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Interview with L. Peter Deutsch of Ghostscript
Tsarnon writes "This is an interview of the L. Peter
Deutsch who wrote Ghostscript. Good discussion on free software liscensing issues. "
An interesting point Peter makes is that he shopped around for
a free softare project to do, rather than experiencing ESR's
proverbial itch to solve a given problem. He also discusses
thorny IP issues such as patents, copyright and the Aladdin
Public license.
No, fun games! All these dumb text games, plus a handful of no-fun graphical ones add up to a bored user! Where's the sonic or super mario clones? Earthworm Jim? Must .. have .. side-scrollers. (Abuse doesn't count!)
NEED FOR SPEED
Canadian AC (ok, 12 word if i include this)
The foundations of many a good thing.
Thank you, Peter.
Didja know the kernel was written more than _seven_ years ago? Old hat! We should dump it for something modern, like um... NT.
I must say that the Ghostscript logotype is really cool. Man, what a smart design. I've never seen that one before.
Since Inprise isn't going to do it, 'cause they say it can't be done (only to similar platforms like the AS/400, haha), how about a port of Delphi to Linux.
Not like people haven't been begging for this port for years.
The pascal compiler's already available...
My voices tell me there's a secret agreement between Inprise and Microsoft that Microsoft will agree to stop raiding Inprise's programming staff if Inprise will agree never to port one of the greatest development tools ever written to any non-Windows platform.
Time for my meds.
The GPL has definitely self-descructory tendencies. When it becomes too widespread, nobody will have 'real jobs' any more, which allow you to hack in your spare time.
I like the idea of charging for proprietary commercial use while retaining software freedom, just like the QPL does for libraries.
GNUstep uses Display GhostScript. Could be cool!
But the point in the interview was valid, polishing the GIMP will be the toughest part.
And I don't mean adding a few cliparts.
Things like colour profiles (pantone, HKW etc.) come to my mind. Unfortunately, most of this is patented, and we won't be able to easily include it.
For such features (which are needed by relatively few users anyway) commercial/proprietary plug-ins are useful, if not necessary.
So, why not
What I meant by "It's been way too much fun" was simply that I had a lot of work to do and I had let my enjoyment of talking with Stig seduce me into spending a good deal more time with him than I had originally promised / planned.
--lpd
I don't like many (most, perhaps) of Stig's ideas, and I let him know this in no uncertain terms, but I like his published articles as they are. Maybe editorializing in an interview format is bad journalism, and maybe interviewing with advocacy agenda is bad advocacy, but I think the editors of these publications made the right decision in each case.
OUR EXCELLENT free software..
who got NO PAY for doing it..
we welcome business.. but do not depend on it..
we can finance open source with non open source jobs..
products that attempt to take advantage of the benefits of the open source community without engaging in the quip-pro-quo of open source..
Linus could not have retired if..
open source developer participation is the ONLY thing that has made Linux successful..
Boy, you think you are some kind of expert and spokesman. It's pretty clear to me that you are some kind of plain, ordinary nut with a vivid imagination and damn little respect for the truth.
If you have a copy of Aladdin Ghostscript installed and that version is released under the GPL does the licence on the version you have installed change?
Well, it'd be kinda nice to have GNU tools for set-top boxes and "smart" toasters and the like. And maybe a Free Software substitute for stuff like Pro Tools or Delphi. And maybe a fully-open implementation of streaming audio and video standards (and compression algorithms)... The list goes on and on, and it will grow and grow in the future.
--
--
=8^
I for one hadn't read this before and was glad to have my attention drawn to it. It's interesting to see LPD advocating that Netscape release their browser as free software...
--
Xenu loves you!
I think it's about more than RMS's credibility.
The FSF requires that they own the copyright
to everything they distribute. That's OK as long
as you can trust the FSF to use that ownership to do only one thing
-- defend the license. As soon as they use the
copyright as an asset they damage the credibilty
of the FSF and every other piece of software they maintain.
Having worked a bit with Aladdin as a beta tester and a minor contributor I can say that they are a great company, and Peter is very helpful. It's a shame that GS 5.50 can't be included on the Red Hat CD's - although I don't know why RH don't licence it from him - I'd rather have the improved printouts that 5.50 gives me than the backup utility that I've never used.
--
Matt. Want XML + Apache + Stylesheets? Get AxKit.
If I had used the AFPL on packet drivers, instead of the GPL, I am confident that I would be retired from the world of paid employment (and hacking all day long).
-russ
This interview, or at least a majority of it was previously published in the journal of the USENIX association, ;login:. It is an excellent piece, and I do recommend reading it, but it did see print before this site. Just another reason to join USENIX for all of you.
--Gus
I think Peter hit on a good solution to the problem with GPL, the problem being, the programmer doesn't get paid no matter how the product is used. Philisophical debate aside, at the present time, people do need to get paid for their work and a process that doesn't allow it probably won't be as successful as a process that does.
The idea of software being free (as in beer) any paying for support doesn't work out in many cases, such as when a person or group of people write software then a larger unrelated company decides to support it, thereby eating the lunch of the developers.
We welcome business, of course we'll go out of the way to help people succeed in Open Source(tm) businesses. However, if Red Hat were to go out of business, or if Linus were to take up another hobby, there'd still be people working on Linux. We do not depend on any business for our survival.
Yes, Spencer Kimball and Peter Matthis aren't working on the GIMP any longer. However, the GIMP team is taking up the load, and other people are ready to put in free time just as Spencer and Peter did, as a way of paying back with their time for all of the free software that others have contributed. Frankly, after Spencer and Peter spent all of that time on the project, working on something else is not a bad idea.
We should not feel ashamed if we happen to have non-Open-Source jobs or if we even make non-Open-Source products. Not everything has to be Open Source, and if we can finance Open Source developments with income from our non-Open-Source enterprises, that's fine. I think an honestly non-Open-Source product is much less of a problem than a fence-sitter, a product that attempts to take advantage of the benefits of the Open Source community without really engaging in the full quid-pro-quo of Open Source.
I really have to wonder if GhostScript would not be developed faster if the main source thread was GPL-ed and many people worked on it instead of mainly Peter. It's worked for Linux.
Russ Nelson could have retired if he'd used the Alladin license on the packet drivers, but only because they are sold into a market where proprietary software is the norm. Linus could not have retired if he'd used the Alladin license on Linux, because he would not have had the tremendous free developer participation that comes with Open Source, which is the only thing that has made Linux successful.
Stig, all of your interviews are editorials. Editorials are OK. Interviews are OK. Mixing the two is not the best of journalism.
Thanks
Bruce Perens
Bruce Perens.
What did we get from businesses like Sybase et al this year? Recognition and publicity. Many of them didn't even ship a product. They decided our market was going to become significant, and thus they'd better get on board and say so publicly rather than get left behind. We got all of the way to that point without them. If Sybase decides to turn away from Linux, it might be bad publicity but we will go on.
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
Peter says:
Well it has. It's been way too much of a pleasure.
Well, it's probably a language thing, but could
anybody explain what he could possible mean by
that?
"I would like a lot more people in the community to be aware of the cost, the difficulty, and the perceived value of having polished software: software that is well tested, well documented, and well supported. To understand that making software that crosses the chasm does take a lot more effort, and that it's by having the software that has crossed the chasm that you're going to attract a lot of people to an alternative way to getting nice software produced. Because I think that is really where UNIX lost out. I think that is why Microsoft now pretty much owns the desktop. UNIX hackers, who have the best system technology, never really made a mental connection with the world of the user. If cooperative software development and free software distribution are going to continue to expand and to start creating a change in mind-set, then there has to be a lot more awareness of that chasm and what it takes to cross it. "
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Yes, that's the only thing i can think about that we are lacking.. And in games.. i mean solid.. standard game engines.. which could be used as a basis for game designer (who actually make the game graphics, and music)... blah blah.. free the engine.. and let the arts do their job!
peace on gnuland..
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i have been toying with a business model that includes open source software, something along the lines of deutsch's developing additional functionality for ghostscript for money. i'm having a difficult time (more difficult than i anticipated) figuring out how to make a profit (much less get rich). what made it feasible for deutsch?
I am much confused by the licensing issues that swirl about the open source community and this was a great way to get a bit caught up (though the weird purple bars kept throwing me off).
The interesting distinction that I caught for the first time was that Ghostscript was initially released GPL, but LPD retained the copyright (rather than assigning it to RMS and FSF). That way, he was within his legal rights to change the licensing to his new AFPL. Do I have this right?
Left shift 1 for e-mail...
I get from the interview that his itch was to create some free software, to be involved in it, to learn something from it. I don't think an "itch" has to be connected to a particular tool that needs to be brought into existence... Deutsch's itch seems more along the personal growth variety. A more intangible thing than an OS, but just as valid.
-- John Truong
LinuxWorld published my analysis of the SCSL and I mention a few things about the SCSL that I like on my dev/Linux site.
Stig
--
dev/Linux (ORGanized, NETworked, COMmunity)
dev/Linux (ORGanized, NETworked, COMmunity)
is the First Hackers' Distributed Republic...
As for journalism? I write, but my degree says Electrical Engineering and Computer Engineering. I read books on business, psychology, and philosophy these days. I do not aspire to simply report on doings of others while avoiding all personal involvement. I do my best to not misrepresent others, but I will not suppress my own voice for the sake of "journalism."
Stig
--
dev/Linux (ORGanized, NETworked, COMmunity)
dev/Linux (ORGanized, NETworked, COMmunity)
is the First Hackers' Distributed Republic...
It looks like this interview was done quite a while ago (before netscape source release in fact).