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White House, FCC Unveil 5G Push and $20B Fund For Rural Broadband (cnet.com)

The White House on Friday will unveil a new 5G push to position the US ahead of global rivals in the race to deploy the next-generation wireless technology. President Donald Trump and Federal Communications Chairman Ajit Pai will announce new airwaves auctions and plans to spend $20.4 billion over 10 years on rural broadband. From a report: The FCC will auction off three segments of millimeter-wave spectrum -- which can offer insane data speeds but has limited range -- for commercial use. The auction is scheduled for December, FCC Chairman Ajit Pai said on a conference call with reporters ahead of the White House event. He said the FCC plans to auction off 3,400 MHz of spectrum in three different high-frequency bands. "This will be the largest spectrum auction in American history," he said. Pai went onto say that this auction, along with others planned for the future, are putting the US on a good path. "The US is well-positioned to take a lead in 5G," he said.

The FCC is also announcing the Rural Digital Opportunity Fund. The agency plans to reallocate $20.4 billion from its Universal Service Fund over the next 10 years to subsidize eligible companies to build out broadband infrastructure in underserved areas. The money will be allocated to internet service providers that can provide a minimum of 25 megabit per second downloads in areas that are currently in need of connectivity, Pai said. He added that the new infrastructure will also help bring 5G to these rural areas. "There are a number of startups that are working on millimeter wave technology to bring 5G to rural America," he said on the call.

117 comments

  1. Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 0, Troll

    Why can't they build their own rural coops and do it themselves using private enterprise?

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by flippy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's much more expensive to do that in underserved / rural areas, and that's exactly what the Universal Service Fund was designed to help with.

    2. Re:Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by flippy · · Score: 1

      The cost doesn't change, but the USF was established so that it could help defray those costs.

    3. Re:Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by WindBourne · · Score: 2

      yes, but not needed.
      4G is already there, and sats are coming with decent speeds/times. So, better to use 4G for phones and let the sats(or the phone companies) compete for rural broadband.
      What I find interesting is that the feds can happily subsidize RBOCS, etc to compete against true free enterprise, and oppose local govs from doing fiber as utility.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    4. Re:Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Didnt we already give huge amounts of money for telecoms to do this?

    5. Re:Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by flippy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The fact is, that the USF already exists, and unless the laws change, it's not going away. So why not use it for its intended purpose?

      As far as market forces doing it better and cheaper, they haven't. The very fact that even Republicans at this point are advocating use of the fund for helping with some of the costs bears that out.

    6. Re:Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      There you go. See, we already paid for it.

      Cancel the telecom execs bonus payments and any salary over $100,000 until they roll it out.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    7. Re:Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      someone doesn't understand what socialism is

      another victim of America's public education system

    8. Re:Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by wierd_w · · Score: 5, Informative

      worse--

      The telecom industries were paid handsomely in the 90s to roll out a next generation fiber optic backbone infrastructure.

      They laid a very small amount of fiber, and pocketed the rest of the money, then shrugged when asked where the money went.

      https://www.techdirt.com/artic...

      I see this all over again. Especially with Pai at the helm of the FCC.

    9. Re: Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Nah, this is Trump supporting private enterprise because he only picks WINNERS like Herman Cain who is the Godfather of Pizza!

    10. Re:Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WillAffleckUW concerned about the scarcity of tax dollars? I must be dreaming.
      Just for fun, try pricing out an install of fiber in a large area where everyone lives 1/2 mile or 1 mile from their nearest neighbour, and seeing what everyone would have to pitch in up front or be charged subscriptions to break even in a reasonable amount of time.
      That's why most everyone in the sticks goes wireless (cellular, commercial wireless, or satellite)

    11. Re:Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It is a waste without oversight of the companies involved.

      Money spent previously did not result in usable broadband despite the companies claims.

      Those companies should not receive and further funding.

      Same goes for cellular, my phone always says 4g, however it is to slow to use with ridiculous latency.

    12. Re: Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It will deliver cable at 1.2X LTE speeds with 96kbs upstream! The power

    13. Re:Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Socialism is fine as long as it's for a GoP demographic."

    14. Re:Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that comment was meant to be snarky, the more typical Republican stance on issues like this is government agencies should stay away and let the free market handle it.

    15. Re:Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it's already there, why are there billboards all over the area near Mount Rainier begging "Please bring us cell phone service!" Note, not broadband, not cellular data - cell phone service at all. There's poor / no coverage of any kind of cell service out there period.

    16. Re:Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But there is no such thing as a free market and that NEVER works.

    17. Re:Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's much more expensive to do that in underserved / rural areas, and that's exactly what the Universal Service Fund was designed to help with.

      This is true, but there is a big elephant in the room. The main "justification" that the ISPs give for having regulations rolled back is that it will allow them to "spur innovation" and create a better experience for the customer. The claim that rolling back net neutrality, for example, was necessary for them to be willing to invest in infrastructure.

      So, where is this infrastructure? You're telling us citizens and tax payers that, despite getting pretty much getting everything you wanted from your captured regulators... what, still no infrastructure? Still need to government to day? Doesn't seem very "innovative" to me.

      It's all BS, of course. The only "innovative" products the ISPs understand are new, innovative billing models.

    18. Re:Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It comments like this that make me absolutely love paying taxes to help the underserviced, knowing that you hate it more than anything and are paying it too.

    19. Re:Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The fact is, that the USF already exists, and unless the laws change, it's not going away. So why not use it for its intended purpose?

      But the FCC and the ISPs can't have it both ways (actually, they can, and it's frustrating).

      They claim the need an unregulated environment so that "market forces" can somehow make everything cool, but it's not. Where are these market forces now? They were supposed to spur innovation and infrastructure investment.

      I hate ISPs. They lie too much.

    20. Re:Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WillAffleckUW did talk about co-opt, so that would probably mean up front investment for everybody involved. Those distances you mentioned are not that long, but I still would expect a few thousand dollars of payment per estate. Plus the maintenance and connection afterwards, cost of which would be shared among the co-opt members. I think microwave links were good for 10-20 km per connection but those installations with the towers and the supporting network could be still quite expensive.

        I do wonder when the private enterprise mentioned will try to deny such arrangements within their territory as some sort of public benefit community network violating their sanctioned monopoly position.

    21. Re:Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by FictionPimp · · Score: 1

      Seems like the money is always spent incorrectly.

      https://www.dailyyonder.com/op...

    22. Re: Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The infrastructure is the fact that I can go almost anywhere in the US outside a national forest and login to /. to read dumbasses saying there is no infrastructure.

      You are an idiot. You think your phone works on magic?

    23. Re:Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      worse--

      The telecom industries were paid handsomely in the 90s to roll out a next generation fiber optic backbone infrastructure.

      They laid a very small amount of fiber, and pocketed the rest of the money, then shrugged when asked where the money went.

      https://www.techdirt.com/artic...

      I see this all over again. Especially with Pai at the helm of the FCC.

      Then why aren't you and the other 99,999 citizens launching a petition to get a fucking answer to that bullshit?

      Taxpayers deserve to be fucked when they bend over and ask for it via silence.

    24. Re:Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by Strider- · · Score: 1

      That map is missing a lot of stuff. For example, Chelan and Douglas counties both have PUD fiber, which supplies gigabit FTTH to virtually every address in these rural counties, for an extremely reasonable price. Once you have the fiber installed, the citizens have a choice of some 10 ISPs, 6 or 8 TV providers, and a dozen telephone companies. Total access fee for the fiber is something like $15/mo, and the ISPs are about $20.

      --
      ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    25. Re:Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ....I see this all over again. Especially with Pai at the helm of the FCC.

      Ultimately, this is a good use for jail cells. If they get public money and defraud the public, put all the leadership in jail unless they can pay it back out of their own money.

      Seriously, you can't have contracts that mean anything without enforcement, and blaming the little guys at the company for the decisions of their leaders is useless.

      For that matter, if there is any legal way to address previous failed promises, that should be done.

    26. Re:Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by jwhyche · · Score: 3

      The telecom industries were paid handsomely in the 90s to roll out a next generation fiber optic backbone infrastructure. They laid a very small amount of fiber, and pocketed the rest of the money, then shrugged when asked where the money went.

      No, they laid the fiber. They laid ass loads of fiber in rural area. I used to live in bumfuck Alabama, the only internet I could get was satellite or dialup. AT&T came through dug up the whole county, and laid shitloads of fiber. They even ran it down the side of an abandon logging road. There was a fiber trunk 100 feet from my house.

      The agreement was they would lay the fiber but there where no provisions to actually use it. They laid the fiber, like they where supposed, they just never set up the fucking infrastructure to make it useful.

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    27. Re:Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why haven't the market's forces done it yet?, and why are the market's forces making my Comcast keeps costing more and keeps giving me a terrible service?
      Also.. We're not in a capitalist country (This is more something like the transition from the feudalism), if the market producers need to spread miss information (Marketing and ads are against the capitalism's most important rule: All the participants in the market must be well informed.. no gray areas, they must know the truth in order to act accordingly) and destroy competence to survive (Consolidation), those producers will become less efficient and prone to destroy the market and since our society is built around the market society our society will collapse too.

    28. Re:Sounds like a waste of scarce tax dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most people think socialism is the opposite of capitalism... And they even believe we're in a capitalist country.... we're not in a capitalist country, we were in a capitalist country for a very short period, now we are in something more like the initial transition to industrialization, we're like in the 20's again.

      Also most people don't understand the meaning of a government, why we make laws and why we build a society, most people seem to like something that looks more like anarchy without exactly knowing that anarchy while poor will bring slavery again.

  2. BOO! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    BOO for killing high frequency S band weather radars in the US.

  3. Fiscal responsibility? by Freischutz · · Score: 1

    The White House on Friday will unveil a new 5G push to position the US ahead of global rivals in the race to deploy the next-generation wireless technology. President Donald Trump and Federal Communications Chairman Ajit Pai will announce new airwaves auctions and plans to spend $20.4 billion over 10 years on rural broadband.

    And here I thought the Republican Party was the party of free trade, competition, small government and fiscal responsibility that cannot abide the sight of subsidies?!? Shouldn't we go easy on the irresponsible payments of subsidies and instead wait and watch the always rational, invisible hand of the free market fix the rural broadband problem?

    1. Re:Fiscal responsibility? by flippy · · Score: 4, Informative

      While I'm no supporter of a lot of Republican policies, I'm actually with them on this one. According to the original article, they're planning on reallocating those funds from the Universal Service Fund - and this sort of thing (getting telecom services to underserved / rural areas) is exactly what the USF was intended to help with.

    2. Re:Fiscal responsibility? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "haha here's an argument I don't believe in and wouldn't work on me, better luck next time kiddo"

    3. Re:Fiscal responsibility? by WindBourne · · Score: 2

      I think that Trump/GOP are subsidizing this to compete against 1-web, starlink, etc.
      Sadly, they are great with subsidies when it helps their favorite businesses who fund them.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    4. Re:Fiscal responsibility? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a giveaway, pushed for by some lobby. And it will not be for "poor, rural folks".

    5. Re:Fiscal responsibility? by flippy · · Score: 1

      Downvoted? I don't think so. I doubt you had the mod points to do it.

    6. Re:Fiscal responsibility? by Freischutz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is a giveaway, pushed for by some lobby. And it will not be for "poor, rural folks".

      I just love watching the Republicans rage on about the looming dangers of "SOCIALISM!!!" and then turn around and do something as classically "SOCIALIST!!!" as subsidising broadband installations. Mind you half the money in that fund will probably end up in the pockets of telco executives as bonuses for using the other half of the money to get people in rural areas 3rd rate broadband for which they will then have to pay 1st rate broadband prices.

    7. Re:Fiscal responsibility? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does Slashdot have a code for extreme sarcasm?

    8. Re:Fiscal responsibility? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This is a giveaway, pushed for by some lobby. And it will not be for "poor, rural folks".

      I just love watching the Republicans rage on about the looming dangers of "SOCIALISM!!!" and then turn around and do something as classically "SOCIALIST!!!" as subsidising broadband installations. Mind you half the money in that fund will probably end up in the pockets of telco executives as bonuses for using the other half of the money to get people in rural areas 3rd rate broadband for which they will then have to pay 1st rate broadband prices.

      What the fuck do you mean "probably"? Obviously you're not very aware of history. We the Taxpayers have already paid these fuckers for this shit before. Go figure what actually happened to the money.

    9. Re:Fiscal responsibility? by wierd_w · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It certainly is, but I would look very closely at the agreement before signing off on it.

      I remember the 90s, and the 200bn that got wasted because the telecoms wanted a handout on government dimes.

      Poaching the USF with promises of what it is supposed to be used for, without actually delivering, is the actual track record here.

      I would only support this kind of deal if there were strong liabilities for failure to deliver. I am talking board and CEO jail time levels of liability here.

    10. Re:Fiscal responsibility? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FYI, if it is a republican plan to invest in infrastructure, then you can rest assured that it will eventually result in the privatization of government property, i.e. a corporate give-away

    11. Re:Fiscal responsibility? by flippy · · Score: 1

      I'm not against some sort of oversight or at least accountability here, but at least this is a step in the right direction - even if it's a small step.

    12. Re: Fiscal responsibility? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tie interest rates on the money to customer satisfaction. Cities can than vote each time they meet if the telco made due on providing service and maintains their network that month.

    13. Re:Fiscal responsibility? by Narcocide · · Score: 1

      They're just not very well informed on stuff that doesn't involve destroying society so they can attain their glorious religious apocalypse while getting rich in the process. Someone over there must have just finally figured out that the decades-long stifling of rural broadband roll-outs negatively impacts their own voting base dramatically more than it does the Democrats.

      Either that or they have known all along and they just now noticed that the voting base finally got a clue about it.

    14. Re:Fiscal responsibility? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And here I thought the Republican Party was the party of free trade, competition, small government and fiscal responsibility that cannot abide the sight of subsidies

      You think wrong. The Republican Party is the one that STARTED the road to Big Government and Big Business working together.

      Lincoln couldn't have won the Civil War if not for the cooperation of various businessmen providing their goods and services. It's no coincidence some of those businesses enjoyed government contracts during/after the war and became Robber Barons^WCaptains of Industry.

      The Reconstruction and Transcontinental Railroad were big government projects headed by Republicans.

      The Progressive movement had its beginnings in the Republican party. Teddy was an R before he split to do his own thing, which cost the party the election. The remaining Republicans who were indeed for small government and free markets took back the presidency the next election, but they are the exception, not the rule. These free market Republicans were soon pushed aside as the Great Depression hit, followed by WW2.

      Since WW2, Republicans only pay lip service to being free market and small government. In practice, both parties are big government. The arguments are more over how to run this big government.

    15. Re:Fiscal responsibility? by religionofpeas · · Score: 2

      Mind you half the money in that fund will probably end up in the pockets of telco executives as bonuses

      That's not socialism, though.

    16. Re:Fiscal responsibility? by Freischutz · · Score: 1

      Mind you half the money in that fund will probably end up in the pockets of telco executives as bonuses

      That's not socialism, though.

      No, that's the other part that isn't socialist, the part where they pay themselves massive bonuses is pure mindless capitalist greed. If Republicans cannot do Christianity without changing it into a cut of mammon, did you really think they could do socialism without injecting a massive dose of selfish greed?

    17. Re:Fiscal responsibility? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go ask Greece, Italy, all of Eastern Europe, France, China.
      This is EXACTLY what socialism IS.

    18. Re:Fiscal responsibility? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      >I would only support this kind of deal if there were strong liabilities for failure to deliver. I am talking board and CEO jail time levels of liability here.

      I would only support it if the big ISPs -- Comcast, ATT, etc. -- agree to stop suing municipalities who attempt to lay municipal fiber. Either you're capable of rolling our broadband, or you're not. You shouldn't be able to sue a government because you want a monopoly in an area and complain about unfair competition, and then turn around and ask for help in other, less profitable areas.

      I'm tired, as a tax payer, of subsidizing your profits.

    19. Re:Fiscal responsibility? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed! How many times is the government going to use our tax dollars to pay big telecom companies for the claimed rural expansion they keep saying they will do and then don't? There definitely needs to be consequences for the fraud they have committed.

    20. Re:Fiscal responsibility? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      Sadly, they are great with subsidies when it helps their favorite businesses who fund them.

      As are the Dems. Or did you really think they were handing out OPM out of the goodness of their hearts?

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    21. Re:Fiscal responsibility? by nmb3000 · · Score: 2

      I remember the 90s, and the 200bn that got wasted because the telecoms wanted a handout on government dimes.

      Never forget this anytime you see big telecos complaining about infrastructure costs, or smothering co-ops and municipal ventures which need to make use of utility poles and easements.

      The Book of Broken Promises: $400 Billion Broadband Scandal (or a summary from the author) should be required reading for any lawmakers involved with the USF or FCC.

      --
      "What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
      /)
    22. Re:Fiscal responsibility? by Freischutz · · Score: 1

      This is a giveaway, pushed for by some lobby. And it will not be for "poor, rural folks".

      I just love watching the Republicans rage on about the looming dangers of "SOCIALISM!!!" and then turn around and do something as classically "SOCIALIST!!!" as subsidising broadband installations. Mind you half the money in that fund will probably end up in the pockets of telco executives as bonuses for using the other half of the money to get people in rural areas 3rd rate broadband for which they will then have to pay 1st rate broadband prices.

      What the fuck do you mean "probably"? Obviously you're not very aware of history. We the Taxpayers have already paid these fuckers for this shit before. Go figure what actually happened to the money.

      I said 'probably' because I'm just making an educated guess when I say half. Given how greedy these people are it's bound to be more but I thought I'd be conservative and go for the traditional minimum.

  4. interesting. Whose equipment? by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    America does not make the 5G equipment. Are we buying from Europe, or China, specifically, Huawei? Also interesting that Trump/GOP want to subsidize this when multiple sats are about to come on-line with 1G bandwidth with 20 ms pings across the globe and for under $70/month.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:interesting. Whose equipment? by DogDude · · Score: 1

      Also interesting that Trump/GOP want to subsidize this when multiple sats are about to come on-line with 1G bandwidth with 20 ms pings across the globe and for under $70/month.

      I would imagine they've been getting some good bribes recently from the telecom industry.

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    2. Re:interesting. Whose equipment? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a retard.

    3. Re: interesting. Whose equipment? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please provide a link for that satilite service.

    4. Re: interesting. Whose equipment? by flippy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'd like to see that link, too.

      Let's look at some basic electronics and physics:

      According to Wikipedia, "Low Earth orbit (LEO): geocentric orbits with altitudes below 2,000 km (100–1,240 miles)"
      Let's look at the minimum of that range: 100 miles.
      Electromagnetic waves travel at approximately 1 foot / nanosecond.
      Meaning 5.28 microseconds per mile.
      So, 528 microseconds for 100 miles.
      1056 microseconds for the round-trip to the satellite.
      That's 1 ms right there, just for the electromagnetic waves to travel up to the satellite, and the response to travel back down.
      Double that, because here's what has to happen:
      Ping goes from user to satellite (~0.5ms).
      Ping goes from satellite to ground station (~0.5ms).
      Ping goes from ground station through terrestrial infrastructure (no faster than with wired broadband).
      Response comes through terrestrial infrastructure to ground station (no faster than with wired broadband).
      Response goes from ground station to satellite (~0.5ms)
      Response goes from satellite to original ping initiator (~0.5ms).

      As an electrical engineer with an extensive physics background, I'd be pretty impressed if they could get that all done in 20ms or less.

    5. Re:interesting. Whose equipment? by Narcocide · · Score: 2

      20ms to a satellite? You've been lied to, son.

    6. Re: interesting. Whose equipment? by religionofpeas · · Score: 1

      If I add up all your delays, it's still much less than 20 ms. It's even less than the 7-8 ms I get right now, pinging my ISP over VDSL.

    7. Re: interesting. Whose equipment? by flippy · · Score: 2

      What I'm saying is that by going to a satellite, you're adding those delays - an absolute minimum of adding 2ms, and that 2ms is only if you're directly underneath one of the satellites - onto whatever time it will take for the ping to travel through the terrestrial infrastructure (note where I said "Ping goes from ground station through terrestrial infrastructure (no faster than with wired broadband)" and "Response comes through terrestrial infrastructure to ground station (no faster than with wired broadband)"). Unless you've found a way for those electromagnetic waves to travel faster than our current understanding of physics allows them to.

    8. Re:interesting. Whose equipment? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sat is always the fallback and should never be the primary means of connecting pretty much anything. This is just an excuse for a fucktarded country that can't seem to do much of anything right. Why actually fix anything properly when you can turn everything into a cluster fuck of shit.

    9. Re: interesting. Whose equipment? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe its not 20ms, but your description paints a great case for the spirit of the original post... that low latency, satellite based internet is imminent.

      Even if we double everything you outlined... 4ms overhead as a result of the satellite link is amazing. A 50ms terrestrial ping becomes 54ms, or fuck, even 60ms over satellite - but is obtainable everywhere? Not sure why we had to break out the calculators here to fact check this at all.

      My guess is the rush to subsidize this NOW is so that the money goes to incumbent wireless providers instead of newer, potentially better alternatives on the horizon.

    10. Re: interesting. Whose equipment? by flippy · · Score: 2

      I'm saying an absolute theoretical minimum of 2ms added, and that's only if you're directly underneath one of the satellites, otherwise the travel path is longer, and therefore so is the added delay from the propagation of the electromagnetic waves.

      That's not taking into account any delay introduced by the electronics in the satellite itself, or the ground stations.

      I'm not saying that usable satellite internet is impossible, but I am saying that it's probably not as easy or as close to rollout as some might think.

    11. Re: interesting. Whose equipment? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From what I understand, there are at least two companies with proof-of-concept satellites in orbit, I think space-x and another company based out of France. Not the scale required for market, but this isn't exactly cold fusion we're talking about here.

    12. Re: interesting. Whose equipment? by flippy · · Score: 1

      Proof-of-concept is one thing, but some of the posters here are talking about it as if it were commercially available now, or will be next month. That's what I'm taking exception to. And as far as quoting pricing loooong before commercial availability, that's nothing more than wishful thinking.

    13. Re:interesting. Whose equipment? by flippy · · Score: 1

      Nobody's been lied to - yet. To quote you, "Starlink is projected to operate around 25 to 50ms". Projected. All I'm saying is let's not tout this as the be-all and end-all solution until we see it actually working at the projected performance and price points.

    14. Re: interesting. Whose equipment? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What makes Starlink different from other satellite solutions? Current satellite solutions have limited bandwidth with higher ping times. Satellites in Geostationary orbit are 35,786 km (22,236 mi) away. That distance creates real world ping times on the order of about 600 to 1200ms. Since there will be over 4000 Starlink satellites they can be in lower orbits reducing the distance between the end user and the satellite. Shorter distance makes for better ping times and Starlink is projected to operate around 25 to 50ms.

      Skip the costs of other sites. Just stay within the sat network:
      Ground station to satellite, stay in space bouncing through a few satellites, then down to ground station.
      Avoiding the numerous hops in terrestrial infrastructure (including going through NSA) is why they have multi-layered constellations.

      I would say that Windy overestimated it a bit, but Windy/Starlink/1-web/Amazon appear closer than you are.

    15. Re: interesting. Whose equipment? by flippy · · Score: 2

      At the moment, all of this is projections of performance and cost. Until we see it working, it's all just projections. If they can pull it off, my hat's off to them! But I don't think we should say things like "about to come on-line" - that makes it sound like it's gonna happen next week.

    16. Re: interesting. Whose equipment? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I'm not saying that usable satellite internet is impossible, but I am saying that it's probably not as easy or as close to rollout as some might think.

      The existing GEO satellite internet is perfectly usable for ordinary purposes. You can stream SD video, you can download things quickly... granted, some crappy websites that do a lot of back and forth chatter between site and browser are painfully slow, and realtime interactive gaming is right out, but satellite internet isn't horrible.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    17. Re: interesting. Whose equipment? by sims+2 · · Score: 1

      IIUC this is the current status:
      Oneweb has 6 in orbit.
      Starlink has 2 in orbit.
      Telesat has 1 in orbit.

      Then there are at least four others Boeing, Facebook, Leosat and Amazon who have announced intent and don't have anything in orbit yet.

      --
      Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
    18. Re:interesting. Whose equipment? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're probably thinking of GEO, where you have to send the signal our 36,000 km. The new satellite internet being proposed is in LEO, less than 2,000 km, and involves many more satellites to reduce maximum hop distance. The difference is stark. Less than 100ms would not be difficult to achieve.

  5. Telecoms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are a number of startups that are working on millimeter wave technology to bring 5G to rural America

    Because the established telecoms can't be bothered to invest directly? Maybe they all need more tax breaks and subsidies so that they can compete on buying those start ups when the infrastructure templates are ready.

  6. More handouts to rural takers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All these predominantly conservative voters are takers and on the government dole. Why should we, liberal makers, continue feed the vicious cycle of dependency? They should roll up their sleeves and build their own god-damn broadband internet instead of asking us to pay for it.

    1. Re:More handouts to rural takers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      False all around.

      I expected more from commenters on /.

    2. Re:More handouts to rural takers by flippy · · Score: 1

      False all around.

      I expected more from commenters on /.

      You must be new here to /.

      It's been some time since there wasn't a ton of crap comments on any given thread.

    3. Re: More handouts to rural takers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because they are the True Americans, white, Christian and inbred.

    4. Re:More handouts to rural takers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      flippy is just too attached to his trough to think clearly, being on the dole and all that. Probably posting on /. from his free Obamaphone.

    5. Re:More handouts to rural takers by flippy · · Score: 1

      I'd love a free phone! Unfortunately, I have to pay for my phone, my service, and my broadband, with the money I earn from my job, you know, like it's supposed to work.

    6. Re: More handouts to rural takers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are not supposed to get paid, that would ruin the economy.

  7. 5G for rural areas? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "There are a number of startups that are working on millimeter wave technology to bring 5G to rural America,"

    Well, it was stated right in the summary that 5G has limited range. Good luck covering any area that is classified as "rural" with 5G.
    The last mile of 5G will be provided my micro cells covering at most a few hundred meters (that is a quarter of a mile, at most).

    1. Re:5G for rural areas? by Radical+Moderate · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that's the tell. 5G isn't going to do anything for rural broadband, the fact that Pai is spinning it that way proves this is just welfare for the telecom industry.

      --
      Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
  8. Broadband for Cows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Moo.

  9. Give the money to LEO sat internet companies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    solved, and it will only cost you a billion. your welcome US government. Sorry US telcos that wanted to gorge themselves on that trough (again).

  10. SpaceX,, Amazon versus Verizon by edi_guy · · Score: 1

    If the US Government was directing a ton of money to a space based internet system run by SpaceX or Amazon, one would imagine /. community would go crazy with people yelling about unfair subsidies. But somehow if the same money gets dropped in AT&T/Verizon's lap it's ok? Despite the fact that these legacy telcos haven't done crap for rural broadband...ever. And indeed tend to fight community based providers that try and pick up the slack.

    1. Re:SpaceX,, Amazon versus Verizon by flippy · · Score: 2

      Well, if we're being fair here, we'd have to say that it's either OK in both cases, or in neither case.

      And the outlawing of community-based providers? To me, outlawing them is an abomination. Let community-based players try, just like anyone else.

    2. Re:SpaceX,, Amazon versus Verizon by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      If the US Government was directing a ton of money to a space based internet system run by SpaceX or Amazon, one would imagine /. community would go crazy with people yelling about unfair subsidies. But somehow if the same money gets dropped in AT&T/Verizon's lap it's ok?

      Well, if we're being fair here, we'd have to say that it's either OK in both cases, or in neither case.

      I don't know that's fair. I think it's reasonable to feel differently about those things. Musk actually delivers on his government contracts. The telcos, on the other hand...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:SpaceX,, Amazon versus Verizon by flippy · · Score: 1

      I can see your point. To my mind, there should be consequences to any company getting a subsidy if they don't deliver. Maybe like "if you don't deliver, we expect repayment of the subsidy."

  11. Get sales but staff wont work in area. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your asses are going to be fried. What do you need to get that is a huge file on your phone that you couldn't get on WiFi sa afely? 4g is already fast enough to grab a blu-ray rip by the time you have time to grab a snack and drink from a store then apparently sit in your car away from anybody with wifi available to watch it. You can stream whatever in Starbucks already on WiFi if your 4g is bad reception.

    The waves put out from 5g smash on your DNA. You really need to stream that hour of Wendy Williams Show while sitting in your car 25 miles from stores in the woods... in 5g/4k ?

    They are just selling. Your fault if you buy and fry.

  12. Free Money to the network providers by ripvlan · · Score: 3, Informative

    Something like this was provided in my home state. Fraud allegations are flying. Smart business or poor management of funds? you decide.

    A local phone/internet provider VTEL received $116 million in state money to provide Wireless Internet to all the undeserved (aka the last mile). They built the Wireless towers but only 1200 people have service. Why? Just because there's a tower doesn't mean the signal reaches a house. The home may be 'round the edge of a mountain ridge or in a forest. Of those 1200 with service, many report okay quality until it rains or snows which causes quality to be more like dial-up.

    A federal program to do the same will line the pockets of the smart corps. The incentive needs to be paid for each customer signed up. In the VTEL case they were awarded money to build the infrastructure, and around here $116 million is a lot of $$ per person. There's just barely 600k people in the whole state and this corner of state in question has very very low population. I can see needing investment money to build the infrastructure because it is expensive. However, the goal of the program is to get people online. And I think that needs to be a large part of the stick/carrot.

    https://www.vnews.com/Money-Is...

    1. Re:Free Money to the network providers by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      Perhaps the VTELS of the world should be paid by the subscriber count and not by the number of towers built!!

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
  13. Making rural voters easier to brainwash by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Russia needed broadband to brainwash and will have USA pay for it!

  14. devil in the details by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The little details are VERY important. What happens when they don't provide universal coverage, yet took money to provide it?

    The FCC needs an independent inspector general, independent of the board and chairman, to keep then honest.(or rather, to
    make their actions accountable.)

  15. Another Handout? Yes Please! - by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Every time the government throws money at telecommunications companies to build broadband in underserved remote areas, it disappears and nothing changes. Every single time. It's almost like every cent of the funds winds up in the pockets of investors or something. It's so weird! I mean, we have that Universal Service Fund thing, right? What ever happened to that?

    Stop falling for this crap, America. Either take control of your telecommunications industry like a real developed country or stop throwing public cash at it, because they're never going to change as long as there are no real consequences for failure.

  16. Telcos by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was an executive 10 years ago in a telco which received significant amounts of government money to build out rural services. What did we do with some of this money? We used it to fight municipalities that were trying to build out their own locally managed Internet services. We employed a sizable number of lobbyists in DC to guarantee this annual revenue stream. The problem is worse than you imagine.

  17. We've heard this before by smooth+wombat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Back when Bill Clinton was president, the U.S. government provided ISPs with billions of taxpayer dollars to build out the internet infrastructure in this country. ISPs promised that within a decade, consumers would have 45/45 Mbps network speeds for a low price (can't remember the figure).

    Almost three decades later, the vast majority of people either can't get 45Mbps (download only), let alone 45 up, or the cost is not low.

    Now we're being told if we hand over more billions of our dollars, private industry will do what they said they would do those three decades ago.

    I wouldn't hold my breath.

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    1. Re:We've heard this before by antdude · · Score: 2

      Where did all that money go? Government should sue these companies in failing to complete that promise.

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    2. Re:We've heard this before by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But the companies *did* complete their promise, to fund the campaigns of the people who gave them all that money.

  18. It's only bad when other people do it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't that right WindBourne.

    You're clueless as ever. Or at least paid to appear totally clueless, not sure which is worse.

  19. Are you Retarded WindBourne? by CaffeinatedBacon · · Score: 1

    Are we buying from Europe, or China, specifically, Huawei?

    Do you seriously not follow any news at all?

  20. not needed? LOL already there LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You have no clue at all do you.

  21. oh my, you're a bigot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apparently you:

    1. think white people are bad.
    2. think Christians are bad.
    2. think white Christians are inbred.

    wow.

    Would you have presumed, and had the guts to post, that black Muslims are bad and inbred, or that yellow Buddhists are bad and inbred?

  22. Let the EMCs to do like they did for power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They need to quit giving all this $$$ to companies who's only interest is to take that money, deliver on a minimal amount of work then stall/delay anything further until it fades from memory (or the party in charge changes, etc.) and instead give it to the local EMCs to deploy FTTH to all the homes in their service area and give them a monopoly on service, similar to how they deliver power now. Rural areas are an exclusion to just about every rule, it's simply too expensive to really turn a profit, so companies that supposedly are there to serve rural areas, just take the money and run (here's looking at you Windstream). In my personal experience, I'm still using the same 1.5Mbps Windstream DSL that I had installed in 2006 when I built my home. If I call them now to see about upgrades, they actually do not offer the service I get, so I can either keep what I have or I can do without it. The local EMC in my county got a grant several years ago to start installing FTTH but on a very limited scale and recently they borrowed money to try to expand it but from what I've heard, they are struggling to keep it in the black. Its really hard to fight against the (essentially) free money that the competitor in the area (Windstream) is getting from the USF and then not really using it for what they are supposed to (of which I can attest). If this kind of money was provided to the EMCs to just get the job done then this would probably be a moot point, however it never happens because the commercial carriers do not want their cookie jar taken away.

  23. Windy doesn't understand time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He thinks cars will be all electric in just 2 years time