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'The World Might Actually Run Out of People' (wired.com)

An anonymous reader shares a report: By 2050 there will be 9 billion carbon-burning, plastic-polluting, calorie-consuming people on the planet. By 2100, that number will balloon to 11 billion, pushing society into a Soylent Green scenario. Such dire population predictions aren't the stuff of sci-fi; those numbers come from one of the most trusted world authorities, the United Nations. But what if they're wrong? Not like, off by a rounding error, but like totally, completely goofed?

That's the conclusion Canadian journalist John Ibbitson and political scientist Darrel Bricker come to in their newest book, Empty Planet, due out February 5th. After painstakingly breaking down the numbers for themselves, the pair arrived at a drastically different prediction for the future of the human species. "In roughly three decades, the global population will begin to decline," they write. "Once that decline begins, it will never end." But Empty Planet is not a book about statistics so much as it is about what's driving the choices people are making during the fastest period of change in human history.

16 of 478 comments (clear)

  1. OK, you lost me... by Brett+Buck · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Most trusted world authorities - the UN?! The same UN that puts Sudan on the "Human Rights Committee"?

    1. Re:OK, you lost me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      All extrapolation on this level is meaningless.

      In three decades, we will have invented technologies that we cannot now imagine, and they will change our incentives, and our culture, in ways we cannot now understand.

      We will adapt to whatever happens in whatever way seems to make the most sense, which cannot be predicted from where we sit now, completely ignorant of the very changes that will drive that adaptation.

      The only thing we know for sure is that the rate of change is faster than it has ever been. Making all long-term predictions useless.

    2. Re:OK, you lost me... by Scarletdown · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That is like saying the Onion or The National Enquirer are the most trusted sources for news.

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    3. Re:OK, you lost me... by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Most trusted world authorities - the UN?! The same UN that puts Sudan on the "Human Rights Committee"?

      It's probably not a bad idea to have one of the worse offenders actively involved in trying to find a solution.

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      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    4. Re:OK, you lost me... by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Imagine inviting Russia into NATO because they're one of the worst offenders actively involved in finding a solution. Not a bad idea, right?

      Face it, the UN is an anti-Semitic joke. It was someone's good idea that didn't work out. It needs to be disbanded and completely reworked. Nations like Sudan need to be told firmly to change or be ostracized. Basically how we treat North Korea and Russia.

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      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    5. Re:OK, you lost me... by bob4u2c · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yep, makes total sense. We should put people who molest children in charge of stopping child molesters. We should put gang member in charge of stopping gang deaths. We should put people who award their friends large government contracts in charge of determining who gets federal assistance. After all they know exactly how its done and can best prevent others, right? They would never abuse that power and/or give themselves loop holes!

      Yes, these are extremes, but you get the point. And yes, there are counter examples; like putting a hacker in charge of you security (I'd still watch them like a hawk).

    6. Re:OK, you lost me... by jythie · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Eh, the UN is a good reminder that while the US and Europe often believe they are the only countries in the world, the are not. I am not sure how you picture it being restructured since it already gives unparalleled power to a small number of founding nations, so not sure how much more skewed you can make it unless you just federalize the world under US control.

    7. Re:OK, you lost me... by balbeir · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It's probably not a bad idea to have one of the worse offenders actively involved in trying to find a solution.

      On the other hand.

      It's similar to putting a mobster in the white house. How is that experiment going?

    8. Re:OK, you lost me... by Aighearach · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Somebody forgot that the Palestinians are also Semites. That is, literally, anti-Semitic.

    9. Re:OK, you lost me... by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's probably not a bad idea to have one of the worse offenders actively involved in trying to find a solution.

      On the other hand.

        It's similar to putting a mobster in the white house. How is that experiment going?

      The correct analogy would be if a mobster was an advisor to the President. (not a mobster being the President). A mobster could give interesting advice to the President. Naturally, if you put the mobster in charge of the country it would cause chaos, government might even shut down.

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      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    10. Re:OK, you lost me... by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The violence will end when everybody currently being ethnically cleansed is dead. Peace in our time!

      I know you were joking, but the lads/lasses out there doing "ethnic cleansing" aren't going to stop when the current victims are all dead - they'll just find someone else to enjoy the benefits of being "ethnically cleansed".

      And when they run out of those guys, they'll turn on each other....

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      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    11. Re:OK, you lost me... by Immerman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Would it? Right now the vast majority of the global population is stuck in economic conditions that pretty much preclude them making any contribution to the advancement of science or technology. If we eliminated all of that poverty as the population shrank, we could reduce the population to a small fraction of its current size without affecting the number of contributors significantly. After that point, yes, advancement would likely slow - but so would the need for the many advancements needed just to try to solve the problems created by the last round of advancements.

      And of course there's the fact that technological progress is arguably advancing exponentially, and much faster than the population is growing. In which case you could potentially reduce the number of scientists and engineers quite rapidly while the pace of advancement continued to increase, though obviously more slowly than it otherwise might.

      It's also not entirely clear that technology actually has much to offer in terms of improving standard of living. At least not once you've established a reliably adequate food supply and reasonably effective medicine. Does the existence of TVs, cars, cell-phones, etc actually improve our quality of life, rather than just changing it in a value-neutral manner that's marketed as an improvement? How would you even begin to objectively answer that question? Technology certainly gives us more options, but as numerous psychology studies have shown, having more than a relatively small range of options actually tends to reduce happiness and satisfaction.

      Finally, the things that definitely *do* improve happiness - comfortable shelter, good health, art, and spending time with loved ones - we've had the technology to provide that to everyone with minimal effort for at least a century, and have chosen not to do so, instead creating a rat race where billions of people sacrifice those things to work long hours at jobs that they hate, to buy things they don't need, to impress people they don't care about. Perhaps a few centuries or millenia of slowed technological progress would give us an opportunity for our cultural and social technologies to catch up with our mechanical ones.

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      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  2. You missed the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Clearly, demonstrably, populations reproduce and continue to exist barring extinction events like asteroid strikes, famine, and plagues.

    Social changes, where it is too expensive to raise children so couples frequently have only a single child. If your birthrate falls below 1.0 and nothing convinces people to reverse the trend then the scenario is quite realistic.

    It's all bullshit futurist conjecture and there is zero evidence to support it. So while it is a plausible possibility, it is not a cause for concern.

  3. Riiight. And I have this bridge for sale. by whitroth · · Score: 1, Insightful

    A journalist and a political scientist... sure seems like the right team to look into this.

    It took us what, 200 years to go from around 1B to 7B. Unless we have a nuclear war, or a plague - and even the latter ain't gonna kill 90%, it's not going to happen.

    As it is, we know - 1:1 correlation - that the higher the educational level of the woman, the lower the birthrate. HOWEVER, the idea that 80+% of humans will just not want to reproduce is ludicrous. Even if the world is in such bad shape that folks don't want to inflict it on their children, people will still want kids. There is this thing called hardwiring in biology.....

  4. Re:population decline will not exist everywhere by Sique · · Score: 5, Insightful
    It's quite more complicated. If you look at the CIA's World Fact Book, you will see, that most countries of the world including most Third World nations now have reproduction rates of about 1.8 to 2.2. Higher reproduction rates exists only in countries with really long wars, unrest or civil wars, e.g. Afghanistan or the Democratic Republic of Kongo.

    And you vastly underestimate the access to health care and education in the "shithole countries". The world view of the West often is stuck in the 1970ies and 1980ies and has not gotten much update since then. 80% of the world population now has better health care coverage than Western countries in the 1960ies, when the baby boom came to an end, and the average time a girl somewhere in the world of today visits school is eight years. And thus, the baby boom for 80% of the world has actually ended.

    Health care and women's education are the main factors that drove reproduction rates down, not stable governments or wealth. They do help, but are less important than you think.

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    .sig: Sique *sigh*
  5. Re:People don't change by smoot123 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    People don't change.

    People might not change but their environment surely does. Up until recently, most humans lived in mud huts and were one poor harvest away from starving to death. Half their children died before age 5. And by "recently" I mean 50-100 years ago, compared to 10,000 years of recorded history.

    Compare that to today. About a billion people today live in dire poverty, out of 7 billion. A billion people is a lot but having "only" one seventh of our population in that situation is revolutionary. We've never been this wealthy or healthy, historically speaking. And being healthy and wealthy definitely changes how you behave.

    Please don't misinterpret me. I'm not saying six billion people are living in McMansions and have trouble deciding which sports car to drive to work. Most of the world is still pretty poor compared to my neighborhood in California. All I'm saying is they're much better off than the subsistence farmers throughout most of human history.