Vaccines Can Help Fight the Rise of Drug-Resistant Microbes (harvard.edu)

An anonymous reader quotes the Harvard School of Public Health: Drug-resistant strains of gonorrhea, salmonella, Escherichia coli (E. coli) and many other disease-causing agents are flourishing around the world, and the consequences are disastrous -- at least 700,000 people die globally as a result of antimicrobial resistance (AMR) annually, according to a 2016 review on antimicrobial resistance commissioned by former UK Prime Minister David Cameron. It's a perilous situation, but several new studies from researchers at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health indicate that an important tool in the fight against AMR already exists: vaccines.

The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences recently devoted a special feature section to examine the role vaccines can play in stemming the tide of antimicrobial resistance. In general terms, vaccinations can help lessen the burden in two ways: First, they can protect against the direct transmission of drug-resistant infections. Second, they can lessen the chances of someone getting sick, which in turn reduces the likelihood that he or she will be prescribed antibiotics or other medications. The fewer medications someone takes, the less likely it is that microbes will evolve resistance to the drugs.

Comments

vax sounds like tech salvation

[js290]

Didn't slashdot also just post this:

Bacteria Discovered In Irish Soil Kills Four Drug-Resistant Superbugs https://t.co/KZGurzCSqf

— Slashdot (@slashdot) March 18, 2019

Better start rebuilding our soil...

"The use of cattle and cover crops in agriculture operations provide the link to completing the nutrient cycle in the soil."https://t.co/8XwmQjt0c9

— Savory Institute (@SavoryInstitute) February 21, 2019

Sort of skeptical of this

[Anonymous Coward]

There has been what some might consider an exhaustive effort to develop numerous bacterial vaccines for cows to mitigate episodes of bovine mastitis and the only one that has been moderately successful is the J-5 E. coli vaccine. There are 4 to 5 other species of bacteria that can cause bovine mastitis and vaccines against those other species haven't been successful in the last 20 years.

Re:Sort of skeptical of this

[ceoyoyo]

I wonder how much of that is just because antibiotics are more convenient. There wasn't much progress on an ebola vaccine either, until a whole bunch of people got it.

Re:Sort of skeptical of this

[Anonymous Coward]

Antibiotics are not more convenient, especially with dairy cows. You can't sell their milk for nearly a month while they're on antibiotics and after while they're still coming out of their system but the cow still needs to be milked everyday so she doesn't dry up.

Re:Sort of skeptical of this

[dgatwood]

I wonder how much of that is just because antibiotics are more convenient. There wasn't much progress on an ebola vaccine either, until a whole bunch of people got it.

Back when I was a kid, they taught us that vaccines against bacteria were impossible. It isn't a convenience thing; bacterial vaccines are a lot harder to develop. You can't just use a weakened or inactivated bacteria like you can for viruses, because the immune system won't ever react to it at all without the presence of some other threat. So instead, vaccines against bacteria involve either:

• Creating a modified version of the toxin that the bacteria produce that does not harm people as much, but that is close enough to trigger an immune response to the actual toxin whenever bacteria that produce that toxin appear, or
• Creating a substance that combines something that the human immune system already attacks with the polysaccharide coat of the bacterium so that the immune system will start to identify that coat as a threat as well.

Either approach is considerably harder than weakening or inactivating a virus, AFAIK.

Re:Sort of skeptical of this

[ceoyoyo]

I'm perhaps a bit younger, since I received several actual anti-bacterial vaccines as a child. You can actually make vaccines using either attenuated live (e.g. tuberculosis, typhoid) or killed (older typhoid, pertussis) bacteria. As you mention, you can also make vaccines to the toxins, although that might be less acceptable for livestock due to the risk of the bacteria being transmitted to a person who isn't vaccinated.

It does seem to be more difficult to create fully effective vaccines for bacteria, particularly ones that confer near total immunity for life, but that wouldn't necessarily be a requirement for an antibiotic replacement in livestock.

By the way, candidate ebola vaccines include all of the mentioned types, including viral particle vaccines and other viruses engineered to express specific ebola antigens.

Our capabilities in biology really have advanced a lot in the last little while. It may not have been practical to use anti-bacterial livestock vaccination in the past, but it might be now, if the externalities of antibiotics were accounted.

Re:Sort of skeptical of this

[dgatwood]

I'm perhaps a bit younger, since I received several actual anti-bacterial vaccines as a child. You can actually make vaccines using either attenuated live (e.g. tuberculosis, typhoid) or killed (older typhoid, pertussis) bacteria. As you mention, you can also make vaccines to the toxins, although that might be less acceptable for livestock due to the risk of the bacteria being transmitted to a person who isn't vaccinated.

Oh, yeah. I guess that's true, I did get the DPT vaccination. I guess I'm remembering wrong, and they just said that some types of bacteria had properties that made it impractical to vaccinate them, and I mentally incorporated that as "all". *shrugs*

Our capabilities in biology really have advanced a lot in the last little while. It may not have been practical to use anti-bacterial livestock vaccination in the past, but it might be now, if the externalities of antibiotics were accounted.

A good start would be a complete ban on prophylactic use of antibiotics in livestock. Using antibiotics to keep animals in unsafe living conditions from getting sick is a serious abuse of antibiotics. Unfortunately, every time it has come up in Congress (S.621, H.R.1587), it has never made it to a vote. Our government clearly doesn't have the right priorities.

Re:Sort of skeptical of this

[ceoyoyo]

I expect that such a ban, perhaps also requiring a certified vet to prescribe antibiotics, would spur vaccine research. It might actually not be possible, but there's not much motivation when antibiotics for livestock costs pennies.

Infinity,,and beyond

[PopeRatzo]

The same jackoffs that think Elon Musk is going to take them to Mars and have them driving autonomous vehicles are also skeptical of...vaccines (which have been around and effective since the 1700s)

I have to believe some of this is the Trump Effect. That fucking degenerate thinks vaccines cause autism, so even admitting the possibility that he is fallible could cause the entire constructed worldview to start to unravel.

Vaccinate your fucking kids, you goofballs. Don't make 8chan your go-to source for information about how the world works. You still have a choice.

Re:Infinity,,and beyond

[Anonymous Coward]

What a total dumbfuck.
I have yet to have seen any of the Musk followers speak out against vaccines.
OTOH, I have seen idiots like you claim all sorts of things without a single shred of evidence.
Go suck Trump's dick. You and Ivanka can have a good time.

Re:Infinity,,and beyond

[Anonymous Coward]

How about electrec and teslarati, are these antivaxxer-infested fElon fellaters havens okay?

What the hell slashdot

[dknj]

I had to wait 90 seconds for slashdot to load dozens of advertising trackers.

I guess this marks my departure from Slashdot. This is a sign of what will become the world wide web for the rest of our future. We had a chance to make a difference and the same dichotomies of change that prevented TV from being a learning medium will prevent the internet from reaching it's true intent. Or in less savage terms, the golden era of the internet has already passed and like traveling before 9/11, no one will remember what it was like.

Better luck next time.

-dk

Re: not shilling for big pharma

[Anonymous Coward]

No one has ever said vaccines are perfectly safe. However the risk vs reward is near 100%. I would rather risk (although it is proven bullshit) my kid have a 1 in 50000 chance of autism than a 50/50 shot at a real disease like measles that kills and is now re-entering our population through 2 routes: the open southern border and anti-vax morons who do not give their kids shots.

Someone I know from work was an anti-vax idiot. He talked about it all the time. Then he married his pregnant illegal alien Mexican girlfriend.
She told him he was a moron and got the kid shots and the next 2 that followed.

Uneducated Mexican farm girl smarter than college educated American engineer.

Says a lot about what they teach in college these days.

If only vaccines could fight the rise of stupid!!

[Anonymous Coward]

If only there was a vaccines for stupid!!!
And no I don't mean high speed lead!!!

BNZ

vaccines are our best bet on all microbes

[WindBourne]

Nearly all microbes adapt to antibiotics. The reason is that after enough usage 1 of them will develop a resistance to the antibiotic. Then the resistance is normally passed around to others, typically via plasmid. So, just for fun, assume that it takes on average 1T instances of being exposed prior to resistance. If you have stimulated the body to fight the AMR, then we do not have to use antibiotic except for extreme cases.

This is why at some point, we really need to REQUIRE vaccines for all. At the least, require that unvaccinated be removed from ALL schools except for home schooling, and if they catch a disease, they have to pay for everything.

Re:vaccines are our best bet on all microbes

[SirAstral]

Or we could just stop putting antibiotics into everything everywhere creating the resistance.

microbes don't just adapt, they also fight each other for space and when you wipe out one colony type you also reduce the threat against those of a different type. the microbiome in the gut is a great example of things like this. Even the once thought to be vestigial appendix has a use discovered for it now as a safe-house for beneficial bacteria.

creating a vaccine for something serious like measles is great, creating one for every little illness... yea, I am sure that will go over well. Can they make one for my stubbed toe too? It might get infected!

Re:vaccines are our best bet on all microbes

[Anonymous Coward]

Step 1: Voluntary vaccines (perfectly timed to coincide with already dropping bad outcomes of whats being vaccinated against).
Step 2: People realize that vaccines might have adulterants and contaminations.
Step 3: Ban people from suing (obviously, because what did you think this was, capitalism!?)
Step 4: Propaganda, propaganda, propaganda! (You didn't think they were actually going to FIX the problem(s) did you?)
Step 5: Mandate the vaccine that you already cannot sue if it maims you or your child.
Step 6: FREEDOM! (because if you're dumb enough to believe it, does it really matter if its real!?)

Re:vaccines are our best bet on all microbes

[Pinky's Brain]

Right after we re-criminalize sodomy ... careful about praying for tyranny.

Re:vaccines are our best bet on all microbes

[Anonymous Coward]

I have no problem preventing unvaccinated from attending public schools. If you do that, however, then you should refund all the taxes they have paid to attend public schools.

Re:vaccines are our best bet on all microbes

[dgatwood]

Nearly all microbes adapt to antibiotics. The reason is that after enough usage 1 of them will develop a resistance to the antibiotic. Then the resistance is normally passed around to others, typically via plasmid. So, just for fun, assume that it takes on average 1T instances of being exposed prior to resistance. If you have stimulated the body to fight the AMR, then we do not have to use antibiotic except for extreme cases.

Well, maybe. Or you may have stimulated the body so much that it doesn't respond to anything as aggressively as it should, and the person ends up not being able to fight off even the less extreme stuff, or worse, responds too often and starts attacking the person's own cells (autoimmune disorders). The more things you vaccinate against, the greater that risk.

I'm absolutely in favor of vaccinating for deadly viral diseases that are highly contagious, but the moment you start to demand mass immunization for every potentially dangerous bacterium that exists in an antibiotic-resistant flavor, many of which don't spread all that easily to healthy individuals, you've crossed the line into large-scale experiment territory, and mandating that everyone be part of the experimental group in such an experiment would be bad at so many levels.

The right place to start is *not* mass vaccination, but rather *targeted* vaccination of populations that are more at risk, e.g. pneumonia and c. diff immunization for people going into nursing homes (or who work in nursing homes). The former is already happening; the latter is a year out or so. If those go well, then *maybe* we can start *slowly* expanding coverage and see what happens, but even then, it should be part of a broader, controlled study.

Re:vaccines are our best bet on all microbes

[Anonymous Coward]

No. That is part of the costs of elective not vaccinating.
The other choice is to follow the red states that require everybody to vaccinate, except with medical excuse.

Re:vaccines are our best bet on all microbes

[WindBourne]

yes, requiring things like proper electricity/water in our homes is a HORRIBLE thing.
O requiring wearing seat belts and having air bags. Horrible.
OR, requiring that ppl who are put under quarantine because they have any number of highly infectious diseases to remain in their homes, again, is a horrible thing.

I am guessing that you are not old enough to have witnessed any of these diseases. The last case of small pox in America was before I was born in 59.
However, I have known ppl with Polio. Likewise, I HAVE seen ppl die of Mumps, Hepatitis (I was not told what strain; she was a 12 y.o. friend of mine), and have seen adults with Chicken pox along with hep A. I've had several cousins/friends die of HiV, but little can be done there. This posting has a nice table that shows the number of lives saved yearly, as well as how many on current diseases
Requiring vaccines with only medical exceptions like Mississippi does, has not harmed anybody, though a group claims that 50 babies have died over 20 years. If they are correct, that would mean 2.5 babies / year, vs other states where even today, 10-50 die YEARLY in states that allow parents to opt out.

Re:vaccines are our best bet on all microbes

[WindBourne]

creating a vaccine for every little illiness is not the same as heavy use of antibiotics. I fully agree with you about the use of antibiotics. In America, the docs are trying to protect themselves from lawyers/lawsuits. So, I know of some that have given antibiotics for a virus just to shut up a parent. Sadly, that is causing more issues. Add in China's farmers heavy use of cheap antibiotic, and between both nations, we are having some horrible effects on our kid's future.

Re: vaccines are our best bet on all microbes

[Anonymous Coward]

Why single out China's farmers? Is it again to deflect attention away from America? Where 80% of antibiotics are used on farm animals. Not even for illness, just so they can force them into less healthy conditions (making the problem worse) and make them grow faster.

Re:vaccines are our best bet on all microbes

[WindBourne]

David.
Basically, what you are suggesting is that vaccinations cause autoimmune. Yet, logically, that makes little sense.
We already know that viruses and bacteria DO cause autoimmune. GBS is a great example of one.
The notion that vaccines don’t cause autoimmunity makes sense. Since vaccines don't drive the immune response nearly as vigorously as natural infections do, it is less likely that they would induce autoimmunity. However, scientists continue to study questions related to vaccines as a cause of autoimmunity as they arise.
Here is an interesting case. If you look at this, you will see that far more women get 2 types of autoimmune disease, but also that America/UK,which are vaccinated LESS than these other nations, have much higher incidence rate.
The evidence is overwhelming that vaccines do not cause autoimmune any more than they cause autism.

BTW, based on your response, it is obvious that you do not have the background on immunology. Im guessing that you have an autoimmune disease and read bits and peices. If I'm wrong, please let me know.
Consider reading at least this section. It is where vaccines work.

Re:vaccines are our best bet on all microbes

[Pinky's Brain]

By forcing sodomy underground you severely restrict the promiscuity of men who have sex with men. They are on average carriers of highly infectious diseases in combination with their lifestyle.

So as I said, be careful about praying for tyranny ... it won't always hit who you personally want.

Re:vaccines are our best bet on all microbes

[dgatwood]

Basically, what you are suggesting is that vaccinations cause autoimmune. Yet, logically, that makes little sense.

No, that's not at all what I'm suggesting. Current vaccines do not (or at least are not known to) cause autoimmune disorders, although vaccinations can trigger preexisting autoimmune conditions.

As far as I'm aware, nobody knows exactly what actually causes autoimmune conditions to begin with, beyond that the immune system somehow gets confused about what it should attack. My best guess is that viruses, because they often end up getting their DNA mixed up with DNA from the host, can sometimes end up causing a few cells to produce substances (e.g. proteins) that contain a mixture of the viral coat and some aspect of the host's cells, and that in some rare cases, this causes the immune system to recognize those two things as being related, and starts attacking the host organism inadvertently.

This is, incidentally, exactly how many bacterial vaccines work; they combine some portion of the bacterium's structure with something that the immune system already knows how to attack. I could easily imagine a scenario where a batch of the bacteria genetically engineered to produce those substances gets inadvertently contaminated via viral DNA transfer, resulting in batches of the vaccine that trigger autoimmune conditions, either in a few unlucky individuals, or worse, en masse.

But the bigger risk, IMO, is the possibility that the vaccine itself could make a superbug more likely. Researchers in Canada and Hong Kong during the 2009–2010 flu season (H1N1) discovered that people who got the 2008 flu shot (with H1N1 coverage) had twice the risk of getting the strain of H1N1 that circulated in the 2009–2010 season as unvaccinated people. Of course, another study in 2017 showed the exact opposite effect, so there are a lot of giant question marks here.

But at least at a conceptual level, vaccines train your immune system to attack certain things, and as your immune system learns what to attack, its reactions to new threats does decrease somewhat. That's why kids who are exposed to more germs by age 1 are less likely to develop allergies later in life. It is unclear to what extent this effect could result in something that you might otherwise have fought off from becoming deadly, but at the very least, it is sufficient reason to approach expansion of vaccination in new areas with some degree of caution, as over-vaccination might turn out to be just as harmful as prophylactic antibiotic use in the long run.

And no, I'm not an epidemiologist, but I've read a lot on the subject over the years.

Corporate farms

[Anonymous Coward]

These kinds of problems (rampant disease in cattle) seem to affect mostly cows crammed into unclean and unsanitary conditions.

Maybe they don't need a vaccine at all, but better animal husbandry. But I guess common sense and decency will never win out against greed.

Re:Corporate farms

[Anonymous Coward]

Tell you what, bub -- why don't you grab a turnip and chow down.

Re:Corporate farms

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, giving vaccines to animals, along with humans, does NOT harm anything. It is using antibiotics heavily that causes issues.
In places like China, they avoid vaccinating many of their animals and then hope that they will not get sick, but if they do, they simply use the cheap stolon antibiotic. Of course, that is what gives us antibiotic resistant microbes.

Re: Corporate farms

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice try Windy
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/09/are-antibiotics-turning-livestock-superbug-factories
https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/07-11-2017-stop-using-antibiotics-in-healthy-animals-to-prevent-the-spread-of-antibiotic-resistance
But it's the USA.

Re: Corporate farms

[F.Ultra]

You do realize that both of your links support the parent's claim right?

Re:Corporate farms

[Anonymous Coward]

"Actually, giving vaccines to animals, along with humans, does NOT harm anything"

ALL medicine has side effects - Medical Doctors.

This is the big vaccine lie, that they don't do ANY harm at all. This is false, every medicine ever created affects some people very badly, so permanently so, and so even die from medicine, including vaccines.

WINDBOURNE, lol, the denialist anti-science SHILL?

[Anonymous Coward]

^^ Same idiot says global warming doesn't exist, tries to use science for his purposes but doesn't accept what it actually says. Fuck you moron lol, are you transparently stupid or what? WE CAN SEE WHAT YOU WRITE HERE.

Caffeinated Bacon(CT), quit lying

[Anonymous Coward]

I have been following your shit all along. You continue to lie on everything. So far, I have yet to see Windy post saying that Global Warming does not exist. In fact, you regularly lie and claim that he is letting America off the hook. Never once seen that. Only you continue to lie and claim that.

Now you claim that s/he is anti-science and yet, windy produces a blinding piece on vaccine vs antibiotic. But your nation, china, continues to botch things horribly. So, go back to XI and suck his knob clean after he buggers you.

Re: Caffeinated Bacon(CT), quit lying

[Anonymous Coward]

Never once seen WindBourne let America off the hook?
https://m.slashdot.org/thread/58157492
You and he need to stop felationing each other and find a better use of your time.

Re: Caffeinated Bacon(CT), quit lying

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing there.

Re: Caffeinated Bacon(CT), quit lying

[Anonymous Coward]

None so blind as those who will not see.

WINDBOURNE, lol, the denialist anti-science SHILL?

[Anonymous Coward]

"In fact, you regularly lie and claim that he is letting America off the hook" - No, that's the other guy. Windbourne is however a denialist shill. You can debate the point but not refute it.

Thanks for the help I'll take it from here

[Anonymous Coward]

America is allowed to pollute much more because its GDP is higher.
--
WindBourne

Do you even know what vaccines are?

[Anonymous Coward]

So instead of resistance to the antibiotic they develop resistance to the body instead?
You can change antibiotics or develop new ones. Good luck changing bodies...

Re:Do you even know what vaccines are?

[F.Ultra]

That would be extremely rare though: https://microbialmenagerie.com...

And even if it would happen it would happen anyway as your body would create the very same antibodies once you get exposed to the decease as your be from being vaccinated for the same decease.

Re:Do you even know what vaccines are?

[WindBourne]

You are better off not answering the AC that is following me. Nearly all are Caffeinated Bacon/ Crimson Tsunami (1 guy that uses at least these 2, and possibly more logons, as well as posts as AC). The guy is a Chinese troll that constantly lie.

With that said, bugs do not become resistant to vaccines. What happens is that some bugs, mostly virus, undergoes antigenic shift. Basically, the markers on the various bugs that antibodies react to, will change shape (or simply disappear). A great example of this is Flu. That is why CDC keeps looking for a single shared STABLE protein on the outside, that is exposed, and most everybody has antibodies to. Basically, a silver bullet. Sadly, since CDC could not find that (so far), we continue to do yearly vaccinations.

Re:Do you even know what vaccines are?

[Anonymous Coward]

But in the vaccination case, EVERYONE is getting the vaccine and prompting a change for a beneficial mutation. For the other case. not everyone will end up with the disease, only a tiny fraction will be forcing a change.

Re:Do you even know what vaccines are?

[Anonymous Coward]

With that said, bugs do not become resistant to vaccines. What happens is that some bugs, mostly virus, undergoes antigenic shift.

A distinction without a difference. Either process will result in pressure for the bugs to change and beat the system and gain evolutionary advantage over its siblings. Once one changes, you are helping it along to become dominate by fighting off all it's competitors for it.

You are better off not answering the AC that is following me.

WindBourne has a Secret Admirer now, whose job it is to answer the difficult questions.

Not close enough it would seem

[CaffeinatedBacon]

You have been attempting to impersonate me a fair bit recently. But the writing style is not at all similar to mine.
The only people you will convince are gullible fools. Since that seems to be the demographic you and WindBourne are targeting anyway, go right ahead. WindBourne has already been caught out using this exact same tactic before, so your credibility cant get any worse.

Just for the record, Where did I say WindBourne was a climate denier? I never did.
You will have to do your homework a bit better than that.
I said he (yes he) denies America is a big part of the problem. He lies constantly. Also, he isn't so into logic or common sense and often provides links he clearly never reads, as they usually contradict what he claims.
You see there is no need to make up more reasons to laugh about him. There are already plenty of valid ones.

Anyway, you still haven't shown a single lie.

Just to keep track, you shall now be known as WindBourne's Secret Admirer, unless you care to log in.
(Just pretend WindBourne's Secret Admirer isn't just WindBourne with a bad fake moustache.)

Re:Not close enough it would seem

[WindBourne]

Here. I doubt that whoever that person is, will respond to you, so I will;
You are a constant liar. Here is just a few examples. You claim all the time that I am a denier of America's pollution as well as Global. Yet, I have never ONCE done that. I DO say that America has been headed in the right direction for the last 10 years (save 2018), while CHina is the exact opposite. Even in 2018, we were headed in the right direction, EXCEPT for nat. gas for electricity. That has to stop and we need geo-thermal, along with nuclear.

BTW, I KNOW that almost all of these ACs are you. Yeah, every so often somebody else will post AC, but it is easy enough to see that they are not some paid Chinese Troll like you.

Re: not shilling for big pharma

[Anonymous Coward]

"In-bread"
Lol wtf dude? Are you a fucking retard??

Yeah, whatever

[Anonymous Coward]

They're creating vaccine-resistant microbes and people with autoimmune problems worse than the diseases they supposedly prevent.

Re:Yeah, whatever

[F.Ultra]

So in other words you have no clue what so ever what a vaccine really is. If these microbes some how magically develop resistance to the antibodies created by the vaccine then they will also create the very same resistance to the antibodies created by the body's first reaction to the same decease since these antibodies will be 100% the same in both cases.

Re:Yeah, whatever

[ceoyoyo]

That's not entirely true. There are different kinds of vaccines. An organism could develop resistance to a vaccine consisting of viral or bacterial particles.

LOL that you again WindBourne

[Anonymous Coward]

Firstly the two are in no way related.

Secondly, measles is only a minor annoyance now to most people because, drumroll,vaccination.

Re: LOL that you again WindBourne

[Anonymous Coward]

You guys sure are defensive about the occasional, horrible side effects of your needless vaccines.

Measles was a minor annoyance illness for thousands of years before anyone invented a vaccine. It's just not that bad.

Slightly risky vaccine for horrific diseases like polio? Good idea! Slightly risky vaccine for minor annoyances like measles? What are your smoking, broham?

Re: LOL that you again WindBourne

[nospam007]

'Measles was a minor annoyance illness for thousands of years before anyone invented a vaccine. It's just not that bad.'

You're an idiot or you're Jenny McCarthy.

"In 2011, the WHO estimated that there were about 158,000 deaths caused by measles. This is down from 630,000 deaths in 1990.[4] "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Re: LOL that you again WindBourne

[Anonymous Coward]

"Jenny McCarthy"

Found the guy who watches TV-for-idiots.

Go try to lie to someone who doesn't have first hand experience. No one who has actually had measles is going to fall for your sky is falling trope.

Re: LOL that you again WindBourne

[Anonymous Coward]

fuck off you god damn genocidal retard

C'mon WindBourne's Secret Admirer

[Anonymous Coward]

It's just not even slightly credible that you have been following along, but didn't notice WindBourne was a bloke.

You need to up your game mate.

wqtf.. stupid. gehy

[Anonymous Coward]

wtf?????

Re: not shilling for big pharma

[pecosdave]

People say vaccines are perfectly safe all the time and call anyone who questions that batshit stupid. I had at least one someone reply to me saying exactly that last week here in Slashdot.

Even if you know someone injured by a vaccine and/or someone who received a payout from the secret vaccine court you're still batshit.

Anytime a narrative over powers reality the narrative needs questioning, and this narrative is super powerful.

My suggestion to restoring trust:. Do away with the secret court and government backed payout fund. Treat vaccine injuries like other malpractice and product related injuries that get tried in public.

Accountability and trust go hand in hand. Secret courts and blanket immunity for a whole industry does not build trust.

Re: not shilling for big pharma

[Anonymous Coward]

Secret laws
Secret courts
Tyranny

Measles is worse today thanks to vaccines

[Anonymous Coward]

No. Measles and Chickenpox/Shingles are worse today exactly because of vaccines. Vaccines destroy natural immunity
and change the target population. Immunity from vaccines is temporary at best. Natural immunity is pretty much life-long.
Instead of children getting measles and having lifelong immunity, teenagers, adults, and little babies are getting measles,
and it's worse for them! Mothers used to pass immunity onto their babies, but vaccines do not create strong transmissible
immunity from mom to baby.

Nature adapts, people. Haven't any of you seen Jurassic Park? Michael Chrichton wasn't a moron. He knew that life
finds a way to survive. The whole vaccine industry is a fool's mission.

Vaccines do cause injury. Billions of dollars have been paid out by vaccine injury court, a court that makes it extremely
difficult to win your case.

You Slashdotters all think that you're so smart, and yet you don't even understand the science from a movie that you
younglings saw as wee children. It's so sad that our planet has degenerated so much. I wish that there were a vaccine
against stupid people.

Re:Measles is worse today thanks to vaccines

[RatherBeAnonymous]

You are almost entirely incorrect.

I had chickenpox twice when I was a child. My first case was so mild that my immune system did not maintain antibodies for it. My second case was more severe and my immunity to chicken pox has persisted. Yes, antibodies developed by vaccines can wear off, but so can antibodies developed by normal infections. Also, shingles is just a reemergence of the same chickenpox virus that most adults contracted as children. The virus hides in the nervous system and reemerges as people get older and their immune systems get weaker and less able to fight off the virus.

Not all viruses are the same. Many viruses have DNA coding that weeds out mutations. Measles, chickenpox, polio, and smallpox are viruses that do this. This is why vaccinations for these diseases work for decades and why people can develop life-long immunity after a childhood infection. Some viruses, like Influenza and HIV, mutate rapidly and are hard to inoculate against. Incidentally, viruses tend to mutate more quickly in malnourished people. If food shortages become more widespread as the world population increases we are likely to see more frequent viral mutations.

Yes, vaccines do cause injury. The oral polio vaccines was one particular vaccine that could cause a polio infection. There is a genetic disorder that can cause children who receive vaccinations develop high fevers than can cause brain damage or death (but any infection can trigger this response). There is always a risk of infection for any injections. But if billions of dollars been paid out, or is it extremely difficult to win a case? It seems like the two statements are at odds with each other. Statistics show that 80% of cases are settled out of court with the plaintiff receiving an award. Of the remaining cases that are adjudicated, about one quarter of then result in a win for the plaintiff. http://time.com/3995062/vaccin... Now, if a person tries to go to the court saying the MMR vaccine caused their child's Autism, they will loose. Not only is there no verifiable link between Autism and vaccinations, the doctor who originally put forward this notion was prosecuted for fraud because he was developing his own competing vaccine technology and wanted to discredit existing technologies.

On a side note, Jurassic Park glossed over almost all of the science, and the book was better.

Re:Measles is worse today thanks to vaccines

[Anonymous Coward]

"I wish that there were a vaccine against stupid people."
-- heh heh... but then we would all miss out on reading your post...

"Vaccines destroy natural immunity"
--You do realize that vaccines aren't some magical super juice that does all the work for you. Vaccines are a weak/dead version of the real virus... that causes your body's immune system to naturally recognize the invader and defend against it. They don't destroy natural immunity, they activate it against a version of the virus that's not full powered and likely to absolutely wreck your child.

"He knew that life finds a way to survive. The whole vaccine industry is a fool's mission."
--Yeah, life does find a way to survive. Generally. Though is might mean a catastrophe wipes out 4/5 of the human population, and only a few people manage to make it. The dinosaurs were completely wiped out, but life managed to find a way to survive, albeit in a different form. Is that how you want things to be?

Blah blah blah, go check the sources because I'm sure it won't be good enough for you. But wikipedia lists this when you look up how many people have died by measles.
It is one of the leading vaccine-preventable disease causes of death. In 1980, 2.6 million people died of it, and in 1990, 545,000 died; by 2014, global vaccination programs had reduced the number of deaths from measles to 73,000.

Re: Measles is worse today thanks to vaccines

[Anonymous Coward]

It's becoming increasingly obvious that MMR vaccine does in fact cause autism. How is it becoming obvious you say? By the frantic way forced-vax nazis try to dismiss and cover up even the slightest suggestion of the possibility of risk. And citing a ruling of a plaintiff-hostile semi-secret kangaroo court as evidence!

Re: not shilling for big pharma

[Anonymous Coward]

"People" may say that, but there isn't one medical expert, or even medical practitioner, who will EVER say anything close to that.

Nothing is ever safe 100% of the time, not even a glass of room temperature distilled water, not even clean, filtered air.

Being vaccinated is a risk, and that risk greatly reduces several other risks. You could even say that visiting a clinic to be vaccinated is a risk.

If you are so risk adverse as to fear being vaccinated then you should probably lock yourself in a sterile room and never come out. Nearly everyone would think THAT is batshit crazy.

Re: not shilling for big pharma

[RatherBeAnonymous]

Is this the secret court you are talking about? The one advertised the HRSA web site? https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-c...

Re: not shilling for big pharma

[Anonymous Coward]

It's kind of sad that spelling inbred wrong is the problem that you have with this thread...

Re: not shilling for big pharma

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean the autism that has been proven by scores of scientists around the world to have no link to vaccination?

Re: not shilling for big pharma

[pecosdave]

It's called a secret court because what happens in the court itself are secret, not the existence of the court itself.

Re: not shilling for big pharma

[Anonymous Coward]

How do you explain that the Japanese have the highest life expectancy in the world, yet have been extremely reluctant to vaccinate further? It sounds like you are lying to yourself about the benefits of vaccines.

Re:not shilling for big pharma

[nospam007]

"There is NO RISK WHATSOEVER. All the cases of autism and other iatrogenic diseases caused by vaccines are FAKE NEWS."

Shut up, Jenny McCarthy.

Re: not shilling for big pharma

[Anonymous Coward]

"White Americans built this country. "

LOL, they used slaves for almost everything, only the railways were built by Chinese workers.
The white people couldn't be bothered, they had to kill the native population.

Re: not shilling for big pharma

[Anonymous Coward]

However the risk vs reward is near 100%.

So it's near 100% that it's a risk? Somehow I don't think you said what you thought you said.

Re:not shilling for big pharma

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL fucking moron.

Send the anti-vaxxers to Coventry

[Anonymous Coward]

Not the county in England, but the place in Heinlein's short story. Make a new small state somewhere in the US and build a wall around it and send them all there.

In Soviet Russia ...

[Anonymous Coward]

... the resistant organism is You!

Re: not shilling for big pharma

[ceoyoyo]

Don't believe the conspiracy theories. Vaccines aren't perfectly safe: any treatment has the potential for adverse reactions. Vaccine side effects are VERY well monitored. Reporting is legally required, and the data is public.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesaf...

Re: not shilling for big pharma

[Anonymous Coward]

Racist vs racist - FIGHT!

Re:not shilling for big pharma

[Anonymous Coward]

oh, fuck off.

Re: not shilling for big pharma

[Anonymous Coward]

Shut up, Cletus, and take yer vaccine like the nice gubmint man said to.

Once again WindBourne fails to read his own link

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again You claim a link says what you want it to say instead of what it actually says.

It is difficult to pinpoint why the US and UK have higher prevalence. There could be underlying population characteristics or genetics that cause these two markets to have higher prevalence, or it could be better diagnosis or disease awareness in these markets that results in more diagnosed cases. GlobalData epidemiologists believe it is most likely a combination of the above. More studies would be necessary in the US and UK to better understand what is causing this trend, to help support autoimmune disease patients.

The study explicitly says they don't know. But WindBourne just knows, and then pretends that they agree with him. (a lie)

Caffeinated Bacon fails to comprehend

[Anonymous Coward]

Caffeinated Bacon is such a knobs-end, that nowhere in his ranting did it say that vaccines are causing or possibly causing it. It is becoming obvious that this Cheena knobs-end is worthless with a poly sci, or equivalent background.
Go back to being buggered by Xi.

Go fuck yourself WindBourne

[CaffeinatedBacon]

WindBourne's Secret Admirer will definitely pop up again sooner rather than later. He/she/it actually thinks he's/she's/it's helping your cause by showing the kinds of kooks that you attract.

You deny constantly that American people are worse than Chinese people when it comes to CO2.

You deny that historically America is the biggest source of CO2.

You constantly play down the reality that America per person is still over twice as bad as Chinese people. You try to convince everyone that because they got a little better (except last year when you got worse) they are the good guys. They are not. They are still twice as bad as European and Chinese people, there are just less of them.

You constantly claim America should naturally produce so much CO2 because it's GDP is high.

Your one example of a lie (which you 'claimed' was a few examples) isn't even a lie.
But then you constantly claim links say what you want them to when they clearly do not.

Even here in that very post you lie yet again.

Even in 2018, we were headed in the right direction, EXCEPT for nat. gas for electricity.

Transport was your biggest emitter, it got worse again. Like it has every year since 2012. You have been shown many times, why still lie?

But then it's standard for WindBourne to lie. He does it so much, he can't help but lie even in the posts where he accuses me of lying. Here here and herefor example. Yet he still can't show one. Strange.

Strange, it works on mobiles just fine

[Anonymous Coward]

Here is the desktop link if you couldn't figure it out for yourself (Windy's followers are a little slow)

Thanks WindBourne's Secret Admirer

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice of you to show how completely clueless WindBourne's followers are. Keep up the good work :)

No so into logic are you WindBourne?

[Anonymous Coward]

That is why CDC keeps looking for a single shared STABLE protein on the outside, that is exposed, and most everybody has antibodies to.

No so into logic are you WindBourne?
If there was such a stable protein, and most everyone had antibodies to it, there wouldn't be a Flu would there. Everyone would already have been immune to it ...

Re:No so into logic are you WindBourne?

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop making my man look foolish. It's bad enough that he's a proven liar many times over. Something something knobs.
--
WindBourne's Secret Admirer

Health

[logangrog130]

Yeah, as forskolin reviews said to me at my last consultation, next 10-15 years gonna be a medical revolution and we gonna be as healthy as never before. So, seeing news like this really makes me feels like we going into future for real.

Re: not shilling for big pharma

[pecosdave]

I happen to be very close to more than one person who works in the pharmaceutical industry, or has at one point in time or another.

When a vaccine industry gets reported it's like pulling teeth to get a report filed. When a person lower on the pole tries to make it happen, they're more often than not blocked by someone higher up. Reporting vaccine injuries is considered "bad behavior" by at least one very large and very recognizable chain.

Re: not shilling for big pharma

[ceoyoyo]

Perhaps your "friend" in the pharma industry is fibbing. Adverse reaction reporting is done by treating physicians, and is taken very seriously. The US has a problem with pharma, money and physicians, but there's a lot less payola in vaccines.

Re: not shilling for big pharma

[pecosdave]

Pharmacies give vaccines now. In fact if there's a pharmacy near you getting close to flu season the icon on Waze says "Flu Shot". A pharmacist is not a physician, and there's more than just flu shots done at pharmacies, they practically beg the elderly to get shingles shots at the checkout counter.