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'Angry Birds' Developer Rovio Seeks Backers For 5G 'Netflix of Games' Service (dailyherald.com)

Posted by EditorDavid on from the flying-through-the-cloud dept.

"The next success for the company behind Angry Birds could be twofold: convincing the U.S. public they should buy a 5G mobile phone from Sprint Corp., and developing the world's biggest video game streaming platform in the process," reports Bloomberg: Rovio Entertainment is in talks with "several" investors to take a stake in its subsidiary Hatch -- a "Netflix for games" platform that Sprint will use to showcase what its high-speed 5G handsets can do when it opens its new network in May. But Rovio Chief Executive Officer Kati Levoranta also needs new investors to buy into her vision for three-year-old Hatch, on which Rovio has already spent about 17 million euros ($19 million), to help it build up its library of games from developers such as Ubisoft and Sega.

"The Hatch service is brilliant for use with 5G, and many of our strategic partners are looking for services that demonstrate how 5G works and the benefits it brings," Levoranta said in an interview at the company's seaside headquarters in Espoo, Finland.... "5G is a big opportunity for us," Vesa Jutila, co-founder and chief commercial officer of Hatch Entertainment Oy, said in an interview. "Everyone seems to think cloud gaming is the way to tell the 5G story to consumers."

The app offers a portfolio of pre-vetted games to consumers, streamed to their handsets via a monthly subscription. Once the initial account is set up, mobile games can be played straight from the cloud, without needing to be downloaded or installed. The advent of high speed, low latency 5G networks makes the model all the more attractive to carriers looking to sell their latest services.

46 comments

  1. Data caps by Calydor · · Score: 1

    What kind of data caps will we be seeing on 5G networks? How quickly will it be (would it have been) better to download and install than stream?

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    -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    1. Re:Data caps by tepples · · Score: 1

      What kind of data caps will we be seeing on 5G networks? How quickly will it be (would it have been) better to download and install than stream?

      Let's assume for a moment that 5G pricing tiers will resemble those of 4G. The major U.S. carriers offer "unlimited", with about 30 GB per month of high-speed priority data, so long as the packets are sent or received by an application running on the phone. Packets sent or received by an application running on a different device connected through the phone's "mobile hotspot" or "USB tethering" feature are subject to a separate 10 GB per month quota, with overages on the order of $10 per GB for exceeding this. (Carriers' way of detecting fee evasion include TTL/hop count field, SNI domains of OS update services, and User-agent on cleartext HTTP sites.)

      So one advantage of streaming is playing titles not ported to your phone. For example, an Android device can play a game that's released only for Windows or only for Windows and iOS. Downloading such a game to a Windows PC would eat into the 10 GB of monthly hotspot data. (For the moment, I'm ignoring input mismatches for games that heavily use a keyboard or joystick.)

    2. Re:Data caps by NettiWelho · · Score: 1

      What kind of data caps will we be seeing on 5G networks?

      Assuming you live in a 1st world country, I'd imagine none at all.

    3. Re:Data caps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sick burn dude. By implying America is a 3rd world shithole, you really owned those amerimutts.
      I'm subscribing to your newsletter.

    4. Re:Data caps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm pretty sure your parent is saying that most of the world doesn't have caps (first world or otherwise). I don't know this, but I do know Murica is behind that curve due to lack of competition. And your reply suggests you also don't know the ratio of countries without caps.

    5. Re: Data caps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No No No... Hell no

    6. Re: Data caps by zozo22 · · Score: 1

      separate 10 GB per month quota, with overages on the order of $10 per GB for exceeding this. (Carriers' way of detecting fee evasion include TTL/hop count field, SNI domains of OS update services, and User-agent on cleartext HTTP sites.) https://xender.pro/ https://discord.software/ https://omegle.onl/

  2. You've had 45 minutes of fame. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Rovio, you ruined your goodwill by turning your fun game with a little advertising into a "YOU MUST PAY TO WIN" style game. Angry Birds is done, and so is Rovio.

    1. Re: You've had 45 minutes of fame. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's time to turn it into an Angry N1gger Birds, and back in business.

  3. Delay by batukhan · · Score: 1

    As much as I await the promised low latency 5G, i do not believe it will enough for gaming. Games today already have about 100ms delay between controller and action on screen. Bluetooth controllers and whole stacks for HID devices etc all adds up. It's already near unacceptable. You put cloud between that, it's not gonna work. Home fiber already gets 1-6ms ping times, yet we don't see massive streaming happening. And a lot of companies have tried. Maybe if they did a complete end to end overhaul, from game - device - network - servers and back.

    1. Re:Delay by Anonymice · · Score: 1

      Mobile games are hardly known for their lightening fast reaction times, especially the light-hearted all-ages type games that Rovio produces. And taking the heavy duty computing to the cloud, leaving the handheld as little more than a video decoder, could even provide a far more consistent gaming experience across devices.

      It's the one platform I could actually see streaming games work well on in the near future.

    2. Re:Delay by ffkom · · Score: 2

      Well "light-hearted all-ages type games that Rovio produces" would not require any streaming from some remote server, anyway. Mobile devices are powerful enough to run them locally.

    3. Re:Delay by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      I've seen plenty of people playing PUBG on mobile on the train, so I am not really sure what they can add with 5G.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    4. Re:Delay by Calydor · · Score: 1

      100 ms input latency? Are you SURE about that number? I seem to recall old consoles like the NES and SNES had something like 16 ms latency, how did things get worse by almost an order of magnitude?

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      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    5. Re:Delay by sanf780 · · Score: 2
      It all depends on the definition of input latency. The concept here is how much time it takes for a button press to show in image. 16ms equals 60Hz updates. Let me ignore the actual controller action to game logic latency. Most console games aim for 33ms updates. Add on top of that double or triple buffering or any modern sort of VSync. Add to that that most TVs include some postprocessing pipeline that takes around 100ms when you do not have game mode on.

      As a side note, I remember Forza Motorsport 1 or 2 claiming their game code updated at 300Hz or so even if the render path was running at the slower 60Hz. The thing is, you cannot tell how much time it took for the game logic to show on your screen.

    6. Re:Delay by Anonymice · · Score: 1

      But you have to download & install each & every one. Streaming is just easier, and comes with none of the baggage. Netflix beat out Blockbuster for the same reasons.

      I'm far more adventurous & consume more on Netflix than I ever did at Blockbuster.
      It'd probably be the same story with gaming, if I had a huge library of games within a second's reach..

    7. Re:Delay by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "Add to that that most TVs include some postprocessing pipeline that takes around 100ms when you do not have game mode on."

      That would effectively drop the framerate to 10FPS which would be hugely fuckign detectable.

      So, NO.

      Also, I used to work as an LCD/(O)LED screen repair tech, so I'm just going to say you're full of shit. The latency in-monitor on the TCON and traces going to the screen is on the order of microseconds. The real lag-factor is the OS that your game hardware runs.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    8. Re: Delay by batukhan · · Score: 2

      He's talking about interpolation and it does not slow things down, just adds another delay. We're talking about delay here, not throughput

    9. Re: Delay by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Games are certainly a less helpful case(tighter latency demands, heavier GPU requirements on the server side, no corporate-IT-likes-the-centralization bonus); but much of the trouble seems to be the same sort of licensing/pricing issues that have dogged Terminal Services stuff since forever.

      Given what mobile games just don't cost (with the limited exception of mostly iPad ports of PC games, which still tend to be cheaper than the PC version but not 99cents+microtransactions) and how little back catalog PC and used console titles go for the amount someone would be willing to pay for any streaming service that doesn't have new releases more or less at release isn't very high. If you want the new stuff, though, you need to find a way to get companies expecting to sell Call of FIFA 20XX++ for $60($100+ for deluxe pre-order premium edition) on board with accepting a slice of what you have left out of the monthly subscription fee, after paying for infrastructure and keeping your own lights on.

      That's where the 'Netflix' example is fairly optimistic: nobody expected Netflix to get them access to still-in-theatres big budget movies as well as back catalog DVD rentals on nicer terms than Blockbuster, so setting up a DVD rental by mail service that gradually morphed into a streaming entity was viable(it also helps that, while a video rental outfit and a studio can come to a special licensing agreement if they wish, if nothing else the rental outfit can always just buy retail copies and rent those, so license fights can't scuttle selection; software licenses are less helpful, especially if you need technical assistance to reduce cost(ie. reasonably efficient multi-user streaming setups vs. just slapping capture cards and custom input devices on unmodified consoles.)

      Some of the services we've seen trialed(or offered for a bit before their deaths) actually work surprisingly well, better than I would have expected; but it's never clear how they are supposed to square the circle on prices: the netlfix-style "OMG unlimited back catalog!" offering is something that's generally pretty cheap just to buy one game at a time as it suits you(and if a game is unobtanium in Steam or GoG that probably means that it's in rights clearance hell that will keep you from streaming it legally), so willingness to pay for that is tepid; while a "all the newest games!" offering is what people would probably actually want; but also what publishers would want to be paid relatively well for and what would cost the most to run, so the service would probably start looking more like your cable bill than like Netflix.

      Doesn't help, for something like a Rovio/Sprint alliance, that there are already entities much more logically placed already nibbling at the idea(Microsoft has their 'games with gold' subscription bundle thing, Sony has a similar one; both already have substantial publisher relationships, large hardware install bases; and, if streaming games on phones is such a thing, could fairly easily kick out a phone client and a "stream any game you've bought for Xbox/PlayStation when you are on the go!" tied to existing accounts and such. Not seeing Rovio's relevance here.

  4. This is the Nth game streaming platform I've read by AmazingRuss · · Score: 1

    ... about. Are any of them actually getting used to play games much?

  5. Rovio? by mentil · · Score: 1

    Rovio's way too small to be able to pull this off. Much bigger companies like Google are preparing to roll out the exact same thing, and are better-positioned to succeed. 5G will also make it much faster to download games; I'd much rather download that 200MB game than effectively stream a video of it, if I'm going to be playing it for more than an hour it'll take less data.

    --
    Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    1. Re: Rovio? by batukhan · · Score: 1

      It's definitely going to get net-neutrality flavored special treatment

  6. What's an ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Angry Bird?

    Is that like an ill eagle?

    1. Re:What's an ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've got a throbbin' robin.

  7. We will see the same traffic prices as before by ffkom · · Score: 2

    ... because the mobile carriers already complain how expensive the 5G build-out will be, and they will certainly aim at increasing their profit margins, not lowering them.

    The idea to stream games to mobile devices is dead on arrival due to the volume prices that haven't really changed for years - not with "3G", not with "4G". Streaming a 60fps 1080p action game will cost so much traffic that this is not going to fly.

  8. Go talk to girls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Live life a little.

    1. Re: Go talk to girls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just not rovios girls

    2. Re:Go talk to girls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +5 insightful.

  9. Wifi vs 5G latency by enriquevagu · · Score: 1

    The article argues that the low latency of 5G networks allows for streaming of games. This model computes and renders in the data center, and streams the video back to the client. Low latency is required to avoid lag.

    In my case, most of the time I connect to WiFi networks. Latency on WiFi is typically very low. Speed is fast and most variability comes from MAC and retransmission due to collisions. Current WiFi generations rely on distributed medium access control protocols, but their delay is very low (some parameters, such as DIFS and SIFS, are in the range of tens of us). Forthcoming WiFi 6 will employ a centralised medium access control mechanism (managed by the AP, similar to current LTE designs). The connection to the ISP after the WiFi network (often, DocSIS or GPON when using home connections) also presents a very high speed and low variability due to MAC). Latency IS low nowadays, before 5G.

    But these types of services (game streaming, remote surgery, ...) are being announced these days related to 5G.

    Serious question: is there something in 5G technology that makes its latency inherently lower than current (and forthcoming) WiFi networks connected to wired broadband? I have not found actual data, other than marketing hype.

    Thanks in advance for any answer!

    1. Re:Wifi vs 5G latency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are tricks to mitigate latency. Server hosting the game could begin triggering an optimum control input until user's actual inputs are received. And I remember playing FPS on dialup modem and constantly winning against ISDN users.

    2. Re: Wifi vs 5G latency by enriquevagu · · Score: 1

      Thanks, but these tricks are orthogonal to network technology. They work the same on ADSL or 3G, isn't it?

      My question is about the actual values of WiFi Vs 5G, not means to mitigate such latency.

    3. Re:Wifi vs 5G latency by Calydor · · Score: 2

      I think the main idea is that you can stream the game while sitting in a bus, at a train station, etc. - away from your low latence WiFi network.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    4. Re:Wifi vs 5G latency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's called netcode and it is usually crap when higher latencies get involved, because it leads to everyone playing what is practically a different game on their local machines. In certain circles it's even considered to be cheating if you play with high latencies and you might be accused of lag switching. You may be kicked off the servers or won't even be allowed to join in the first place.
      So no, this does not mitigate latency at all. If anything it creates the need for your local machine to extrapolate what might happen next, which requires quite a bit of local resources because these things have to be dynamically rendered in your low latency system. And that is exactly what cloud gaming is trying to avoid.

  10. Re:This is the Nth game streaming platform I've re by sanf780 · · Score: 1
    Some of them already flopped. Sony is still insisting on Playstation Now and the PS4 allows you have somebody else to play the game you are playing through the internet. Steam, Playstation and Xbox allow to stream inside your local network and from what I gather it is OK.

    I do not get how Rovio can make remote gaming work over a mobile network that is used by mobile phones. Heck, most console games expect you to have a large TV so reading text might become a challenge.

  11. Re:This is the Nth game streaming platform I've re by AmazingRuss · · Score: 1

    Just seems so wasteful... they don't need high end graphics for their games. They run fine on pretty much any phone.

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  13. Sprint? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Convincing people to buy a 5G phone from a carrier that will be folding before the contract ends -- I can't tell if that will be hard or easy.

  14. SSSSprint. by moonracer · · Score: 1

    Sprint?? He said SPRINT! Hahahah. All you can eat buffet through a straw.

  15. Just put Angry Birds back on Windows by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

    How about you just put Angry Birds back on Windows instead of coming up with yet another game service?

  16. Rovio is not just ignorant millennials, wtf? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    So, this has been done before. Many times. Didn’t Napster try to pivot to it a few years ago? Redbox does it (maybe not streaming). Steam is essentially this (maybe not mobile).

    If I thought that Rovio were a bunch of ignorant millennial upstarts, I might blame this move on sheer stupidity or failure to understand the market.

    But Rovio came from Future Crew and those guys are (a) amazing and (b) have been in the game long enough to know everybody and everything.

    Maybe some MBA got involved at a late stage The the adult have all left the company? I really don’t understand this move. Way more risky than kicking out another branded bird-thrower for kids and cashing in on a game that was essentially complete 10 years ago.

    1. Re:Rovio is not just ignorant millennials, wtf? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know Remedy Entertainment is / was connected to the Future Crew, but is Rovio also? Not that they're a new studio, by any means. But I think Rovio has been focused on mobile from the get-go, and I wouldn't put this kind of errands past them. I'm not saying that they don't work hard, but imo they kinda got lucky with Angry Birds, and have been milking it for everything it's worth.

  17. Obvious cash-out by reanjr · · Score: 1

    Investors are trying to cash out with some money from bigger fools. As a busiess model "streaming gaming" is right up there Cryptocurrency AI.

  18. failure + meh = win? by ConfusedVorlon · · Score: 1

    Failing games streaming company teams up with network offering uninspiring phone technology. They both say the combination will be AMAZING!

    --
    VLC Remote for iPhone and Android
  19. Anyone heard of Kongregate? by barius · · Score: 1

    I don't need a 5G Steam but they'll do it anyways I'm sure, and Kongregate is perfect for the smaller "streaming" style games I like to play. Not sure where Hatch is supposed to be positioned to compete tbh.

  20. aww hell naw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's a bad idea. Latency

    Anyone who games knows that 100ms ping is tolerable, 300ms affects the game, and anything above 600ms makes the game basically unplayable.
    Wired going to a CDN node point on most games an effective minimum of 50 ms.

    This means that now, instead of going from machine to server to back, you're going from input transmission (+8ms per keystroke now, if TCP) machine - game host - server - game host - encoder - machine for a single operation. Add in a point of latency in each step and it adds up quick.

    Even my personal experience with streaming from a box in my friggin basement over a CAT6 gigabit connection with virtually no network traffic was lack-luster (0.2ms latency for those curious, the 5G spec allows for 4ms). 70% of the time, it worked fine with now problems, but then the transcoder needed to eat up more clock cycles. Imagine, now playing a game where 30% of your game time was laggy. Does it matter, now, if it's cheaper or not when someone who buys a 2-year-old laptop can choose crappy settings and have a 95%-smooth experience?