Ask Slashdot: How Dead Is Java? (jaxenter.com)

This week HackerRank reported Java is now only the second most popular programming language, finally dropping behind JavaScript in the year 2018.

Now long-time Slashdot reader shanen asks about the rumors that Java is dead -- or is it?

Can you convince me that Java isn't as dead as it seems? It's just playing dead and will spring to life?
This week one Java news site argued that Java-based Minecraft has in fact "spawned a new generation of Java developers," citing an interview with Red Hat's JBoss Middleware CTO. (And he adds that "It's still the dominant programming language in the enterprise, so whether you're building enterprise clients, services or something in between, Java likely features in there somewhere.") Yet the original submission drew some interesting comments:

• "The licensing scheme for Java kills it..."

• "Java programs still are 'the alien on your desktop'. They suck in many ways. Users have learned to avoid them and install 'real programs' instead..."

But what do Slashdot's readers think? Leave your own answers in the comments.

How dead is Java?

Comments

Re: C# Killed Java

[Anonymous Coward]

No. Oracle killed Java.

Re:Not dead

[Spamalope]

You forgot the security problems. What a steaming pile. My experience is you can half the frequency of business desktop virus problems by uninstalling JVM or at least blocking the ability of anything web or email based touching it. It's a disaster anywhere a regular user can click on something that runs it. Sad since the design model could have been secure.

Re:Seems fine to me

[slack_justyb]

Not sure why there's comments of licensing issues... it's a free download from Oracle's website

Well the issue is complex if you stick to Oracle provided binaries, the TL;DR simple answer is to move on to OpenJDK and be done with it.

Java SE 8 which was the last version you could "freely" use in a commercial product, if you go to Oracle's website at the moment, you'll get this message.

Oracle will not post further updates of Java SE 8 to its public download sites for commercial use after January 2019. Customers who need continued access to critical bug fixes and security fixes as well as general maintenance for Java SE 8 or previous versions can get long term support through Oracle Java SE Subscription or Oracle Java SE Desktop Subscription. For more information, and details on how to receive longer term support for Oracle JDK 8, please see the Oracle Java SE Support Roadmap.

Going forward you now have two options. Oracle OpenJDK which is an open source JDK that you may use as you see fit, the end. Oracle JDK, which starting at version 11 is Oracle OpenJDK plus some Oracle enhancements. You may freely download Oracle JDK and use it for development and testing, however, Oracle JDK cannot be used for production or commercial use without being anally raped by Oracle, so yeah you cannot download Oracle JDK and just use it without being in some degree of violation of Larry Ellison's 37th yacht fund somewhere in the fine print of that download. Additionally, Oracle has gotten a little blood thirsty lately so use Oracle JDK without a license at your own damn risk.

So you might ask, so if we have OpenJDK, who would want Oracle JDK? The important thing to remember that OpenJDK provided by Oracle is Oracle's build of OpenJDK, which may or may not have all the most recent patches. Basically, Oracle's OpenJDK is on par patch wise the day a new version hits with Oracle JDK. So when Java 11 hit, that day Oracle JDK and Oracle OpenJDK were functionally the same. However any patches that Oracle JDK has received since that day, Oracle OpenJDK hasn't or might have, it's basically "meh we patch it when we patch it." However, Oracle isn't the only game in the OpenJDK build world.

Here's a post about all the different folks building OpenJDK. I suggest OpenJDK from AdpotOpenJDK or if you are using Linux, BSD, Unix, etc Just use the OpenJDK that your vendor provides, they usually keep it reasonably up to date. What the change does do, is make everyone change their old habit of just going to Oracle's site, download their JDK, and go from there. Instead, just go grab a non-Oracle build, beside we shouldn't be frequenting Oracle anyway.

Outside of that, Java is still Java and unsurprisingly Oracle is still shooting themselves in the foot. The most recent move with Java 9, 10, and 11 only further cements folks' decisions to leave Oracle as their provider of a Java implementation.

Re: C# Killed Java

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah, C# is a no-go. It's only useful as long as you don't care about any platforms beyond Microsoft Windows. That means C# may have killed Borland C++ Builder, but it did pretty much nothing to Java.

Oracle killed Java. Suing Google over their use of Java in Android was an absurdly stupid move. Android was THE one mainstream platform where Java was finally a first class app. Way to go alienating your user base Oracle.

Re:Microsoft could help

[drinkypoo]

The .NET Framework is kept constantly up to date by Windows Update. It might be nice if Java was a Windows "Feature"

Perhaps you have forgotten history. Microsoft had a JVM. Then they did weird stuff to it which was not quite compatible with other JVMs, and they still wanted to call it "Java". They got sued and lost, and they could no longer play their Embrace-Extend-Extinguish game with Java, so they invented .NET to compete with Java instead. Sun went down the toilet bowl, and Oracle hasn't really even tried to keep Java current, so now .NET beats Java like a piece of meat.

Re: What?

[jma05]

> Many talented folks who jumped ship from Python are now Gophers.

You might get that impression if you read some enthusiastic bloggers. But the stats don't seem to reflect that at all.

http://www.modulecounts.com/

Go is adding an average of 5 modules per day. That is quite low. Compare that to 118 for Python and 128 for Java. Even Rust is growing faster.

Much of Python's recent resurgence has been in "data science". Go community barely even attempts to solve anything here.
It's appeal to Python programmers is in a rather narrow class of problems.
Static binary? Against Java 11 with the upcoming GraalVM, I don't see much in favor of Go.

Re: C# Killed Java

[TheRaven64]

Literally everything that you said in that post is wrong. In terms of being very similar to Java, here are a few differences:

• C# has signed and unsigned primitive types (Java has only signed)
• C# has pass-by-value struct types.
• C# has asynchronous dispatch / rendezvous in the language.
• C# has type-preserving generics (Java's are type erasing).
• C# has type-safe callback functions ('delegates'), Java requires you to use anonymous classes for the same functionality (both now use lambdas where possible).
• Java methods are always virtual, C# methods are non-virtual unless otherwise specified.

As to the var thing, this is simple type inference. It is roughly analogous to C++11's auto. It's nothing to do with Visual Basic, it's more important for things like LINQ, where you end up with complex types that depend on the value of an expression and you don't want to force the programmer to write them explicitly. In these cases, var lets you bind variables to values of anonymous types. The code is still strongly statically typed.