Mech.Eng writes "SGI is officially supporting Linux on servers.
This is
their press release "
80 comments
Growing support
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Anonymous Coward
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As this illustrates, Unix is not dead, nor is it dying. Give Linux/FreeBSD a year or so to start gaining a significant chunk of the server market.
Hopefully more companies like SGI will jump on the bandwagon. Long live OSS!
http://www.yellow5.com/pokey
SGI servers
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Anonymous Coward
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aha but you know what the catch is? What about linux as an intel workstation with openGL just like they are doing with NT?
The more choices, the better
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Anonymous Coward
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NT or not, OS choice is a Good Thing (TM)
Linux a trademark?
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Anonymous Coward
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Didn't Linus register Linux as a trademark or something?? SGI didn't mention that. Besides that it's great that SGI now supports our favorit Pinguin:-)
Fair Benchmarking
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Anonymous Coward
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Can anyone point me to some good Linux vs NT benchmarking.
Of course, Apache vs IIS is a no-brainer - I'm particularly interested in Samba vs NT Native File and Print.
(Please, no NT bLOo sKRen Sukx Linuz & x11aMP Rox.. please.)
sex
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Anonymous Coward
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Yes, I do...;-) Lots o' fun. But caring for the little sprog is another matter.
Can I use the graphics hardware?
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Anonymous Coward
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I have some Mesa apps -- if I got an SGI box with Linux on it, would I be able to take my apps and have them run fast? Or do I need a special OpenGL library for the SGI (doesn't exist probably). Or am I better off with Irix?
Servers? What about the workstations?
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Anonymous Coward
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Dammit, I want Linux on the spiffy SGI workstations with the cool graphics hardware.
Linux a winner on SGI
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Anonymous Coward
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The greatest money maker in the history of the motion picture industry was Titanic. It is the most popular movie of all time. Linux played a role in almost every scene---a render farm of over 100 firecracker hot DEC Alphas running Linux. SGI saw this and said ``Ouch! We are no longer King of the World...'' Now SGI want's a stake in the Linux action; they want to share in Linux world domination.
Linux: ``I'm King of the World!''
SGI servers
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Anonymous Coward
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Lets hope so. I like the new box quite a bit. It going to be a waste otherwise. I guess there is always my O2.....
Potato Head. Too lazy to login.
This is great!
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Anonymous Coward
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There's this great quote from "Speaker for the Dead" by Orson Scott Card that goes something like this: When we recognize others as sentient beings, it doesn't mean that they've transcended some standard. It means that WE have.
In this case, I'm glad to see that _companies_ are beginning to grow up. *grin*
dyoo@nospam.uclink4.berkeley.edu
SGI Wakes Up?
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Anonymous Coward
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The interesting thing (to me) was the snippet about new MIPS CPUs. SGI had previously announced that MIPS would be canned in favour of IA-64. Since then, IA-64 has been delayed (twice? thrice?) and looks like being a mediocre performer (at least as Merced).
HP, who are Intel's partners in IA-64, broke ranks a while back and announced a road map of future PA-RISC processors.
Nice to see that someone's awake at SGI.
P.S. I'm not an anonymous coward; it's just that my chosen nick causes a SQL error. Ha!
No Subject Given
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Anonymous Coward
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Yes, this is good but... i'd take IRIX 6.5 anyday over Linux, IRIX real professional apps, Linux doesnt.
Growing support
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Anonymous Coward
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Isn't 17% a significant chunk already?
MEEPT!!!
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Anonymous Coward
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Actually, I'm not really MEEPT!. Sorry to disappoint you. Here's a poem:
dingalingdongdambamlongbong whoopydoscrumbillibobsingalong using linux for everything is just plain wrong
Thank you for your time. This has been a test of the emergency MEEPT broadcast system. If this had been a real MEEPT, you'd already be flaming the bejeezus out of me.
Sockets in Linux
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Anonymous Coward
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... that would be NET3.
ACE Initiativea again?
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Anonymous Coward
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SGI will have 2 processor families and 3 operating systems. That gives 6 combinations. Will their customers support them in this?
Growing support
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Anonymous Coward
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Well Apple is supporting BSD by using it in macos x
UltraHLE: The World's First Working N64 Emulator
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Anonymous Coward
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SGI are selling off some of their stake in MIPS (they currently own 85%, I think). But MIPS will still develop MIPS chips - it's what they do. And other companies (such as IDT, Toshiba, Sandcraft and QED) are also developing MIPS chips.
Besides which, MIPS concentrate on the embedded market. SGI have and will continue to develop the high-end chips (like the R12000) themselves.
I'd like to see more info on these new plans, but SGI are pretty cagey on unnanounced products. Guess we'll have to wait until the MIPS chip ships.
SQL Error
Implement gfx support and I'll buy it next month
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Anonymous Coward
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There's 3 things I need now: - a TV - color management - Linux with 3D accel.
Let's see: - O2 won't support higher resolutions tnan 1600x1024 (nor Linux) - G4s are not there yet - These are not just another mee-too PCs. - I already have an IRIX machine - I really want that 1600SW (on whatever)
So, will these be `graphics Linux servers' SGI, or I'll have to settle for a PowerMac with the new 21'' display (neither wide nor flat)? At least I'll be able to run like a dozen different OSs on it (including M$ trash if I cared)..
SGI's usable?
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Anonymous Coward
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How usable is Linux with SGI hardware? There's no official distrib like for the Sun stuff, ie RH do a distrib. And the Linux SGI pages look pretty dead!! Can you even use X with Linux on SGI? From what I can see you can also only use it on old models of the SGI!! I'm guessing that Alpha's are a better bet, and Linus uses Alphas too so it is gonna stay well supported!
Silicon Graphics owns approximately 85% of MIPS Technologies' shares of common stock.
and
The recapitalization plan creates a structure to manage an orderly multistep divestiture of Silicon Graphics' ownership of MIPS Technologies, with the divestiture expected to be complete by September 30, 2000.
(I read that as "if we sell the shares all at once the price will go down".)
I can't find anything about the R12K or R14K, but I'm pretty sure it's SGI and not MIPS that's doing the development. I understand that the R12K is a pretty straightforward upgrade from the R10K and will be available in current systems (O2/Octane/Origin/Onyx2).
SQL Error
ccNUMA linux?
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Anonymous Coward
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I'd like to see SGI integrate ccNUMA support into the linux kernel. Linux needs to enter the sclable server market, and a Linux Origin 2000 system would be great. If SGI can _add_ to unix, and by add, I mean release Open code, then I'll be very pleased. And, oh yes, get linux up and running on an indigo 2 so I can make use of this pile of machines I've got lying around.
sex
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Anonymous Coward
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eh? i don't see anything untruthful about it... sex = fun, kids (what i presume he means by "sprogs") = pain in the ass.
Linux a winner on SGI
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Anonymous Coward
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It traumatized me to know that this movie that I despised so much and refused to see used my favorite operating system to do the f/x rendering. I was tempted to go to the theaters to see it just to see the digital water and models that those Alphas rendered, but I held firm with my resolve not to shell out the cash and be forced to sit through a cheesy love story with that Dicaprio doofus as the lead. I have seen the f/x in the movie, but only after my sister bought the video and corrupted our household.
SGI servers
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Anonymous Coward
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I went to a SGI briefing on the new 320 and 540 models yesterday. An engineer told me that X support is being worked on in house. I didn't ask about OpenGL, but I can't see them doing X without it.
Jason
only runs on Win95
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Anonymous Coward
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i'm sticking with the real thing...
_REAL_ Nintendo 64 by Nintendo running original games - emulators are only cool to show of demos and development and playing games is not about being cool or writing emulators to emulate the best games.
I saw some posts on freebsd-advocay, is development comitted by FreeBSD, or SGI?
Has to give it away?
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Anonymous Coward
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You contridicted yourself. You said that if Linux were to become commercial it would fail; then you said Linux does not have to be free to compete with Microsoft. Make up your mind.
Yest it does.
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Anonymous Coward
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If it had not been given away, Linux would be just a toy. There's probably more G$ of effort on Linux than on any Microcrap product. Which company would have invested that kind of money w/o return during 10 years in the '90s?
very subtle...
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Anonymous Coward
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Note how, in the press release, Linux starts out being mentioned first (one instance), then NT is mentioned first several times, then Linux disappears from the discussion entirely.
SGI is just trying to avoid criticism from the Linux community. They describe these boxes enthusiastically as "NT boxes" when they parade them around in their wienermobile (SGI has a truck that goes hither, thither and yon; it's full of SGI hardware, and they demo the stuff from the truck...). The wiener dudes on the truck don't know Linux, and they talk about uncle Bill as if he was SGI's best bud.
Look out.
Phil
Linux a winner on SGI
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Anonymous Coward
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Well, I never watched the whole thing so I didn't get to see the end. After you mentioning this though, I think I'll try to procure this video from my sister's collection and watch the death sequences at the end.
Dragged Kicking and Screaming
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Anonymous Coward
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Why does it seem that sooo many companies just have to be dragged kicking and screaming towards Linux? Come on! We don't really need (or want) SGI Linux servers. Personally I expected that SGI would take the lead in moving Linux to the 3D Workstation market. Hell, we've got Linux servers up the wazoo. The world doesn't need another one. Just shows how fscked SGI has gotten. 3-5 years ago they would have been at the fore-front on this one. They just no longer have what it takes.
Who'd have ever thought "SGI: big, slow, conservative..."???
You think SGI's A|W division will *ever* get around to releasing even an Alias or Maya renderer for Linux? Christ, how long has the world been asking for this product?
Untapped revenue source by SGI.
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Anonymous Coward
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Unless there is Linux workstation support which includes OpenGL on it, mighty linux fans and thousands of small companies will not buy SGI hardware - another possible huge untapped revenue source for SGI. It is not that they dont have money like budgeted companies with their platform policies, these fans cough up money if they can get a good piece of equipment worth of it.
Interesting...
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Anonymous Coward
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Yes, this will be quite impressive. I'm actually a little surprised, though. Didn't SGI all but announce plans to abandon MIPS? Aren't they SELLING OFF their majority stake in MIPS?
Also, considering the cooling necessary for a current R10K, I'm wondering just how much flouinert you're going to need;)
SGI's reaction at their product rollout
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Anonymous Coward
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I just attended SGI's rollout here in Cincinnati, and was very impressed by the machines. Towards the end of the discussion, the SGI rep mentioned linux support, also mentioning that HP was to do the same. Just a little tidbit o' info. It seems SGI is at least pseudo-serious about this.
It COULD happen - First SERVERS then WORDSTATIONS
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Anonymous Coward
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It might happen, but more slowly than with servers. People have been wanting to integrate low cost Intel hardware in techical computing applications and have been grudgingly accepting NT because there has been no other good choice until now. Success in server-space will legitimize Linux and soon people might see that Linux on Intel would give them a totally integrated techincal computing envirnment with their higher-end UNIX boxes. Once the demand is there the apps will come. (The UNIX-based apps should be pretty easy for the vendors to port anyway.)
Technical users overwhelmingly want Linux but management must first be convinced that it is legit, which is getting easier every day.
STOP REMOVING THREADS
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Anonymous Coward
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Rob, can you please tell whoever is editing the threads to stop removing them altogether? Knock them to -1 if you must but deleting them entirely is lame.
Um, not yet AFAIK
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Anonymous Coward
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the whole _point_ of the custom SGI silicon is to preclude the necessity of an addon card..
particularly one which can only handle 16-bit color...
YUP...MORE PSEUDO LINUX SUPPORT
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Anonymous Coward
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I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's a typo, but 3DLabs is not the company you're talking about; it's 3DFX. You probably DO know this, because you included the URL to the 3DFX website. 3DLabs is the name of a DIFFERENT 3D chip company, but I don't think they're supporting Linux at all.
Speaking of GL...
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Anonymous Coward
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WTF is NVidia waiting for in not delivering OpenGL for TNT? Remember some NVidia dude came on/. several months ago claiming some binary would be released "soon" to allow real 3D accel. Well, we are STILL waiting! Come on NVidia.
Why Free?
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Anonymous Coward
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I think he missed the point - Linux didn't have to be open source to compete with Microsoft, it had to be open source to get DEVELOPED. No for-profit company would have spent six years developing Linux to the point it is today in the hopes of competing with Microsoft.
sprogs
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Anonymous Coward
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good lord, get that 2x4 out of your butt. don't make me start tellin' child molester jokes...
Won't happen.
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Anonymous Coward
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1) SGI owns a large proportion of the cool 3D software for Irix. It shouldn't be that hard for them to port it.
2) If SGI put the box out with real 3D support for Linux, a lot of other apps would get ported.
apologies...
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Anonymous Coward
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It wasn't a typo...but a brain fart! Anyway, there is *supposed* to be support for the permedia2 (from 3DLabs, hehheh) on the way via SUSE.
once again, it's all so vague as to what will come when, except for the sets from 3Dfx.
I didn't mean to mix the two.
I'm not too sure I beleive the new Creative Labs post, since I think NDA's have to come from the chip makers, not the board makers. If the chipmakers only authorized WinNT/98/95/2000 work, I don't see how anything for Linux can get released.
--- John
sex
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Anonymous Coward
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get a grip. really. loosen up, get laid. or at the least, a really good massage. release that tension... and then you won't be such an up-tight SOB.
SGI servers
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Anonymous Coward
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I will put it this way. Your gut feeling is right on the money.
Yes: SGI woke up
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Anonymous Coward
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I used to be at SGI or Cray. We had several processors in the works that were canned in favor of the Intel stuff. The first processor after the R10k was named the Beast. It was a BHAG idea for a processor. I cannot describe the thing in detail, but it would have given 21264 folks some seriously wet dreams (or sleepless nights). Then there was the one after that named Alien. Putting it this way, Beast design goal was about 4-5x better than the best 21264 planned in raw performance. Alien was basically a T90 on a chip. It was enough to give you a serious woody. What I remember of the project (I left right after both were canned) was that the thing had been slated to ship this year.
While I no longer work for these guys (call it a massive difference of opinion), I sure as hell hope that that Beast is reborn. If this is a warmed over R10k or R12k, then SGI could be in a little trouble. Aside from that, I would like to own a machine that said `powered by Beast' or `Beast Inside'.
Minor aside: Beast was dropped in favor of IA64. I bet Mashey and the rest of the folks there are now saying a collective `awe shit'. Remember that the part of MIPS that was spun off does the low end game devices. The HPC portion of MIPS does the number smashers.
Microsoft's Maritz cracks on Redhat, tries to play Linux defense. Other neat tidbit: Judge Jackson notices that Linux has to give product away to compete with M$.
I think they're serious...
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Peter+Amstutz
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... I hardly think it would be responsible of a major technology company to write a check with their mouth that their asses can't cash. In other words, if they pay lip service and don't follow through, they lose credibility, which is what the business is all about. Unless of course you are Microsoft...
Nice, but I want to see **WORKSTATION** support
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Bill+Henning
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Server support is nice, but I'd like to see Linux support for all their nice (drool) graphics hardware... Ok, I am a sucker for 3D graphics, and while the Riva TNT, Voodoo (2 & banshee), G200 etc. have given PC's decent 3D graphics, you can never have too fast 3D.
Carrerra Alpha Workstations were only used for rendering. The lion's share of the actual content was developed on SGIs, and a small amount on Alpha machines running Lightwave for NT.
Sure. Anything from Ziff-Davis will be in favor of Microsoft/Windows,because those folks don't understand how to configure software or hardware for any other platform/OS
So, how far away are the SGI propriatry X drivers for the VPC now? Will GL be included? Assuming that SGI writes closed source drivers for X in Linux, is this a good or a bad thing? (good to have useable new hardware with superior graphics to existing x86 Linux, bad cause it might be closed?)
SGI supports Linux. What's so hard to understand?
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BadlandZ
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I did read the article. Yes it says servers. That's why the next obvious question is about X.
I have also read many other SGI comments and stories lately, and the burning question is X. Everyone is asking about X. So, lot's of people care about X. And when SGI announces that they will offically support linux for servers, people want to know "what about X?"
What's so hard to understand about people wanting X? Linux already runs on the Indy and the VPC, and therefore there is nothing new about being able to have a Linux/SGI server. The news story is about "SGI Offically Supporting Linux" and thier statement is that they will support it on SERVERS... Well, great, afaik, the support we recieve for IRIX is NOT great, and VERY expensive, so, although it's good PR for LINUX and SGI, it's not really that exciting of news when it comes down to the facts. What IS interesting about it is, with "offical" SGI support for linux in "some" ways, is this going to lead to what people REALLY want from SGI/LINUX... which is X.
What's so hard to understand about asking the _real_ question burning in peoples minds?
Did YOU Read the Artical?
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BadlandZ
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"and developing a server based on the Intel® IA-32 processor that will support Linux and Windows NT® operating systems."
So, what do you know about IA-32/Linux/SGI? What do you suspect the "server" design will be based on?
"As we enter the low-end of the market with 32-bit systems, we will support Windows NT and Linux, again giving our customers what they have been asking for," said Vrolyk.
I read comp.sys.sgi.hardware and the other comp.sys.sgi.* groups often... Do you? What do YOU see people asking for? SGI/LINUX servers? or SGI/Linux w/ X + GL?
Apparently they want to make IRIX pure-64bit so they don't want to port it to IA32. Linux lets them deliver a good Unix anyway.
Now how about Veritas as a binary-only module? If it's as good as it's reputation it should be worth having. Of course, SCT's new journalled ext2 will narrow the gap by removing the need for a conventional fsck.
The latest motherboards for Alpha 21264/AMD K7 get some really good benchmarks for Streams (see the entry for the Compaq AlphaServer DS20, after the Crays), which measure the system's ability to shift a lot of data fast.
This is apparently the same motherboard that Microway is selling with its 6-way crossbar between the dual processor/RAM/PCI busses. The question is, with AMD set to beat Intel in absolute performance, and with high-end Alpha motherboards taking the K7, should SGI be basing their IA32 offerings on this bus instead of the P-II bus?
A reaction to comp.arch FUD
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Erik+Corry
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This looks like a reaction to the recent/current thread about what SGI are going to do when Merced is late and a disappointment. The Register picked up on it, and transferred it to the halfway mainstream online press, and they needed to do something to restore confidence.
Also the Linux bit is a reaction to all their dyed-in-the-wool Unix fans who liked the new machines, but hate NT.
C'mon! Doesn't Apache predate all commercial web servers? I mean, at it's roots. The first web servers were *all* free software. The commercial companies cloned the free software!
God. Next thing you know, Microsoft will have invented the internet...
Innovative free software: Mosaic, NCSA web server, Gopher, Archie, e-mail (in general),...
Oooo, I'm spitting mad. Claiming We're just a bunch of cloners....
Wisdom spreads slowly but steady!
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Candy
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Seems like more suits recognize the fact that: Win98/95 == Nintendo enhancement for PC WinNT == Nice Try OS Linux == REAL OS what means it perfectly to customize, easy to maintain, rock stable and even better: it is Open Source.
Yes it's a Tradmark owned by Linus. William De LaCroche Jr. used to own an illegitmate trademark on Linux, this was overturned in 1997 and the trademark rightly given to Linus and the internet community.
Will they "downgrade" the price of their workstation ? (I mean the Mips powered Ones).
Will they help de optimisation of the "Free" compiler tools - like egcs and gcc ?
Will this support help the Mesa to get OpenGL certification ?
These are the real Linux-related Q....
--
none Yet.
Note no mention at all of MIPS Linux
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kma
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Why on earth would you want linux on a 256p Origin 2000? Because IRIX scales too well? Seriously, what technical merit would Linux have over IRIX? Linux is a great desktop operating system, and IRIX is a great high-end OS.? Do you think Linux is _always_ the right thing?
Funny that now that most of the really hard work is done for them companies are saying "Oh we think Linux is great". I know this sounds like a rant but, in a way it bugs me that most of these companies wouldn't have said Linux and serious in the same sentence 12 months ago. Oh well, I suppose better late then never, I didn't even "discover" Linux until about 19 months or so ago.
--
if my wife asks a question, and I'm not paying attention, and then I answer wrong does it still count
I think Apache on NT is still "beta"
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A+nonymous+Coward
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Or at least used to be; the official line was that it works, but should not be considered production quality like the Unix counterpart. So it wouldn't be a fair test yet.
When IA64 becomes a reality both NT and Linux will be there (of course, Linux will be first:-) regardless of what SGI does and without SGI having to invest much anyway.
Therein lies the key....
Are customers going to wait for NT if they need 64bit horsepower without spending a billion dollars on a high-end box?
Prolly not. The jump to a 64bit architecture will likely be a serious blow to NT in the market-place and give Linux a real serious jump, especially with SGI users...
-- "Although we may build the technology that we define as
tools, we must be vigilant that those tools do not define us."
The VP of SGI's VisPC group said SGI and Intel have a very close relationship that would be "difficult" to have with multiple vendors. IMHO they took a crapshoot that Merced/Willamette would be out they now, so they got in bed with Intel. Doh!!!
Damn shame, too.
-- --
Liquor up front, poker in the rear.
Note no mention at all of MIPS Linux
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Koyote
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Notice that they carefully (and repeatedly) mentioned only Linux for IA32. NOT IA64 or, particularly, MIPS. But IRIX for MIPS will be continued and enhanced. They think they can farm Linux on the low-end servers while still charging big bux for IRIX on the 'high-end'. They just don't get it yet -- people want Linux on the 'high-end' servers _too_ -- with OpenGL support for the hardware, etc.
And geeks wonder why geeks are shunned and ostracized by the populace at large! At least don't say things like that out loud, if you're trying to impress a girl =) Unless she's a geek too that thought DiCrapio didn't die soon enough... -Twink
Slashdot Mirror
As this illustrates, Unix is not dead, nor is it dying. Give Linux/FreeBSD a year or so to start gaining a significant chunk of the server market.
Hopefully more companies like SGI will jump on the bandwagon. Long live OSS!
http://www.yellow5.com/pokey
aha but you know what the catch is? What about linux as an intel workstation with openGL just like they are doing with NT?
NT or not, OS choice is a Good Thing (TM)
Didn't Linus register Linux as a trademark or :-)
something?? SGI didn't mention that.
Besides that it's great that SGI now supports
our favorit Pinguin
Can anyone point me to some good Linux vs NT benchmarking.
.. please.)
Of course, Apache vs IIS is a no-brainer - I'm particularly interested in Samba vs NT Native File and Print.
(Please, no NT bLOo sKRen Sukx Linuz & x11aMP Rox
Yes, I do... ;-) Lots o' fun. But caring for the little sprog is another matter.
I have some Mesa apps -- if I got an SGI box
with Linux on it, would I be able to take my
apps and have them run fast? Or do I need
a special OpenGL library for the SGI (doesn't
exist probably). Or am I better off with Irix?
Dammit, I want Linux on the spiffy SGI workstations with the cool graphics hardware.
Linux: ``I'm King of the World!''
Lets hope so. I like the new box quite a bit. It going to be a waste otherwise. I guess there is always my O2.....
Potato Head. Too lazy to login.
There's this great quote from "Speaker for the Dead" by Orson Scott Card that goes something like this: When we recognize others as sentient beings, it doesn't mean that they've transcended some standard. It means that WE have.
In this case, I'm glad to see that _companies_ are beginning to grow up. *grin*
dyoo@nospam.uclink4.berkeley.edu
The interesting thing (to me) was the snippet about new MIPS CPUs. SGI had previously announced that MIPS would be canned in favour of IA-64. Since then, IA-64 has been delayed (twice? thrice?) and looks like being a mediocre performer (at least as Merced).
HP, who are Intel's partners in IA-64, broke ranks a while back and announced a road map of future PA-RISC processors.
Nice to see that someone's awake at SGI.
P.S. I'm not an anonymous coward; it's just that my chosen nick causes a SQL error. Ha!
Yes, this is good but... i'd take IRIX 6.5 anyday over Linux, IRIX real professional apps, Linux doesnt.
Isn't 17% a significant chunk already?
Actually, I'm not really MEEPT!. Sorry to disappoint you. Here's a poem:
dingalingdongdambamlongbong
whoopydoscrumbillibobsingalong
using linux for everything is just plain wrong
Thank you for your time. This has been a test of the emergency MEEPT broadcast system. If this had been a real MEEPT, you'd already be flaming the bejeezus out of me.
... that would be NET3.
SGI will have 2 processor families and 3 operating systems.
That gives 6 combinations. Will their customers support them in this?
Well Apple is supporting BSD by using it in macos x
HERE!!!
SGI are selling off some of their stake in MIPS (they currently own 85%, I think). But MIPS will still develop MIPS chips - it's what they do. And other companies (such as IDT, Toshiba, Sandcraft and QED) are also developing MIPS chips.
Besides which, MIPS concentrate on the embedded market. SGI have and will continue to develop the high-end chips (like the R12000) themselves.
I'd like to see more info on these new plans, but SGI are pretty cagey on unnanounced products. Guess we'll have to wait until the MIPS chip ships.
SQL Error
There's 3 things I need now:
- a TV
- color management
- Linux with 3D accel.
Let's see:
- O2 won't support higher
resolutions tnan 1600x1024 (nor Linux)
- G4s are not there yet
- These are not just another mee-too PCs.
- I already have an IRIX machine
- I really want that 1600SW (on whatever)
So, will these be `graphics Linux servers' SGI,
or I'll have to settle for a PowerMac with the new 21'' display (neither wide nor flat)? At least I'll be able to run like a dozen different OSs
on it (including M$ trash if I cared)..
How usable is Linux with SGI hardware?
There's no official distrib like for the Sun stuff, ie RH do a distrib. And the Linux SGI pages look pretty dead!!
Can you even use X with Linux on SGI? From what I can see you can also only use it on old models of the SGI!!
I'm guessing that Alpha's are a better bet, and Linus uses Alphas too so it is gonna stay well supported!
Nope. As of Jan 14 (from www.mips.com):
Silicon Graphics owns approximately 85% of MIPS Technologies' shares of common stock.
and
The recapitalization plan creates a structure to manage an orderly multistep divestiture of Silicon Graphics' ownership of MIPS Technologies, with the divestiture expected to be complete by September 30, 2000.
(I read that as "if we sell the shares all at once the price will go down".)
I can't find anything about the R12K or R14K, but I'm pretty sure it's SGI and not MIPS that's doing the development. I understand that the R12K is a pretty straightforward upgrade from the R10K and will be available in current systems (O2/Octane/Origin/Onyx2).
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I'd like to see SGI integrate ccNUMA support into the linux kernel. Linux needs to enter the sclable server market, and a Linux Origin 2000 system would be great. If SGI can _add_ to unix, and by add, I mean release Open code, then I'll be very pleased. And, oh yes, get linux up and running on an indigo 2 so I can make use of this pile of machines I've got lying around.
eh? i don't see anything untruthful about it... sex = fun, kids (what i presume he means by "sprogs") = pain in the ass.
It traumatized me to know that this movie that I despised so much and refused to see used my favorite operating system to do the f/x rendering. I was tempted to go to the theaters to see it just to see the digital water and models that those Alphas rendered, but I held firm with my resolve not to shell out the cash and be forced to sit through a cheesy love story with that Dicaprio doofus as the lead. I have seen the f/x in the movie, but only after my sister bought the video and corrupted our household.
I went to a SGI briefing on the new 320 and 540 models yesterday. An engineer told me that X support is being worked on in house. I didn't ask about OpenGL, but I can't see them doing X without it.
Jason
i'm sticking with the real thing...
_REAL_ Nintendo 64 by Nintendo running original games - emulators are only cool to show of demos and development and playing games is not about being cool or writing emulators to emulate the best games.
and do you know if there is a FreeBSD port?
I saw some posts on freebsd-advocay, is development comitted by FreeBSD, or SGI?
You contridicted yourself. You said that if Linux were to become commercial it would fail; then you said Linux does not have to be free to compete with Microsoft. Make up your mind.
If it had not been given away, Linux would be just a toy. There's probably more G$ of effort on Linux
than on any Microcrap product. Which company would have invested that kind of money w/o return during 10 years in the '90s?
Note how, in the press release, Linux starts out being mentioned first (one instance), then NT is mentioned first several times, then Linux disappears from the discussion entirely.
SGI is just trying to avoid criticism from the Linux community. They describe these boxes enthusiastically as "NT boxes" when they parade them around in their wienermobile (SGI has a truck that goes hither, thither and yon; it's full of SGI hardware, and they demo the stuff from the truck...). The wiener dudes on the truck don't know Linux, and they talk about uncle Bill as if he was SGI's best bud.
Look out.
Phil
Well, I never watched the whole thing so I didn't get to see the end. After you mentioning this though, I think I'll try to procure this video from my sister's collection and watch the death sequences at the end.
Why does it seem that sooo many companies just have to be dragged kicking and screaming towards Linux? Come on! We don't really need (or want) SGI Linux servers. Personally I expected that SGI would take the lead in moving Linux to the 3D Workstation market. Hell, we've got Linux servers up the wazoo. The world doesn't need another one. Just shows how fscked SGI has gotten. 3-5 years ago they would have been at the fore-front on this one. They just no longer have what it takes.
Who'd have ever thought "SGI: big, slow, conservative..."???
You think SGI's A|W division will *ever* get around to releasing even an Alias or Maya renderer for Linux? Christ, how long has the world been asking for this product?
Unless there is Linux workstation support which includes OpenGL on it, mighty linux fans and thousands of small companies will not buy SGI hardware - another possible huge untapped revenue source for SGI. It is not that they dont have money like budgeted companies with their platform policies, these fans cough up money if they can get a good piece of equipment worth of it.
Yes, this will be quite impressive. I'm actually a little surprised, though. Didn't SGI all but announce plans to abandon MIPS? Aren't they SELLING OFF their majority stake in MIPS?
;)
Also, considering the cooling necessary for a current R10K, I'm wondering just how much flouinert you're going to need
I just attended SGI's rollout here in Cincinnati, and was very impressed by the machines. Towards the end of the discussion, the SGI rep mentioned linux support, also mentioning that HP was to do the same. Just a little tidbit o' info. It seems SGI is at least pseudo-serious about this.
It might happen, but more slowly than with servers. People have been wanting to integrate low cost Intel hardware in techical computing applications and have been grudgingly accepting NT because there has been no other good choice until now. Success in server-space will legitimize Linux and soon people might see that Linux on Intel would give them a totally integrated techincal computing envirnment with their higher-end UNIX boxes. Once the demand is there the apps will come. (The UNIX-based apps should be pretty easy for the vendors to port anyway.)
Technical users overwhelmingly want Linux but management must first be convinced that it is legit, which is getting easier every day.
Rob, can you please tell whoever is editing the threads to stop removing them altogether? Knock them to -1 if you must but deleting them entirely is lame.
the whole _point_ of the custom SGI silicon is to preclude the necessity of an addon card..
particularly one which can only handle 16-bit color...
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's a typo, but 3DLabs is not the company you're talking about; it's 3DFX. You probably DO know this, because you included the URL to the 3DFX website. 3DLabs is the name of a DIFFERENT 3D chip company, but I don't think they're supporting Linux at all.
WTF is NVidia waiting for in not delivering OpenGL for TNT? Remember some NVidia dude came on /. several months ago claiming some binary would be released "soon" to allow real 3D accel. Well, we are STILL waiting! Come on NVidia.
I think he missed the point - Linux didn't have to be open source to compete with Microsoft, it had to be open source to get DEVELOPED. No for-profit company would have spent six years developing Linux to the point it is today in the hopes of competing with Microsoft.
good lord, get that 2x4 out of your butt. don't make me start tellin' child molester jokes...
1) SGI owns a large proportion of the cool 3D software for Irix. It shouldn't be that hard for them to port it.
2) If SGI put the box out with real 3D support for Linux, a lot of other apps would get ported.
It wasn't a typo...but a brain fart! Anyway, there is *supposed* to be support for the permedia2 (from 3DLabs, hehheh) on the way via SUSE.
once again, it's all so vague as to what will come when, except for the sets from 3Dfx.
I didn't mean to mix the two.
I'm not too sure I beleive the new Creative Labs post, since I think NDA's have to come from the chip makers, not the board makers. If the chipmakers only authorized WinNT/98/95/2000 work, I don't see how anything for Linux can get released.
---
John
get a grip. really. loosen up, get laid. or at the least, a really good massage. release that tension... and then you won't be such an up-tight SOB.
I will put it this way. Your gut feeling is right on the money.
I used to be at SGI or Cray. We had several processors in the works that were canned in favor of the Intel stuff. The first processor after the R10k was named the Beast. It was a BHAG idea for a processor. I cannot describe the thing in detail, but it would have given 21264 folks some seriously wet dreams (or sleepless nights). Then there was the one after that named Alien. Putting it this way, Beast design goal was about 4-5x better than the best 21264 planned in raw performance. Alien was basically a T90 on a chip. It was enough to give you a serious woody. What I remember of the project (I left right after both were canned) was that the thing had been slated to ship this year.
While I no longer work for these guys (call it a massive difference of opinion), I sure as hell hope that that Beast is reborn. If this is a warmed over R10k or R12k, then SGI could be in a little trouble. Aside from that, I would like to own a machine that said `powered by Beast' or `Beast Inside'.
Minor aside: Beast was dropped in favor of IA64. I bet Mashey and the rest of the folks there are now saying a collective `awe shit'. Remember that the part of MIPS that was spun off does the low end game devices. The HPC portion of MIPS does the number smashers.
Read about it on the M$ PropagandaPass website
After all, Sun gets and icon. :)
I read the internet for the articles.
... I hardly think it would be responsible of a major technology company to write a check with their mouth that their asses can't cash. In other words, if they pay lip service and don't follow through, they lose credibility, which is what the business is all about. Unless of course you are Microsoft...
Server support is nice, but I'd like to see Linux support for all their nice (drool) graphics hardware... Ok, I am a sucker for 3D graphics, and while the Riva TNT, Voodoo (2 & banshee), G200 etc. have given PC's decent 3D graphics, you can never have too fast 3D.
--------- Webmaster, http://www.cpureview.com and
Sigh.
Carrerra Alpha Workstations were only used for rendering. The lion's share of the actual content was developed on SGIs, and a small amount on Alpha machines running Lightwave for NT.
Repeat after me, "we love SGI." :)
I for one wouldn't mind an 800MHz MIPS in my next SGI! Probably an R12K or R14K.
Like SGI needs Linux? Get real...
Sure. Anything from Ziff-Davis will be in favor of Microsoft/Windows,because those folks don't understand how to configure software or hardware for any other platform/OS
So, how far away are the SGI propriatry X drivers for the VPC now? Will GL be included? Assuming that SGI writes closed source drivers for X in Linux, is this a good or a bad thing? (good to have useable new hardware with superior graphics to existing x86 Linux, bad cause it might be closed?)
I have also read many other SGI comments and stories lately, and the burning question is X. Everyone is asking about X. So, lot's of people care about X. And when SGI announces that they will offically support linux for servers, people want to know "what about X?"
What's so hard to understand about people wanting X? Linux already runs on the Indy and the VPC, and therefore there is nothing new about being able to have a Linux/SGI server. The news story is about "SGI Offically Supporting Linux" and thier statement is that they will support it on SERVERS... Well, great, afaik, the support we recieve for IRIX is NOT great, and VERY expensive, so, although it's good PR for LINUX and SGI, it's not really that exciting of news when it comes down to the facts. What IS interesting about it is, with "offical" SGI support for linux in "some" ways, is this going to lead to what people REALLY want from SGI/LINUX... which is X.
What's so hard to understand about asking the _real_ question burning in peoples minds?
So, what do you know about IA-32/Linux/SGI? What do you suspect the "server" design will be based on?
"As we enter the low-end of the market with 32-bit systems, we will support Windows NT and Linux, again giving our customers what they have been asking for," said Vrolyk.
I read comp.sys.sgi.hardware and the other comp.sys.sgi.* groups often... Do you? What do YOU see people asking for? SGI/LINUX servers? or SGI/Linux w/ X + GL?
I'm so glad that rather large companies are supporting Linux...Linux has finally grown up. *snif*
But it could happen if SGI pull their finger out and port Maya to Linux...
"Be nice, veer left, and never stop thinking" Iain Banks - Walking On Glass
Now how about Veritas as a binary-only module? If it's as good as it's reputation it should be worth having. Of course, SCT's new journalled ext2 will narrow the gap by removing the need for a conventional fsck.
This is apparently the same motherboard that Microway is selling with its 6-way crossbar between the dual processor/RAM/PCI busses. The question is, with AMD set to beat Intel in absolute performance, and with high-end Alpha motherboards taking the K7, should SGI be basing their IA32 offerings on this bus instead of the P-II bus?
Also the Linux bit is a reaction to all their dyed-in-the-wool Unix fans who liked the new machines, but hate NT.
OK. That is an even better reason not to want to port to a 32-bit target (IA-32) now.
As for Veritas, SGI is much more excited about its own log-structured file system, XFS, and rightly so, IMHO
Oops, that's what I meant of course
"Clone web servers?"
C'mon! Doesn't Apache predate all commercial web servers? I mean, at it's roots. The first web servers were *all* free software. The commercial companies cloned the free software!
God. Next thing you know, Microsoft will have invented the internet...
Innovative free software: Mosaic, NCSA web server, Gopher, Archie, e-mail (in general),...
Oooo, I'm spitting mad. Claiming We're just a bunch of cloners....
Seems like more suits recognize the fact that:
Win98/95 == Nintendo enhancement for PC
WinNT == Nice Try OS
Linux == REAL OS what means it perfectly to customize, easy to maintain, rock stable and even better: it is Open Source.
Yes it's a Tradmark owned by Linus. William De LaCroche Jr. used to own an illegitmate trademark on Linux, this was overturned in 1997 and the trademark rightly given to Linus and the internet community.
Will they "downgrade" the price of their workstation ? (I mean the Mips powered Ones).
....
Will they help de optimisation of the "Free" compiler tools - like egcs and gcc ?
Will this support help the Mesa to get OpenGL certification ?
These are the real Linux-related Q
none Yet.
Why on earth would you want linux on a 256p Origin 2000? Because IRIX scales too well? Seriously, what technical merit would Linux have over IRIX? Linux is a great desktop operating system, and IRIX is a great high-end OS.? Do you think Linux is _always_ the right thing?
Funny that now that most of the really hard work is done for them companies are saying "Oh we think Linux is great". I know this sounds like a rant but, in a way it bugs me that most of these companies wouldn't have said Linux and serious in the same sentence 12 months ago. Oh well, I suppose better late then never, I didn't even "discover" Linux until about 19 months or so ago.
if my wife asks a question, and I'm not paying attention, and then I answer wrong does it still count
Or at least used to be; the official line was that it works, but should not be considered production quality like the Unix counterpart. So it wouldn't be a fair test yet.
--
Infuriate left and right
Yes, Linux is all about commercialisation. I don't think I need to say anything else.
Therein lies the key....
Are customers going to wait for NT if they need 64bit horsepower without spending a billion dollars on a high-end box?
Prolly not. The jump to a 64bit architecture will likely be a serious blow to NT in the market-place and give Linux a real serious jump, especially with SGI users...
"Although we may build the technology that we define as tools, we must be vigilant that those tools do not define us."
The VP of SGI's VisPC group said SGI and Intel have a very close relationship that would be "difficult" to have with multiple vendors. IMHO they took a crapshoot that Merced/Willamette would be out they now, so they got in bed with Intel. Doh!!!
Damn shame, too.
-- Liquor up front, poker in the rear.
Notice that they carefully (and repeatedly) mentioned only Linux for IA32. NOT IA64 or, particularly, MIPS. But IRIX for MIPS will be continued and enhanced. They think they can farm Linux on the low-end servers while still charging big bux for IRIX on the 'high-end'. They just don't get it yet -- people want Linux on the 'high-end' servers _too_ -- with OpenGL support for the hardware, etc.
Face it, M$, Now you're about to have some serious benchmark problems with NT to contend with.
Anyone want to form a betting pool on how some popular magazines benchmark's are going to turn out?
********* sig: If you don't like the law, get filthy stinking rich, and buy a better one.
And geeks wonder why geeks are shunned and ostracized by the populace at large! At least don't say things like that out loud, if you're trying to impress a girl =)
Unless she's a geek too that thought DiCrapio didn't die soon enough...
-Twink