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The Majority of Scooters in LA Are Going To Share Your Location With the City (cnet.com)

Los Angeles is pumping the brakes on scooter companies that won't tell it what part of the city you're wheeling around. From a report: Last September, the Los Angeles Department of Transportation said it would require all scooter companies to provide real-time location data on the vehicles to help with city planning purposes. The data is collected by GPS on the scooters. The requirement raised privacy concerns because sensitive data would be handled by the city government. The government partners with data aggregators, like Remix, to analyze that information. Privacy advocacy groups, including the Electronic Frontier Foundation and the Center for Technology and Democracy, have publicly spoken out about these data requests.

It still isn't clear how long LADOT retains the location data, and there aren't public details on what aggregators can do with that information. What is clear: Companies that don't share the data won't be allowed to put as many scooters on the streets as those that do. Companies that declined to provide the data were given a 30-day provisional permit to operate in LA, which were handed out last week, while those that agreed to hand over anonymized location data received permits for a full year.

24 of 64 comments (clear)

  1. Re:And... ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Yes, working for a living. That's something we all shouldn't be doing according to a large portion of the population. Instead, we should vote the correct politicians in office to give us all the food, housing, and medical attention we need without having to earn it.

  2. Re:And... ? by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 2

    Privacy is a safety valve. The socially unacceptable often makes life enjoyable.

  3. Got a few networked Fusion Centers waiting? by AHuxley · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Who in the network of US city/state and federal data sharing will get to move new transport data round?
    Usage patterns of movement?
    What roads, pathways, parks need upgrades due to changes in transport usage?
    Who is using what transport, where and when?
    High Intensity Crime Areas? Will police get real time movements? Like with CCTV on a nice new GUI and map?
    Have that new police ghost car all ready?
    Will that connection with a city be worth the fake ID detection risk? To stay in a networked city with fake ID?
    Got a fake ID? Using/sharing parts of another ID? Created an ID when it was more easy?
    CCTV and lots of extra facial recognition will be ready to ensure all transport is working well.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    1. Re:Got a few networked Fusion Centers waiting? by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Posts like the gp seem to be AI bot experiments on responding.

      So the real question is how does the training feedback handle post responses? Mod level can work as reward or punishment, and so can number of replies...

      Oh shit, I'm helping it out.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  4. Here's what they're collecting by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Typical clickbait headline. Nothing is being reported during the trip, and the minimal information being reported doesn't include any personally identifiable information so there's no opportunity for misuse of the data down the road. I don't see the issue -- the city certainly has an interest in knowing where these things are being littered about when they're not in use. FTFA:

    "Route information is provided to the city after the trip has completed and within 24 hours and it doesn't include the name, age, gender, address of the user," the agency said in a statement. "LADOT is asking companies to provide the start trip and end trip of every vehicle as trips start and as trips end to make sure scooters are being parked legally and within the terms of the permit."

    1. Re: Here's what they're collecting by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 1

      Why doesn't the city just require everyone to put a GPS on their cars to ensure they are parked in permitted locations?

      It would be hard for this to be a less apt analogy. Car owners are incentivized not to park those cars in the middle of the street or the middle of the sidewalk because they, the owner, will be ticketed and/or will have to pay to retrieve the car from impound, and in the meantime won't be able to get where they want to go. Someone who just spent a buck riding a company's scooter around on the sidewalk that they're never going to need again (if for no other reason than there are hundreds of others around if that one goes away) could give a fuck less. They know the company isn't going to be able to come back on them, because "someone else must have moved it after my ride was over!" and a score of variants.

    2. Re:Here's what they're collecting by alvinrod · · Score: 1

      Judging from other bike sharing programs in big U.S. cities, most will end up in LA's concrete river. No need for any tracking.

    3. Re:Here's what they're collecting by noodler · · Score: 1

      "LADOT is asking companies to provide the start trip and end trip of every vehicle as trips start and as trips end to make sure scooters are being parked legally and within the terms of the permit."

      Wait, didn't the article say the tracking was just for 'city planning' ?
      But here they state that it's for finding parking offenders.
      So this is already being abused outside of it's stated scope.

      "Route information is provided to the city after the trip has completed and within 24 hours and it doesn't include the name, age, gender, address of the user,"

      Which is obvious BS as the devices will certainly send some sort of ID which can then be related to other databases which DO contain your name, age, gender, address, race, political stance and a whole lot more stuff about you you were never told was being collected.

      So your post seems rather pathetically ignorant about the true nature of these kinds of systems and how they are and will be used against you by your government.

    4. Re:Here's what they're collecting by jenningsthecat · · Score: 1

      ... the devices will certainly send some sort of ID which can then be related to other databases which DO contain your name, age, gender, address, race, political stance and a whole lot more stuff about you you were never told was being collected. So your post seems rather pathetically ignorant about the true nature of these kinds of systems and how they are and will be used against you by your government.

      I came here to say pretty much what SlaveToTheGrind said, but you make a valid argument, and I'm re-considering my position as a result. I suspect you were modded down because of that gratuitous 'pathetically ignorant' jab you tossed in at the end. Raising a point is sufficient - there's no need to slam it down on the head of whomever you disagree with.

      --
      'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
    5. Re:Here's what they're collecting by noodler · · Score: 1

      It was more meant as an observation than an insult.
      I really think its pathetically ignorant if in this day and age you don't know databases can be combined. This has been an issue for the last, i dunno, 15~20 years or so.
      There is real pathos to this type of ignorance, just as there is with arguments from climate change deniers and flat-earthers.

    6. Re:Here's what they're collecting by Can'tNot · · Score: 1

      I'm way more concerned that the summary was talking exclusively about debate centered on whether these companies should be handing over data, and not about whether these companies should be collecting that data in the first place.

    7. Re:Here's what they're collecting by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Nothing is being reported during the trip, and the minimal information being reported doesn't include any personally identifiable information so there's no opportunity for misuse of the data down the road.

      That's a ridiculous thing to say. Prepare for ridicule!

      You have to pay for these services somehow. You also will likely ride past various cameras. Your identity can reasonably be correlated with your trip. Your quote doesn't say they're not passing identifiable info, only that it doesn't include specific info.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:Here's what they're collecting by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Actually you aren't. Government tracking is misused in dictatorships to help those in power stay in power.

      Corporate tracking (beyond what is needed to make the system optimal) has two prongs:

      1. Selling targeted advertising
      2. Government getting access without a warrant

      The former is small potatoes compared to the latter. Google and Amazon are only interested in whether you are more interested in Pampers or Depends.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    9. Re:Here's what they're collecting by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Btw because I posted the words Pampers and Depends, I can expect to see advertising for them on other web sites later today. Or even right now already.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  5. Re:And... ? by rtb61 · · Score: 1

    The soon to be wildly socially unacceptable e-scooter. Corrupt lobbyists got that one past. So you are going to mix, people entering and exiting buildings with motorised scooters that can do 20Km/h and carry 100kg, can you idiots not see the problems. The more you have the more problems you will have and the more actual knock down brawls you will have. In the typical American style after an incident, I paid for the scooter and I have more right to the footpath, get out of the way. Idiots will be bowling over small children all over the place. The footpath should only be for feet or and only once proven for disabled people and mobility vehicles that should move no faster than a person walking fast. Scooters are not at all manoeuvrable, tending to work best in a straight line and any sudden turn will see a 100kg rider tossed into a pedestrian at 20k/m at hour, so pretty much full running speed, a full sized human male doing a full speed running tackle on a small child, the idea is insane. Either on the road or banned and definitely no in high pedestrian flow areas. Walk in a city and you will bump into people, neither here nor there, do it at 20km/h and there will be brawls and lots of them and with fair reason when a child is seriously injured. Stop listening to idiot lobbyists pushing silly shit fed by nothing but insane greed.

    --
    Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  6. Hilarity insues by slashmydots · · Score: 2

    If you've got warrants and rent a scooter and police have to chase you while you're trying to evade them on it, you'll be internet-famous in about 3 seconds. That's definitely cruel and unusual punishment. This is clearly not constitutional.

  7. Re:Bike lanes by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    Did the scooter get stuck in waste and trash again?
    A tent city block the pathway again?
    Parked RV in bicycle lane?

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  8. Scooter RENTAL companies, not scooter companies. by Moskit · · Score: 1

    Relax, LA is not enforcing data sharing on all scooter manufacturers, this is just for the rental companies that offer scooters within that specific city.

  9. Don't use them by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    The lesson technology companies seem to be teaching us in the 21st century is NOT to use technology companies. Interesting business plan. I await the internet 2.0 where companies figure out they will get customers if they actually offer privacy features.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  10. Fucking paranoids by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

    The scooters don't share your location with LA, they share their location. Only the scooter company tracks where you are going - which you somehow don't care about.

    --
    Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    1. Re:Fucking paranoids by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      I really don't understand how people are allowed to continue in their position after writing and approving headlines like these. And I don't understand how their bosses are allowed to continue in their position after not dealing with their employees' appalling inability to think critically or write functionally.

      As you point out, the scooters won't share "your" location with LA, only theirs. On top of that, "your" is a very, very small number of people (scooter riders in LA) compared to all the people who will be reading that headline. How fucking hard is it to write, "LA now requires rental scooter GPS reporting to enforce permits"?

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
  11. Re:USA racing to beat China (and UK) by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

    Can't wait to say "We're #1!"

    In oppression. Surveillance. Civilian control.

    Clinical Paranoia.

    --
    Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  12. Fucking moron by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    The scooters don't share your location with LA, they share their location. Only the scooter company tracks where you are going - which you somehow don't care about.

    The scooter company knows who took that trip. LA can use that information to determine that a scooter user was in the area, then use a warrant to get the identifying information. They can also correlate the scooter data with other data in order to identify users.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  13. It's just one extra step by Uberbah · · Score: 1

    Typical clickbait headline. Nothing is being reported during the trip, and the minimal information being reported doesn't include any personally identifiable information so there's no opportunity for misuse of the data down the road.

    Sure sure - until the usage database is cross referenced with the payment database. I'm sure the NSA will never think of doing that.