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US Companies Are Moving Tech Jobs To Canada Rather Than Deal With Trump's Immigration Policies, Report Says (recode.net)

US companies are going to keep hiring foreign tech workers, even as the Trump administration makes doing so more difficult. For a number of US companies that means expanding their operations in Canada, where hiring foreign nationals is much easier. From a report: Demand for international workers remained high this year, according to a new Envoy Global survey of more than 400 US hiring professionals, who represent big and small US companies and have all had experience hiring foreign employees. Some 80 percent of employers expect their foreign worker headcount to either increase or stay the same in 2019, according to Envoy, which helps US companies navigate immigration laws. That tracks with US government immigration data, which shows a growing number of applicants for high-skilled tech visas, known as H-1Bs, despite stricter policies toward immigration. H-1B recipients are all backed by US companies that say they are in need of specialized labor that isn't readily available in the US -- which, in practice, includes a lot of tech workers. Major US tech companies, including Google, Facebook, and Amazon, have all been advocating for quicker and more generous high-skilled immigration policies. To do so they've increased lobbying spending on immigration.

19 of 444 comments (clear)

  1. Not new really by AlanObject · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That's been going on for some time.

    Since the Bush years we often had to deal with tech seminars and conferences where they were moved out of the U.S. because many of the participants couldn't deal with U.S. Customs and Border enforcement. If you weren't a white European you were basically treated like shit and assumed to be a terrorist unless you could prove otherwise.

    1. Re:Not new really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why not both?

    2. Re:Not new really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Please don't try to put the narrative into childish terms

      The President of the United States is following policies that have been put together to sound good, and to get a rise out of the conservative base, but that are not tied to effective policy development

      In other words, US policy is being transformed to fit conservative bumper stickers

      That has had a number of totally expected side effects, which fox new pundits regularly ignore in their own arguments, but which Americans are now faced with
      1. Get rid of CAFE standards.
      A favorite of 'free market' pundits for years
      Net result, elimination of all car production lines as auto companies abandon them for more profitable SUV/light truck production resulting in off shoring of car production and loss of American manufacturing jobs

      2. Restore the trade balance, i.e. Sell more products over seas than we purchase
      Aggressive conservative pundits love any kind of war so they can flag wave, but ignore the FACT that there will be a trade imbalance as long as the US is the dominant economic power on the planet
      Net result people buy even less of our stuff, which they can readily purchase for less in less developed countries. this has affected our primary export of agricultural products, loss of American farms, loss of jobs and increased costs for consumers

      3. Keep out them damn immigrants
      Favorite source of conservative fear-mongering supported by thinks tanks like CIS
      Net result: increased costs for consumers and increased off-shoring of tech jobs (as demonstrated in this article)

      So, President Trump has really done us a favor by following the ridiculous policies of his beloved fox new pundits BECAUSE it is really the only way to disprove their bat-shit crazy ideas.

      It is just sad that many Americans have to suffer before they can learn they have been mislead

    3. Re: Not new really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Sure, and the dog-whistle "money changer" isn't used by white nationalists to undermine anybody who actually thinks about issues.

      Pretty smart there adolf

    4. Re:Not new really by Shaitan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Make the CEO of any company caught hiring illegal aliens spew a year in jail for each illegal employed, and the problem will disappear pretty quickly."

      The real immigration problem has little to do with illegal aliens and everything to do with legally imported workers to toss Americans out of high paying tech jobs. They distract you with strawberry pickers while they displace 50k six figure jobs a year. It floods the market and stagnates wages. Whether you actually work in those fields or not this kills the economy and drives the economic depression that leads to you pointing fingers at strawberry pickers.

  2. More advantages by dskoll · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Also, the corporate tax rate in Canada is very competitive, and health care premiums are much, much lower thanks to universal single-payer health care. Plus, if your income is in USD but your salaries are in CAD, you get a nice little boost.

    1. Re:More advantages by Pulzar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      and health care premiums are much, much lower thanks to universal single-payer health care

      What health premiums?

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    2. Re:More advantages by mark-t · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As a Canadian, I can confidently state that we do, in fact, have to pay health premiums.

      In many cases, they are paid for by the employer, but where they are not, they still exist.

      Here in BC, a person can spend up to about $40/month on health premiums.

    3. Re:More advantages by Mashiki · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Most Americans would wet their pants to only pay $40/month for health premiums.

      BC is an odd province out. If you lived in Alberta, traveling 6hrs to see a specialist or being flown out to a major city is the norm for any type of critical care. In Ontario, traveling 2-5hrs for a specialist is common. $40 sounds great to even those of us in Ontario, especially since most people spend $200-400/per-person in private health insurance to cover drugs alone. That's on top of the money that's already being paid for it via taxes. Figure in Ontario you're blowing around 50% of your income on taxes right out of the gate. And you sure don't see much for it.

      But the real question is, how many Americans are willing to wait 2yrs for cataract surgery? Or 4 months to start cancer treatment? Cause those aren't outside a norm in Ontario either.

      --
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  3. Thanks Obama! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I know it's hip & trendy to blame Trump for everything under the sun, these movements have been happening for longer than he has been in office. Ex: https://www.geekwire.com/2016/trudeau-speak-opening-microsoft-vancouver-facility/

  4. Healthcare too by rsilvergun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've lost jobs to Canadian outsourcing because companies didn't want to deal with our screwed up healthcare system. One of the worst/best was when a US based insurance company moved it's call center operations to Canada.

    That said, if this really is just H1-Bs shifting to Canada I find it really hard to care. I couldn't have gotten those jobs anyway and to be blunt I see very, very little of the benefits from immigration here in America. Without robust set of programs to take advantage of those economic wealth generated it's all just money going to the top. Even small businesses can be hurt since they're left to compete with companies that can hire engineers for less money (though it's debatable whether wage depression brought on by the influx of cheap labor offsets that).

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  5. is it really easier to set up operations by layabout · · Score: 3, Insightful

    in another country than it is to hire developers older than 40 and pay them for their skills??

  6. Re:Wanna Fix It? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You realize that when he said that, the top income tax bracket was a 91% tax. Now it's ~35%. The right solution is raising income taxes on the ultra rich (10M income per year?) to 50% or more, and raising capital gains tax to the same amount to make it so the rich have to give back to the economy rather than buying more private jets.

  7. Re:Not possible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Just like how the R's stole money from the middle class with the tax code change. If you don't understand that both sides do this shit, you are a fucking moron. But going by what you wrote, yeah, you are a fucking moron.

  8. Top quality Indian talen is not emigrating anymore by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Times have changed a lot since my immigration. Those days, (1990s) most top quality graduates emigrated. Education is the classic ticket out of poverty, out of India. These are the ones that came to USA worked their butts off and impressed their bosses and made them think, "ALL Indians are smart, well educated and hard working". The supply is not all that deep. Once you get past IITs, IISc, RECs, NITs the quality drops precipitously. Emigrants till about 2002 - 2005 were decent.

    Then the H1B to green card transition became hard, the waiting lists got longer, and USA was losing its charm for the elite graduates. At the same time, Indian economy boomed, these grads were getting great career prospects back at home. The stream of resumes with IIT BTech has dwindled to nearly nothing.

    Let Canada keep them. When USCompanies realize most of them are duds, it will be Canada's problem, bot ours.

    --
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  9. Nice Propaganda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    1. Nice lie. It's not "get rid of CAFE standards". It's "don't price the working class out of cars". Physics is a bitch, and she doesn't care about your green agenda.

    2. It's not about the trade balance; it's about unfair competition and dumping. The Chinese were deliberately, and successfully, dumping to destroy the US steel industry. Jobs are the campaign slogan, but the real problem is national security. Without domestic steel production, our entire economy is completely vulnerable to the Chinese Navy. Just like China and electric vehicles: with only a trivial petroleum reserve, they realize their economy is completely vulnerable to the US Navy or Lloyds shutting down their economy.

    3. Keep out the damn illegals. You keep lying and lying and lying, but the republicans are tired of the left-wing importing illegals in the hope of getting more voters. Stop lying. It's not about immigration, it's about illegals. In fact, when you narrow down to groups, it's the progressives who are being hurt the worst, and most aware of the damages from H1B abuses.

    It's sad that we're going to suffer batshit insane because so many people like you are incapable of critical thought and unwilling to consider the geopolitical context or listen to your neighbors.

    1. Re:Nice Propaganda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      1. Maybe you do not understand CAFE Standards. Please help me understand how producing more expensive and profitable SUVs (after killing CAFE) helps Americans buy cars, when the net result of CAFE was US companies produce more inexpensive (and economic) cars?

      2. Simple economics, if a country has a high standard of living, then countries with lower standards of living can perform work for less. The only way to counteract that is to force the high standard of living people into a lower standard of living to compete. Is that the conservative plan?

      3. Your lie, "the left-wing importing illegals in the hope of getting more voters", is truly laughable.
      The real driver here is that the primary employers of illegal immigrants are agricultural corporations (farming, meat packing) and service industries (landscaping, food service), who want to employ people at low wages, who cannot contact police or unionize if abused by their employer due to their "illegal" status.

      Are you a paid shill, or just stupid enough to believe the vomit that you spew?

    2. Re: Nice Propaganda by PCM2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Funny you should mention "batshit insane"... you seem to believe illegal immigrants can vote, when not even Green Card holders can do that.

      Better close your curtains; Hillary Clinton and the CIA might be spying on you while you post!

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  10. H-1B: Theory vs. Reality by Nova+Express · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Theory: "We want the very best developers and engineers from around the world to supercharge the American economy!"

    Reality: "Hey, my cousin Sanjay knows Sharepoint. Let's write the job rec so narrowly tailored that we can get him into the country on an H-1B."

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