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Tesla's New Model Y SUV Hits the Right Note By Playing It Safe (usatoday.com)
Last night, Tesla CEO Elon Musk unveiled the company's brand new electric SUV, the Model Y. The car is only slightly larger than the Model 3 and shares 75% of its parts, leaving many people wanting more. But, as USA Today reports, "The ho-hum reaction to Tesla's new electric SUV is, oddly enough, exactly what the company needs. [F]or a company that needs a little less pizzazz and a little more substance to make good on its promise to become a sustainable force in the auto industry, the Model Y hit the right marks." From the report: It's essentially a crossover version of the Tesla Model 3 compact car, bearing the design hallmarks of a hatchback and sharing the same architectural platform as its car sibling. That Tesla devotees weren't rewarded with sizzling new features on the Model Y illustrates that the company is getting serious about selling vehicles. After all, a compact SUV is precisely what Americans want: a driveable vehicle that puts safety first and flash second. Versions with five and seven seats will be available, with starting prices ranging from $39,000 for the base version to $60,000 for a performance model. If Musk had tried to break new technological barriers or adopt outlandish styling on the Model Y, he would have risked making the vehicle too difficult to manufacture and unappealing to conventional SUV buyers.
The first-available model will start at $47,000 and arrive in fall 2020. You can place a refundable deposit of $2,500 to secure your place in line when the vehicle becomes available. The base model of the Model Y -- the $39,000 version -- won't be available until "sometime in 2021," Musk said. Families can make the Model Y their primary vehicle since the battery range goes from 230 miles to 300 miles depending on the version. That stacks up well against other EVs on the market, such as the Chevrolet Bolt's 238 and the Hyundai Kona's 258. And while techies might not find the Model Y exhilarating, it will come equipped with software and sensors capable of autonomous driving, whenever it becomes legal. But buyers will have to pay for the system upgrade of $3,000 to $5,000.
The first-available model will start at $47,000 and arrive in fall 2020. You can place a refundable deposit of $2,500 to secure your place in line when the vehicle becomes available. The base model of the Model Y -- the $39,000 version -- won't be available until "sometime in 2021," Musk said. Families can make the Model Y their primary vehicle since the battery range goes from 230 miles to 300 miles depending on the version. That stacks up well against other EVs on the market, such as the Chevrolet Bolt's 238 and the Hyundai Kona's 258. And while techies might not find the Model Y exhilarating, it will come equipped with software and sensors capable of autonomous driving, whenever it becomes legal. But buyers will have to pay for the system upgrade of $3,000 to $5,000.
I'm not a fan of the curved roof and rear door. Would have been much better as a hatchback.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Ditching that would mean about 25% less highway range, 25% longer charge times on road trips, and 80% the battery lifespan. Not worth the tradeoff.
It is a hatchback. Including a power liftgate.
If I ever become wealthy and mad, I'll leave Companion Cubes on desert islands for shipwreck survivors.
It's not "built" anywhere. Rivian is a startup.
Building a cost-effective mass production system is a hundred times more difficult than building a prototype or two and making some sleek marketing videos. Only one startup has succeeded at it in the US since Chrysler in 1925, and that's Tesla. Many have tried. All but one have failed.
To be fair, Model Y isn't in mass production yet either. But it's certainly closer, not simply due to how many people have been working on it for how long, but in particular because it shares 76% of its hardware with the Model 3, which is already in mass production.
If I ever become wealthy and mad, I'll leave Companion Cubes on desert islands for shipwreck survivors.
I also like the sound of the Rivian.
However, it is (A) somewhat expensive, (B) the company has no track record yet producing anything, and (C) not sure it will offer a self-driving option.
The Rivian looks way more properly built for offload use than the Y though, for sure. And 400 miles range is great (assuming it really gets that range). I especially like the suspension...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The first-available model will start at $47,000 and arrive in fall 2020. You can place a refundable deposit of $2,500 to secure your place in line when the vehicle becomes available. The base model of the Model Y -- the $39,000 version -- won't be available until "sometime in 2021," Musk said.
Based on Tesla's track record, that means the first-available $47,000 model will arrive in Spring 2021, while the based $39,000 version won't be available until sometime in late 2021 or early 2022.
This is the form factor I wanted - a taller Model 3 with a hatchback. However just like the Model 3, it has no dash, most controls are menus on the screen, unintuitive door handles, too pricey and only manufacturing the more expensive models first, got to wait another 1.5 - 2 years.
I was excited to see the Model 3 on the road initially, but now I am sick of seeing them. They could have at least tried to given the Model Y some unique design styling.
In 2020, there will be much more competition in the electric vehicle market. I'd prefer a charging port mounted around the front of the vehicle, no tracking, and an actual real dash with controls + a big screen. We'll see.
What I see looks more like a VW Beetle knockoff.
You'd have to be a complete idiot to believe this at this point.
So do you have a real reason for saying that?
There's no reason to think Tesla cannot deliver full self driving at some point in the future. They are basically already for a lot of simple cases. so what leads you to conclude it's not possible for them to evolve what they have until it handles pretty much any case?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Rivian will do very well, and despite being Tesla shareholder, if I ever wanted to own a car I would likely go that route. I am skeptical as to when Rivian will hit mass production, but they are led by a sharp CEO that has built a great team.
At the same time, most of the market isn’t after an off-road vehicle— their most likely aspirations are to be able to get up a hill in the snow. The Model Y is well situated to serve that market.
Why do right-wingers always root against Tesla?
I can no longer watch youtube with an ad-blocker on. But youtube-dl still works, so I just download everything before I watch it. What a bunch of tools.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Velodyne promised $50 (in quantity) LIDAR back in 2017, they've since been to CES this year (in January) and showed off three new LIDAR products, but AFAICT they've made no public word on pricing. One of those products is a low-end device only suited to driver assistance, which is the only one of the three that could plausibly be that inexpensive, so that doesn't really fit the bill. And there's no sign it will happen this year.
Do you really believe that they will make a retrofit, years later?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=39836&id=40585
Model 3 MPGe: 123
Kona: 108
123 / 108 = 14% difference... on top of the fact that Kona is also a smaller vehicle (if you disagree, you've clearly either never been inside a Model 3, been inside a Kona, or both; Kona's rear seat in particular is tiny). Leaf is closer, though still smaller in most internal passenger space measurements. It gets 97 MPGe highway, aka 27% more energy than the Model 3.
I'll repeat: Aerodynamics is done for a reason. It makes a big difference in range, charge times, and cycle life.
(Oh, and a note for the above: The average speed for said "highway" cycle is only about 55mph; the faster you go, the more streamlining matters)
That's what gutters are for, as you'll find in every single car which has that form of hatch (which are numerous).
Which is why tapered vehicles are generally longer.
If you want a "city car" that never goes at highway speeds, but length is a critical factor, then sure, have a truncated rear end. But if you want an EV that's suitable for road trips, you want taper.
If I ever become wealthy and mad, I'll leave Companion Cubes on desert islands for shipwreck survivors.
Agreed, SUV is more on market. But if I'm teaching and researching in the mountains, and want to throw in some hunting and fishing and camping, it looks more my style.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Yeah, let's totally forget that they have 20% gross margins and had nearly a billion dollars free cash flow for each of the past two quarters, while most automakers gross margins on EVs are negative.
Tesla's debt just *decreased* by nearly a billion dollars. Its debt to equity ratio is not high by automotive standards. Check out Ford's, for example.
If I ever become wealthy and mad, I'll leave Companion Cubes on desert islands for shipwreck survivors.
Slightly different meaning here I think. The problem with that shape door is that it both lets rain water in and reduces the overall available height considerably. A vertical door would be much better.
Maybe that's the next vehicle. Anyway, we used to call these fastbacks, although those were generally 2 or 2+2 seaters. I miss my Nissan 240SX fastback badly. It could carry surprisingly large items, and it handled better than really anything else Japanese of its day except for the NSX. You had to get into something German or Italian to do better otherwise. But it also got 30 MPG on the freeway on normal tires back in '89, and at least some of that was due to its profile. It had pop-up headlights, and optionally, a fastback.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
All the news sites seem to be in agreement that because this is a Crossover type SUV, which is the big seller in the market right now, that this is going to do great.
The problem I see from the perspective of almost every Tesla owner I've spoken to about is .... none of them are impressed by the styling or anything else about it.
That tells me that yes, this really is a Tesla aimed at the "average consumer" who may have never considered one before, or didn't pay a lot of attention to them until now. That's fine, IF enough of those people turn out to want to try an EV version of a CUV at a $40-60K price-point. This is NOT really a vehicle that existing Tesla owners or fans will probably buy in any great numbers.
I mean, they already just sold a lot of Model 3 sedans to the Tesla-faithful, and this Model Y is so similar to one of those, you'd almost mistake one for the other at first glance. It's a slight bit taller, but exact same headlights, front grille design, and overall shape. Not even so much as new paint colors. I think the people who could afford them and were earlier adopters largely forked out the money for a Model X if they wanted an SUV, and they're rewarded for that cost with a bigger, roomier vehicle that has a far superior dashboard design. (And sure, you get the cool gull-wing rear doors too.)
Oddly too, depending on configuration -- there are people who paid about $5K more for their Model 3 than the same configuration claims it will cost on a Model Y. Maybe that will help some of them resell their slightly used 3 to move to a new Y if they want something like those extra seats for 7 passengers? But again, I bet this is really only a small sub-set of owners.
Those Russian/Texan trolls are not able to hide their anti-Tesla manipulation
I'm a Russian or a Texan then. An interesting concept - being from the UK I get these stereotype images of a ten-gallon stetson or a fur hat.
Long term situation looks decent. Though the pent up demand is gone, the base model will sell well. That will help with economy of scale. It is believed base model gross margin is not 20%. But it is not negative either. With all those slash and burn cost cutting the Q1 results will not be that bad.
Come 19Q2, the 750 million dollar loss 18Q2 will roll off the trailing four quarter view. So Tesla might make be profitable and will be included in SP500. That will bring much needed price support due to index fund buying. By that time world wide pent up demand will be gone. But base model will have margins in 10% range and the company will be able chugg along.
Demand will pick up for the model 3 in later half of the year. Tesla has not done leasing, advertising, fleet sales etc. It should be able to easily sell 350K model 3s world wide with an average sales price of around 40K.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
I don't get it. I can appreciate what the report says, that Tesla did not over extend itself or go too wild with new features and design. But to call it an SUV seems like pure marketing BS. They make a few mods on their base model and call it whatever they want to capture so and so market. They could call it a mini big rig or a suburban war tank, but that don't make it so. Take a look at the thing at https://www.tesla.com/modely. It is a small hatchback coupe that looks like my Honda did in the 1980's. Others in this thread have likened it to a VW beetle. If you got a Hot Wheels or Tonka Toy that looks like a Suburban or 4-Runner, and put a little battery and motor in it, that would be more of an SUV than that thing.
The site says:
"Model Y provides maximum versatility—able to carry 7 passengers and their cargo. Each second row seat folds flat independently, creating flexible storage for skis, furniture, luggage and more."
Granted, you have to see it in person to know for sure. But to look at the pictures, 7 people would be a huge squeeze. Furniture? A foot stool maybe. Doesn't seem like enough room for much camping gear, a surfboard, or lumberyard or garden store purchases. Sorry you say, surfboards go on the roof, but that curved hatchback ain't got no place to put a roof rack.
Site says:
"Model Y is capable in rain, snow, mud and off-road."
Off road? Sure, if pulling into your drive is off road. For that wilderness adventure, you can drive on your lawn.
Off road usually implies an alternative suspension - maybe they do, maybe they don't - but there is no clearance. Low center of gravity, as they claim, means your butt won't clear a sidewalk curb let alone rock and rubble mountain trails. Want to try a rainy wash?, wear your swim trunks and snorkel.
It's a hatchback, with a few interior seating mods so they can make you think "I bought an SUV" ... if you are an urban yuppie ... who has never driven through a ranch or a back country road.
And here's the other odd thing.
Site says:
"And when you’re on the road, it’s easy to plug in along the way—at any public station or with the Tesla charging network. We currently have over 12,000 Superchargers worldwide, with six new locations opening every week."
Six new locations a week?
Let's do the math.
6x50 weeks = 300 chargers per year.
At that rate, 12,000 units means they have invested 40 years in infrastructure build out, but we know that that is not the case. So, they put in a lot quickly in just a few years, and now they are lollygagging their way through. 300 units a year worldwide means that market self sustainability for electric vehicles will never happen. Maybe the ad got the numbers wrong. 600 a week would make sense, not 6.
Anyone else think that this ad is missing a few screws?
Any chance the vehicles themselves are missing a few screws?
I'm not a "right-winger". I don't root against Tesla. I'd like for them to succeed. But they're still way out of their depth.
I do root against Elon Musk. He's a piece of shit and a con man in my book.
This is just a Model 3, inflated like a balloon...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
TESLA CAN'T BE PROFITABLE!
(Tesla turns a profit)
FREAK INCIDENT, I DON'T BELIEVE IT!
(Tesla turns a profit again)
LIES! ALL LIES!
I think there's a fable about this somewhere...
If I ever become wealthy and mad, I'll leave Companion Cubes on desert islands for shipwreck survivors.
Only one startup has succeeded at it in the US since Chrysler in 1925, and that's Tesla. Many have tried. All but one have failed.
You mean dozens have been murdered, from Tucker to Kaiser.
And there's been plenty assassination attempts on Tesla and there will be on Rivian too, if they make it that far. Remember that Tesla started with the Roadster in 2008, the Model 3 is their 4th generation car with 10 years of experience. A newcomer now will have to get a lot of things right on the first try to not flop.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
a compact SUV is precisely what Americans want: a driveable vehicle that puts safety first and flash second.
Essentially a station wagon, this is exactly what I want. But it still misses the mark. High on my list of priorities is a car that won't track my location via GPS at all times. Until I can have privacy and a Tesla at the same time, I won't be getting the Tesla.
If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
You do realize that they do sell the $35k model, right? And that they actually made it nicer than was promised, with some of the things that were supposed to be optional extras included standard?
If I ever become wealthy and mad, I'll leave Companion Cubes on desert islands for shipwreck survivors.
Why do they keep making them look like boats with snooty noses (reminds me of the maître d' from Ferris Beuler's day off).
Max.
So Q3 was bookwork magic.
Q4 then? More magic?
As for capex, have you not noticed that they've built an entire new huge building at Lathrop and are building a whole new Gigafactory, among other things?
If I ever become wealthy and mad, I'll leave Companion Cubes on desert islands for shipwreck survivors.
It is an SUV not a hatchback. Even Teslarati proclaims it an SUV. And it's curved roof and door compromise it's role as an SUV. Apparently, based on your statement, because of battery constraints. So better to make it a poor SUV, than come out with something that does 225 miles - but has a usable interior (in terms of square shape). Better to do a BMW X6-style body that is universally derided as useless - poor for a car, and unusable as an SUV.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
That market is starting to really heat up, the choices are growing fast, take your pick, https://cars.usnews.com/cars-t... or https://www.tomsguide.com/us/p... or https://www.edmunds.com/electr....
The electric midsize SUV is the market place to be, both as buyer and seller and it is rapidly becoming much more competitive.
Now there is a real gamble in there, how long to hold onto your infernal combustion engine. As more electrics entire the market, so the prices will drop but as more electric vehicles enter the market so the resale of your infernal combustion engine will drop. So how long to hold on and when to sell, because that infernal combustion engine price drop will tend to be quite precipitous at the end.
Choose and perish, one way or the other, pay too much for the electric or lose too much on your old gas guzzler. Keep in mind people will be able to fill their electric tax free, from their home solar battery power system, so yeah, when the market goes into full speed, your gas guzzler investment is dead.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
This is just a Model 3, inflated like a balloon...
I prefer to think of it as the Model X, Tom Brady Edition.
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
You win the Intarwebs for the day!
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
My guess is that once solid state lidar becomes cheap and small enough they will retrofit for people who already paid for full self driving, like they promised.
They already have to retrofit the new revision 3 hardware to those older cars anyway.
How will that help? It's the software that's not up to scratch. Putting in better hardware is not going to help at this point; the reasons for the car being unable to drive autonomously is not because the sensors don't see everything.
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
Ahh, Slashdot's favorite shill is back!
But if you're city folk, and will rarely use it, go for the Tesla SUV.
Quite. The closest that about 99% of city SUVs get to going off-road is running over the flowerbed in the private school carpark. City SUVs are stupid vehicles. They're not designed to go off-road. They're designed to look macho to people whoss ego is too fragile to drive a minivan.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
You are just being obtuse now. Obviously I don't mean the internal space, as that has nothing to do with efficiency. Are you denying that the Kona is significantly taller than the Model 3, or that it has better EPA rated range?
BTW, Tesla also admits that it is losing money right now... oh, except Hyundai didn't say it isn't making money at all. That's not what the quote said, is it?
Come on Rei. The Model 3 is a good car, no need to get insecure and start lying about it.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
It won't help... But if they ever do make it work, they have realized that they need significantly more computing power than is available in the current system.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Now fuckoff; it's over for you losers.
Not true. Go configure one on Tesla's website. The base model with no options is $35,000 before savings. If you include the "imagined" fuel savings (an estimate — but yes, electricity really is cheaper than gasoline) and the tax break that's going away in a few months (but hasn't yet!), then the result is $26,950.
It is a hatchback. Including a power liftgate.
That being said, I'd like to see them make a hot hatch. Or a smaller wagon. Similar to how WRX used to have a wagon form. I always found hatchbacks deceptively good at moving a lot of stuff. I really miss the little 2 seater hatchback that I used to have (I've moved 2 times in the past year, and will be moving again in the next month)
This is just a Model 3, inflated like a balloon...
This has how I've felt about most car designs for the past 10-15ish years? I really miss some of the looks from back in the 90s.
Tesla telecast a parade of American ingenuity, model after model. Finally model "Y" entered on stage; behold a Tesla launch vehicle for the foreign market space. A model designed for smaller roads, built for smaller budgets and engineered for the future. Tesla's smarter approach separates model "Y" from its other big American Dream models by moving on. Model "Y" can solve the last man problem how to provide affordable, energy neutral transportation down to the last man. Great pivot!
UK,EU,CH,NZ,RU et. al. are GIGA plotting factories in the future.
Improved sensory equipment would decrease some computational requirements. So would making the environment more "machine-readable", such as including RF signaling equipment on road signs and markings. And other cars, of course.
Ezekiel 23:20
"but if they ever do make it work, they have realized that they need significantly more computing power than is available in the current system."
Yeah, and in the mean time you have to drive keeping your hands positioned on the steering wheel fully ready to take over from the so called self driving mode. Which is clearly not what the driver in the video is doing by placing both hands on the bottom of steering, placed close together and holding it lightly from underneath :
https://youtu.be/knaskUXb12A?t...