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Truely Flat CRTs
Josh Baugher
writes "Big Monitors Go Flat Mitsubishi and Viewsonic offer
big-screen monitors with truly flat CRTs.
Finally vendors have truely flat screens. (and they mention
a nifty 18" lcd display at bottom of article)." CRT
won't be dead any time soon at this rate- the prices are reasonable
for the 22" screen.
I think it was Zenith who used to make a dead-flat computer monitor. VGA, not even Super-VGA. But they never followed though with later models.
It was amazing to see. It was so flat, it looked concave compared to regular monitors.
There were some postings about trying to improve spelling on this site some time back. Rob could start that from the titles :)
Still can't afford one :
In the late 80s, yes, Zenith introduced a 14" VGA monitor (at the time there was no "SuperVGA"), which was totally, absolutely flat. It also weighed oh, 80#? It was obscenely heavy. The company I worked for bought 300 of them, and they are still in service to this day. Zenith also showed a 17" prototype around 1992 or so, but it was going ot be prohibitively expensive at the time to manufactur.
The reason the monitors were so heavy was (I was told), that flat glass doesn't like a vacuum, and is more prone to break, so the glass on the tube is 2-3x as thick as what it would be on a normal CRT... and this is where the weight is. Also, they had a HUGE powersupply to keep the system in check.
Overall, until Sony brought out the nwe WEGA flat-system (which I've finally seen in a monitor version, and is impressive), the Zenith definately was an amazing monitor, even by today's standards. The clarity, glare-free nature of it was truly awe-inspiring. Colors were just 10x as vivid, no glare, no matter what (even with a Maglite 2" from the monitor), and a crispness that beats my Nokia 447X (which until now I considered the best monitor available)...
'bout time someone else figured it out... too bad Zenith is dead, they really were the big innovators.
I've got one of these that I use with my Voodoo to play Quake on. The effect is really nice, though Quake doesn't have any of those beautiful ultraviolet purples that the monitor generates so nicely :)
I have some problem with the focus on the monitor, though.
Gas plasma displays are far superior in brightness, crispness and image quality and will replace CRT's completely by 2010. Sitting in front of gas plama display with a 16:9 aspect ratio is akin to sitting in front of a small movie screen. Running Quake on it was fun too.
As long as there is room for a drinking glass you have little cause for complaint.
Those sound really cool... Anyone have what the full product name/model number on those were? It'd be great to try to find a used one on the net.
Yeah they were heavy. The glass was very thick and *dark*; excellent contrast, the blacks were very black. Even had an AR (antireflective) coating, like eyeglasses/telescopes. Because of the dark glass they had to crank the beam, and the whole thing ran quite hot. The FTM (flat tension mask) was stretched tight as a drum to compensate for thermal effects. Overall a beautiful image, and some impressive engineering. Too bad it only went 640x480.
I'm still using mine. At 1024 x 768, until I saw the new Sony flat screens, it is still the best monitor I've ever seen.
Apparently Zenith had severe production/reliability problems with them. I once spoke to a Zenith rep who seemed to be surprised that I had one that worked. Actually my first one was DOA but it was quickly replaced. But the new Sonys are better (much better!)
rgrunsk@ibm.net
Oh it will happen someday but not too soon. CRTs are here for a while, why cost. Its getting cheaper and cheaper to make them not a as deep and bigger. All these new screen techs as still too damn expensive even LCDs are expensive when comparade to CRTs. Let us not forget that a factory in California has just started being built that will build ThinCRTs, only an inch thick with all the benefits of a normal one.
From what I remember of gas plasma displays, they weigh about as much as a small movie screen, too. I don't think they have a refresh rate either as pixels are either on or off. Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure someone will...)
that another technology, like Westaim's solid state device approach, won't reign supreme in another 11 years? Why bother predicting the supremacy of a particular thin display technology? Surely, such a product with a ceramic substrate is far superior to, not to mention less expensive, than a product with a glass substrate.
The problems with plasma in relation to other thin display technologies include: frailty, resistance to ultimate thinness, low resolution, high power requirement, short life, high cost and high manufacturing complexity.
It's also obvious that the only reason plasma even exists today as an option is because of the military's acceptance of it and the defense department's underwriting of it.
No, along with everyone else here, I haven't seen 16:9 Quake on a PDP, but that doesn't alter the facts anyway, nor does the fact that you have seen it make it any more likely that PDP will reign as the thin panel technology of 2010.
It is the only lcd panel above 15.3 inches which does NOT display 1280 x 1024.
The main difference between the ZCM1490 and ZCM1492 was that the 1492 was the first that didn't need it's own cooling fan. God, I loved mine, until the red gun gave out.
Compaq sold some Compaq branded 17" true-flats that sure looked like Zenith tubes, 3 inches of glass in front and all.
Norton
Yes--truely flat. I have a ZCM1490 at home that
I bought with my new 286-8MHz PC. Never had a problem with it. We have a lot of 1492's at work
and a few 1790's, one of which sits on my desk.
Our techs say they are the most reliable monitors
we have around here. Rarely a problem and easily
fixed where there is one. I won't trade mine for
anything I have seen yet. Could Mitsubishi improve on Zenith--I won't hold my breath.
Hmm... all the posts pertaining to spelling have had their scores knocked down to -1...
Hit a nerve, Rob?
;-)
Ayup. Absolutely, dead, freaking, ruler flat.
...methinks Mitsubishi's marketing department is
:-)
>
> getting lazy. Time for them to do some research.
Ayup.
some things are here to stay and the CRT is one because of its robustness Nothing ! yes nothing can do all the resolutions that a CRT can and they keep making it better and cost less but recently they (all the makers and distros) got toghther and sort of agreed to keep prices high ! well anyway
intresting pOint : Cambridge (somthing or other ) who are the leaders in light emitting plastic (LEP) and have investers from INTEL to genisis (the rock band) have got a whole new office outfit they are located in some feilds in cambridge UK and where for the past 3 years in portacabins the new stuff is to extend the lab and a whole new vent system !
John jones
johnjones@postmaster.co.uk
(spelling is so good because im deletic !)
And boy are they pissed about what a stupid decision THAT was!
You misspelled "trooly" there Rob...
#include "keep-up-the-good-work.h"
i've had a viewsonic monior for years now and I recently bought a 17" P775 and the quality is simply mind blowing.... just wanted to share it with the rest of you... :-)
I'm not the one selling them but I thought people on /. might be interested. Auction is ending 1/10 -> DUTCH 5-DAY only Zenith Flat Screen Monitors
Maybe because you've been fortunate enough to mostly use decent-sized monitors? Actually, I remember reading about that in the docs.
Im happy with my 17" CRT for many years to come.
Hey it cost me $50AUD and its damn good quality
and it does 1600x1200 damn fine, so unless they
make the same LCD/FED flat screens that can do 1600x for less than $99, im not changing. I have no need to change for many many years!!!!
But that probly wont be till 2007
ALL of the four companies in the world which manufacture CRT tubes have declared shutdown dates for their CRT lines. There will be NO CRT's manufactured after a point about four to five years from now.
Yeah, that's right. I read the news. Planar, the only company making and selling any worthwhile number of PDP's has mostly military customers, and has only survived over the years because of many defense department grants, and protectionist legislation to match, keeping companies like Fujitsu & Sharp out of the USA defense biz. Your not liking that doesn't change the facts. If you read more, you'd know this, too. And all of those relative weaknesses of PDP technology are well known to those in the biz.
One thing is worth mentioning about dot picthes though. As far as I know Trinitron tubes doesn't have diagonal dot pitches as the grid isn't really a grid, just vertical "lines". That's also why they need those two horizontal things to hold things together.
Sony has had a flat CRT model: the GDM-F500 (sees /gdmf500.html)
http://www.ita.sel.sony.com/products/displays/p
for several months. It must be good because it's
nearly impossible to get one: they disappear
as soon as they are listed as in-stock.
Posted by Mephie:
Only the 17"+ have '*two*' wires, anthing smaller just has the 1.
--Mephie
I'm pretty sure that the Mitsubishi is 20" viewable even though they call it a 22" monitor, which puts it in the same category with other 21" monitors. There seems to be a trend in the monitor industry to play games with the specs. Even dot pitch is being flubbed with, Hitachi states the horizontal dot pitch (which is often .21 or .22 mm instead of the diagonal dot pitch that most other companys state (which, for a monitor with a horizontal dot pitch of .22 mm would be about .26 mm) Also the maximum resolution on that Viewsonic monitor is 1920 x 1440, not 1600 x 1200. see http://www.viewsonic.com/prod/DATA SHTS/PT795.HTM
"Remember, there never were pineapple-almond cookies here."
Their website states:
"Mitsubishi Electronics is 'changing the face' of desktop computing with announcement of the world's first truly Flat-Screen CRT monitor."
Hmm.. if Zenith's monitor was a truly flat-screen CRT, then methinks Mitsubishi's marketing department is getting lazy. Time for them to do some research.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Loren Osborn
Loren Osborn
Seems to me that this is more the last gasp from the CRT technology. In a year or two's time, we should be seeing field emitter display (FED) and light emitting plastic (LEP) come out- these technologies look to change the landscape dramatically. LEP displays should be cheap and easy to make. FED displays are on a par with CRTs in complexity, consume less power and look as good if not better than CRTs. CRTs aren't dead- yet. They look to be on their way out though.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
For a moment I thought this article was about really flat monitors. But no, it's about monitors with a flat surface. This is nice of course, but I don't think they will be any competition for LCD monitors once they come down in price. It's about time we can get our non-virtual desk real estate back!
Don't Trinitrons have a shadow image of a wire going across the screen because of the way they're built? Others may be able to ignore such a "feature", but it would drive me up a creek!
Please, correct me if I'm wrong, I've never actually seen a Trinitron so I may very well not know what I'm talking about.
-Eric
The issue with the two shadows appearing on the screen is not as bad as one would expect. Personally, I never noticed those lines until I knew about this issue, and started looking for the lines. They tend to be almost invisible unless you have a flat white background.
cheers,
-- Elflord
Don't Trinitrons have a shadow image of a wire going across the screen because of the way they're built? Others may be able to ignore such a "feature", but it would drive me up a creek!
You are correct. This is also true for the Mitsubishi appeture(sp?) grill which I prefer to the Trinitron (perhaps because Sony is switching to cheaper electronics in many models?). However, you should check it out. The mind quickly learns to ignore those two horizontal lines. It will probably take a day until you would have to actually look for them to see them. At least that's been my experience.
BTW, I love my Cybervision 0.25AG monitor. It's a 17" running at 1024x768 at 100Hz refresh using a 8M Matrox Millenium AGP under X.
Cheers!
-- This is not a signature.
I checked for this on my Sony MultiScan 400PS 19" monitor. It's there; you'll only see it when you're looking for it on a white-backgrounded page.
I still swear by my Sony. I have a 21" NEC I bought some years ago, and I now do all my work on the Trinitron. Unfortunately, I think the quality of NEC monitors hasn't kept pace with technology; I used to be an enormous fan of them.
D
I recently bought a 19" Hitatchi. With an excellent dot pitch (0.23), very high scan rates, and a reasonable price, I thought it as a dream come true. However, even with all it had going for it, the display is still not as clear as a Trinitron monitor. If I were an IT manager who was assigned the task of standardizing on one type of monitor for my company, I would go with Trinitron-based monitors no matter what else was going on in the industry (unless those goings on meant an equally high-quality display).
----
"Oh, bother," said Pooh, as he hid Piglet's mangled corpse.
The grill on the Trinitron is so fine that it needs extra support, thus the two wires. This is what makes it so high-quality.
----
"Oh, bother," said Pooh, as he hid Piglet's mangled corpse.
The quicker CRT technology dies a death, the better. In 50 years time our grandchildren will
... :)
be amazed that we sat all day long in front of the dirty end of a particle accelerator.
That's assuming the radiation allows us to have grandchildren
Don't Trinitrons have a shadow image of a wire going across the screen because of the way they're built? Others may be able to ignore such a "feature", but it would drive me up a creek!
Yes, there are *two* wires. As everybody will tell you, one can get used to them. Personnally, I can't get use to a screen which doesn't show theses wires...
After getting a taste of numerous monitors, I have found the Trinitron monitors as the only ones I would bear. (I recently turned down a brand new 19" non-Trinitron monitor just to keep my aging 17" Sony :)
Only the 17"+ have '*two*' wires, anthing smaller just has the 1.
Ouch! I forgot about this one...
However, a quick check at Sony shows that only monitors smaller that 14" have ONE wire
Here is an extract:
http://www.ita.sel.sony.com/support/displays/faqs/
It was flat on the front, but it was concave on the inside. The new flat screens are TRUELY flat, you'd think you were looking at an lcd, except you can change resolutions.
Hmm.. mere pedantry here, but wouldn't curved screens be better? Curved, that is, towards the viewer to minimize distortion...