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America's Latest Effort To Thwart the Growth of China's Huawei is Playing Out Beneath the World's Oceans (wsj.com)
A new front has opened in the battle between the U.S. and China over control of global networks that deliver the internet. This one is beneath the ocean. [Editor's note: the link may be paywalled; syndicated source.] From a report: While the U.S. wages a high-profile campaign to exclude China's Huawei from next-generation mobile networks over fears of espionage, the company is embedding itself into undersea cable networks that ferry nearly all of the world's internet data. About 380 active submarine cables -- bundles of fiber-optic lines that travel oceans on the seabed -- carry about 95% of intercontinental voice and data traffic, making them critical for the economies and national security of most countries. Current and former security officials in the U.S. and allied governments now worry that these cables are increasingly vulnerable to espionage or attack and say the involvement of Huawei potentially enhances China's capabilities.
Huawei denies any threat. The U.S. hasn't publicly provided evidence of its claims that Huawei technology poses a cybersecurity risk. Its efforts to persuade other countries to sideline the company's communication technology have been met with skepticism by some. Huawei Marine Networks, majority owned by the Chinese telecom giant, completed a 3,750-mile cable between Brazil and Cameroon in September. It recently started work on a 7,500-mile cable connecting Europe, Asia and Africa and is finishing up links across the Gulf of California in Mexico. Altogether, the company has worked on some 90 projects to build or upgrade seabed fiber-optic links, gaining fast on the three U.S., European and Japanese firms that dominate the industry. These officials say the company's knowledge of and access to undersea cables could allow China to attach devices that divert or monitor data traffic -- or, in a conflict, to sever links to entire nations.
Huawei denies any threat. The U.S. hasn't publicly provided evidence of its claims that Huawei technology poses a cybersecurity risk. Its efforts to persuade other countries to sideline the company's communication technology have been met with skepticism by some. Huawei Marine Networks, majority owned by the Chinese telecom giant, completed a 3,750-mile cable between Brazil and Cameroon in September. It recently started work on a 7,500-mile cable connecting Europe, Asia and Africa and is finishing up links across the Gulf of California in Mexico. Altogether, the company has worked on some 90 projects to build or upgrade seabed fiber-optic links, gaining fast on the three U.S., European and Japanese firms that dominate the industry. These officials say the company's knowledge of and access to undersea cables could allow China to attach devices that divert or monitor data traffic -- or, in a conflict, to sever links to entire nations.
So? Is Huawei a black pot or a black kettle?
Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
Current threats: US government, Google, Facebook, Huawei (but no evidence)
Previous threats: US government, USSR
This seems like how we knew that Saddam used to have WMDs, we sold them to him, and we kept the receipts. Of course, since we knew how old they were, we also knew he didn't have them any more.
The only nations we know have actually tampered with undersea cables are the US and Russia, so I guess we know conclusively that China could do it because we've done it.
With that said, yes, it's a credible threat. And yes, Huawei probably could bring something to the table in that regard. But so what? That only means that China has come along to a party which was already swingin'.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
NYTimes had a pretty interesting technology article about the undersea "cloud" three days ago. https://www.nytimes.com/intera...
Gently reply
https://www.networkworld.com/article/2223272/60-minutes-torpedoes-huawei-in-less-than-15-minutes.html
They are as believable as claims of god's appearance to a religious leader.
cables are increasingly vulnerable to espionage or attack
You NEVER trust the middlemen.
E2EE with trusted endpoints is the only answer.
That is the reason you do not give away control of your endpoints. Which is exactly what people have been doing of course, not stopping to consider.
Don't matter if it's Huawei, the NSA, or Google. Don't let middlemen snoop!
Was all the Huawei shit getting replaced.
How about slashdot stop supporting "may be" paywalled sites, and find sources that are open and also likely to be around for a good bit?
and now accusing China of trying? doing? It doesnt' matter, there's no evidence as usual, just accusations and FUD. Every day I see these bullshit accusations by the flippant and panicking USA, I trust that whole country, their government, their services, their products, less and less.
If they were to spend less time attacking and accusing the whole world for stupid shit they're doing themselves, maybe people would start listening to them again.
"...Current and former security officials in the U.S. and allied governments now worry that these cables are increasingly vulnerable to espionage or attack ..." ...by OTHER people.
I know US submariners that have talked vaguely about high tech cable-tapping missions since the 1990s.
So it's not so much a "OMG they're vulnerable" as "crap those guys can perhaps do it now too" thing.
-Styopa
The United States is worried that China is doing in 2019 what the USA did starting in the 1960s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
If you will follow the money it will be from the companies who lost out on contracts to Huawei, so now they spread FUD.
Look, this whole Huawei is selling equipment that can be used to spy would be very simply solved if the U.S. would show some proof. If they can't do that then they are either lying, aren't technologically able too or haven't been able too because Huawei can come straight back with U.S. equipment and show how it is being used to spy. Since 9/11 the U.S. has been a political disaster on the world stage and they just aren't trusted anymore. Not even by their allies.
I reserve the write to mangle english.
Claiming "you don't have to like" when nobody has said what the like or do not is irrelevant. You're utterly pandering US propaganda and the bullshit done because capitalism cannot handle competition, even in capitalism.
The point was mentioned because YOU are a moron. The OP already said he had them, shithead. The fact is that WE SOLD THEM TO HIM. That is how we knew he once had them. We ALSO knew that he no longer DID have them. You're a brainless thug for idiocracy USA.
So.. if you're correct (and you are) that pretty much agrees that China's communist party is likely to engage (and has done so for years) in similar activities, and that it's a genuine threat to infosec. So you agree, Huawei can't be trusted.
Also, the information gathered up in echelon wasn't corporate trade secret stuff that was then given to a foreign competitor, like China's Huawei did many times. So the equivocation ends there.
that the USA is a CURRENT threat, not potential, and that claiming this threat is a non-issue nothing burger. Since we all agree that the USA CURRENTLY does this, and yet we still run networks using these hacked and spied on connections, there's no need to not buy Huwei stuff. There is no additional risk. And there is a potential that there's less.
Confirm the claims and all you have is that there's only a choice of whether we let China or the USA spy on us, so no real reason for people to stop buying from China: china hasn't black bagged people from foreign countries. Meaning China is still a better security bet. Just not a secure one.
However you have fuck all other than accusation as your "evidence". If say so is evidence, then Huwei say they don't, so proof as good as yours that they don't spy on anyone.
You don't have to LIKE the fact that the Communist Party owns and operates Huawei and makes them do their bidding, it's just a fact. Your head being wedged up your cavernous asshole is an unrelated fact. Sorry, snowflake.
You're not changing the facts by not liking them, snowflake. Huawei = Communist Party owned and operated. Fact.
Deal with it bitch, ya burnt.
You don't have to LIKE the fact that the Communist Party owns and operates Huawei and makes them do their bidding, it's just a fact. Your head being wedged up your cavernous asshole is an unrelated fact. Sorry, snowflake.
You're not changing the facts by not liking them, snowflake. Huawei = Communist Party owned and operated. Fact.
Deal with it bitch, ya burnt.
Until you learn what the fuck you're doing and approach it as a human rather than a twatfeatured troll, we don't have to admit shit about Huwei, YOU have admitted that the USA is worse.
Huawei HAS done some of them already. https://www.networkworld.com/article/2223272/60-minutes-torpedoes-huawei-in-less-than-15-minutes.html
Just like the Republicans view of Democrats, the U.S. intelligence agencies are thinking, "We're wiretapping all the undersea cables, so obviously the Chinese will too if they get the chance!"
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
^^ Found the Chi-Com apologist. Sorry you don't like the fact that Huawei has been caught a dozen or so times thieving and spying, aww. It doesn't change the fact though, sorry bitch. Tissue, Meng?
"if the U.S. would show some proof. " - You mean like charge the CFO with a crime and put her on trial, with evidence? Yeah, they are doing that.
And then there's these dozen-or-so times... https://www.networkworld.com/article/2223272/60-minutes-torpedoes-huawei-in-less-than-15-minutes.html
Perhaps ask the Africa Union their opinion:
China’s government has denied reports that it spied on the servers at the African Union’s Chinese-built headquarters for more than five years, gaining access to confidential information.
* https://qz.com/africa/1192493/china-spied-on-african-union-headquarters-for-five-years/
China has dismissed reports it bugged the African Union (AU) headquarters as "preposterous".
* https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-42861276
So that clearly is not an argument to stop giving out that evidence. And the current orange shitgibbon blurts out top secret info in a public resturaunt, FFS
Moreover, the claim "We can't show you, that would endanger someone's life!" was used to hide the lie about WMDs in Iraq.
You've lied multiple times and your excuse neither works nor held up before.
"These officials say the company's knowledge of and access to undersea cables could allow China to attach devices that divert or monitor data traffic -- or, in a conflict, to sever links to entire nations" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... you know in the past 2 years it has been ... funny(?) to see the US accuse Huawei and china to prepare to do, or do, what they themselves did in the past.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
US declares Huawei as failed company and presents the case on Better Business Bureau for the replacement of its leadership. The government hires a former general to do it.
... the whole leverage that the US had on the EU and especially its key player, Germany.
The EU always played along. Even when it came out that Merkel's phone was tapped, and everybody's spying agency was a serf to the US.
But the last days, we saw, for the first time in my lifetime, that German officials told the USA straight up, the equivalent of "No. Fuck off."
People on the streets in Germany already haven't exactly been pro-USA for a few years now, especially since the NSA leaks. But officials always crawled up US asses.
Now, with Trump being such an incompetent dick and a joke on international levels (betraying even his supporters), we knew it might happen. And now, with that Huawei thing, he simply goes too far. It won't anymore. China and Russia are quite strong, and the EU is strong on its own too., but has been too much of a pussy to do it alone.
What we're seeing now, is the first kid on the schoolyard standing up to the bully, and going "NO."
If Trump doesn't stop... *now*... he'll have done it.
And of course we know Trump. He's gonna double down. Which won't work anymore. He's gonna double down again. Helplessly going down the spiral of ending the era of the USA being the dominant superpower.
People in Germany still wish you luck though. Let's hope he doesn't take all of you with him down the drain. Remember: It's your country. You're very likely more competent that your current president. So you do what you like with it. No hard feelings.
"You're very likely more competent that your current president" - Idiot, lol. You have no idea what you're talking about and your childish vernacular belies a child's mind. Trump doesn't have anything to do with this, he's a moron.
Stop emulating him.
It's good to see you dumbass 'merkins repeating your historic mistakes. Make McCarthyism Great Again. Better Dead Than Red (Chinese).
Its not /.'s job to do the submitters work for them. blame the submitter for providing shit links. or better yet, YOU find better links, and improve the post with them instead of crying like a self-entitled child.
Actually, Saddam did have chemical weapons. WMD's. Yes, he did.
Please see the section entitled "Western help with Iraq's WMD program" and "Post-war discoveries and incidents":
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction
Also:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms-to-Iraq
Basically everything was from the Iran-Iraq war, in which case the US/UK helped to make them in the first place.
The ugly head of Envy rises again.
The US invented a clever (and super-secret) technique during the Cold War. This was to spy on the Soviet Union. They used a "cradle" to implement the tapping system. The cradle only passively held the cable from the bottom; it never pierced the cable, nor did it restrict movement of the cable up and down.
Why? Well undersea communications cables are not-uncommonly raised to the surface for maintenance and troubleshooting. The US wanted a system that could not be detected when this routine maintenance was happening. Even a full cable replacement would, if the spooks were lucky, drop right back into the cradle and surveillance would continue uninterrupted. And this system worked!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ivy_Bells
https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/security/a25857/operation-ivy-bells-underwater-wiretapping/
Google "Operation Ivy Bells" for more.
You're not changing the facts by not liking them, snowflake. Huawei = Communist Party owned and operated. Fact.
it would appear you do not understand the meaning of the word "fact"
FACT - "A thing that is known or proved to be true."
you posting something over and over agian and stating it is a "fact" doesnt make it one.
Prove it is a fact... we will wait.
You don't have to LIKE the fact that the US governemnt owns and operates CISCO and makes them do their bidding, it's just a fact. Your head being wedged up your cavernous asshole is an unrelated fact. Sorry, snowflake.
Although undersea cables could offer shorter data paths and lower latency than even mid-orbit satellite, using our new low-cost access to orbit to set up a large constellation would be a valuable hedge against loss of cable access.
I don't disagree with what you say, but you better hope it never actually happens.
See, someone like Trump is going to lash out like a frustrated child and try to prove how special and important he is ... shockingly not unlike Kim Jong-Un in that regard ... petty tyrants with huge egos will pretty much react in the same way.
An unhinged POTUS who figures out that no, they're not laughing with him ... that's actually a dangerous power on the world stage.
Sadly, the segment of America who thinks he can do no wrong will follow him off that cliff with their little neo-nazi salutes and red MAGA hats ... Trump is in it for the adoration, and if that fades, I worry about what he would do.
This is a red herring in that so what if the pathway for your data and communications is secured for 99% of its path? In the end if there is a single point of contact that is vulnerable you lose. Besides, 5G and all wireless is tracking everyone's movements and can easily pass this information along with phone conversations that either go through the cell or can be received. While it isn't a bad idea what is happening it is not in any means a 'safeguard' against the one-eyed commie Chinese.
I though that we were a capitalist country and government should let free unregulated markets blah blah blah... whatever blah blah blah, turns now that companies need regulating or hindering others... so much free capitalist spirit blah blah blah.
The only nations we know have actually tampered with undersea cables are the US and Russia, so I guess we know conclusively that China could do it because we've done it.
Have Huawei's products killed anybody??
Boeing 737 Max 8 has. 336 people to be exact.
Boeing is an American company, and its products have murdered 336 innocent people.
Huawei is a Chinese company, and its products have yet to killed.
After Boeing's 737 Max 8 killed 336 people, guess what happened? THE USA GOVERNMENT STILL CLAIMED THAT THE PLANE WAS SAFE and that the two 737 Max 8 that crashed was due to PILOT ERROR !
Yes, my dear Sir, America is a such a wonderful country which lies and lies !!!
Repeating lies often enough turns them info truths in his playbook.
And you're not making facts because you do like them.
Facts are funny like that. Not as funny as your constant trolling though.
Holy crap. Way to miss that this is an international site. Don't read too much into weird wordings.
oops...
https://gearburn.com/2018/01/u... They still didn't find anything.
America is just worried that if everyone changes over to someone else, they will have to go back and tap everything again. Cheaper to go the fud route.
Thanks Anon, I just read half of that transcript and it is the same thing again. No proof given but does include stuff like,
"The state tells them what to do, and they do it. There is no hard evidence that's happened with Huawei, but the Obama administration has been unwilling to take the risk. "
That's about as handy as me saying they didn't do it because of this. Awww, look at his little face.....You obviously don't get what I mean by proof. If you want me to believe the U.S. Intelligence services then get them to roll out someone who does know what they are talking about with documented proof of how to control Huawei equipment.
I reserve the write to mangle english.
These things, like everything, is only bad if China does it.
--
WindBourne