, they are a meddlesome people and simply cannot help themselves.

      Hell they fucking decided they were going to pick the next Dalai Lama. Are you a Buddhist? Do you care who the next Dali Lama is? The PRC is decisively atheist, so they really should not give 2 shits about Tibet or its spiritual leader, nor should they even think that by picking someone they can control, the Tibetan Buddhists will recognize their hand-picked shill as the Dali Lama. Its born from pure arrogance and a level of meddling they simply cannot help themselves from doing.

      So do I believe ANY Chinese national who is in a position to commit corporate espionage in order for China to maintain or gain superiority in fiel

    25. Re:My issue with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wow look at the sjw virtue signaling. ITS A FELONY.

    26. Re:My issue with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If this was private information you were working to patent and which getting out of your hands would destroy your chance of making your millions, I suspect you'd be all about using this law to it's fullest.

      As I'm sure many of the people working on the project who have spent countless hours working on it and are staking their future careers on it's success are likely very happy with the law being used.

      Lest we forget that the big evil corporation actually also includes hard working individuals whose livelihood is also at stake here.

    27. Re:My issue with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Disagree. We [US] have a lot of FVEY civilians and foreign exchange officers that are brilliant. They count as foreign nationals even though the chance of us going to war against their home countries is effectively zero due to trust and commonality of societal norms.

    28. Re:My issue with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't have any speech impediment!!!

      I have a hearing loss in one ear, so my audio will always be suspect. I use a Zoom H2 audio recorder with a pop filter 12" away from my mouth, Audacity to clean up and normalize the audio, and sync the audio to the video and apply a "voice enhancement" eq to the audio in the video editor.

    29. Re:My issue with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Its as if you don't have any experience in this area at all. Do you know what a Cryptological Technician (CT) is? Its a rate (job) in the US Navy that requires a clearance above top secret. They are the handlers of highly classified communication between command staff. Do you know what sort of vocational training a CT receives that correlates to anything in the civilian world? Aside from the linguists, NONE what so ever. So for a CT to lose their clearance is a career ending death sentence. That said, I have seen it happen, to a Senior Chief (E-8). He was a us citizen, his wife was a us citizen. While on deployment, she bounced a check. Thats it. She bounced a check. That's how seriously guarded these secrets are. He had to spend the rest of his 20yr career managing bullshit assignments like 'tech pub library' etc because his only skills were stripped away as a result of his loss of clearance.

      While I don't disagree with the bulk of your post, I do with this part... The E-8 may have told you it was simply one bounced check, but I can assure you it was more than that. I do know what you are talking about when it comes to clearances, etc from my 22 years of AD and having held those levels of clearance. A single instance of a check bouncing could occur for many reasons that are not nefarious. (she wrote the check before getting his message he had used the ATM and taken out money so needs to transfer some money into the checking account. The bank failed to credit the pay check before deducting the checks and debits- several banks were notorious for processing debits first, then credits. And so on). If it was explainable, nothing happens, except a short time with the clearance suspended.

      If you lose the clearance there is a pattern of negative information that exists (ie they bounced many checks over a long period of time. Or a combination of things..(he committed adultery, the spouse bounced a check as he had been spending money on the side chick without telling the wife, etc). And, if he were an E-8, I doubt the "rest of his 20yr career" was too long, otherwise they would have likely simply decided to not let him re-enlist due to the negative information in his security file.

    30. Re:My issue with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not really as hard as you make it sound.

      Documents aren't "your knowledge and skills", if the original document belongs to the company so does the copy you made, and running off with the copy is stealing it. If you want to legally profit from what you learned keep it "in your head".

      See not complicated at all.

    31. Re:My issue with this by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      Problem is that "intellectual property" is not well defined. If someone steals a computer it's easy to point to a physical object. If someone learns how your process works and then goes off to work for the competition and uses their knowledge and experience to develop a similar system, did they "steal" your IP?

      You didn't lose your IP, your process still exists and works, and you can't reasonably expect them to wipe their memories or not use their accumulated experience in future jobs. Well, you can try with a non-compete, but they might not even be legal where they are working now.

      In general, what you take with you in your head is fine. It doesn't matter what it is, it's not considered theft if you memorized your client list or other secret data and take it all in your head.

      If however you take files or documents with you as a physical document, or on an electronic storage device, that is considered theft. And it should be obvious that the difference is simply evidence - if you take it in your head, there's no evidence. If you take it with you, there's plenty of evidence.

      Here, the guy was caught with around 2500 documents on his laptop copied from Apple's internal servers. That's considered theft.

    32. Re: My issue with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hilarious tripe. The US isnâ(TM)t losing skilled workers. Youâ(TM)re creating rumors with a purpose. The opposite is the truth and always has been, by far. Itâ(TM)s always been why the US utterly dominates and will continue, regardless of chinese theft or growth in chinese thief babies.

  6. Waymo Uber case by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This sounds like the same as the Waymo vs Uber case, though this guy hasnâ(TM)t reported to his new job. Was that Waymo employee arrested on criminal charges?

    1. Re: Waymo Uber case by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. Nothing to do with Uber.

  7. Well if he stole it from apple, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    then the question is who did apple steal it from first?

  8. All signs point to Chuck E Cheese by SuperKendall · · Score: 0

    then the question is who did apple steal it from first?

    If you just follow a simple exercise in logic, you can find out easily.

    We know that Apple is not producing a car, so the car technology Apple stole must have been from a company also not producing self-driving cars.

    If we look at this large diagram of companies I have here (sorry, too large to reproduce in ASCII plus I think it has a curly quote in there somewhere so it wouldn't render right anyway), we can clearly see the only company not in active work on self driving cars is in fact Chuck E Cheese (ironic I know, given the advances in creepy animatronic AI they pioneered).

    Now you can see why it is imperative China not get their hands on this non-car car tech; China's uses of technology by the state are creepy enough already, and we cannot allow China to beat us in the non-car production gap.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:All signs point to Chuck E Cheese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some shills got nothing but time on their hands.
      So the answer is that apple is stealing from everyone and given their history sounds about right.
      Thank you.

  9. This has been going on for a while now. by Ziest · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Chinese engineers working for American companies in their China office have been stealing trade secrets for years. There was a famous case about 10 years ago where a large network equipment manufacturer based in the Silicon Valley had their entire CVS and Subversion repository stolen. How they found out was the American company had put an Easter Egg in the code and when they poked the software running the network switched made by a Chinese company the software printed out "Copyright "
    Which was the name of the American company.

    This shit has been going on for years and no one seems to want to do anything about it. The top management only see the size of the Chinese market and, really, the management is only there to collect their stock grants and then they are off to the next sucker^h^h^h^h^h company.

    --
    Another day closer to redwood heaven
    1. Re:This has been going on for a while now. by Ziest · · Score: 1

      The string should have been "Copyright <year> <company name>"

      --
      Another day closer to redwood heaven
    2. Re:This has been going on for a while now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      The American company was Cisco and the Chinese company was, I believe, Huawei. Yep, the same Huawei that's in hot water right now for purportedly reselling American technology to embargoed countries.

      Huawei stole the source code to Cisco's IOS.

    3. Re:This has been going on for a while now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I know someone working at a major university who caught a Chinese national copying piles and piles of unpublished research papers. They found this person had been sending crates of these things off to China to be published as their own. This was probably a good decade or more ago. The culture seems to be one of, "it is only cheating if you get caught."

    4. Re:This has been going on for a while now. by nctritech · · Score: 4, Informative

      Huawei and Cisco’s Source Code: Correcting the Record. Can't believe that they bothered copying a strcmp.c file!

    5. Re: This has been going on for a while now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That doesn't really refute anything.
      Cisco's quotes says that strcmp.c is too similar to be co-incidence. Huawei says that the code had similar original sources. Given it is strcmp.c, ie part of standard c libraries, and this was the best example they gave, it seems that Cisco is grasping.

    6. Re:This has been going on for a while now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually the culture is "you are the fool for being fooled"
      If you are stupid enough to fall for what ever scam is running then it's your fault.
      This is standard operations 101 for Chinese government, companies, out sourcing contract manufacturing, etc.

      And still we lap it up.

      This guy was more than likely being given a leg up in his new company.
      Stealing from the west is fair game.
      Very good chance they were in on it.

      Go back long enough (Chinese hold grudges) and they remember what the west did to their country.
      This is very much revenge on a political scale.

    7. Re: This has been going on for a while now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sorta like the US then

    8. Re:This has been going on for a while now. by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Cisco is claiming that Huawei copied some library files, which appear to be the standard C ones implementing string functions. They word it so that it sounds like the copied Cisco's routing protocol source, but actually if you read carefully they say "two library files" which are presumably the same as before, C standard library files.

      Did Cisco even write those files itself? More likely they are, as Huawei says, widely available online and probably copyright some other third party. Often proprietary compilers have their own C standard library implementations and they are not supposed to be distributed, but leak out by accident anyway.

      Their claims are vague and unconvincing. The court rejected them. Sounds like sour grapes.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    9. Re:This has been going on for a while now. by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      That sounds extremely unlikely. It would be very easy to detect and very obvious that multiple papers from a single university were being mysteriously plagiarised in China. There also isn't much to gain from it - publishing scientific papers brings some kudos but the whole point of it is to make the ideas public and share them with others.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    10. Re:This has been going on for a while now. by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Informative

      "That sounds extremely unlikely. It would be very easy to detect and very obvious that multiple papers from a single university were being mysteriously plagiarised in China."

      It would not be easy to detect once translated, because machine translation still produces extremely uneven results. Plus, you'd have to be looking. Finally, the GP explicitly said that these were unpublished papers. It would actually explain a lot! China's science publishing volume skyrocketed relatively recently, and they publish the largest percentage of material which turns out to be horse shit that no one ever actually researched. The idea that they're publishing papers which were deemed unworthy of publication in other countries fits this idea perfectly. Just omit anything by an author who actually does publish, and you cut the risk of detection dramatically. And if they get caught, they'll just execute some scapegoats, and the world will complain only briefly for fear of getting someone else killed. At least, that's the historical pattern.

      "There also isn't much to gain from it - publishing scientific papers brings some kudos but the whole point of it is to make the ideas public and share them with others."

      No. That might be the whole point if we were just a bunch of computers or something, but there are plenty of other reasons to publish, human reasons like getting paid, or the fact that prolific publishers have more credibility in some eyes.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    11. Re:This has been going on for a while now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your argument is not entirely convincing either, as Cisco tells what they think is right, and I believe Cisco's argument more than yours. Your arguments appear to be very similar to those of apologists for an ideological and statist competitor.

    12. Re:This has been going on for a while now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly.

      In China, it's not lying, it's being clever. If you are foolish enough to believe the lie then that's on you.

    13. Re:This has been going on for a while now. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Your arguments appear to be very similar to those of apologists for an ideological and statist competitor.

      If you're going to go that way, why don't you talk about Cisco's statism? NSA backdoors for days.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  10. Chinese born people simply can't be trusted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's a culture thing. I've met plenty and they fall into distinct categories:

    A) Paranoid
    B) Insanely competitive
    C) Both of the above.

    And all of them are nuts about their homeland, so the fact that they do espionage for it is no suprise at all. They all do it, it's just how they're bought up, and that's a bit of a shame.

  11. sorry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    but calling it the trump administration is giving trump much too much credit.

  12. Just A Normal Day in Chinese Culture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In Chinese culture, lying, stealing, and cheating are not considered to be morally wrong. They're just strategies to get ahead.

  13. Organized effort to steal Amercian wealth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Chinese government has a goal to leap frog the US and become the #1 nation by 2025. They are doing this by targeting critical technologies and then either a) Stealing them b) Sending PHD students to US universities where the research is being done and stealing it 3) Sending engineers to work in the US to steal the technology.

    For all you who want to defend China, I would remind you it is a brutal communist regime which imprisons and executes individuals who oppose it.

  14. Hey Leftists? Where's your crush on China, now? by Seven+Spirals · · Score: 1

    I was hoping some leftist would come out swinging for the Chinese. I wanted to see what kind of crazy shit they'd use to justify their self-destructive crush on China. I know they aren't going to come out full-Mao and just say "I'm far left and I love communism". Which seems to be the actual truth under the sheets. Here I'll throw some of your tropes out there to get you started. "Chinese imports help poor people who shop at Wal Mart." or "It's impossible for jobs to come back. Globalism makes them disappear into Asia forever. Impossible I say!" or how about "Free trading is the only way. Everything else will result in instant starvation. You have to let China rape you blind or we'll all starve." or "Americans don't want those jobs anyway." or "but but What will the poor private equity leeches use as a labor arbitrage if we don't have China?"

    1. Re:Hey Leftists? Where's your crush on China, now? by yfeefy · · Score: 1

      BS you aren't that curious about what the left thinks ,you just want to shove a giant carecrow in "the left" (as you call it) 's mouth. You can have the tropes you made up yourself back -- no thanks.

    2. Re:Hey Leftists? Where's your crush on China, now? by yfeefy · · Score: 1

      Also, your knowledge is out of date. McCarthy has been gone for a while --> didn't you know that it's right wing republicans who love communism now? After all, we all know whom the Russians wanted to win, Yes? Republicans like Steve Mnuchin and half the Republican senate who cosset Russian oligarchs. The NRA, the "president of the USA", and all his indicted buddies etc... come on now, Komrade.

  15. Give him ten years . . . by The+Snazster · · Score: 1

    . . . to be served as the test passenger in experimental driver-less vehicles.

  16. Those are right wing talking points, not left by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Chinese imports help poor people who shop at Wal Mart."

    The left does not support poor people "shopping", as that implies they still have to work in the capitalist system for a wage. Nay, the left would rather we all magically be given all the welfare we need, for free.

    The left certainly doesn't support a megacorp like Walmart. If we must tolerate Walmart, well we have people like Bernie proposing we tax the them to pay for the poor's welfare.

      "It's impossible for jobs to come back. Globalism makes them disappear into Asia forever. Impossible I say!"

    As above, the left doesn't support capitalism. Globalism is just the natural progression of capitalism, with big megacorps being the primary beneficiaries. And again as above, the left doesn't support megacorps.

    "Free trading is the only way."

    The left? Supporting free trade? LOL

    "Americans don't want those jobs anyway."

    It's not the left who's using that as an excuse to hire more H1Bs. The left are the jobless welfare queens remember? They don't make the hiring decisions.

    "but but What will the poor private equity leeches use as a labor arbitrage if we don't have China?"

    The left? Defend private corporate welfare? LOLOLOLOLOL

    TLDR: it's actually the right who loves China. Notice how even Trump wants to make a deal with them, instead of giving them the Iran treatment.

  17. The real 'self driving car' secret: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They're SHIT and will never work as advertised. Shhhh, don't tell anyone, not until we've made our money back!