Slashdot Mirror
Web Tablets - Wireless Web Browsers?
Polaris writes "Article
in PCWorld
about web tablets, which are wireless handheld PCs,
about the size of a thick magazine with touchpad color
LCDs. Cyrix and Anigma are said to be releasing soon.
Although they both run WinCE, the Cyrix one is apparently
capable of running other os's." One of those puppies running
Linux would rule. Are tablets the future of computers? Maybe
if laptops put the muscle in the screen half, used touch screen
LCDs, and made the keyboard detachable we'd have something interesting.
>Maybe if laptops put the muscle in the screen half, used touch screen LCDs, and made the keyboard detachable we'd have something interesting.
Okay, that to me sounds like Apple's Newton (and I don't care what anyone says : the 2100 was waaaay cool, if horribly overpriced at $1,100 -- and the handwriting recognition worked a lot better than that grafiti crap).
=cray. (not anon.coward, just one of Katz's lurkers too lazy to set up an account).
"The design accommodates several operating systems, including ... an embedded version of Windows NT ..."
I only hope the products are less vapor than the operating systems they are supposed to support.
Do these things have any kind of local storage besides RAM? And do they have to operate through a PC or base unit? If they could work completely stand-alone, and had a decent amount of local storage, one of these pads would make a much better electronic book than most of the e-books that are currently available.
I thought the Cyrix model was using QNX.
Has anyone made a wireless tablet that plugs into a workstation, that is a replacement i/o device? I would want that more than a seperate device running its own OS.
(\x.xx)(\x.xx)
"Maybe if laptops put the muscle in the screen half, used touch screen LCDs, and made the keyboard detachable we'd have something interesting"
...
That describes a laptop that Compaq had out about 4-5 years ago. It came with a little stylus and you 'drew' on the screen to move the mouse. Not sure about handwriting recog, but it was a regular x86 laptop.
Anyone remember the 'pen computing' craze of a few years ago. It's a real shame it died
They're called Pilots, and they do the job nicely.
Oh, wait... wireless? Well, just as soon as Ricochet is delivered in sub-$200 form, that'll be no problem.
Or you could pick up that wireless modem that's advertised on all the Pilot sites -- unfortunately they only work in Jersey from the look of it.
If there's not going to be support for this, then there will be a lot of problems when having to access pages that require some sort of keyed input. I mean sure, a keyboard plug-in device will be nice, but if I'm in my jammies laid back on the couch surfin while watching TV, I'm not going to want to get up and plug in the keyboard just to enter a survey question or some such.
If not writing recognition, a simple stylus-enabled keyboard applet would be fine as long as it sent that output to the active inputbox on the web page.
These were pretty much what I read about in Scientific American in 1991. Some folks at Xerox Parc were saying they thought this was the way computers would go. Obviously they weren't thinking for web browsing, they were thinking instead of an organiser & notepad but the item looks pretty much identical to what they had back then.
I agree with this statment more then any other ones. If they all have/need a base unit why not just a base computer unit with say a charger built in and have the tablet be just a screen and "mouse" via touch screen? This would provide the most flexiblity and more then likely be cheaper to boot. Well thats what I want anyway
This begins approches the computer I have wanted for more than a decade now, a thin 8 1/2" x 11" tablet, no bigger than a slim magazine. They still need freeform stylus input though.
Whatever we end up with, it has to pass the tub test; can I play Civilization while taking a bath?
Kind Regards,
Bruce Hollebone
I don't want to see Linux running on webpad. I LOVE Linux. I use Linux for everything I do. I've been using Linux for over 5 years.
But I don't want to see the WebPad ruined by an OS. I don't want anything but the stripped down essentials on my WebPad. I don't want any crappy drivers, I don't want anything but a network link and a browser. I don't want the ability or complexity to load other software on the device.
I want a device that I can turn on and KNOW it will work. I want a device that I can hand to my father and KNOW he won't call me 10 minutes later and ask why it doesn't work anymore. I want an INFORMATION APPLIANCE >>> something that has a button with two positions 'on' and 'off'.
In the context of a "Browser Tablet" Linux is just as bad as Windows CE. Windows CE is such a lame idea in the first place... an OS for information appliances. The whole point of an information appliances is that it should be easy to use. As soon as you can load new programs you no longer has simplicity anymore... as soon as you've got drivers (worse yet, configurable drivers... worse yet self-configuring drivers) you've got a horrible mess that will never work unless you've got technical support people to help out.
Let's skip all the thrills of expanding Linux's domain in a virus like fashion to every platform around. Let's allow some devices to 'just work'.
Linux is the single most effective OS for servers (and I would say desktop workstations). Let's let it continue to do a good job there... but let's not shackle ourselves to Linux as a solution for everything. That's the way Microsoft thinks... one solution for EVERYTHING. Clearly this isn't smart. Linux is good for somethings, and there are lots of solutions out there that don't need 'Linux inside'.
VT220's? Bitchin'! Do you still have them?
They plug in to a standard serial line, right?
Cooooool...
(\x.xx)(\x.xx)
Oh, c'mon. It was a badly marketed, too ahead of its time product. Plus it never dodged its original bad reputation (from back in '93 or so). And Apple had too many things going on; they were going under & needed to concentrate on their core product line.
;)
Well, that, and I'm sure Jobs relished killing Sculley's baby.
=cray.
"...what a difference a year makes..."
A couple of guys had these things at a previous job. The concept was fine, but the implementation was a piece of junk. There was no handwriting recog; the pen was just a mouse substitute. I'm don't believe there was any decent pen-based keyboard emulation either. Most of all, it was buggy as hell; the pen didn't work half the time, and the other half, it interfered with any mouse that might be connected for desk use.
By the way, this was about the time the Dilbert "etch-a-sketch" cartoon came out, and that's just what this thing looked like.
Zenith had a gadget called a CruisePad a few years ago that did exactly this - no local OS, it was just a display/input device connected over a spread spectrum wireless link. I have only seen it running windows, I think it used Citrix or something of that ilk.
They sold a bunch (well , relatively) of these into healthcare, and the gadget was just getting popular as the Froggies (Groupe Bull) managed to drive off all the talent at ZDS.
I completely agree with you about having an information appliance OS that does not introduce clutter and one that we _know_ will always work. A simple and effective OS is all that is needed.
However I disagree about not using Linux. Perhaps Linux is its current form isn't the best option, but I think with a few reductions and changes it would be a wonderful OS for appliances.
We all know WinCE isn't stable enough and mostly an appliance doesn't need the Windows paradigm. With Linux we can introduce a Open Source information appliance OS that is stable and capable enough to allow hundreds of different interface designs while still being fast and completely versed in different communication protocols (the key to all great information appliances).
sbutts@purdue.edu
The WWW is basically boring. I'd rather have wireless IRC, usenet, and email than something to browse porn web sites while jerking off in the bathroom.
Sounds good to me. Of course my Newton 2100 has been working pretty well for two years now.
I really hope these take off. :(
I was going to build a linux based one myself (except mine was going to be 10base t) but the cost and time factors involved in building it from scratch were too great. What I wanted it for mainly was to take to the university's computer center or a dozen other spots on campus and jack in to the high speed connection. (here in Windsor Ontario there is no ASDL or cable modem) I know I can do the same with a laptop, but it would have been nice to have a tablet. The Clio by Vadem looks like a nice alternative to what I had in mind, but it only has one PC card slot which means I can't have a lan card and a HDD in it at the same time. That means no large downloads
I don't think the cyrix box will use CE as it has a MediaGX chip-set.
You mean, Linux will never make it with turnkey customer products like the Corel Netwinder, the cash registers of Jacob retails, the Qube server box?
/etc. Oh, BTW, have you ever tried out a recent Linux distribution with the equivalents of linuxconf? Saves a lot of hassle.
Sad.
You don't seem to understand that Linux is not tantamount to editing files in
Maintaining an existing Linux system (including some minor administration work if you so desire) is dead easy by now. Installation requires more know-how.
But I somehow doubt that people selling consumer devices will expect you to install and configure a generic system yourself. I have a hunch that they will deliver their device with the software already on it.
What would be cool would be a pen-based pad similar to this that could be used as a remote x-terminal! Then you could sit on the couch and
surf, code, preview enlightenment themes, etc all
in the cosy comfort of your favorite exported linux desktop.
Whoo! Sounds like an excellent kit!
...hanging on my belt (BTW, how one is supposed to carry that large and quite fragile thing? In a briefcase? under the arm? In the hand like a big clipboard? Even similar-looking things in Star Trek seem to be handled like big paper files are handled now, but those people have poor imagination anyway) and the most annoying problem is not a screen size or color (get rid of fluff, and everything fits nicely), not even a cable that connects PalmPilot with modem, or null modem/gender changer in it (fits nicely in the pocket), not even Metricom SE modem's antenna that sometimes refuses to stand upright, and not even a direction, where Metricom's LCD is pointed (away from me, not at the top where it can be read without turning it or disconnecting from the belt). It's a battery life time. Since the thing on the belt is not limited by weight as much as handheld PalmPilot or that WebPad, I have attached a pack of 4 "C" batteries to the same belt, so now the time, PalmPilot can spend constantly reconnecting to Ricochet is greater than the time, I spend outside of home, and things kinda work. However while people are accustomed to various stuff with antennas hanging off someone's belt, an open Radio Shack pack with batteries looks really strange to them.
With something that can be carried in the hand things are worse, you can't take a notebook without its carrying case and go around -- the weight of batteries that will last any reasonable time will be too much. Sure, Windows CE devices and PalmPilots normally work reasonable time, but most of people don't have wireless modems working as often as the purpose of this device suggests, and screens of PalmPilot and even some Windows CE boxes use less energy than magazine-sized color display of WebPad. If the problem with batteries will be solved, there is still some concern about those things being too large and fragile -- my PalmPilot fell from my hands/table/... multiple times, and once I had to re-solder its LCD cable (PITA with tools, designed for a bit larger components). Palm III case seems to be better, but what works for its size won't be of much help with large device unless something very radical will be done, like Palm III-style titanium case with screen cover.
I think, it will be a good idea to make a nice and inexpensive wearable with glasses-based display (with projection, reflected by the glasses, not "Borg-style" huge optical thing or "screen on the stick"). Glasses are easy to handle, easy to protect from damage, and they can be attached to the box (that can be heavy if necessary) with a cable, or even by RF link. Too bad, all displays of that kind, I have seen are either insanely expensive, or too low-quality to be of any use.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Posted by Stephen "The Carp" Carpenter:
Just some encryption thoughts....
We have always struggled with ITAR, and
now the Wassanar...
My thought is that all of the moral and practical
arguments mean NOTHING. There are 2 things we have
to realize to get encryption used and available
everywhere.
1)the USA influences International Policy
look at it... The USA is constantly going
around and bullying other countries to comply
with us.
2) the USA bends for one thing only: Big Buisness
One fine example was seen yesterday in an article
I read. The USA is on its silly religious
"Drug War" yet at one of the boarder entry points
at the Mexican boarder, out of 1300 trucks that
go through DAILY only 10-14 are checked for drugs.
What does this say? no matter how much the
poloticians go on their tirades and religious
quests...they let big buisness walk.
Look at it...if they searched every truck...
each truck driver would be delayed by over an
hour (I figured it out on paper yesterday)
and that means big buisness who moves the product
is loosing money for that hour.
What am I saying? I am saying that if companies
outside the US push encryption tech...and make
SURE that good encryption is not only used
but becomes a PREREQUISITE for doing ANY buisness
then the USA will bend because the corps will
want it to bend.
To do that...companies like RSA have to majorly
push their products on Big Buisness...make them
cheap and secure and not a hassle to use
That is the key
Posted by X-Calibre:
The Cyrix WebPAD could have many different configurations of hardware. Many of the configurations mentioned on this site are mentioned in this article at Cyrix. This baby can even support a harddrive if OEMs want to support it. It would be great to have my PC as a base for this thing. I'll start saving my money right now for when this comes out.
If this will run Linux, I'll buy one. Stretch out on the couch, old Star Trek re-runs on the Sci-Fi channel, and browse /. Now that is a relaxing evening. Oh, with a tall cold one within reach. Ah, civilized computing!!!
"shop smart:shop s-mart" ash
Yes with Linux. Why? Stability for one. Standarization across all one's boxen for another. All my machines (but one, for "business" reasons... (Read: Games)) run Linux. If I'm going to be running a tablet computer as well, it better be VERY compatible with what I currently use on my "normal" machines...
And as for the multiuser part.. Think of it as a profiling system for people using the tablet.
Not that Id believe Im one of the "elite" folks, but reading the same article over and over again, every two weeks starts to become sucky.
I use mine all the time. It's my alarm clock, daytimer, etc. I use it for e-mail while traveling, but not when I'm at home. I'd be lost without it.
Touch screens, flat little tablet computers, possibly just workstations/clients to the big ones...
:)
Could thin clients go tabletized?
Fun stuff
-Hoagie
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GIT(GCS)/J d- s+:+ a--- C++++ UL++ P+ L++ E- W+(-) N+ o? K- w--- O+ M+
In fact, CE is a complete re-implementation of Windows as far as I can tell - it implements a scaled down version of the Win32 API used by NT and Win95, but it doesn't share any code.
Microsoft is separately talking about an embedded version of NT, really designed for routers, thin servers, etc - no spec or dates on this yet, of course.
These things seem pretty useless to me. I'll stick to my PalmPilot which beats the pants off it and is much cheaper to boot.
Limitations are not features!
--Only a 500 foot wireless range. So it's good for reading on the john, but that's about it.
--Size of a thick magazine. Who wants that? That's how big my laptop is, and it does oh-so-much more.
--Color LCD. Well, for $500, its got to be some cheap-ass technology like dual-scan. A color WinCe device with its tiny screen cost up to a grand.
The current pilot keeps me in touch, and is useful for reading books etc. The Palm VII will provide wireless in a really useful way; easy and quick access to internet content and email. FYI, those interested in this should check out the video at ZDNet; there's a guy giving a demo of his Palm VII prerelease version.
or with any unix for that matter. web devices need to be simple simple simple. that means about as simple as the palmpilot.
/etc. if you like editing files in /etc, thats cool, so do i, but a mass-market product will never make it with software as complex as linux. you don't need a multiuser OS on your calculator.
/.'s don't seem to understand that simple means not editing files in
I have an eMate, which sort of came to me by accident (no Gollum/"birthday present" references, please). I didn't really get its potential at first, until I started playing with it and asking myself 'why do i like this so much?". Here are some things (which a well-made tablet would have) that made a lot more difference than you would have thought:
1) Silent operation. You would be surprised what a relief it is not to have the grinding of the hard disk and the whine of the fan. (the eMate's backlight whines, but one could imagine that being fixed in a later version, had there been one.)
2) Instant on/"off". I'm in the middle of giving a dialog box the "OK" and something pressing calls me. I just close the lid. When I come back, I open it and I'm immediately in the same place I was. It made me more likely to use it when I didn't have much time, because there was no time-cost "waking it up", etc.
3) Much more "anywhere" than a laptop. You can curl up in whatever position and use it to read, etc. for "comfortable position use" the pen is a huge improvement over the mouse.
4) (don't know if this would hold true in a tablet) about ten hours to a battery charge.
One way I see the tablet being used is to cut down on junk printing. Sometimes when i'm at the computer and I'm tired I print what I'm reading so I can sit somewhere comfortable and read it in any position I want, or while walking the baby around, taking it in the car, etc.
I think once you have one of these, you'll be surprised at how much difference it makes to be able to sprawl on an easy chair with it in your lap at a comfortable angle, scrolling with the pen, as opposed to being forced to look at the monitor and clicking a mouse button or "page down" or whatever.
As for text input with a pen--in addition to handwriting recognition, there is also the 'fitaly' keypad (http://www.twsolutions.com/), something else that can make a lot more difference than you'd think. An optional and hot-pluggable keyboard would be a good thing, though.
Liberty uber alles.
And I don't think I'm alone in this.
I've even heard rumors Transmeta might be looking along these lines.
Hi
;-)
Of course, the Palm III connected orgamiser
already has a Linux port and almost a JVM
Roll on the new radio-link Palm !
Asmo
/etc and cousins are just he underpinnings of the system. The interface is what determines the user experience. If these devices shipped fully configured, with a web browser as the interface, I think they'd be fine for everyone. The average user would have to see nothing but the browser; and running linux, it would just work. Simple enough?
(And why multiuser? I'd bet that there are folks out there somewhere who have bookmarks that they don't want their moms/dads/wives/boyfriends/drinking buddies/house pets to see... )
JHP
I've been of the belief for a few years now that portable network computing will be the dominant computing paradigm of the future. I expected that future to come by 2001, but I'm pushing that back a couple more years.
500 feet of portability doesn't do it. When these devices become truly portable by tapping into satellite or digital cellular networks, and when they become free of Wince (Go Palm! Go pMac!), and when screen and battery technologies improve further, then we'll have arrived.
Read Being Digital by Nick Negroponte.
higg
Thus sprach higg.
You only need to edit /etc if you are re-configuring the system. Why would a newbie be re-configuring the system? You don't see Windows newbies using 'regedit.exe' on Windows, and you won't see linux newbies editing /etc. The system is only complex if the user wants to do more advanced things than simply 'browsing the web' -- no matter what OS they are using.
A company named Cruise Technologies (now defunct) has been making a wireless Citrix client for several years now. A friend of mine put these to work in a cardiologist's practice. Very cool.
If they can get this stuff down to the profile of a letter sized notebook, get the screen dpi somewhere aproaching the even half the dpi of lasterjet output, and make it all seemlessly integrate with the network it would revolutionize the way we use computers.
Wouldn't do much for me at home, other than allow me to browse easily on the couch. But imagine the corporate application. Bring your wireless PC to the meeting with you. All your notes are in the PC. Someone wants to see your presentation? Zap it to their wireless PC. No more printing. Hurrah!
-josh
I have one of these. It came with Pen for Windows, which included handwriting recognition. I've had Linux on it, someone wrote a driver that allows you to use the pen as a pointing device. I've had OS/2 on it, you can buy the pen drivers & handwriting from IBM. It now has w95 with handwriting recognition.
I've never been patient enough to teach it my writing, or to learn the special characters for the non-letter keys.
I believe Compaq released something similar to this about 3 or 4 years ago. I thing it was part of the Armada line or possibly the Aero. It had a detachable keyboard,486/33 SX CPU, and a 256 grayscale 10" screen with a touch pen for cursor functions. You could put it on your lap and use it as if it were a notepad. It also had a software extension for Windows 3.1 that allowed to to recognize handwriting on a limited basis. Never caught on...maybe it was ahead of its time?
You guys keep saying "that'd be nice to put linux on it when it comes out" but there are already several products that are touchscreen laptops. Most with attached keyboards, one or two without. Here are two of them:
- Fujitsu Biblio MC8 - touchscreen laptop (2.6 lbs, P200-233)
- Panasonic CF01 - touchscreen notepad, external keyboard (2.2 lbs, Am586-133)
There are more, but these are the ones I could find easily.Additionally, wireless networking is starting to be cheaply available (albeit a short range of ~150 feet indoors) - Diamond HomeFree costs only about $100-$150 a node. CHEAP compared to previously available wireless network cards! NOTE: Proxim is offering a product (Symphony) hat has identical specs. I'm not sure whose product is whose here. I suspect that proxim is the mfg, and diamond is OEM'ing it.