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Petition against Canadian CD-R Tax
Darren Morofke wrote to ask the Canadians in our audience to head over and sign a petition against the proposed CD-R tax. We had covered this tax when it was first coming around-let's see if we can help put a stop to this.
I hate our government. The CRTC just bumped up the percentage of Canadian music that has to be played on radios from 30% to 35%. That means more than 1/3 of the songs played HAVE to be Canadian. How the heck does this happen? Isn't our government supposed to listen to what the people want and if so, lets deport all the people who think they're too stupid to think for themselves and need the government to pick what they have to watch and listen to! Sheesh.
This tax just a way for the record companies to
make more money... Stupid SHE-LIED Copps (the despicable
minister who brought this legislation into being.) is
obviously in the back pockets of the lobbyists - I
wonder what her price was? A lifetime supply of Celine
Dion recordings?
But another way to look at this might be this:
Since (for every blank CD someone buys) money is paid
to the record companies, does it not stand that you
could use this as a defense in court?
"I plead guily your honor, but since I've already
paid the tax, they've received their royalties, so
I should be able to go free."
Dont you guys see.. This tax is good..
Just $2.50 per blank and it's completely legal to copy any music you want, because you've payed for it.
A really doubt a petition will make any difference.
The only time the Canadian Fedral Government gives
two shits what the people think is during an election year.
No one wanted the GST but that got rammed through
Parliment. There was strong opposition (and petitions galore)
to the new anti-gun law but that did no good either.
Once the lobbyists get thier filthy mitts on the
MP's the legislation is a good as passed.
I don't live in Canada, (thank god, heh) so I don't know the specific laws, or how this would work, but..
Doesn't this effectively legalize piracy? If you were taken to court over pirating music, recorded onto a CD-R that has the tax on it, would it be possibly to argue that you have in fact paid for the music in question? I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that the recording inductry up there was too blinded by the prospect of additional cash in their pockets to see the side-effects of this law.
Anyone who's a lawyer (or has the knowledge of one) care to comment?
Lemma. Gifts are not subject to taxation when sent from US to Canada from a private individual to a private individual.
Theorem. One can send money down in a letter in the form of acceptable payment (whatever the "dealer" wants), and subsequently (magically, right?) said "dealer" send you a gift of blank CDR[W]s in a strictly personal capacity.
Question. Will this work?
Why do people think that so many people (people who want to be succesfull and are not of the union mentality) move the fuck out of Canada.
Undemocratic, too much govt, stupid laws, excessive taxes, french socialism in Quebec etc..
I guess Canada just got a lot less likeable to the Graphics industry. If CD's are taxed, how can the imaging firms, who use CD's like Lays Potato Chips, stay profitable?
INVADE!
No doubt about it, Canada is one of the best places to live if you're poor and 'underprivilidged', but if you're successful, want to do something with your life, or are at all Capitalistic, it's best you head south until the leftists get out of Ottawa.
_Atlas_Shrugged_ should be required reading in Canadian schools.
my god people, this tax has nothing to do with preventing anything. it will not discourage piracy, it will not help support the starving canadian artists, and it most definitely does not legalize copying of copyrighted material. the law still stands. i don't know where people got this ridiculous idea from.
I wonder if this tax also appies to local software publishers? Do they have to pay the tax on their cds as well?
Mm eye brr egg inniz onn FIE!! RR!!!! HHHH!! ELLLL!!! P!
All Canadians whether or not you like piracy you must help to stop our government from crawling further towards pure totalitarianism. With BYLaws and smoking bans etc and multi-class constitutions we are becoming a communist state. Soon cops will walk the street and execute that guy who fed the polar bears and mooses .
Anyways it's every canadians duty to stand up and say I already pay 50% income tax and %14 whatever tax on everything bought bloody time I stop paying taxes like this!
...and buy your CDs in the States. C'mon, most Canadians live within 50 miles of the US border. Besides, dogs can't sniff CDRs, and they smuggle easily, and if you're caught, who's really gonna care? It's not drugs or guns. Border agents have more important things to be looking out for.
I said french socialism in Quebec. What part of that has to do with out west? Of course Canadian socialism isn't only a result of Quebec. It's a disease that started in many places.
If you are part of the 50% of slashdot readers that seem to be students according to the latest poll this response doesn't suprise me. Wait until you actually work for a number of years.
It is a great place to live because it's better than living in squalor in some other fucking part of the planet run by a dictator. But it's not what it could be.
I rather not hear either, and the thought that Im giving the "hip" 2.50 everytime i buy a CD pisses me off. the "hip" can go fuck themselves!
ummm....Quebec voted for separation ????
don't you comfuse that for election,AFAIK,i never seen any mention of QC being separated on TV.
AC
Yeah, you guys tried that already - and lost...too bad you don't know your history that well. Apologies for the ridiculous digression.
It's unfortunate that /. didn't post a link I submitted over a week ago.
Wired New reports on the issue, but what it mentions
(which everyone here seems to have failed to notice so far) is that this levy is still very much in the air.
"The government body that's supposed to administer the fund doesn't yet exist, and the Canadian government hasn't even decided how
much the levy will be, or to what it will apply." It's very possible that it will be as
as little as pennies per disc. Unfortunately, the ammendment is retroactive,
meaning that once the amount has been set, the government will be expecting payment for new stock acquired after Jan 1.
The same story was reported on CBC's Defintely Not the Opera this weekend as well.
I'm not saying I support it, and I definitely think that the details should have been sorted out ahead of time, but for now, people need to know the facts.
It would be cool if DNTO put that segment up on their page... a lot of people here could use good, clear, objective take on the story...
Wrongo, bucko.
A recent article in the Globe and Mail showed the results of a study comparing 'upper-middle class' families in both the US and Canada.
The studies did not use the exchange rate to compare assets. Instead it used a purchase-power rate. IE how much US$ vs how much CDN$ does it take to buy an apple? A car? A house? It turns out that the 'real' exchange rate is about 85 cents to the US dollar.
In addition, Canadians don't have expenses like Americans do. You don't have to pay for health care, for example.
In the end, the average 'upper-middle class' Canadian family retains $700 more per year. Not much, you say? Toss in lower crime rates, less pollution, easier access to community services, etc and I think it makes for one hell of a compelling reason to stay Canuck.
I will, however, admit this: a bachelor is better off in the US.
When you compare the size of Canadian record companies to the massive American media juggernauts down south, it's amazing that there's any Canadian artists around at all - but yet, we have some absolute powerhouses running around right now.
Without the CRTC Canadian Content laws, we probably would never hear bands like the Hip, Great Big Sea, Moist, Sarah M., Ashley the Fiddle Playing Poof, Barenaked Ladies, and so on - not to mention, our own mainstream "thangs" Alanis and Celene. Canadian artists need a bit of a leg up, or they drown in a sea of American Pablum long before they get "successful".
Anything that gets more money into the hands of Canadian artists and those who produce Canadian artists is a good thing - especially when it's so painless as this tax. A couple of bucks? Ohhh, that hurts.
Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.
DG
Glad you moved to the States - we won't miss you.
Oh, just don't get sick, and wear your body armour, and enjoy being led by the gang of goons and buffoons Yanks call "Congress".
And for the record, I work in the States too - but I live in Canada (commute across the border every day) and damn, am I glad I'm still Canadian. I only have to put up with dorks like you at work.
DG
It's good you think that way. I really think that my small company needs to be supported also. This is the way it was meant to be. I mean people have to buy my stuff instead of foreign stuff. Problem is most people won't do it on their own. This tax is a good thing to help people support a local industry.
I mean isn't the essance of a being a Canadian to be insecure with no self confidence and expect that laws be enacted to help us out simply because we try really hard?
I really think all Canadian companies should be supported like our artistic friends. I mean come on how can I make it without some free money?
Bzzzt, wrong.
There were more votes against Brian and FT than pro. The problem is that our voting system counts votes as though we were in a two party system rather than a >2 party system and so results turn out wrong.
Yeah, this is obviously FUD created by Microsoft...
Yeah, its true...
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/dat.html
A few years ago the Australian Music Industry Mouthpiece (ARIA) was concerned about piracy, and lobbied the government to have a similar tax applied to (wait for it) hard drives! At the time hard drives were $500 for 512Mb. Yeah, I wonder how many people bought a $500 HDD to avoid buying a $30 CD?
Which brings me to point 2: Until recently in Australia only the copyright owner of a CD was allowed to import it. You couldn't buy a box of CDs from the US where they are much cheaper and resell them for example. CDs in Australia are overpriced as a result of this tidy little monopoly. Last year the Federal Government actually revoked this stupid law, so now you can import cheaper CDs. There was a very big campaign by ARIA scum trying to convince politicians that young voters would think they were cool if they kept the ARIA monopoly, offering photo opportunities with rock stars for politicians who were willing to sell out their voters. The worst of these was Demo-rat Natasha Stott Despoja, who went on national TV wearing a pro-ARIA T-shirt. Both labour and the demorats had promised to restore the ARIA monopoly if they won the elections, but they lost (sucked in).
The Moral: The Music Industry are evil and some politicians are dumber than they think we are,
but both can be beaten.
Where are you seeing the "2 dollar charge" being charged? Facts, please. Names of stores, and prices.
Not really. I sent a 1200 modem to one of my
brothers in Montreal about 2 years ago. They
appraised it at over $250 and he was charged
around 15% tax plus $35 broker's fee.
If you actually think that a CD would go thru
without being taxed, you're dreaming a bit.
Free trade between Canada and the US is a one
way trip for Joe Blow. I can buy just about any
merchandise I want from Canada tax free. As for
Canadians they get the big shaft.
Free trade for Canadians is only for the companies
not for the people.
Lay off Celine Dion, we like her a lot on this
side of the border.
As for Sheila Copps, how does she like her
pictures in Hustler magazine? I heard that
that issue was banned in Ontario.
Some prude canuck aren't they? or are they just
upset at the amusing pictures?
PEPPERSPRAY!!!!!
>
All mediocre bands. Sarah and Alanis are okay, but if you can begin to think that they're great, you're really, really wrong. And one more thing - if Canada is such a great happy-land, why do their tours cross over 95% of the US and barely touch Canadaland?
>
You want to subsidize music by raising media prices by over 100% and giving the money to an arbitrarily chosen government agency? The whole thing smacks of communism to me...why not just give me 40-some thousand dollars a year - I'm a student and I'm not working right now...wouldn't that make me someone who deserves government help? We'll tax your gasoline. Come on, it'll just be a couple of dollars...
But just remember: Would you rather hear Third Eye Blind on the radio or The Tragically Hip?
(Hum. I'm sure many fellow Americans are going 'tragically what?' Well, here's a link for you.
Oh, it's not that the GST got 'rammed through' Parliament. That's what you get with a majority government. It's the fact that the Senate rejected the bill, and so Mulroney (sp?) appointed his friends to the Senate.
What you're saying is that because our taxes go towards the police for fighting crime, crime is now legal.
I don't think this is the best way of doing things either, but until people stop making illegal recordings of copyrighted music, the artists should be compensated somehow.
BTW, does anybody know if the US musicians/record companies get any of the money raised from the tax?
<tim><
In terms of mp3 encoded music this translates to $1.00 for every 30 megs of mp3s. So, by their logic, a cd of mp3s should have $22 of tax on in, and my 18.22 GB hard drives should have $607 worth of tax on them..
Now all ~30 million Canadians will be spending an extra $2.50 to line the pokets of a few executives.
Do taxes in canada go to executives? I just assumed it would go to the government...
This is to get Canada in line with international copyright law. This has something to do with a ruling made in the 1950's in Rome. The U.S. already pays this levy, and it is nowhere near the levy proposed in Canada. As I understand, this bill must exist in some form or another. Hopefully Canada will impose a levy similar or lesser to that of the US.
In the meantime, let us just hope that the CDR companies don't take advantage of this situation and try to mark up their products to match the maximum levy. It is true, the levy has not been set, and the levy will be retroactive to the 1st of January 1999.
I wrote a letter to the MPs who are supporting this bill, and asked them if sheet music would qualify as a digital recording media, and if so, what will be the value of the levy imposed upon it?
If there is to be no levy on paper, what is the difference between the rights of musician's sheet music, and live recordings? Is one protected by the law more than another? If not, why? They still have not given me a reply.
I forgot the precise wording, but the bill is explicit in the fact that it must be a media which is commonly used for the purposes of musical recordings. I'm pretty sure sheet music could technically qualify, at least enough to make a point. Scribing musical notes on your chair however, would not.
The levy applies on all imported media, whether you are given it as a gift or not. If you choose not to declare that you have recieved the gift and subsequently not pay the levy, then you are breaking the law.
The one way around it is to have a group of sensory-impaired people purchase and burn CDs for you. They are the only excemption to the levy, and when they sell the burned CDs they will not be selling blank recording media.
I don't think VHS tapes or DVDs fall under this bill. People don't carry portable DVD audio players, or install them in their cars. But the Bill's definitions are a bit fuzzy on definitions... Where CDs, sheet music and audio cassettes are commonly used to store and share music, DVDs are not. There is even some question as to whether the bill will apply to normal-bias (voice grade) audio cassettes.
How can "the government" choose how much of a recording company gets their products pirated and thus know how much of the cut they should receive?
Once again our elected officials are voting themseleves bread & circuses.
F 'em!
(Perhaps the Wassenaar guys had an exchange of ideas beyond the ordinary stupid crypto export laws...?)
Fortunately, the net is there to voice your protest...
-------
Warning: Slashdot may contain traces of nuts.
We all know that the tax isn't to compensate musicians or dicourage pirating. Musicians make $1-2 per $20 CD. People will still pirate. The big music corps will just absorb the money, the musicians will never see it. Now all ~30 million Canadians will be spending an extra $2.50 to line the pokets of a few executives. I wonder if this law applies to DVDs?
You don't exist. Go away. --SysVinit Halt
Eventually it may be pennies for disk, but currently that 2 dollar charge is being charged.
/* TODO: Spawn child process, interest child in technology, have child write a new sig */
Seems to me there ought to be a way to make some money out there. If canadian artists were to create small mp3's and make them available for download then using the ftp download logs bill the govenment for the downloads. Since the music is not being distributed by the music industry, theoretically it could be argued that the artist should be the sole beneficiary of the tax amount less a government administration fee.
Any thoughts? Perhaps individual artists should ban together and hire an attorney to protect their rights in this matter.
Lando
/* TODO: Spawn child process, interest child in technology, have child write a new sig */
As a French speaking Canadian, I'd like to know which word of "French socialism" is evil to you. Being french or being socialist? In case you care, I'm one of those French socialist. I'm also a separatist; I'd like my own country to get rid of the federal government that treats me like a criminal because I owns a CD-R burner, and also to keep at a distance anti-french orangists like you. You should be aware that French Canadians also read Slashdot,
Marc
I love Canada but when I see stuff like this I have to shake my head. Sometimes Canadians are their own worst enemies.
Now if we had to pay rich people 5% of our salaries (because they are robbed more), that would be the same thing. It would then be ethical to steal from them (at least for 5% of our salaries), because we already paid for that right. (Please note I said ethical, not legal. Thank you.)
Also...just because a product you make is easily copied, doesn't give you the right to, in essense, steal money from another industry (the media manufactors...taxes on your productsalways lower revenue).
The whole concept is based on a fallacy...if someone drives up to my house in a pickup truck and steals my TV, can I levy a tax on pickup trucks until I can afford a new TV? The idea is crazy...but this is what the recording industry has managed to trick people into paying.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
: be played on radios from 30% to 35%. That means more than 1/3 of the songs played HAVE
: to be Canadian.
Well, why don't you move down south and become an American? Then, you'll be able to listen to all the yankee music you want.
It's a free country, here, nobody's holding you in.
-- ----------------------------------------------
Vive le logiciel... Libre!!!
: the union mentality) move the fuck out of Canada.
: Undemocratic, too much govt, stupid laws, excessive taxes, french socialism in Quebec etc..
Just move out, it's a free country. We democratically voted socialism in, so why are you complaining?
-- ----------------------------------------------
Vive le logiciel... Libre!!!
Do we have to set your capital on fire again ?
Or did you mean that the Canadians should invade the states and pillage their supply of non-ludicrously-taxed CDR blanks and video tapes?
$15 @#%@%# tax on 'em according to the Gov't page on it. ($0.50 per 15 Min. 6 Hours a tape... you can record digital audio on them.) I can see blockbuster going out of buisness fast, between rising cost of videos, and pilferage of tapes ('losing' a tape from the video store costs less than buying a $17 blank...)
I've also heard from a Chrysler employee that about 5 skids of video tapes (ie: 4-5 foot cubes) were seen being loaded into a storage room and locked up, so it seems that they had the same unpleasant feeling about it.
This tax is dubious on many counts. As a poster mentioned earlier 35% of radio air-play is Canadian music, therefore 65% is foreign. Album sales and associated piracy should reflect this (although I have no real idea of Canadians buying habits). Will the body in change analyze album sales, and forward the correct sum to their foreign counterparts?
Apparently, only music is pirated. There is no contingency for Canadian software companies, who are no doubt robbed of millions though piracy as well. This shows the government has 100% capitulated to the recording industry lobbyists. The government isn't genuinely interested in fostering talent (regardless of discipline), just greasing palms.
Where will the money go? Considering that a $17.00 album yields $1-2.00 for the artist, I would guess a $2.50 tax would equate to about $0.22. Sadly, this is logical. It would only show how shameful the recording industry is, if they started rewarding an artist more for the pirated copy then the original.
The major radio stations don't give new artists much of a chance, so all we get is more Rush, Tragically Hip and BNL. In my area the radio plays new artists in a spot called "Red, White and New", it's runs weekly and 22:00 at night. This is pretty sad. Before running to taxation as a solution, maybe the industry show look at it's self first.
This tax is going to be with us now in one form or another (taxes NEVER get revoked). I would like to ask other posters, how one may go about registering as a recording artist to start collecting a portion of the booty. Hey if we all scratched something together in Cakewalk/Cubase we get back what we put in (minus the $2.28 administration overhead.)
It's not a tax, it's a levy, imposed on behalf
of SOCAN, the Canadian musician's union -- many
members of which hate the levy.
-- Meet the Residents -- http://www.residents.com/
Can't you just order from the US? Whenever I purchase any CD-R's it's always through bulk ordering. The price markups of CD-R's are already ridiculous, even in the US.
Agreed. Canadians, myself included, should buy
our blank media elsewhere.
Perhaps the companies that sell media will make
lobby to drop this nonsense when their revenues
dry up!
-- Idan
We've been paying over inflated prices for CD audio here in Aus for far too long, so this idea of charging heaps of bucks for digital audio isn't new. That goes for software as well.
Some people have a way with words, and some people, um, thingy.
The 35% Canadian Content will backfire. Why would I buy a Tragically Hip CD when I can turn on the radio and hear it for free within the hour.
The new tax is a joke but this is Canada. It's what we do best. (except Hockey!)