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Much To Oracle's Chagrin, Pentagon Names Microsoft and Amazon as $10B JEDI Cloud Contract Finalists (techcrunch.com)

Posted by msmash on from the how-about-that dept.

The Pentagon this week announced two finalists in the $10 billion, decade-long JEDI cloud contract process -- and Oracle was not one of them. From a report: In spite of lawsuits, official protests and even back-channel complaining to the president, the two finalists are Microsoft and Amazon. "After evaluating all of the proposals received, the Department of Defense has made a competitive range determination for the Joint Enterprise Defense Infrastructure Cloud request for proposals, in accordance with all applicable laws and regulations. The two companies within the competitive range will participate further in the procurement process," Elissa Smith, DoD spokesperson for Public Affairs Operations told TechCrunch. She added that those two finalists were in fact Microsoft and Amazon Web Services (AWS, the cloud computing arm of Amazon).

56 comments

  1. A good sign... by EndlessNameless · · Score: 4, Interesting

    At least the government is capable of making good decisions from time to time.

    Amazon and Microsoft are leaders in the cloud industry for a reason.

    I'd pity anyone who got stuck with Oracle's service.

    --

    ---
    According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
    1. Re:A good sign... by Freischutz · · Score: 2

      At least the government is capable of making good decisions from time to time.

      Amazon and Microsoft are leaders in the cloud industry for a reason.

      I'd pity anyone who got stuck with Oracle's service.

      With a bit of luck Larry Ellison will spontaneously combust and burn to a neat pile of ashes, like a vampire exposed to sunlight, out of sheer annoyance over this development.

    2. Re:A good sign... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least the government is capable of making good decisions

      Just because you don't make the worst possible decision doesn't mean your decision is good.

    3. Re:A good sign... by KlomDark · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why? I've worked with both AWS and Azure, and I'd personally pick Azure as the better service.

      Is this just some archaic "MS Bad" shit from the 1990s, or do you have actual facts?

    4. Re:A good sign... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I doubt the DoD subscribes to your 1990s religious crusade and uneducated perceptions of "The Micro$shaft"

    5. Re:A good sign... by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Why? I've worked with both AWS and Azure, and I'd personally pick Azure as the better service.

      Is this just some archaic "MS Bad" shit from the 1990s, or do you have actual facts?

      So far it is experience.

      First, in our case, it was bad choice to try to move a predominately RHEL system of systems to a MS platform. It just plain isn't as friendly to RHEL as we would like.

      If you are a MS shop, likely as not, you would do better in Azure.

      So far, in Azure, we've had them basically kick the power cord out from under a BUNCH of systems, even on different availability sets....black out, power down, too most of a morning to come back online.

      They fsck up in Azure. That's not supposed to happen.

      So far, they are not that responsive.

      I don't know as much about AWS, only the shortcomings of MS Azure so far.

      We came from a VMWare setup, where you could easily snapshot a VM and restore it if needed. This isn't quite as easy on Azure.

      And trying to get a VM custom rigged with the exact CPUs and RAM you need, is impossible, they have pre configured VMs, and you have to choose from them...can't dynamically add RAM or CPU...has to take a whole step up in VM configs they offer. If you need one with only more RAM, you are SOL....it comes with much more CPU too, and of course, much higher monthly $$$'s.

      I suppose if you are coming into Azure, with mostly MS windows servers, it would be easier. If you can buy preset items from their 'store' offerings, I supposed it is nice.

      But if you are predominately a RHEL outfit..if you depend on Oracle and not MSSQL...if you have a lot of custom apps and server configurations you are moving from a regular data center to Azure cloud, well, it is definitely PAINFUL.

      Oh...and often for unexplained reasons....their VMs get really SLOOOOOW...command line take a long time to react even.

      And they aren't really good at telling you when they are doing things to the hosts underneath you...and you can find problems with your servers that are hard to track down...till you can find out MS did something under the covers without telling you.

      Yeah..its painful.

      I've not used AWS yet...but I have to imagine in our case, it would have been a bit more friendly and easy to transition to.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    6. Re:A good sign... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In spite of lawsuits, official protests and even back-channel complaining to the president, the two finalists are Microsoft and Amazon.

      Yes, and this is even *before* they're an Oracle customer. I think that kind of signals "We're the sort of 'partner' you'd cut your arm off to escape."

    7. Re:A good sign... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so basically you are pissed off that managing servers in a public cloud is different than your VMWare environment? Also, sounds like all your VMs are undersized if they run slow. Everything I do in Azure performs exactly as you'd expect any server to perform unless I try to cram 10KG of shit into a 2KG bag

    8. Re:A good sign... by scdeimos · · Score: 1

      And trying to get a VM custom rigged with the exact CPUs and RAM you need, is impossible, they have pre configured VMs, and you have to choose from them...can't dynamically add RAM or CPU...has to take a whole step up in VM configs they offer. If you need one with only more RAM, you are SOL....it comes with much more CPU too, and of course, much higher monthly $$$'s.

      AWS isn't any different here. These are not on-prem systems running in ESXi where you can just change allocations in vCenter or vSphere - it's a shared hosting environment.

    9. Re:A good sign... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In other words, you're complaining that Azure isn't as good as your hypothetical cloud service provider that doesn't exist. That's an unfair comparison.

      In reality, no cloud provider does what you want - all of them (when used as IaaS, infrastructure as a service) let you build your infrastructure on their platform. You still need infrastructure engineers, but instead of them plugging in cables and moving hardware, they design the configuration from the building blocks the cloud provider gives. (Major difference; if there is a hardware fault, the cloud provider will deal with it. But you have to design your system around the limitations and guarentees your provider gives you.)

      On any provider, the best value is when you can redesign your application to work in the provider's ecosystem (e.g., on Azure, you can run a low-power SQL Server Databse for $20 a month or so, and you don't have to patch or otherwise maintain it. But it isn't your server, so server-level stuff (e.g., sql server agent jobs or linked servers) behaves differently and isn't always going to work for every application - unless you can modify the application.)

    10. Re:A good sign... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if you think AWS let's you add memory 4MB at a time you are wrong.
      if you think AWS VMs with 2GB of memory magically perform well even though the application requires 16GB, you are wrong
      if you think the majority of VMs running in Azure are Windows, you are wrong
      if you are looking for a cloud that puts Oracle first, head on over to Oracle. On the way there you can save time by punching yourself in the face repeatedly starting now.

    11. Re:A good sign... by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 1

      If you buy into AWS, you are stuck with AWS... even the "offline versions" are half assed and held together with duct tape and crazy glue. The only possible way to run AWS is if you have the entire operations team at Amazon constantly tweaking, tuning and running around changing hardware.

      If you buy into Azure, you have the option to fallback on Azure Stack... while you'll still be stuck with MS from now and to forever, you have the option to host it yourself or on a separate provider.

      Right now, the only fiscally responsible decision for "cloud solutions" is actually Azure because you can in fact run it offline and have some minimalistic amount of control over your own future.

      I actually do a lot of cloud projects and while I use a lot of Docker and sometimes even Kubernetes if I really have to, these are just tiny little bits of a platform. A proper cloud solution starts with storage first... this means object storage, document storage, table storage. It centralizes all aspects of "cloud scale" scaleout of this storage. Then it provides a networking backend that companies like Cisco would call SDN but cloud vendors would just call networking. Then they provide container and VM orchestration.

      You can build your own "cloud service" if you really want to, but the work to do it is VERY VERY expensive and requires companies 100% devoted to it. This is what made IBM CICS/DB2/RPG/COBOL so amazingly successful for so long. It takes a mega corporation to build and maintain this.

      On the other hand, you can buy Azure Stack or rent online... and skip all that crap and ditch most of your IT operations staff.

    12. Re: A good sign... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      10kg of most stuff fits easily into a bag that weighs 2kg. I can put about 200kg of water in a 2kg polypropylene bag.

      Perhaps you mean liters instead of kg?
       

  2. Huh, weird by Ecuador · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Weird, I thought Oracle would tick all of government's boxes. I mean, I thought potential for unthinkably ballooning costs is what usually gets you government contracts?

    --
    Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
    1. Re:Huh, weird by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 3, Funny

      Weird, I thought Oracle would tick all of government's boxes. I mean, I thought potential for unthinkably ballooning costs is what usually gets you government contracts?

      They were okay with Oracle charging them per CPU but balked when Oracle changed it to per CPU Register.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  3. As it should be by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Both have FedRAMP, both have strong privacy and security policies, and neither is Oracle or IBM. All is right in the world.

    1. Re:As it should be by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The phrase that comes to mind is, "Your reputation precedes you."

    2. Re:As it should be by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Imagine a company that's so shit that techies think Amazon and Microsoft are the better choice. And they actually aren't even wrong.

  4. I'm surprised... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    As much as Trump hates Jeff Bezos, I am surprised that Amazon was even a contender.

    1. Re: I'm surprised... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe because trump doesn't get to make those decisions. He's only the president aka a puppet.

    2. Re:I'm surprised... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      As much as Trump hates Jeff Bezos, I am surprised that Amazon was even a contender.

      Many people inside DoD detest Trump. He has denigrated veterans, and many were appalled at the way he treated James Mattis, who was very popular inside DoD. This is the Deep State pushing back.

    3. Re:I'm surprised... by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      many were appalled at the way he treated James Mattis

      A lot more were unsurprisingly appalled by Mr. Bone Spurs's treatment of John McCain even after McCain had died.

      This is the Deep State pushing back.

      Or maybe it's just behavior that a cast member of "The Real World" would've been ashamed of.

    4. Re:I'm surprised... by gtall · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Or how about Asshole picking on Bush Sr.'s DEAD wife. Then he recently took a shot a George Washington, apparently he was stupid for not naming Mt. Vernon after himself. Uh...I guess an entire fucking city doesn't count, and he didn't even have to put his name on it. It was named for him out of respect.

      There's something we'll never see, something named for Trump out of respect.

    5. Re: I'm surprised... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lmfao no he doesn't, he fucks things up. Obama was 100 times better than trump, anyone who likes trump is clearly retarded and not fit to live in america.

    6. Re: I'm surprised... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "things"

      Such as? Failing to get funding for his wall, and stealing it? Failing to get cheaper health care for Americans? Failing to make a reasonable tax plan? Failing to help the economy or win any trade wars?

      What "things" has Trump gotten done, exactly?

    7. Re:I'm surprised... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's something we'll never see, something named for Trump out of respect.

      Trump Pacific garbage patch? Make garbage great again. MGGA

  5. Oracle sues in 3... by IWantMoreSpamPlease · · Score: 1

    ...2.....1

    At least this is how I understand Oracle behaves when they lose big contracts.

    --
    So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
    1. Re:Oracle sues in 3... by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      The rumor is Oracle has more lawyers than technicians.

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    2. Re:Oracle sues in 3... by Gilgaron · · Score: 1

      Its government procurement, they'll be told to sit down until it is rebid in X years.

    3. Re:Oracle sues in 3... by PPH · · Score: 1

      Just like the Northrop Grumman/EADS KC-30 contract.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    4. Re:Oracle sues in 3... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      In government procurement, the best strategy is to go over the heads of the bureaucrats, and appeal directly to congress. That is how Boeing won the KC-X contract despite an inferior plane at an inflated price.

      The Speaker of the House represents Oracle's home state, so that is a good place to start. She controls DoD's pursestrings.

    5. Re:Oracle sues in 3... by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

      Oracle sues in 3...2.....1

      They already did. They sued the government in December in the United States Court of Federal Claims.

      The judge granted a stay of the lawsuit requested by the DoD while they investigated possible conflicts of interest.

      The DoD completed their investigation and decided there were no conflicts of interest, but there may have been other ethics violations. Presumably the DoD's report is controlling in the lawsuit, though nobody has said yet what the disposition of the lawsuit will be.

  6. Aw shucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was looking forward to Trump nationalizing Oracle over a contract dispute and shutting them down.

  7. Amazon by darkain · · Score: 1

    Huh. Thanks for that explanation in the summary, I have absolutely no idea that Amazon was part of Amazon.

    1. Re:Amazon by Ecuador · · Score: 1

      Don't be a smart-ass, it says "Amazon Web Services" is part of Amazon. Unlike dozens of unrelated companies with "Amazon" in their name (the UK-only search returns ~400, like Amazon Tech, Amazon Cars, Amazon Enterprise etc).

      --
      Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
    2. Re:Amazon by darkain · · Score: 1

      And yet, Microsoft is just "Microsoft" instead of "Azure"

    3. Re:Amazon by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

      Don't be a smart-ass, it says "Amazon Web Services" is part of Amazon. Unlike dozens of unrelated companies with "Amazon" in their name (the UK-only search returns ~400, like Amazon Tech, Amazon Cars, Amazon Enterprise etc).

      Exactly.

      Like...
      Amazon Personal Jet Packs
      Amazon Fresh Flowers
      Amazon Incontinence Products

      --
      We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
  8. Oracle need to call Bob Goldstein by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

  9. can be sure.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    one can be sure that Microsoft and Amazon paid at least, if not far more than, the minimum level and number of bribes necessary.

  10. My money is on Azure by edi_guy · · Score: 2

    There is a very personal grudge between the current Whitehouse and associates against all things Bezos. Best AWS can hope for is to sue for time and hope there is a changing of the guard.

    1. Re:My money is on Azure by Gilgaron · · Score: 4, Funny

      As long as anything the President has to see just says "AWS" they'll slip on through. He'll have a Jedi Cloud for the Space Force powered by AWSome as far as he's concerned.

  11. entrenchment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gov: Hi Oracle its time to rebid. Can you operate AWS and Azure?

  12. That's because.. by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...they decided that Oracle would be much more appropriate for the SITH contract.

    1. Re:That's because.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...they decided that Oracle would be much more appropriate for the SITH contract.

      Now you have me wondering how Trump gets cast in this space-opera.

      The Emperor? Suits him I suppose. But no. The Emperor is a supranatural strategist. Trump just listens to Fox News and the voices in his head.

      How about Jar-jar? "Meesa make a muy muy bigly space-a-force! Muy classy! Marble TIE-fighters!"

  13. On the other side of the globe, agencies celebrate by ffkom · · Score: 1

    ... the age where military data and infrastructure have become soft targets, with any security concerns outsourced into oblivion. Meanwhile at Intel, new "enclaves" and "management engines" are being designed that allow malware to be installed and hidden even more persistently and undetectable.

  14. Not Enough Dick Sucking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Clearly, Larry hasn't been sucking on the correct dicks and clits in the national giveaway system. Take a lesson from Oregon, Larry. Our local leaders are thoroughly satisfied with your daisy-chained satisfaction. You must be doing something right, because we keep giving more and more business to your endless black sucking hole.

    Citizen Oregon
    â± divide by 000 error

  15. Not Enough Dick Sucking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Clearly, Larry hasn't been sucking on the correct dicks and clits in the national giveaway system. Take a lesson from Oregon, Larry. Our local leaders are thoroughly satisfied with your daisy-chained satisfaction. You must be doing something right, because we keep giving more and more business to your endless black sucking hole.

    Citizen Oregon
    â± divide by 000 error

     

  16. Worry not, Oracle. by Hallux-F-Sinister · · Score: 1

    Master Qui-Gon Jinn will take you on and train you as a JEDI anyway.

    If anything happens to him, his padawan Obi Wan Kenobi will take over for him, and I’m sure that’ll all turn out fine.

    The Force WILL be with you, Oracle. Always.

    --
    Our reign has gone on long enough. Indeed. Summon the meteors.
  17. What do you expect? by yodleboy · · Score: 1

    Funny how Microsoft has embraced a less predatory way of doing business but Oracle is not only stuck in the 90s, they are still refining the tactic.

    1. Re: What do you expect? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nadella is smart , he knows he had to adapt or die. Ellison was too dumb to figure this out

  18. Larry + NSA = 3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    poor, poor Larry Ellison. to go from "what the hell even is Cloud Computing" to his blood beak losing out on suck megabillions more Ye Joe Tax Payer.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FacYAI6DY0

    but Larry can still take console in his guaranteed annual income from the NSA. such as their FASCIA database, which way back in 2004 was "one of the largest Oracle databases in the world, holding 85 billion records, with 125 million added per day, storing up to 48 months" of all of your data which NSA spies on, with plans to upgrade it to more than double the capacity and storing all of the data of your life for to 7 years.

    https://search.edwardsnowden.com/docs/TheRewardsofMetadata2016-12-07_nsadocs_snowden_doc

    and as if FASCIA wasn't enough for "poor house Larry", he can also take solace in Oracle hosting the database for NSA PINWHALE (slide 31), which is basically the same thing as FASCIA. (why build just one illegal global Panopticon database when you can build 2 at twice the price amirite?)

    https://search.edwardsnowden.com/docs/TransnationalDNItraining–PINWALE2017-11-30_nsadocs_snowden_doc

    poor house Larry won't be begging for cuckbucks anytime soon. Oracle is after all one of NSA's closest and most trusted "Corporate Partners"

    https://search.edwardsnowden.com/docs/NSAStrategicPartnerships2014-05-13_nsadocs_snowden_doc

    Larry even said it himself--"NSA spying is essential, i just hope they're not spying on #me2" (sorry to burst your bubble Larry, they are spying on you too, along with all of us)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq41o0YsNTE