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IBM Joins Linux International
Chris DiBona wrote in
to tell as that Linux International
is sporting a Big Blue new Member
in the form of IBM Software
They've been supporting Apache for awhile, and now DB2
comes to Linux. Wonder what else they might have in store.
i want visual age java
I want Lotus 1-2-3.
sample code for modem/dsp without signing NDA
7 watt average processor....IBM PPC 750
cache
Linux/PPC cds
reference sheet for writing drivers
USB ports (FireWire if you support it)
maybe hardware accelerated 3D API support
They're listed as a "Sponsoring Corporate Member" which I think means they've given LI some money. Too cool. I would guess that "official" Linux support of some sort will follow.
We live in exciting times.
BTW, I agree with your assessment of IBM's past tactics. However, they seem much chastened in recent years, so I am willing to let the Wolf sleep by the fire for now, but I shan't leave the baby unattended nor the pistols unloaded.
They killed OS/2 (R.I.P) and let the papows guy run Lotus to ground (or was that ordered from Redmond)... anyway, they can't kill Linux!
We'll see if there will be any "divisions" at all to offer "Linux solutions" some day. For now they're all busy selling Microsoft anything. "NT" seems to be the only thing that all of IBM proudly stands behind...
Oh, perhaps the PowerPC "division" will see the light and start offering inexpensive OEM boards and CPUs this year. One can always dream...
On the software.ibm.com page, there is no entry for Linux under the 'Select a Platform' dropdown menu :(
Sure, download the Partition Manager freeware program. Be sure to read the README that comes with the program: it's more crucial than the info at the site. If you don't already have a RH5.2 disc in hand, Cheapbytes was bundling Partition Manager with RedHat this fall, prolly still does.You don't have to use Ranish's BootManager, if you'd prefer to stick w/ LILO. That's what I do, so I know it works fine.
Flush the Monopoly!
I (and about a million others) would like to see them port the
WPS from OS/2 to Linux as a window manager. I'd even be
happy to pay them (say, $50) for it.
This rumour has been floating around even inside of Lotus. You can be assured, though, that you won't see SmartSuite on Linux any time soon. There is a great deal of Windows-specific stuff in all the apps that would be difficult to rip out and rewrite.
I wish that were not the case, as SmartSuite is really a good suite of applications. At least we have WordPerfect!
Yes, IBM has been a Microsoft-like bully and has used Microsoft-like tactics to lock in and cheat their customers in the past. They have also used superior marketing to outsell inferior technology at times. On the other hand, as someone else also pointed out, many wonderful technological innovations have been born in their laboratories. This, IMHO, is a very redeeming difference. I've drooled over many tasty blue goodies cranked out of Watson Labs, etc., even though I can rarely afford them.
Maybe IBM would now consider release specs for the
IBM Wireless LAN Entry PCMCIA cards so that a
Linux driver could be written. Or just release
annotated source code to the existing DOS/W95
drivers.
Like, what do they do with the LARGE sums they collect?
Spend it on beer? Mad Dog food? Ego boosts for "Linux Luminaries"
Lots of members, no published accounts. Hmmm, sounds pretty closed to me.
So, LI Bored Members, care to tell *US*, the Linux Community, what you do with OUR MONEY?
IBM is releasing another new version for OS/2, mainly because people have voiced difficulties over installing the large amounts of patches. They say it's a minor upgrade, but they also said that about OS/2 Warp 4.
/dev/null isn;t making it better.
Except for the fact that I have never gotten a kernel to boot properly and recognise the onboard SCSI on an Intellistation M-Pro, and they way they update their hardware without revising the model number can be a royal pain. Did anyone know that there are two revisions of the M-Pro with the same hardware specs, but total driver incompatibility.
:p
All the same, this is IBM software we are talking about, not their PC division. Welcome on board chaps.
Could I please have an 8 node RS6k SP2 with P2SC nodes to test a little SMP mod I want to work up??
Thought not.
ibm is teaming u-p with sequent(sp?) to offer a "new" version of unix. are they just pandering to the lastest flavor or are they serious? i have worked with them in the past aND THEY DON'T take chances anymore, they just bet on sure things. i hope their lotus divsion delivers notes on ilnux soon. all of my contacts there are for linux but nobody really takes linux that seroiusly, i do worry that they are just buying time unil their new version of unix comes out. oh well i guesss time will tell.
mm-hmm....I can hear it now:
"uh-oh, they got 1-2-3! Now they're only 10 years
behind us!"
You'd be amazed at how many people think that
MS Office 97/2000 is *IT*...so much so that they
would accept nothing less (or nothing else).
As others have pointed out, the IBM of the past is not the IBM of the present. Furthermore, the IBM of the past is not the IBM of the more distant past; they didn't get their market share and their trust by magic. They did good things before they were the monopolistic FUD spreaders that the world remembers them as. And they've done good things since then.
The moral of the story is that competition is good not only for customers, but for businesses. IBM did little of interest while they weren't forced to actively compete.
i *just* read about Object REXX For Linux..
search on software.ibm.com
I'm still waiting for IBM to release the MWave specs...
Search IBM and you'll find that REXX is ported to Linux. And, unlike the Windows version, it's free.
I'm with you though. I love REXX.
There was a petition running around asking IBM to port VisualAge to Linux. It didn't ask for a free or an open source port, it just asked for a fair priced alternative to Windows or OS/2. The last I heard there were around 800 signatures and the author hasn't submitted it to IBM yet. I lost the site but if you look in IBM's VisualAge support newsgroups you can find a reference to it there. I myself would pay a little extra for a Visual Age Linux port. VisualAge is one of only 3 applications that I use Windows for.
I wonder how hard it would really be to port VisualAge to Linux. They've already ported it to AIX & (I believe) OS/390 Open Edition Unix. Considering that OS/390 Open Edition doesn't even use an ASCII character set, I would imagine that they had to write the Unix version of Visual Age to be very platform independent (I can't imagine that they maintain totally separate code bases for the different versions).
If IBM ever does port it, we should ask how difficult the port was and what problems were encountered. It would be a good benchmark to see how difficult a Linux port is compared to other Un*x. If they encounter major problems, their learnings could help other Un*x vendors port to Linux more quickly. If the port is easy then it's a good testimonial to how standard of a Un*x Linux has become.
You know, I don't care whether or not IBM puts
time into DB2 or any other server-type software
under Linux.
I just want them to port their speech recognition
software!
I could get more excited about this news if I knew what Linux Internation did. I've never heard any news from them except joining announcements.
Well hell, then you don't get out too much, do you? While less people use OS/2 now, I know a lot of people who USED OS/2.
And you better hope OS/2 isn't dead, cause you can bet that unless you keep your money under your pillow, your bank is running OS/2. I don't even have to ask where you're from or which bank it is.
how many of you AIX bashers actually use it on a regular basis? I work with it all the time (we have a SP2 here at work) it's solid and never goes down. give me reasons that you don't like it.
Hey, Microsoft may own the brains of middle management; but some of the older guys still worship IBM. Maybe if some of the old geezers say
"Let's try IBM Linux", then that'll be a big opening for the rebel forces. The M$oft deathstar can be defeated!!!!
They could use (and contribute to) Winelib just like Corel. I guess since they've had access to MS code they'd need to be careful how they went about it, but I'm sure they could come up with untainted (from a legal standpoint) programmers.
:-)
I think for short term ports, winelib is the way to go. The long term solution is to mothball all that Win32 legacy code.
Has anyone looked at the LI grant page? hasn't been updated in years. I sent an email to the requesting info, but no response.
Has anyone got a grant?
Dude, I don't know what you're smokin', but I'd like to know where you get it -
must be crazy shit...
It's not going to die guys. It's currently
the 'business' Unix. And with big wigs standing
behind it.. hey, not too shaby...
Face it, though. Every Commercial Un*x has
some type of drawback.
1. They are closed (only consumers with $$$
get heard and are the ones that
dictate software changes/fixes)
2. Individual implementations of Un*x
varies from place to place. As far as
re-inventing the wheel...isn't that
what linux has done??? only better??
anyway, to you all bashers...
chill...
-Another AC
Plus, there's SMIT, LVM , HA/CMP, SP/2 and quite a few other things that Linux just doesn't have.
Until Linux gets those, it won't be useful for anything other than low-end type servers. Doubt Linux would be replacing all our H50's, R50's and S70's anytime soon (even longer for our SP/2's)
Those of you that think this is now the nail in AIX's head, get a clue. Not unless IBM ports all those tools over will we or, probably, many other AIX shops be interested in moving to Linux. It's just not there yet. Don't push it before it's ready.
-Niomosy
logging in from out of town...
I believe Open32 was possible only because a subset of the Win32 API is essentially the same as the OS/2 API. (Which makes sense because they were designed by the same folks.)
I guess one could imagine an offshoot of WINE that allows you to run OS/2 Apps as well as Win32 ones.
I _might_ pay for the WPS if ported to Linux. Only if it were more customizable though. Can't see this ever happening, however.
I always find it amusing when people say well we have to use MS Office because it has the latest features. Any useful features MS Office has are there cause MS waits for its competitors to develop first and then MS attempts to copy. For example 123 had mapping built in first. Excel still does not calculate or export correctly. I cannot believe the business that use that crap. Don't get me started on Word. Both Wordperfect and Wordpro are far superior to Word. Word still can't do line numbering correctly and is useless for large documents. And it UI stinks. I've always liked the frame based document model of Wordpro and its predeccessor AmiPro. It would be great if SmartSuite was ported to Linux while Lotus continues to keep the Warp version up to date.
In simplistic terms Open32 uses OS/2 calls to emulate Win32 calls. This obviously involved a lot of coding.
Why don't you see if they have sample code for the OS/2 driver posted here: http://service.boulder.ibm.com/ddk/ You could use this as a guide to developing the linux driver for this product.
They've already ported Object Rexx to Linux. You should find the download plus sample code and docs hanging off of:
http://www2.hursley.ibm.com/
If you go to IBM's redbook site you should be able to find a pdf on oo programming in object rexx. I will leave discovery of this site as an exercise for the reader.
Go grab yourself a copy of Partition Magic (www.powerquest.com). Works wonders. The only down side is, as far as it's concerned, linux fdisk mangles the partition table =/
Then make you opinions known to the GNOME developers. GNOME at least has most of the right underpinnings to do WPS things. There even appear to be some WPS-sympathizers there, though there are also Microsoft-chasers.
IBM was a 'bad mofo' not too long ago. Reverse the clock 15 years or so and they're the Microsoft of that time. The difference is that IBM, after being bitten by Microsoft, has learned how to be a (IMHO) truly good company. Things like helping out Apache and their constant advancement in hardware make the difference. The fact is that IBM does make good stuff nowadays, and they do help the computer industry. Maybe 15 years from now we'll be saying the same thing about Microsoft. Don't forget that the Scanning-tunneling electron microscope was invented by IBM's Zurich labs. Whatever they've done in the past, they've made up for it: I believe in IBM now.
to test Wine. Although, I can't remember actually booting into Windows for nearly a year now. Funny, I don't miss it at all. :)
Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
I welcome IBM's input and technical presence. IBM may have been one of the problems in the past but maybe they've changed - only time will tell. Better to have them as allies than as enemies.
IBM has shown us that they can play the game with style. They've worked with Apache and both are healthy, they've released Jikes as an Open Source project, they've ported DB2 and tools to Linux. IBM stands to gain much by participating in Linux and I feel that Linux can gain much by having the backing of IBM.
After all, with corporations competing based on applications and support instead of OS, they are sure to benefit and ultimately so will the consumer. What happened in the hardware world (the powerful competition) will then happen in the software world - then we will see advances in Computer Science like never before!
Didn't realize I was rambling on until I had already done it but... we need software innovation moving as fast or faster than hardware. Let's have it!
I feel that IBM's entry into LI will help this idea to fruition.
Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
Posted by hrearden:
So they told us at LotusPhere. But only the server, administration and development will have to be done from another machine. Unless someone WINE's the client...
I'll believe it when I see Tivoli:
;)
[a] directly support Linux; and
[b] go OpenSource
Currently amassing my fortunes via architecting Distributed Systems Management for Fortune 100 companies, I'm constantly at the Management Tools portion of IT industry. Most amazing is how utterly intransigent these vendors are with responding to the needs of their customers. Sencondly, so many became millionaires selling this stuff; but, now the budding millionaires are those who take a hand in architecting, deploying and simply making it do something to address ROI concerns.
As long as this train keeps rolling, I guess I'll be paying the bills. But, it sure would be nice to run this stuff in my office }:-
Best Regards, mds
I hope this means the death of AIX.
Not until they port SMIT and LVM over.
"Quick, I need a disk space fix! AAHHHHH! LVM."
We all know the call to arms that got the Linux
.plan and asked to be fingerd. :).
ball roleing, but have you all read this set of
postings in the erly days of Linux ?
I.e. Linus had a
( Get your mind out of the gutter AC
It's all here
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
Linux International's financial and organizational
support were instrumental in getting the Atlanta
Linux Showcase off the ground. ALS was, as of this
past fall, the largest Linux show ever. To my mind,
that is a hell of a good use of their resources.
It took a lot of guts for MadDog et al. to extend
the resources which they did to the ALE users' group,
but they did it. We thank them for it.
* Free BEER. (not speech)
* A month's worth of brown paper bags for Linus.
* Flea collars for John "Mad Dog" Hall.
* RMS's bar tab.
Having IBM's name and marketing pushing systems running GNU-Linux, Apache and other Free Software will propel open source into the mainstream.
I always said Linux could be a contender. j.b.
ever mix up water and oil.. yeah exactly loves..
Victoria Palmer - I brake for unix.boys, Windows just breaks. - http://www.escape.com/~juliet
Your money?
Have you made cash contributions to Linux International? Have you applied for a grant from LI and been turned down? Have you been taxed by LI, forced to divert funds to that organization that you would have otherwise spent on yourself?
The information on www.li.org states that Linux International is a non-profit organization which charges modest annual membership fees, and uses those revenues to print press kits, attend trade shows, and sponsor development grants.
Just what part of the activies of Linux International do you take issue with?
Compaq post-dates the introduction of the IBM PC. In fact, Compaq created the first PC clone, which was a luggable. I first saw it at the West Coast Computer Faire in San Francisco. Had I known at the time what its introduction foretold, I probably would have shot myself right there.
What a depressing conversation that was, talking with the Compaq flak:
"So, what does your new machine do?"
"It's a PC clone."
"Yeah, but what does it do?"
"It does everything an IBM PC will do."
"Yeah, but what else does it do?"
"Nothing. It's a PC clone."
"...You mean, this thing doesn't do anything new?"
"No."
"It's not faster?"
"No."
"It doesn't have better graphics?"
"No."
"Then why did you bother?"
"You don't understand. It's a PC clone..."
And thus began the industry's long, slow downward slide...
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
I think it's ideal that IBM is moving towards Linux support. So far, I've installed Linux on a couple IBM boxen, and I've had to do virtually no configuration to get them to work out of the box. On my Thinkpad, I installed RedHat, and I didn't have to configure a thing. Sound, PCMCIA, IBM PCMCIA NIC+modem, video; all were detected and ran perfectly "out of the box." And servicing IBM desktop and server machines is easy too. Screwless cases, wide spaces inside, etc. make it a breeze to do hardware upgrades. It's just robust. I guess it just comes from using good, solid standard parts. Hell, my IBM XT keyboard from 15 years ago still works perfectly.
Kudos IBM.
Let's welcome the Super Smurf with open arms!
My enemy's enemy is my friend.
If they quit selling MS crap, it would make a
difference, and they are the most likely to swear
off. Besides, it's the smartest move they've made
in years. Supporting Linux moved them from a 2 to
a 9 in my book.
it really seems to me that Linux will make it as a (the?) mainstream OS.
Over the past few years, I've watched low end Unix applications turned over to NT boxes and worried that I'd have to spend the next 25 years of my career managing MS-SQL Server on NT. Then Linux came along. I hoped and wished for it to be successful, for purely selfish reasons of course. But, I refused to get my hopes up too high given the history of OS/2, Netscape/Java, and all the other would-be contenders.
It didn't strike me until the other day when Loki announce the Civ port that Linux may well be unstoppable. Geeks love Linux, geeks love games, games on Linux will sell disproportionately to the user base. In a couple of years, teenage boys everywhere will be installing Linux for the games.
Now, every new piece of news is just another nail in the coffin. Welcome aboard IBM!
That sounds perverted.
ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
IBM also has an ADSM (network-based backup)
client for Linux. I'm using it to back up
my office machine. They're claiming that it's
unsupported, but it works very well. Most likely
nervousness on their part.
Every time I read that IBM does something having to do with Linux or any other product I like, I get a queasy feeling in my stomach which I can't quite explain. And then I remember . . .
It was many years ago and I worked in a small retail shop which sold and serviced portable microcomputers -- that's what they were called back then, microcomputers -- and the software that was usually bundled with them, Dbase, Wordstar, Lotus123 or SuperCalc. We specialized in "luggables", Compaq, Kaypro, Osborne. And they all used C/PM as their OS.
Then one day we got this new fangled thingy in the shop. It was by IBM. It had a 10MB hard drive. 10MB?! Geez, what the heck would anyone every need 10MB for? It had no software written for it as this IBM microcomputer (soon to be known as "personal computer") had as its OS this thing called DOS. Who the heck had ever heard of DOS, MS or otherwise? Geez, the only thing you could run on it was King's Quest.
But, this was IBM, ole Big Blue. They had name recognition. They knew how to market. Heck, they even passed on their expertise in marketing to the little upstart who had provided them with an OS for their little jaunt into the microcompter world. And that was how IBM treated those of us who had to deal with their choice of OS and their systems over the years. Those of you who have ever had problems with Microsoft tech support should know that it is an IBM model of tech support. Microsoft learned their lesson from IBM well, indeed.
Years later the little Microsoft upstart bit the IBM hand that had fed him so much market share and name recognition over the years. So eventually, IBM paid the piper for their ways. But not before leaving us with the IBM/Microsoft legacy of poor and expensive tech support, total disregard for quality product in favor of market share and profit, and marketing techniques which are questionable at best.
Oh yeah, now I remember why IBM involvement makes me queasy.
Not related to
r ies/Netfinity+7000+M10
They rock. Compared to Compaq they are much stronger and more reliable. They can get expensive, but IBM's rock solid support offsets that for me. We use them to run SCO UNIX, but I'm dying for the chance to try Linux 2.2 on a 7000 M10 fully decked out. (4 450 Xeon PII/ 8GB RAM/TB of RAID 5) The way my company is pumping the things out, it should not take long.
The best part: _Everything_ is in stealth black. (Even got a deal with APC for black UPSes.)
Here a link. Check em out.
http://www5.pc.ibm.com/us/products.nsf/$wwwovse
Anyone out there with any Linux experence with them?
I think there is a wc that emulates the look and feel of wps .. though I don't understand why anyone would like that.
I personally thought it was not that great of a wm when I was using OS/2 (Long looooooong ago).
--sidster
Play lotto? Try http://www.alottofun.com/
I like VA for Java and would love to see it on Linux. A move like this would hopefully help move other IDEs to Linux as well. However, I am currently happily using CodeForge and enjoy how it is coming along. Yes, I also use Emacs but have yet to master VI.
I say IBM should port REXX and Pipelines to Linux. You folks think piping commands in sh/csh/bash/tcsh is fun, try juggling multiple pipelines, selective fanin/fanout with labeled streams, all more powerful than the 'tee' command. One can write a powerful script much like Perl with one pipe.
Gleepy the Hen. More intelligent than the average hen.
This is the IBM page where you can
find out all about it:
http://www.software.ibm.com/data/db2/linux
I *converted* to Linux about a month ago, or a month and a half, I don't remember. I used to run Win95. I have to say, really, scrap Windows, embrace the Penguin completely. Sound good? Great! Haf fun. :)
"It's here, but no one wants it." - The Sugar Speaker
Where is this petition anyway. I'd like to sign
too. By email of course.