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Sprint Sues AT&T Over 5G Branding (reuters.com)

Posted by msmash on from the see-you-in-court dept.

Sprint Corp sued AT&T late on Thursday, saying it is misleading consumers into believing that they are using fifth generation wireless network, known as 5G, a technology that has not yet been widely deployed. From a report: AT&T customers are seeing "5G E" logo on their mobile devices in over 400 markets. Although users are still using 4G network, AT&T is calling it 5G Evolution, a faster version of its existing network and a first step on the road to 5G. 5G can offer data speeds up to 50 or 100 times faster than 4G networks.

33 of 70 comments (clear)

  1. Where is the FTC? by sjbe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sprint Corp sued AT&T late on Thursday, saying it is misleading consumers into believing that they are using fifth generation wireless network, known as 5G, a technology that has not yet been widely deployed.

    It's kind of annoying that the FTC (or whatever three letter agency with jurisdiction) isn't sitting on them hard about this fraud. Marketing spin is one thing but this is pretty deeply shady.

    1. Re:Where is the FTC? by omnichad · · Score: 2

      Someone has to prove that "5G" actually means something when generational labels are mostly just marketing fluff.

    2. Re:Where is the FTC? by Iwastheone · · Score: 1

      "Real" 5G is 2/3 years away still, as far as I've learned.

    3. Re:Where is the FTC? by UnknowingFool · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In this case, I would think the FCC would also be involved. But guess who is head of the FCC? Ajit Pai. That gives you an answer why they are not involved.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    4. Re: Where is the FTC? by Iwastheone · · Score: 1

      "Real" 5G is here. Cell companies are putting up real 5G towers. There are no 5G phones released quite yet, but you can buy a 5G mobile hotspot right now. Qualcomm has already released 5G hardware and phones are coming out that will support it very soon. (Unless you use Apple, thanks to their feud with Qualcomm.)

      Thanks, I should have said that real 5G is 2/3 years away from being fully rolled out/implemented.

    5. Re: Where is the FTC? by olsmeister · · Score: 1

      Is there really a market for it if that is the case? I guess that maybe the wireless providers master plan is to try to cut into the cable MSO subscriber base after DSL proved to be slow and cumbersome, but with DOCSIS 3.1 rolling out and Full Duplex DOCSIS on the horizon you have to wonder if that is money well spent.

    6. Re:Where is the FTC? by alvinrod · · Score: 1

      The whole thing is a farce to begin with and the same shit played out with 4G. Hell, there's still services being sold as 4G that doesn't even meet the technical specifications for it today. Sprint should just one up them and start selling their network as 6G. Full on five blades strategy.

      The stupid part is that it really doesn't matter how fast your connection is when the carriers impose such tiny bandwidth caps. It's like driving a formula one car on a track with a brick wall at the end of the quarter mile stretch.

    7. Re:Where is the FTC? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      The FTC historically has never done much, it's pretty much toothless. This is why the anti-government crowd prefers having the FTC have jurisdiction rather than other departments with a better record at effectiveness.

    8. Re:Where is the FTC? by jwhyche · · Score: 2

      I'm glad that Sprint is stepping up and taking this on. Under the current administration the FCC is less than useless.

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    9. Re:Where is the FTC? by Solandri · · Score: 1

      False advertising is the jurisdiction of the FTC. The FCC just licenses the airwaves and how they're used. It doesn't regulate what the licencees decide to call it (LTE, WiMax, UMTS, HSDPA, etc - I'm an engineer and love acronyms as much as any other engineer, but I really wish these things had gotten better names). We all love to crap on Ajit Pai, but this really is outside the FCC's jurisdiction.

    10. Re:Where is the FTC? by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      It isn’t in the jurisdiction of the FTC to determine what is and isn’t “5G” cellular networks. If there is no official definition then the FTC cannot decide for or against AT&T. The Federal Communication Commission could decide what “5G” just like it decides what is “broadband”.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  2. The U.S. government needs FAR better management. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 2

    I wish the U.S. government managed effectively. Government should limit corporate abuse.

  3. AT&T is calling it 5G Evolution by Red_Forman · · Score: 1, Interesting

    And I'm calling it "5G dumbasses".

    They should call it "4G E", for "4G enhanced" and it would probably be okay with everyone involved.

    1. Re:AT&T is calling it 5G Evolution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      that's what the "4G LTE" bullshit was.. fake "4G" that didn't quite meet the actual specs for it.. so technically, at&t's "5G E" is actually 3G (aka " 3.95G") masquerading as 4G but they're calling it 5G.

    2. Re:AT&T is calling it 5G Evolution by _merlin · · Score: 1

      LTE actually is 4G. What AT&T did was get phones with their branded firmware to display "4G" annunciator in W-CDMA HSPA+ mode. This is an enhancement to 3G UMTS W-CDMA and phones usually use a "3G H+" annunciator for it.

      Everyone calls LTE 4G - it's a completely different technology (OFDMA/SC-FDMA with cyclic prefix rather than CDMA), and gives far better battery life as well as better data rates. But now AT&T is now using "5GE" branding for faster modes of LTE. Other carriers call this "4GX" and it typically doesn't show a different annunciator to other LTE modes. (For example I have a Galaxy S8 that shows a "Telstra 4GX splash screen on boot, but just shows the regular "LTE" of "VoLTE" annunciators for all LTE modes.)

    3. Re:AT&T is calling it 5G Evolution by rjr162 · · Score: 1

      No, LTE was not/is not 4G. LTE Advanced *would* have met the requirements. Marketing folks fudged the names for marketing reasons.
      Look at the ITU classifications and the actual specs of LTE

  4. What standing does Sprint have? by radarskiy · · Score: 1

    5G in this context is a trademark of 3GPP. Only they can object to an unauthorized usage.

    1. Re:What standing does Sprint have? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      5G in this context is a trademark of 3GPP. Only they can object to an unauthorized usage.

      They're not objecting to an unauthorized usage, they're objecting to fraudulent usage which is designed to provide an unfair competitive advantage, which is an anticompetitive practice.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:What standing does Sprint have? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sprint isn't accusing them of trademark infringement, they're accusing them of false advertising.

  5. have the ITU revise the 5G spec to make it clear by EnOne · · Score: 1, Interesting

    If the International Olympic Committee IOC can say who can and can't say "Olympics" then the International Telecommunication Union (ITU) should be able to say what is and isn't "4G" "4G LTE" "4G LTE E" "5G E" or "5G"

    --
    Calvin:Do you believe in the devil? Hobbes:I'm not sure man needs the help.
  6. Re:just like everything else by omnichad · · Score: 1

    Because 60p wasn't going to happen and sports broadcasting demands faster motion.

  7. Re:have the ITU revise the 5G spec to make it clea by omnichad · · Score: 1

    So that just means that Sprint/FTC goes after them instead of AT&T. Or are you saying that anyone can just fund a trade group and shield themselves from scrutiny?

  8. Re:just like everything else by omnichad · · Score: 1

    Live TV doesn't need to be de-interlaced with anything but doubling. Each field should be interpolated separately and shown at the full 60Hz. There is no reason to combine that down to 30 frames.

    Bad de-interlacing probably comes down to video that was not flagged as interlaced before it was compressed and ended up with bad artifacts as a result. Or your device was sending the video to your TV without it being flagged properly.

  9. Re:have the ITU revise the 5G spec to make it clea by EnOne · · Score: 1

    The ITU is the group that comes up with the specs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... the same way that the IOC covers Olympics and the International Bureau of Weights and Measures says what a "meter" and a "kilogram" are.

    --
    Calvin:Do you believe in the devil? Hobbes:I'm not sure man needs the help.
  10. Beat them at their own game. by bob4u2c · · Score: 1

    Just run a few adds quickly explaining that other vendors have branded their old networks 5G E, but Sprint is putting up true 5G technology which includes better x and y. Show a few simple graphs of someone browsing websites on the 5G E network vs their true 5G network. Follow up with 5G E is just the old 4LTE network given a new name. Maybe something like an old time miner polishing up a piece of junk and trying to pass it off as the latest thing.

    Actually I find it funny the AT&T commercials that paint others as just OK, leaving the viewer to fill in that they are the best. Of course having dealing with them I know better; DirectTv bill messed up for 6 months, services shut off because changing systems, canceling DSL only to be charged for the next 4 months because the bills are prepared by a different department then billing. When ever one of those commercials come up I keep thinking, yeah, but at least OK is better than the worst.

    1. Re:Beat them at their own game. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sprint hasn't started with their 3G deployment though, they're just a few decades behind the curve.

  11. A case of the pot calling the kettle black.. by nanospook · · Score: 1

    Umm Sprint? Remember when I was your customer? Those years where you prated on about having 4G and all I could get was 3G unless I was at your store? Step out into the street you said? Head downtown Dallas you said? Endless reasons why it didn't work for me. Poser..

    --
    Have you fscked your local propeller head today?
    1. Re:A case of the pot calling the kettle black.. by pauljlucas · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I'll never use Sprint again. I tried them a few years ago with an LTE-equipped iPad. I was standing on Market Street in downtown San Francisco and was getting litterally an order of magnitude worse bandwidth than my Verizon iPhone at the exact same location. I dropped Sprint and and now both devices use Verizon.

      --
      If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
  12. Re:The U.S. government needs FAR better management by nanospook · · Score: 1

    It's not management, its corporate corruption at the top..

    --
    Have you fscked your local propeller head today?
  13. Sprint did the same thing in the past by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

    Sprint did the same thing with a fake version of 4G that was actually using the 3G network. The old Samsung Epic I had would boot up with big 4G swirling text, but it was the same thing AT&T is doing now. Perhaps they are actually upset about them being copied.

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    -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
    1. Re:Sprint did the same thing in the past by Solandri · · Score: 2

      I had an Epic 4G. It supported WiMax, which was a legit 4G service. It lost out to LTE due to higher power consumption and inferior bandwidth utilization. Sprint eventually converted its WiMax towers to LTE, but that was long after I'd replaced the phone. In the areas which had WiMax coverage, I typically got 15-20 Mbps, vs about 1-3 Mbps for 3G. (Course the phone wold die in 2 hours from the battery drain of using WiMax...)

  14. 4.5G by sixsixtysix · · Score: 2

    Why not be smart and use 4.5G?

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    ...
    1. Re:4.5G by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Why not be smart and use 4.5G?

      Why spin something like that when you can sell your service on marketing hype knowing full well consumer protection laws in the USA aren't worth a damn?