A Software Malfunction Is Throwing Riders Off of Lime Scooters (qz.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Quartz: Riders in Switzerland and New Zealand have reported the front wheels of their electric scooters locking suddenly mid-ride, hurling riders to the ground. The malfunction has resulted in dozens of injuries ranging from bruises to broken jaws. Lime pulled all its scooters from Swiss streets in January when reports of the incidents surfaced there. When the city of Auckland, New Zealand voted to suspend the company earlier this week following 155 reported cases of sudden braking, the company acknowledged that a software glitch was causing the chaos. The company claims that fewer than 0.0045% of all rides worldwide have been affected, adding that "any injury is one too many." An initial fix reduced the number of incidents, it said, and a final update underway on all scooters will soon be complete. "Recently we detected a bug in the firmware of our scooter fleet that under rare circumstances could cause sudden excessive braking during use," Lime wrote in a blog post Saturday. "[I]n very rare cases -- usually riding downhill at top speed while hitting a pothole or other obstacle -- excessive brake force on the front wheel can occur, resulting in a scooter stopping unexpectedly."

Comments

Sounds like they have

[50000BTU_barbecue]

Lime disease! ...

Yeah!

what a stupid design

[FudRucker]

who was stupid enough to decide to put the brake controls though computer/software??? the brakes should be the old fashioned hand/lever brakes with a cable going down to the wheels then you dont have to worry about the software for it, by running the brakes though a computer/software is just making a scooter more complicated than it needs to be, the best philosophy is to Keep it Simple

Re:what a stupid design

[Entrope]

They use electronically activated brakes to keep people from using the scooters without paying.

Re:what a stupid design

[FudRucker]

now Lims is paying for that decision, they should have just prevented the motor from turning until it was rented

Re:what a stupid design

[mobby_6kl]

Whether or not they normally use an actual physical brake instead of brake by wire (which they probably are, never used one), the bug could be just unintentionally turning on motor braking, causing pretty much the same problem.

Re:what a stupid design

[PolygamousRanchKid]

Sounds like an attack vector for the Internet of Scooters as well.

These scooters seem to have a lot of enemies.

My first thought that this braking was caused by malevolent hackers who are annoyed by scooters.

Re:what a stupid design

[OzPeter]

who was stupid enough to decide to put the brake controls though computer/software???

There is nothing inherently wrong with using computer controlled brakes. This is done in all sorts of industrial automation.

However, with that said the Safety integrity level (SIL) is a well known specification used to asses failure levels and the consequence of said failures. And in order to meet the higher levels, you have to have all sorts of fancy analysis that predicts the likelihood of a failure, and provides mechanisms to mitigate that failure.

And I bet that these clowns haven't even considered such a thing and are producing a device that could potentially kill someone (EG sudden braking flipping the rider into the path of a moving vehicle).

As an example I am working on automated cranes used in places where people could be killed if a software/hardware failure occurs. In order to reach our required SIL level we require a safety computer that is physically separate (and runs independently) from the main computer and can shut down operations when it detects certain conditions.

Re:what a stupid design

[OzPeter]

Sounds like an attack vector for the Internet of Scooters as well.

These scooters seem to have a lot of enemies

It comes from being a "disruptor". Which is hipster speak for

I'm going to do what I want and I don't care what you think or how it affects you because you are not our target demographic, (even if doing so breaks laws)

Re:what a stupid design

[hey!]

Which in a sound design would be controlled by a circuit that was disabled when the wheel is in motion, *thus preventing a software or malware mediated accident*.

Re:what a stupid design

[OzPeter]

I am not precluding inherently safe design, but if you manufacture a system that has a failure mode that causes injury or death then you need to take that into account, and SIL levels are the appropriate method of assessing it. And in those cases mitigation is the correct term to use. SIL analysis is statistical in nature, thus there can be no absolutes, so can only mitigate the affects of a failure, you can't completely design out the possibility of a failure. And yes, even intentionally applying the brakes and causing a face plant could be considered a failure mode.

And as for

standards for SIL in this case are typically applied where failure will result in multiple millions of dollars of damage along with killing multiple people

I don't think you understand the scope of SIL. Even minor injuries can fall under SIL classifications if the frequency of occurrence is high enough.

Re:what a stupid design

[kevmeister]

It comes from being a "disruptor". Which is hipster speak for

I'm going to do what I want and I don't care what you think or how it affects you because you are not our target demographic, (even if doing so breaks laws)

Palm Springs dealt with Bird by simply pointing out that they were operating with no business license. They then sent out crews to pick up all of the scooters. Bird was informed that they could pick up their property by paying the impound and storage fees. At last report Bird had not responded. I've seen no recent reports as to whether the scooters have been auctioned off as unclaimed property.

Re:what a stupid design

[samwichse]

"...usually riding downhill at top speed while hitting a pothole or other obstacle..."

It sounds like that's how the software worked, but those darn users found an edge case.

Downhill at top speed: user is not applying motor. So the "motor called for" lockout on braking is off.

While hitting a pothole: User is braking, hits a big pothole with the non-suspension front wheel. This would cause the wheel to momentarily stop turning. Now the "wheel is in motion" lockout on braking is off.

Now imagine their time is up, and the software is ticking down waiting for the wheels to stop turning and power to stop being applied to lock the brakes. And then the above scenario happens.

The fix will probably be as simple as changing the "wheels not turning" value to "wheels not turning for 2s." Those silly users break everything :)

Sam

Autonomous

[fluffernutter]

I can't wait until this technology is in cars!

Re:Autonomous

[thegarbz]

I can't wait until this technology is in cars!

Wait no longer. (Also side note, how old is your car that it doesn't have these systems? They've been standard in Mercedes for >20 years now).

And for some real fun you should check out how truck brakes are designed, whereby any failure, not just a computer bug would result in the brakes activating.

Re:It's not a bug,

[Yosho]

Maybe I'm to old to understand the attraction to these things.

Imagine, if you can, that there is a place you need to physically be. Let's say it's a place you could physically walk to, but maybe doing so would take longer than you'd like, plus if you're not in good physical condition -- which I'd expect a old person would be able to sympathize with! -- it may be physically taxing or difficult to walk that long. Even for a young, fit person, if the weather isn't very nice, you might arrive either all hot and sweaty or half-frozen.

Now, imagine that I've got a vehicle you can ride that will get you there in a third of the time and with minimal physical effort, and it'll only cost you about a dollar. To top it off, you don't have to worry about maintenance or security. Do you see the attraction now?

Exclusive!

[DontBeAMoran]

Here is what users of Lime Scooters have to say about this problem.

Note sure why anyone is against scooters

[SuperKendall]

riding downhill at top speed while hitting a pothole or other obstacle -- excessive brake force on the front wheel can occur

Just when we thought humanity might be avoiding evolutionary correction, along come scooters to redress the problem!

Re:It's not a bug,

[swillden]

No. And you forgot to state in your hypothetical that the vehicle in question is dangerous even without the software problems and requires you to be perfectly healthy and agile to get an approximation of a safe ride.

I'm 50 years old and 70 pounds overweight. I find e-scooters to be convenient, fun, cheap and adequately safe urban transportation when I'm traveling. Quicker and less tiring than walking, more convenient, cheaper and more fun than taxi/Uber or renting a car.

I wouldn't use a scooter in bad weather, though. If it's too hot, too cold or too wet, I'll get enclosed transportation. Though I do agree that a scooter widens my tolerance for heat and cold a bit, especially heat.

That's a killer flaw, however "rare"

[EdZep]

Anyone that's ever endo'd on a bike, skateboard, etc. can tell you how unpleasant and really dangerous sudden deceleration is. On a device that leaves you exposed, it's your worst nightmare.

But, hey, when it does (rarely) happen, it's when you're going downhill, at high speed! And, that's when an endo is most dangerous.

"[I]n very rare cases -- usually riding downhill at top speed while hitting a pothole or other obstacle -- excessive brake force on the front wheel can occur, resulting in a scooter stopping unexpectedly."