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DST-Hating Reps in Washington State Vote To 'Ditch the Switch' (komonews.com)

In the state of Washington, the House has voted 89 to 7 to "ditch the switch, bring the light, and defeat the dark night," says one representative. KOMO reports: Changing the clocks twice a year impacts the body's natural rhythms and is associated with a spike in heart attacks, strokes, and traffic collisions each year, according to the Washington State Department of Health's impact review. Extended daylight in the evening is also better for kids who play sports or who are active outside, Riccelli said. The bill now heads to the Senate for consideration.... The federal government would have the final say.
And meanwhile, one Pennsylvania newspaper has published a state representative's op-ed calling for Pennsylvania to help lead the resistance in America's Eastern Standard Time zone, complaining that "This weekend, we again will be forced to comply with an archaic tradition, one that offers no benefits." There is no national crisis that changing clocks helps to alleviate. In fact, there are more negative side effects from changing clocks than benefits. Studies have shown that automobile accidents, workplace injuries, heart attacks, strokes, cluster headaches, miscarriages, depression, and suicides all increase in the weeks following clock changes.

This government-mandated interruption of natural biological rhythms and sleep cycles can wreak havoc on job performance, academic results, and overall physical/mental health. Clock changes require farmers to make needless adjustments, as crops and animals live by the sunlight... During this legislative session, I will be working to advance this commonsense legislation that will not only end the antiquated ritual of changing clocks, but will also help preserve the health, safety, well-being, productivity, and lives of Pennsylvanians.

33 of 282 comments (clear)

  1. Count me in by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If this ever comes up for a vote I'll be first in line to abolish DST and the pointless back-and-forth with the clocks.

    It's stupid and serves no purpose except to fuck up everyone's schedule twice a year.

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    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    1. Re:Count me in by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I should add that no one, literally NO ONE I know wants to continue with the DST bullshit. No one has ever wanted it as far back as I can recall. I honestly can't think of a single person in my entire life that thought it was a good thing.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    2. Re:Count me in by mentil · · Score: 2

      It's a conspiracy by Big Candle to sell more light-production products.
      Damn you, Yankee Candle!

      --
      Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    3. Re:Count me in by Z80a · · Score: 2

      The best argument for DST got killed by better lamps.

    4. Re:Count me in by Aighearach · · Score: 2

      The BBQ lobby can cite lots of reasons, like more daylight evening hours for outdoor BBQ.

      That's who asked Congress to extend it, when they extended it.

    5. Re:Count me in by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      The best argument for DST got killed by better lamps.

      It was also killed by the wide adoption of air conditioning. The power saved by people using less light in the evening is swamped by the power used to run air conditioners for an extra hour in the afternoon, since people come home from work an hour earlier in the summer.

    6. Re:Count me in by theCoder · · Score: 2

      DST may have been an energy saver back when most people primarily used electricity for lighting. Now, not so much. Especially in warmer climates closer to the equator (where DST does very little anyway), DST tends to cause more energy usage in the form of residential air conditioners. Also, all those people doing things in those "longer" evenings are probably causing more energy use. In more northern areas, getting up earlier when it is still dark and cold uses more lighting and heating energy. See Wikipedia for details. It's more complicated than what I wrote, but DST generally isn't much of a net win for the environment (nor is it really much of a net loss, either).

      Frankly, if you setup your sleep schedule such that midnight is close to the middle of your sleep cycle, you won't have problems with it getting "dark way too early". Yes, this DOES mean waking up before 7am.

      In reality, DST is a social solution, not a technological one. It's really hard to convince some people to wake up earlier like I just suggested. Kind of like it is hard to convince people to exercise and eat right. DST is simply a way to trick people who want to wake up at 7am to actually get up at 6. It's also why the switch is necessary to make it work. If we stayed on DST all year, then those "night owls" would just start sleeping later. Schools and businesses would start at 9 instead of 8, and people would start complaining that it was getting dark out too "early" because the sun is setting at 10pm and they don't want to go to sleep until 1am. And then we'll need double DST for part of the year.

      Sometimes, it is amazing to me that it is easier to convince everyone to change their clocks to the wrong time instead of changing their schedules. I guess it's like programming -- change the underlying code (the time) rather than every place that uses it (the schedules). But still...

      --
      "Save the whales, feed the hungry, free the mallocs" -- author unknown
    7. Re:Count me in by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      So, you don't travel, do you?

      Not certain what angle you are working Bruce, since no quote. But I've travelled a lot over the years, and have to chuckle at the folks for whom the twice a year shift is an insufferable assault. Typically across 3-4 time zones. The past 5 years or so, it's been across one time zone, but hey - the day/night cycles are all different.

      You simply adapt. Or if I was just on a short duration, I kept my own time zone schedule as much as possible. Just tell me when its time for breakfast, and I'll get by.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  2. But think of the children! by skids · · Score: 3, Informative

    The only source of potential pushback I'm aware on this is parents who don't want their kids waiting for the bus in the dark (that happens with the DST-all-year option) Which they may not realize until after they've lived with it. The standard-time-all-year option ends up with everyone driving hoe from work in the dark more days per year. Let the royal rumble commence.

    We of course could effectively have the DST-all-year solution and stay on standard time if all businesses and government offices changed their hours. Good luck with that.

    1. Re:But think of the children! by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The only source of potential pushback I'm aware on this is parents who don't want their kids waiting for the bus in the dark (that happens with the DST-all-year option)

      That's not nearly enough of a reason to keep playing this twice-a-year circle jerk with the clocks. It's just not.

      Those parents will just have to grit their teeth and stop imagining every bad thing in the world that could possibly happen to their children. Maybe teach them not to stand next to the road in the dark (which they really should already be teaching them).

      Seriously, I don't care what time they pick as long as they pick one and stick to it.

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      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    2. Re:But think of the children! by iggymanz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      so change the time your school starts if it means so much in your district. leave the rest of us out of this mass mental retardation invented to save candle tallow

    3. Re:But think of the children! by Darinbob · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Whether DST results in waiting for the bus in the dark depends on location. Time zone borders are drawn in very strange ways, and sunrise for one person can be over an hour different from another person in the same time zone.

      And in winter when there's no DST, there just aren't enough daylight hours anyway to cover both waiting for the bus going to school or walking home from the bus after school.

    4. Re:But think of the children! by sjames · · Score: 2

      But laws can shift our reckoning of time such that we have the daylight when our schedules are more likely to allow us to enjoy it.

    5. Re:But think of the children! by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Informative

      Those parents will just have to grit their teeth and stop imagining every bad thing in the world that could possibly happen to their children.

      The Seattle Times has a better article regarding the proposed change.

      As that article points out, 'a survey by the National Safety Council of 42 states and the District of Columbia that found daylight saving time had “little or no effect on the number of early-morning traffic fatalities among schoolchildren.”'.

      That article also points out that, here in Washington state, kids are already standing out in the dark waiting for their busses for a short part of the year. If people are that concerned about it, they should convince the schools to change their schedules.

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      #DeleteChrome
    6. Re:But think of the children! by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Interesting

      most juvenile crime was committed after school and before the parents get home.

      Supposedly, that is also when most teenage pregnancies are initiated.

      Start school later: What's the big deal?

    7. Re:But think of the children! by DamonHD · · Score: 2

      People keep saying this as if it were meaningful. Here in London UK daylight length changes between ~8h and ~16h between mid-winter and mid-summer.

      What does fiddling with an hour do other than make work and complexity?

      Our internal clocks remain driven by light, including sunlight.

      Rgds

      Damon

      --
      http://m.earth.org.uk/
    8. Re:But think of the children! by rossdee · · Score: 3, Insightful

      " parents who don't want their kids waiting for the bus in the dark"

      A way around that is to have schools closed in the winter, and open all summer. (instead of them being open all winter and closed in the summer) It would also save the kids from waiting for the bus outside when its -20f (-40f windchill) or having to close schools when thr roads are blocked with snow.

    9. Re:But think of the children! by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 2

      If people are that concerned about it, they should convince the schools to change their schedules.

      Or teach children not to stand next to the road, which parents should be telling their children anyway.

      There is simply no need to screw around with every clock in the entire country twice a year because some parents are too dumb to tell their kids not to stand in the road in the dark.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    10. Re: But think of the children! by sjames · · Score: 2

      Had the clock been on DST in the winter, you would at least have an hour at home before the sun set. Better than the noything you get by falling back.

  3. Re:I was around when the USA did this, it was hell by R.Mo_Robert · · Score: 4, Informative

    I was around the last time the USA got rid of daylight-savings time, in 1973-1975. It was total hell. Children went to school in pitch darkness and bitter cold, and people drove to work in the dark. I can't imagine who would want this again. You get rid of a one-hour change for a much worse difficulty every day for months on end.

    These days, many more working people travel regularly than in 1973, when jet travel was so unreachable for the common man that rich people were called the "jet set". Most working people today deal with much worse than a one-hour change on a regular basis.

    Technically, that was actually year-round Daylight Saving Time, i.e., elimination of standard time, not elimination of DST. But the first link suggests that's also what is proposed here (they technically don't hate DST, just the change--and so-called "standard time," in which we actually now spend less time of the year in than DST--is usually the one people object to). This would indeed make the morning sunrise later with respect to the clock, an issue in winter for many regions of the US, the argument usually being that children would go to school in the dark in the morning (I'm not sure the "going to work" argument would hold up since where I live, it's already dark after work during standard time by late November, so it's either one or the other).

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    R.Mo
  4. Let's move to the real DST by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2

    Daylight Slacker's Time - Fall back an hour in Fall, and Fall back an hour in Spring, too. More sleep twice a year!

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    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  5. Re:I was around when the USA did this, it was hell by dryeo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Depends on where you live, as in latitude and longitude. My Province is wide enough that there is an hour difference between the east and west parts. One part gets screwed either way when sunrise varies by an hour across the time zone.
    Then there's the north where the sun comes up at maybe 10:00 and sets at 2:00 or worse. Doesn't matter where you set the clocks, it's usually dark and cold.
    I'm dreading the next week as I'll be getting up an hour early and love this news as my Premier basically said, "whatever California, Oregon and Washington does, we'll do as we should all be in sync". Feds aren't involved here either. Don't understand why your feds get to say what timezone a State is in.
    There's also a private members bill in the legislature to create a new time zone along the coast, always on DST. Might even pass if the Greens support it.

    --
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  6. Re:I was around when the USA did this, it was hell by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 2

    I was a part-time researcher at a college in Norway for three years. I'd come out in the summer and work for a month or so. There were 2 or three hours of darkness at night. But this was obviously a lot less of a burden than the 9 hour time change every time I flew there and back.

    These days it is not unusual for me to go from California to Europe every month, or at least to another US time zone. You learn jet-lag regimens, how to time your flights, you get the right drugs from your doctor (never Ambien - I think it makes people sleep-drive and kill their children). I wonder if these people complaining about a 1-hour change never even cross the country.

  7. Bad title by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

    They want to keep Daylight Saving Time year-round, not abolish it.

    Previous efforts had been to establish Standard Time year round, but it turns out people prefer that hour of sunlight in the evening rather than the morning.

    And, if the US Congress won’t allow it, the fallback is that Washington State move to Mountain Standard Time year round.

    I live in Washington State, and I support this message. And yes, I was a kid (in Washington State, no less) the last time the US as a whole tried this... and I don’t remember it being problematic for me.

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    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:Bad title by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

      Until they've experienced long mornings without sunlight, and then they'll miss it.

      I can only speak for myself, but - right now, in December and January, I'm going to work in the dark and coming home in the dark (Standard Time sunset in Seattle mid-December: 4:20pm). I wouldn't mind a chance to occasionally see some light as I'm leaving my office... of course, it'll be grey rainy light but whatever.

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      #DeleteChrome
  8. Re:Embrace the Light by Scarletdown · · Score: 2

    I want to cast Magic Missile.

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  9. Re:The reason: Stores did not want to change signs by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

    The original reason for DST: Stores and parks did not want to change the signs that said when they would open

    The park nearest to my house has a sign that says "Closed one hour after sunset".

  10. Re:I was around when the USA did this, it was hell by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

    I'm dreading the next week as I'll be getting up an hour early and love this news as my Premier basically said, "whatever California, Oregon and Washington does, we'll do as we should all be in sync".

    California, Oregon, Washington, and British Columbia should form their own country.

    (I'm a Washington resident, and I'm not sure if I'm joking or not...)

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    #DeleteChrome
  11. Re:I was around when the USA did this, it was hell by Solandri · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I was around the last time the USA got rid of daylight-savings time, in 1973-1975. It was total hell. Children went to school in pitch darkness and bitter cold, and people drove to work in the dark.

    The correct way to fix that is to change what time school and work starts. Not to change everyone's clocks. 7am or 8am may have been pitch darkness where you were. Other places it was fine. The places which are affected by longer night (higher latitudes, further west in the time zone) can simply change the start times for school and business in winter. If you insist on changing the clocks, everyone is affected - even people in areas where the time change offers no benefit and is tremendously inconvenient.

  12. Re:I was around when the USA did this, it was hell by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

    The West shall rise again!

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    #DeleteChrome
  13. The very term Daylight Saving Time shows ignorance by CrankyOldEngineer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Those of us who rise before sunrise (which is most people I know) understand that daylight is not saved. It is robbed from the morning daylight. Only an ignorant Congressman who has never seen a sunrise could possibly call it Daylight *Saving* Time. By the way, DST in the US is so long now that it practically coincides with the school year. If we went back to year-round standard time, any school district that wanted to could simply change their hours. Then nearly everyone could get the schedule that they want. Problem solved!

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    COE
  14. Re:The very term Daylight Saving Time shows ignora by CrankyOldEngineer · · Score: 4, Informative

    You know the purpose of time zones is so that every area has solar noon at around noon on the clock (more or less). If you live in a northern latitude, you get more daylight in the summer, and less in the winter. Big deal. Most people I know get up around 5am, so yeah, if I lived in New York or Chicago, during a month per year the sun would rise before I did. Big f'ing deal. That's better than the semi-annual diruption.

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    COE
  15. Like Clockwork by edbob · · Score: 2

    This issue comes up twice a year, every year, then disappears just as quickly as the sun sets on an arctic day in December. Until there is concerted year-round pressure on congress to change it, this issue will continue to come up twice a year every year.