Slashdot Mirror
NetBSD announces port to Ultrasparc
Herb Peyerl contributed
this earlier in the week, but the NetBSD site
did not confirm it for some time. "NetBSD now runs on Sun Ultrasparc hardware.
NetBSD/sparc64 is the product of a 2-year effort. Currently,
UltraSPARC I and II CPUs, esp SCSI controllers,
le ethernet controllers, zs serial ports, cgsix graphics controllers
are supported. Any of the other drivers from the
NetBSD/sparc port might also work.
The 32-bit kernel runs most NetBSD/sparc binaries.
A 64-bit version of the system currently exists and runs on
some hardware, but requires further development to be fully
functional.". The
latest snapshot is available.
Who cares
Slackware is the best.
wake me when the show starts. zzzzzzzzzz ...
I like it, I like it.
I`ve also been told that NetBSD on Alphas just rocks. I`m gonna buy one soon in the near future and NetBSD will be my choise.
I have OpenBSD on my Sun/4c and love it! My desktop is Linux, but I like using/playing with as many OSes as I can. Looks like they're doing a good job, hope they keep it up- more people working on more OSes=more ideas=better quality for all of us.
Now I just need an UltraSparc!
Very good news indeed!
:-)
Go for it *BSD!
> If linux supported even half of the architecture
> that NetBSD supports your comment might be
> almost viable, but since it doesn't, shut up.
Granted, the original poster was an ass, but Linux runs on nearly as more than half as many platforms as NetBSD and is catching up fast.
NetBSD platforms listed that Linux does not support and which no one is working on, AFAIK:
* pc532
* x68k
* newsmips
NetBSD platforms that Linux ports are in development for:
* hp300
* sun3
* sun3x
* vax
* next68k
* mac68k
Linux platforms that NetBSD does not support:
* SGI Indy
* SGI Visual Workstation
* SMP (on i386, sparc, sparc64, alpha and powerpc)
* 8086 (ELKS)
* Fujitsu AP+ 1000
* PowerPC amiga
* sun4d
* PalmPilot
* Psion Series 5
Actually, that may out linux slightly ahead depending on what counts as a port.
Cool, that NetBSD is still improving, i'm running NetBSD on my two Sun SPARC Stations at home and i rox!
Keep up the good work!
We haven't had a good, 300+ post thread in what? Almost 3 days now? SlashDot is dying!
I've been looking into gettin a new machine and was hoping to NOT get an i386. I'd like to get an SGI or Sun workstation. Can anyone compare/contrast how well supported they are under Linux? I've been told that UltraSparc support is OK, SGI I don't know about.......
Any comments very appreciated!
NetBSD is great for hobbyists with obsolete hardware and lots of time on their hands. Who wouldn't enjoy the thrill of computing on a 15 year old 0.5 MIPS Sun3 with a black and white monitor! Gives me a woody just thinking about it! Pour me a nice tall glass of Kool-Aid and settle in for an evening of NetBSD fun, playing text mode Tetris compiled with the latest ncurses library. Is that high tech fun or what! After the kids are asleep I'll fire up Lynx and search the net for dirty stories that I can read. Oh mama, grab the K-Y Jelly, I'll be ready for you after the 10 O'clock news!
I am not from the United States of Coruption ;)
I think that NetBSD on Sparc is good news. Thanks to the hardworking developers that made this port.
Now that linux is becomming more and more like
Microshit, it is nice to see that there are good
work beeing done elsewere in the free unix world. Go, go, go.
[Captain, we've got flamebait on the monitor (but what the heck :-)]
:-)
Sheesh, take your head out of your behind and look around.
Sure, Linux is nice, but there are other things in the world, and NetBSD is a pretty nifty `other thing'. You should at least try to appreciate the cohesiveness of the *BSD family of operating systems - they actually put some work into them, rather than the `it boots, ship it' Slackware.
Now, anyone got a spare UltraSPARC for me to help them port on? I don't think my employer will let me take down Oracle to use theirs
Regards,
Gnuspice.
Linux was the first fully 64-bit OS on the
UltraSPARC, totally embarrassing Solaris
developers. Solaris was the second fully 64-bit
OS on the UltraSPARC.
Now NetBSD is 32-bit on the UltraSPARC, with some
incomplete 64-bit support. Am I supposed to be
impressed by this? (hmmm, did OpenBSD beat them too?)
Linux supports _MORE_ not _LESS_ platforms than NetBSD. I have nothing against NetBSD, but what grabs my balls in your case is your complete ignorance and your racist remarks against 15 year olds.
esp SCSI? All of our UltraSPARC's have fas SCSI. le ethernet? That's what my SS5 and SS20 have, we've got hme HappyMeals on the Ultras. cgsix? Same thing, that's what my SS5 has, most Ultras have Creators or Elite3D's.
Linux: The choice of a Gnulix generation.
FreeBSD: MacOS zealots that you can't shut up.
NetBSD: Overage gurus who feel a need to bash Linux.
OpenBSD: Tight ass security.
Windows: Baaaaa! Baaaa!
I took linux off of my pentium pro a couple of days ago to try FreeBSD. Nothing was wrong with linux, the operating system I love, but I thought I'd give FreeBSD a whirl. Thought it was pretty cool with the simple automatic package upgrading / making system via ftp. ( But sometimes this didn't work ). However, my system has linux back on it. - reasons - Linux has a shitload of MOMENTUM. We've got new kernels coming out and being pounded on. We've got major database support. We've got hardware vendors jumping on the wagon. Linux is basically the most exciting thing to come along in a long,long time. Anything else feels like stagnation. Any technical
weaknesses in linux are being flushed out quickly, and technical advancement is being made lighting fast
You obviously don't read Slashdot much. Why don't you count the number of smears on each side. You'll be very, very, very surprised.
Almost. I'd say the Linux camp feels a need to smear all of the *BSDen.
NetBSD is not 32-bit on the UlraSparc. OpenBSD has no UltraSparc machine, and therefore no way to port without hardware.
I don't think you are supposed to be impressed. And who cares about shit like `beat them too'.
FreeBSD doesn't run on Mac. ?!?!?
may it die quickly and not fester.
glad i'm not the only person who noticed the bsd crowd likes to play the i-think-i-am-european-and-superiour-to-you game.
bsd is for a bunch of high-brow fags who like to pretend they are real coders.
bsd tears itself apart once every couple months and needs no help making itself look lame.
Linux UltraSPARC has been available in full 64 bit version for several years. See this slashot article or better yet check out the UltraSPARC Linux Home Page. Linux beats the Johnny come lately handily.
don't post in threads by lamers, lamer.
UltraSPARC Linux Home Page is where the action is.
It's idiots like you who give Linux a negative spin. I endorse Linux because I feel the
competition to M$ is worthy of merit--but I will NEVER use Linux because of the
arrogant "society" in which it lives. The NetBSD announcement is a major
announcement in that many people sacrificed lots of their time and energy into
an effort they thought was useful. HOW DO YOU THINK LINUX WAS CREATED?
Stop being so moronic always stating "who cares" whenever something non-Linux
(heaven forbid!!!) is posted to Slashdot. As much as you insecure Linux people wish
to think it, Linux is NOT the end-all of operating systems. Take your arrogance
elsewhere.
Excuse me? "zealots who can't shut up?"
I think that falls into the linux category my friend. If Linux is the choice of the
"Gnulix" generation, I'm glad to NOT be a part of that generation. Period.
GodDAMNIT, The Linux COmmunity MADE ME PIST AGAIN. Very pist this time
/dev/NULL. Understood!!??
... I'll write on.
... hang on ...
...
..." I'm sick of this shit. UNIX was developed AGES ago. Not yesterday, NOT TODAY.
... the FreeBSD people are also playing open
:)
.... :)
and if I'm pist, I get VERY, VERY MAD and than I type like a fucking MADMAN!!!
This was your preface. If you don't like IT I'll stuff your Annoying flames
right into
OK, I'll go outside now and start loosing my tempure before I go on. Than I'll
explain why I'm so fucking MAD.
No I'm not going to cool down first
The Linux community is making some very, very big mistakes. And it aren't those
mistakes which you would think it's making. No it are the same FUCKING mistakes
which we're all making throughOUT our whole FUCKING live because this Stiff, shitty
society tells us to to.
.... I'll go outside now
In the early ages of mankind when one society was stronger than the other because they
where doing something better or more efficient than the other they usually whiped out the
weker ones in order to get more space for their own
What the FreeBSD community needs are no Linux programmers, no schoolteachers starting to
use FreeBSD and especially no Bill Gates using FreeBSD. What the FreeBSD community needs are people
who are NOT afraid. People who dare to undertake new things. People who dare to replace the
old by the new. People who understand that in order to create, you need to destruct. There
are a lot of people, however, in this community who are to coward to think big. Who are to
coward to face new challenges. These "nerds" stick with their old-fashioned Linux
for ages. Not because it's better or works faster. No, becasue it's the "geek way" and
because "it should just be that way".
Whole day I'm getting bullshit about that FreeBSD has to be the same as Linux. "Whe can't do
that because we might "harm" the UNIX concept." "If we do this it isn't POSIX complient
any more
No, a fucking lot of years back in time. This concept sucks and is full of HOLES and if something
can be done in a better and more efficient way, it's just too stupid not to do it because of
some "UNIX standard". These standards where also "thought up by a bunch of people". They weren't
thought up by some sort of GOD. They're an autority and FreeBSD has to rebel.
Yeah, yeah, I know: I sound like a stupid kid who "doesn't know what he's talking about."
Well, I'll tell you something: If Linux isn't able to follow a normal, healthy "destruction,
creation" pattern the community is going to "loose" it's first member by now. A very dedicated
member, just like the FreeBSD people, who where again getting shit because of being innovative.
I HATE Linux. I HATE it's WHOLE FUCKING Concept. You can't hide the fact that it's technical SHIT.
Since the very first moment that I started to use FreeBSD and without being able to use it, I've
been one of the BIGGEST fans of the FreeBSD project. That are the guys. They there to stand up and
say: "Fuck complience, we're going to make something BETTER!."
When I just read some recent posts on Slashdot, I almost got tears in my eyes I'm
dedicating a lot of time to FreeBSD and I love it. I'm attaching a lot of people to FreeBSD (including
a local computer store) so I'm not to be taken like a new-bie. I AM a new-bie, however, in the eyes
of some die-hard kernel hackers (and other shitty nerds) who hide themselves behind terms like New-bie
so that they don't have to take the things a certain group of people says seriously. I hate hiding.
I'm playing open and I might get shit but I don't care. That's what I want. When I make you angry,
I touch your feelings and that's one of my goals but
and somehow people always manage to discurrage them. "Why?" Because all YOU Fucks (most of the Linux
hackers) are FUCKING AFRAID of anything which has SOMETHING to do with CHANGE.
Change is the definition of live. If something doesn't change for a certain amount of time it means
it's asleep and if it stops changing at all, it's dead! That's why Linux is already death for about
a year. Their game is played out for the moment. They didn't dare to face new changes. They sticked
with old SHit and their own fuckt-up standards and now almost EVERYBODY HATES them and people are
getting wild at FreeBSD.
I don't get wild at Linux any more (from now). I'm getting so fucking sick with people who can't think
for theirselves and make decisions out of fear. I hate YOU ALL YOU GEEKS!
When will WE get alive?
damn I feel good after writing this
but let's get back to the FreeBSD subject: am submitting this message to this website
The drafts which I saw about the new FreeBSD stuf made me go wild. That stuff sounds too good
to believe after all those nerds trying to annoy me with fearfull talk
It's time to let go. BSD users know they have lost but like many grief stricken individuals they are in denial. In the real world there are winners and losers. BSD took a shot at the brass ring and failed. BSD users need to accept reality and get on with their lives. There is no shame in losing, but there is shame in the endless scapegoating and gnashing of teeth which marks the BSD community.
POKEY THE PENGUIN
It is all good fun after all:)
an Ultra yet...
dude. i laugh in your general direction.
lamer.
not quite yet... i believe processes are still limited to 4gb virtual space
...should we meow instead?
-- Kapusniak, Stefan m
FleaBSD today!!
RUN A REAL OPERATING SYSTEM!!!!!!!!
LINUX FOREVER!!!
Note: GET A LIFE, TROLL.
The linux programming API is the most posix compliant than ANY other *nix IMO
Maybe you should get together with the ACs who say BSD is dead. At least their asshole comments are short and coherent. Put you and them together and we might end up with a semi-coherent, long-winded asshole.
Oh shit, I just gave the world a recipe for MEEPT!.
Dude! I can't stop laughing. This is the funniest thing I've read all day.
FreeBSD is like that dog in the Taco Bell commercial--an itty bitty doggy with a squeaky annoying bark.
What you say is true, however there are a few things that's needed to be said, namely:
FreeBSD is NOT NetBSD and none of them is OpenBSD
and so on(There are MANY more BSD's =).
My favourite FREE UN*X is clearly NetBSD as it's performance is MUCH better than Linux.
It might not be as easy to use as some Linux dist's (more like Slackware) but is much more powerful than any Linux ever will be.
The NetBSD kernel kicks arse!
However, my bet for the future is KOSH(www.kosh.net), an entierly new way of thinking, no UN*X no nothing.
It will change the definition of computing...
This comes from a UN*X lover. But UN*X is not the way, it's good, but not way and not as good as an OS could get, far from.
UN*X has evolved from a single usr env to a multiusr and so on, it has evolved but has been keeping lots of shit, silly shit.
97% of the people here are people who quite frankly don't know shit, they just Linux coz the hype. God damn hacker wannabes.
Now, for those who write your own drivers and use
other OS too may excuse as you're part of the 3% I'm not talking about =)
You all blindly BELIVE that Linux is best, it's
not, many un*x's are better, much better.
BELIVES are makes the mind stop functioning,
a non-functioning brain is clinicly dead...
I'm interested in some benchmark
comparisons personally...
-DaveM
must be another bsd luser that cant accept their defeat.
dude, i'm rotfl at your lame arse.
Its true - NetBSD support on the ultrasparc lagged significantly behind that on the alpha, where it excells in terms of server support, and has done so for longer than any other free OS.
:)
You _could_ be impressed by support for over twenty architectures from the same rather clean source tree, but you're obviously far happier on whatever you've already set your mind, so I wish you luck there
One presumes you have little to no experience of BSD, and definitely none of the NetBSD source tree.
A well designed, freely available, functional system seldom dies, it grows and even gets used by other wendors (such as apple taking the NetBSD userland for Rhapsody).
In fact it has a better long term growth potential, because it has less hacks to get in the way of future progress.
So, I think you'll find it will neither fester, nor die, quickly or slowly. Never mind.
Hmm - if the internal firewall which this large company decided to install recently really were running a dead OS I probably would not be able to send this message.
Oh, thats right, they didn't use some 'current hype' definition of Dead or Alive but instead used informed technical judgement to decide on what OS to use for a mission critical tcp/ip appletalk filtering host
Feel free to keep dismissing things you do not understand - its unlikely to concern the rest of us.
(Laughs out loud).
:)
You;ve quite obviously never run NetBSD on a top end Alpha 8000 server. Never mind, NASA does, and for quite clear reasons.
Running the same source tree on everything from a VAX (even lower powered than your sun3/50) upwards does have obvious gains - you can't just assume masses of CPU and memory.
Oh, and the suns with 'black and white' monitors (you'll tend to find the referred to as 'monochrome'), running NetBSD wiill probably have the latest Xfree 3.3.3.1 binaries.
Ah, I forgot, actually finding out the facts wasn't somethting you were interested in. Pity
Of course I won't settle for anything _less_ that ultralinux, but don't stop me from using something that _I_ consider more...
Wake up and look around - other people make different choices to you, and some of them are probably better informed.
(Some of those better informed people will also choose linux, but you're clearly not one of them)
"cool package system that automatically FTPs and
builds requisite packages for me, from source"
Oh man. Don't think for a moment that that
system is more secure than binaries. All you
do is waste CPU time. I ought to wait for the
next hole, ready to upload really bad shit to
your FTP servers. You then automatically FTP
and build it! Cool. I 0wn y00 n0w!
Open Source is a zero-sum game when someone uses an incompatible licence like *BSD does. I can move code freely between Linux and the HURD, while *BSD just feeds commercial developers. I may consider the HURD idiotic, but at least I can grab any useful code.
just a little bit of perl magik and puff what looked like solaris is
netbsd woohoo. with a little more gimp magik u got ur self a
cde look alike. then wala u gotta desktop so dumb ass head
admin. couldnt tell from a bug up his a!@
pro-bsd bullcrap?
To be quite honest, slapdash is filled to the brim with uninformed pro-linux bullcrap posted by children. 99% of comments have absolutely no factual backing and you chose this one to bitch about?
Intelligent people have no problem accepting that others might have a different opinion than them. It is only insecure idiots that need to try and berate others opinions in hopes of re-enforcing their own opinion, which is most likely based on rhetoric to begin with.
If you want to like linux that is fine, but if someone else likes something else, you really don't need to open your hole and spout garbage like that.
On that note, the original poster really doesn't need to post that they like netbsd just because either. But since it happens all the time regardless, maybe people should try and be the bigger person and just let it be that way without turning everything into a linux rules, everything else sucks holy war. It really accomplishes nothing and you only make yourself look that much more stupid.
first things first, there is no operating system by the name of bsd. There is NetBSD (subject of this article), FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and BSD/OS. The only one of which I have ever seen tear itself apart in any way half as maniacly as your comment, would be OpenBSD, which is headed up by a very intelligent but very opinionated (and some consider crazy) man. So if you would please clarify and possibly include some fact with your rhetoric, we would have a complete meal.
Thanks
ehm,
quite a few people rip off previous knowledge. Just yesterday I was at the library ripping off this guy named Socrates. interesting point of view he has.
ALL KNOWLEDGE IS BASED ON PREVIOUS KNOWLEDGE.
I can guarentee that Linux has ripped off other operating systems. The good news is that it's not a bad thing. There is no crime by learning from other peoples failures and/or successes. In fact, it's actually a good idea in most cases.
Linux doesn't suck, it's a good OS.
However, NetBSD is better.
Infact, most UN*X's is better than Linux.
Linux is just simply the most overhyped OS since Windows 95.
If you want a challange, join us at KOSH(www.kosh.net).
When KOSH is finished, we start another project... and so on.
That's the way it should be, that's the way it got to be, IMO.
Oh man. Don't think for a moment that that system is more secure than binaries. All you do is waste CPU time. I ought to wait for the next hole, ready to upload really bad shit to your FTP servers. You then automatically FTP and build it! Cool. I 0wn y00 n0w!
Except that it will try official home sites first, _and_ has an md5 checksum for everything it wants to download.That makes it a leedle bit harder methinks.
>I don't like what I saw at www.kosh.net
...
;)
If there is something you don't like, let the entire KOSH group know.
>First you should throw away all the pages that sound like open source for pointy haired bosses/MBA/suits. Just because of them I'll probably never attempt to go back there
Wrong, it's more like the BSD licence.
Simply because it will atract companies instead of "the Linux programmer with no knowlige in Software Engineering"(read bugs).
>Second I don't see at all why you don't host Kosh on Linux/FreeBSD/OpenBSD/NetBSD. Linus bootstrapped from Minix. Even Inferno can be run both natively or hosted by Unixes(incl. Linux) or Windows NT
If you read everything you'll see that their idea is that you'll be able to run it in every possible env and that my good friend includes *BSD(I love *BSD) and Linux.
>Third an OS alone is mostly useless. What people need is applications. Why should I switch from Linux to Kosh when all I run is X11, netscape, gcc, emacs, mpg123 ?
I see your point, however, I joined the project so that I could buid the os I wanted and needed.
It would be very simple to get gcc, netscape, emacs and all the others to run on KOSH,
just look at supercool(though very old) AmigaOS:
It has all of the software you mentioned and KOSH would easyly get it too.
And yes, X11 is avail on Amiga, infact three X11 clients are currently avail.
>Fourth, buzzword-oriented OSes have already been tried without (much) success: Moose, Tunes. Other interesting OSes (not buzzword oriented) aren't much used: VSta, Linuxss (Linux on top of Mach ; failed); Lites(Linux on top of Mach, PhD project),
KOSH is not just another Linux or *BSD,
it's more, it's better. Infact it's the best I've seen.
And the "on top" argument doesn't hold as it will only be temporary. When KOSH is ready to run on it's own it will use it's on partition or HD and it will be a REAL OS.
And besides, most of the projects you mentioned falied because they where based on Linux.
I don't know if you work in the industry as I do but if you know Software Engineering you'll understand why...
>Fifth, you should really give a look to research projects, or even simply to former Lisp systems/machines & Smalltalk systems. For instance Smalltalk 80 is a 20-30 years old system, completly OO (yes, that's a sea of objects), that is still innovative in comparison of what I saw of Kosh (see www.squeak.org).
Linux is far from inovative (the only thing good coming out it is GIMP, the BSDs on the other hand has done a good deal of inovating stuff.)
But KOSH is NOT UN*X and will be inovative as it is not just OO, take a look at Fleecy Moss OASYS guidelines. Fleecy is a Software Engineer and used to work for Oracle, he IS inovative. Just because some of the things where done before doesn't mean you can't do them again, coz if you couldn't there would be no other UN*X that BSD, SysV and Unics.
>From what I saw, I think that Kosh is likely to fail, but that you'll learn much in the process, and then you'll start another project.
Yepp, that's my point =)
Linux is stuck in it's code-n-debug swamp shit and it stinks, now lets kill the stupid penguin and start a new project where old experiences and new ideas will mix. When we're done will kill KOSH and start yet another one and so on...
Nice haveing a intelligent dicussion with a Linux usr, it's been a while since I met one
No, just kiddin, I used to be a fanatic too,
just woke up and realiced that Linux is not the best. It might be for a small group but things can be done better, much better, and I belive that KOSH is the best way at this moment.
However something else might come along later and I'll chage my mind again... it's called evolution.
Feel free to contine this discussion as we might find out some new points of view that will make KOSH a joy for everyone to use.
bahahahahaahahahhaahahahahahahahahahah hhahahaha
wahahahwha
dude
i'm rolling on the floor laughing.
keep up that elitist bsd user attitude so i can really crack up.
Because the advent of mini-PCs (PC-104, ..., see "Smallest world server" info), you are becoming more and more likely to have x86 based embedded systems in your TV, video tape recorder, camescope, camera, fridge, modem, heating system, alarm, ... On them, NetBSD would then be a better choice than Linux (and embedded OSes could be even a better choice, at the expense of a greater complexity of development).
> My critique was about ideas and expressions like "formal development environment", "management system", "deliverable", "capital investment", ..., but that was probably because I read them before seeing any technical content (other than Kosh will better the better OS ever made :-). Still, it sounds that someone read a general Software Engineering/Management manual and think he has found the Graal and absolute solution for producing Good Code (this often happened to me shortly after reading some book, for instance the C++ manual, "Design Patterns", some Java tutorial). However in reality, formal methods can certainly help to make the design/code say 30% "better", but the problem is that talented individuals can make 10 times "better" code. For instance people who have contributed to GNU ... are an incomprehensible & complex mess for many people, but for their talented authors they are mostly clear (they can cope with the >1000 functions of Elisp without problem for instance). Talent, skill and knowledge are much more important than formal methods/management stuff.
software: emacs, gcc/binutils/, bash,
Your right, there is no Solver bullit for greater code, but 30% is not even close:
For a simple programs (40000LoC) talented programmmers can make wonderful things, no dubt about it(I by the way have a friend(Hellrazor, if you've heard of him (famous democoder)) who wrote a QNX like system at the age of 16. Kernels are small, simple to write.).
But for a normal thingy, let's say >500000LoC, no team, no matter how good they are, can make a good product without SE, that's a fact.
(Just look at M$, they use code-n-debug dev(also known as featuredriven development), they hire many good programmers(though most sux) and produce crap.)
Oracle (where Fleecy used to be a SEer) makes good 500000LoC+ programs.
>The projects didn't specially failed because they were based on Linux: Moose was imagined as a from scratch OO OS (but no code was written), Tunes was thought (is still thought -- see www.tunes.org) as a revolutionary OS, reflective, efficient, etc... OS, and started 4 years 1/2 ago ; very very little code has been written, but obviously the contributors have gained a good knowledge about OSes, reflectivity. You should definitively have a look on Tunes site. VSTa didn't fail, but suffers from a lack of interest. Lites succeeded, but similary suffers from lack of interest. Linuxss failed because it was a too big-too complex project (even simply compiling Mach-3 was very dificult). Even the Hurd took years (>10 years) to be released, and that was an OS done from talented people from the FSF.
Yep, but Linux is complex, you can't make a good simple product from "someone" elses work.
(Do some reverse engineering or maintenence work of someone elses 500000LoC+ product with bad documentation and you'll see what I mean.)
>The problem is deeper than that: there is no application that couldn't be run on Linux (or *BSD, or Windows-NT). You have to explicitly imagine what in your OS will be new (i.e. for instance: very high level security). An example is eCos from cygnus: it is a free, real-time OS. Its design goals are crystal clear: have a real-time OS running with few resources (for embedded systems), have a free OS so that people stop reinventing theirs, and use the GNU cross-compilation tools (well known and popular) on well-know and popular OSes (Windows, Unix).
I used eCos for a while, but QNX is the THE thing for Hard RT demants, we use it as it's the best.
For Soft RT demands I pick Solaris.
As freenix, NetBSD for speed and OpenBSD for security.
KOSH is a different OS, read all of it and you'll understand. Most people think in old ways, for those it's hard to accept a N.W.O..
Though I'm glad you simply don't say "I hate it, it's not Linux." that some mindless jerks have said.
(If some of you who said it reads this: IT'S NOT LINUX BECAUSE IT'S KOSH!, they have nothing to do with eachother except for the fact that some people that wrote parts of the Linux, NetBSD(and so on) kernels are writing the KOSH.))
>From Kosh description or Tunes description, I don't know what I could use them for.
New ideas requires killing old brainchilds.
>Linux isn't innovative, right. That's why it can compile and run Unix applications (the free ones) ; and that's why I'm using it rather than VSTa. Also my opinion is that once you have seen the lastest developpement in research OSes (see tunes page for links), there is not much that can be done to improve OSes, the new frontier would be rather in the development tools and languages.
Linux is a UN*X, UN*X has been around since the 70's, therefor Linux is not inovative.
On your point about languages.
RebOl (www.rebol.com), made by Carl Sassenrath,
a close friend of both Dave and Fleecy, is what your after.
They the are the kings of computers, they are all inovative.
Carl: Languages.
Dave: Hardware and Software (Esp, filesystems.)
Fleecy: OS, usability and SE.
Though Carl is not openly involved with KOSH i bet RebOl will be avail real soon.
>For instance, innovation in the Linux case, is rather in the GNOME system (the use of Corba) and KDE (KOM, another object model).
Not inovative, CDE has been around for years.
And, good old AmigaOS has been similar since 84.
>A cleaner API, cleaner code, and some reflectivity, would be useful certainly: but currently with Linux|*BSD, just wait for 10 times more developpers (or similary: find a talented programmer), and you could do whatever you can do on other OSes. And the current Freenixes have more than 10 times more developpers working on them than say, VSTa or Hurd.
Many Linux and *BSD developers (who now find the systems boring because the lack of challange) have joined KOSH.
>I guess it would be better done on some mailing-list, since slashdot isn't a real-time messaging system (couldn't forward answers to posts to theirs authors). I also guess that I should look closer to Kosh site, and latest developements in Tunes.
Yes, do so.
You seam like a openminded person, join KOSH(and/or Tunes) and add what you want to it. We need people who are openminded, people who can trash there favourite system for something new. I know, it's hard, but stepping though the shadow and comming out the other side is possible. There are many ex Mac fanatics who now are Linux or *BSD fanatics.
People need to be able to adapt again for technology to be able to move forward.
UN*X is powerful, but there is need for something else. Things can be done differently, though H/W sets many limitations. With Dave as the H/W designer I bet we can overcome many of them.
Ps.
Sorry for any misstypeing or bad gramatics, I'm getting very tired, gonna go to sleep now.
Ds.
Jepp, though those are mindless jerks who do not write the Linux kernel, for example.
I bet most of them where Windows advocates only a few years back, REAL un*x users enjoys all un*xes.
Personaly I enjoy NetBSD more, because of it's power. Linux is nice because what it lacks in power it almost makes up in software and userfriendliness.
Stop bitching around, let people use the system they love. I understand why some people love Mac's and I respect that, though I personally dislike MacOS.
LONG LIVE FREEDOM OF CHOISE!
(Not faked freedom... like in a surtan Western Country.)
Nice talking to you, it's been much fun and I value your points of view, thnx.
If you want I can setup an anonymous foward mailbox so you can drop me a line now and then,
if you want to that is.
Needless to say, but I am a bit paranoid and NEVER use my real identity on the net(I don't think anyone else should either...).
It might change one day but it's a wierd world we live in and I don't like taking chances.
Not that it has anything to do with this but,
try some kind of budo, it opens new doors for the mind.
I just did some Kung Fu today and I tell you, it was soooo nice(loveley chicks there too =).
As a linguist, tell me how someone trying to use a non-native language as its natives do is "insulting the language".
And for your racism, hell, I'm not even gonna touch it. I think I know what opinion you will have of me if I move to California in September like I plan to do.
---
Proprietary, closed source software mongers may have to disparage each others software, but we're not in competition and we're providing alternative implementations of the same standard. It's good for both sets of developers, all users of free operating systems, and Unix and standards based computing in general. If I had a spare machine knocking about I'd probably give all the Open Source OSses a try.
Hooray for NetBSD!
--
Xenu loves you!
I do. I am gonna whack you with the clue stick now. *whack*
/mill
Human nature takes over again...
"Meet the new OS, same as the old OS" (with apologies to Pete Townsend)
I use Solaris/SPARC and WinNT 4.0 at work, but I'm tinkering with FreeBSD at home. Why am I not joining the Linux Generation? 'cause I want to be different!
I've tried Linux, but SysV doesn't do anything for me. Besides, the *BSD world doesn't have nearly as many foamers as the Linux world does.
Dare to be different!
Don't worry about it. It's obviously not for you! That's why we have free will and free choice.
For me, NetBSD rocks. I love being able to build my entire userland by typing "cd /usr/src && make build". I love have a cool package system that automatically FTPs and builds requisite packages for me, from source. (I particularly love how every single binary on my box, with the exceptions of Quake II and Netscape, were built right here on my box!)
I like how unified NetBSD is. I started off using NetBSD because it was the only Unix that would run on my old mac68k hardware. I stuck with it when I got new hardware because I just like the feeling of wholeness and quality that NetBSD exudes. (I prefer it to FreeBSD, which is very nearly as good IMHO, and I definitely prefer it to Red Hat, which I tried once and rapidly removed.)
One thing that I'm curious about, that may be a mis-understanding on my part, is the package systems on non-i386 GNU/Linux platforms. How integrated are alternative architectures? On NetBSD, I can cd into /usr/pkgsrc and make pretty much any package on any platform, without having to ftp anything manually. Are things this slick on, say, Linux/Alpha or Linux/StrongARM, or does someone have to port each package and make it available for FTP somewhere, and hope that people can find it? That's my current impression.
The last point is that NetBSD (and FreeBSD, and I assume OpenBSD) does Linux emulation. With this, I can keep my comfortable, nice environment, and still use stuff like Quake that has only been released for GNU/Linux. (Or Solaris, in that case, but that doesn't apply.) That why, for instance, I wrote to Blizzard and said I wanted Diablo II to run under Linux. I told them that I was running NetBSD, but that NetBSD could run Linux binaries, and that a Linux-native Diablo II would be something I'd buy.
So, the upshot: It's cool that we're running on UltraSPARCS now. It's not half-bad hardware, in my experience, although IMHO you're trading quality for performance as compared to fast Intel hardware, which tends to be faster but which isn't half as meaty in terms of... quality.
PS: If you've never run NetBSD, give it a try. It's free, and it's neat.
Okay, so, if I have a source RPM, it's essentially platform-independant, as long as I have the right libc (and/or other requisites), which is also available on all the alternative platforms?
If this is the case, then I guess it's not all that bad. I'd still miss the automatic FTPing, and the automated package system updates I get by supping the package source daily.
Hm. Thanks for the answer.
One thing that I'm curious about, that may be a mis-understanding on my part, is the package systems on non-i386 GNU/Linux platforms. How integrated are alternative architectures? On NetBSD, I can cd into /usr/pkgsrc and make pretty much any package on any platform, without having to ftp anything manually. Are things this slick on, say, Linux/Alpha or Linux/StrongARM, or does someone have to port each package and make it available for FTP somewhere, and hope that people can find it? That's my current impression.
Under Debian Linux, the non-i386 are treated just like i386. If a package comes in, it's then built for the sparc, i386, alpha and any other system, and they can be downloaded from any Debian mirror as a binary package. If you want the source, the source is available, but isn't automatically downloadable.
Is there a reason that every NetBSD story gets a "FreeBSD News" Icon on it?
Really eh? Look who is smearing who here. And it's almost amusing how I'm using my real name, and yet, *gasp* you can't even slander people like a person with a spine.
'Sides look who jumped on who. Seems like the Linux "camp" has some inate need to yawn everytime BSD news is posted. Get over yourself, you're not all that you never will be.
The revolution will be mocked
I'd really like to request that Anonymous Cowards not be allowed to post, but I'd settle for a reading mode wherein I can tell slashdot to simply not display comments from ACs.
Thanks,
Peter
Relax, don't get so uptight. Its not that big of a deal :)
-Master Switch, one more element in the machine
> but I will NEVER use Linux because of the
> arrogant "society" in which it lives.
One imature kiddie makes an immature comment, and you think the whole society is arrogant?
You'll find this attitude with Win9x users, OS/2 Users, MacOS users, Amiga users, and yes even FreeBSD/OpenBSD users. I think it is unfair to judge the OS by a small, yet vocal, segment of it's users. I love Linux, but, if someones wants to love another OS, well, thats once of the whole foundations OSS was built upon, choice. Don't take mine away, or begrudge me for it, and I'll fight for your right to choose as I did, whatever that choice maybe.
It is sad to see that some linux advocates use their time spreading FUD about BSD. It seems that everytime BSD is mentioned on Slashdot their boodpressure rise and they start bashing. And I don`t understand it.
These developers have worked very hard , in their sparetime, to make this port and they give it away for free! And they get flamed by some idiots about it!
I say well done NetBSD.
It's probably not worth responding to nonsense like this, but:
what in hell are you talking about? The only place `there are winners and losers' is in the closed source world, where if you don't make the big bucks your product dies even if it's better than everything else out there. This is the game microsoft plays -- it's not an approach that makes any sense in the open source world.
Once more: Open source software is not a zero sum game. If more projects set out to write the same thing, more ideas get tried, and everyone wins. Why are you trying to stop this?