Slashdot Mirror
ESR chapter of "Open Sources" online
Paul Crowley writes "The table of
contents for "Open
Sources" , O'Reilly's book for the lay reader from Slashdot's
interesting-ideas department, is now available and the book itself
should be coming out later this
month; I've just now received mail warning me of a copy coming my way
sometime this week. One chapter is already available online: Eric S
Raymond's A
brief history of Hackerdom . So you can all start flaming
his attention-seeking ways again now, especially since on a related
note he's also
turned up on Slashdot's favourite news source, BBC News."
I just got a copy of Open Sources as well- Chris DiBona mentioned both
me & Slashdot in his intro. I've read the ESR and RMS sections already- both
were great.
A full fledged review of the book will be here whenever I
have time to finish reading it.
the title of appendix a (see subject) is interesting. anyone know the quick dirty summury of the issue (oposed to esr so i won't be buying the book, otherwise probably would - looks interesting).
Who are these people?
1 Chris DiBona
2 Sam Ockman
3 Mark Stone
Chapter 11: The Open Source Definition
by Bruce Perens
Appendix B: The Open Source Definition, Version 1.0
(presumably by ESR)
I wonder `diff chap11 appdxB` will reveal anything....
Yep, I'm sure that's it...
:)
Tannenbaum, academic and author of Minix, telling Linus that he'd fail his OS class for designing a monolithic kernel in the 90's!
I had heard (and possinly read, I can't remember the source) That Sun came from Stanford, not Berkeley. Is ESR Incorrect in saying it came from Berkeley?
It might be worthy to point out that those "other difficult parts of a Unix-like operating system)" form the basis of Linux (instead of just "In 1991 he began developing a free Unix kernel for 386 machines using the Free Software Foundation's toolkit."
The statment "To the amazement of almost everyone, this worked quite well" is just wrong. This was the dominant argument for free software; anyone can make changes, and add needed features, so it works better. I can pull up FSF documents (not to mention my own writings) stating this would work that preceed any mature versions of the Linux kernel (mine written before I had even heard of Linux).
Eric didn't invent what he calls "the bazaar model." It's just that Linus implememented it a bit better than the FSF (primarily because of his personality, and because of the popularization of the Internet).
- pmitros
Seeing as this is a book for, about and for the most part, by members of the open source / free software comunity, I wonder if we will see this document released with the ability to freely redistribute and modify it. Especially considering RMS's contribution to it.
I believe O'Reilly let each author license their chapter however they want. So, for example, RMS's chapter of his book is GPL'd. (So is Bruce Perens's, IIRC -- I don't know about any of the other authors.)
Chris DiBona works for VA Research and Sam
Ockman owns Penguin computing. They both are
officers of the SVLUG (Silicon Valley Linux
Users Group) and have among other things headed
up the wild publicity events like "Launch
Windows 98 (on a rocket!) day" and crashing of
the Microsoft party.
I think one of the founders can from Berkeley and
the other two(?) can from Stanford.
. . . not to mention that o'reilly generally plows a lot of profits back into free software.
as publishers go, o'reilly is pretty righteous. it may be only because their core audience is free software people who'll get pissed off if they don't play nice, but then again does it really matter? i dunno. they've been good fellas so far. my gut feeling is that tim o'reilly is an okay guy in addition to wanting to get rich (and succeeding, AFAIK).
Sun used Bill Joy's expertise to develop a Unix that was initially extremely BSDish.
It's yet another interesting and productive collaboration between Berkeley and Stanford people, however much they may profess to hate each other.
RMS GPL'd his chapter of the book...does that ;-)
mean I can modify it a little to suit my
opinions?
What the world doesn't understand is that small children are fundamentally sexual beings just like the rest of us. They should participate in sex with their friends and family. Elementary school is an especially appropriate place for sex, since the children can practice with their classmates while receiving instruction from their teachers. Sex acts should be performed without discrimination of course -- for example, the boys could take the janitor's penis into their mouths or the girls could massage the school nurse's breasts. Anal sex is an especially valuable educational experiance, though nothing should be excluded of course.
And you call yourself a geek.
Not only is he as pivotal a person in the free software movement as ESR or RMS, but he is also responsible for a good part of the financial stability of Slashdot through the Penguin Computing banner ads.
Not to mention he is the life of the party, wherever he goes.
I want to have Sam Ockman's love child!
For that matter, I've heard a lot of people claim that one of the rewards of OSS is that the programmer becomes respected and famous. Perhaps the same rewards can come from being an OSS evangelist?
Geez, guys, Bruce is an OSS PR dude who can spell. We need more of those guys.
You're just jealous because you don't have a chapter online. :)
Eric Raymond's chapter is interesting, but there is a certain amount of political obfuscation, in that it seems to suggest some sort of `sociological' revolution was behind the success of OSs based on the Linux kernel, as compared to either the *BSDs or GNU (the latter supposedly being examples of a `cathedral' approach to software development).
I might have a bit more respect for the author if he had mentioned the AT&T/USL lawsuit which effectively blocked distribution of the BSD NET/2 offshoots (incuding 386BSD, FreeBSD 1.0, etc) in the early 90s, or the fact that the HURD is a far more complex project than a simple replacement for the monolithic UNIX kernel. There's also the perpetuation of the incorrect belief that Linux is equivalent to UNIX, ignoring all the userland code in UNIX (by far the larger portion), which is supplied in Linux-based OSs by tools from GNU, BSD, etc.
All things considered, I suppose it's a reasonably good introduction to the history of UNIX, but should be taken with a grain of salt.
...and put up high school pictures of Sam Ockman.
He was quite the jock, you know. Slept with all the popular girls. This whole "geek thing" is just a fascade. He is using it to sound more intellectual to sell more books.
I know the real Sam. The real Sam earned the nickname "Kegman" and with a capital K. He's got more notches on his bedpost than a Beverly Hills hooker.
Then there was the Big Game. Sam was carried out of the stadium on the shoulders of the varsity football team.
What he won't tell you is that a Stanford scout was at that game and he went through Stanford on a football scholarship.
Where he went on to be a frat boy and Big Man On Campus.
You can't fool me, Sam Ockman. I was there. I know everything. You were popular and you think you can fool all of these people into thinking you are one of them.
Shame. Shame on you, Sam Ockman.
...
It surprises me to no end that the Anonymous Cowards go on and on worshipping at the altar of ESR, RMS, or Linus Torvalds. One of the greater yet silent contributors to the free software movement, Sam Ockman, has gone largely unnoticed. Now that Sam has come out of his shell and gotten over his phobia of talking to strange people, this movement should kick into high gear with him emerging as our new Glorius Leader. Long live Sam Ockman!
hah ha
--mtngrown
You merely made an application for a certification mark. The application for it is not yet published for opposition. When it is, and when the USP&TO says that the application for a certification mark is registered, THEN it may be, if it passes the opposition phase, and not until. You did not transfer a registered ANYTHING to ERS, but merely, at most, an application. This fact is not noted in the application as shown at the USP&TO. What part of this do you not understand and why will you not come clean about this?
hehe
- Steve Tobain
Where will I be able to download an "open" copy of this book?
I would like to make additions and suggestions and send them to the publisher for consideration and repost the text on my web site.
Thanks.
More Marxist crap. Be careful when reading a text when there is no sort of balanced view taken. Nothing is all good or all bad. Certainly not open source.
Why does ESR need to continually make up stuff about the FreeBSD? FreeBSD is more bazarr-modeled than Linux is. I don't know enought about Net and Open to comment, but:
anon-cvs: hmmm... Linux doesn't have it.
core TEAM: hmmm... Linux is what, 2 people?
committers: hmmm... 2 people, again?
Now why is FreeBSD similar to the Cathedral-mode of development, again?
Yeah, nice disclaimer, Mr. Raymond. "[A]ll the other difficult parts of a Unix-like operating system" make up a hell of a lot more code (and hard work) than a kernel. What a lame and unfair way to trivialize the GNU project.
And, by the way, the HURD is not a "Unix kernel." And that, in fact, is one of the reasons it's taking so long. It's a lot harder to design a new OS than it is to implement an old one.
Perhaps HURD was stalled. But a lot of other stuff got done. Like tools I have used nearly every working day for the last ten years.
All the legal wrangling really makes me wonder "who the hell are these people?" Where were they in 1990 or therabouts? And why do they feel empowered to turn this into their own empire?
I like LINUX, and I use it now. I'm glad it's here. So don't read this as a slam at LINUX. But it is such a shame to see all the cooperation and all contributed work get flushed just to stoke the egos of a few people who crave attention.
a:You seem to be hung up anonymity, and how it affects credibility. b: You seem to be hung up on personally defending yourself from these "Anonymous Cowards". Hmmm. Why 'b' if 'a'?
Personally telling everyone who flames you that you don't care, seems to indicate that you feel otherwise. Devaluing comments because the poster is anonymous is fairly disingeous. Wouldn't it be better to discredit them, because of the actual lack of content? Or do you LIKE the fact that you appear to have the mentality of a 15-year old?
"Proofreading Is Passe"
Sadly, I'm not surprised. :`(
Your justification for lying is to 1) pretend someone is calling you names, 2) refuse to explain or defend your behavior, 3) ignore the issue raised and 4) insist that someone else studying the law will rectify your misrepresentation.
Yeah... that's about what we all expected.
http://www.dibona.com/
>2 Sam Ockman
http://www.penguincomputing.com/
>3 Mark Stone
http://shell.nanospace.com/~markst/
All members of the infamous...
Silicon Valley Linux User Group
Note I'm not criticising, just pointing it out.
---
---
Seeing as this is a book for, about and for the most part, by members of the open source / free software comunity, I wonder if we will see this document released with the ability to freely redistribute and modify it. Especially considering RMS's contribution to it.
If he is "attention-seeking", I'm sure it's only an outgrowth of both his enthusiasm over the ideas involved, and an understanding of the nature of competing for mindshare. The fact that the term "open source" has become standard terminology is due to his hard work on this front. This is a gent who knows what's up and although it seems a part of both the /. and the hacker communities to bash what's hot, this is one case where we should take a step back and avoid biting the hand that's feeding the open source frenzy.
See subject.
I'd be more than glad to take the burden of moderator-power...
Posted by The ULTIMATE Crippler:
Yeah but he banged Chelsea Clinton in her freshman year. That's gotta count for something.
Posted by Jim Borynec:
When reading about the history of the
internet/unix I'm always a little annoyed that
nobody seems to appreciate the importance
of usenet news. This early groupware program,
coupled with the *large* uucp network (certainly
when compared to arpanet) was fundamental
to today's online culture.
In particular, it "unified" various discussion
forums (see sci.space.* for a living example).
It also fostered a real culture of cooperation.
This isn't about the history of programming, though; whatever lovely things Babbage and Pascal may have done, they weren't part of an overtly code-sharing hacker culture (even though they were sort of nerdy).
This post does raise an interesting point, though; throughout known history, deep thinkers -- always a nerdy minority in any culture, since somebody always has to harvest the food -- have tended to group together and argue. Think about the Greek philosophers, the Italian cities of the Renaissance, the Enlightenment, and so on. Imagine if superhacker Leonardo da Vinci had had the Internet....
And then, of course, we've always had something like the trial of Socrates, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Federal Government....
Craig
Thanks for the nice words!
Co-Editor, Open Sources
Open Source Program Manager, Google, Inc.
This is the real Sam Ockman
--
--
I noticed
It's getting about time to leave everywhere
Maybe, but I'll bet Bruce knows how to set up DNS.
--
--
I noticed
It's getting about time to leave everywhere
Sam Ockman is the true king of DNS administration, too!
--
--
I noticed
It's getting about time to leave everywhere
How can one possibly write a paper on the history of computing/programming and make absolutely no mention of Iowa State University where the first electronic digital computer was invented?
:)
:)
But then Mauchly and Eckert were working in the great Open Source tradition of taking Atanasoff's work, building upon it, and getting all the credit.
No mention of Hollerith, or Babbage either. And what about Blaise Pascal and...
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
Read the thing and judge. It's here.
Bruce Perens.
Detractors will moan, but they'll have to think a while to find a reason. Your chapter covers things nicely, like a tight, cleverly coded program. Good reading.
*****************
So who's working on the new open source ITS system/kernel? A real-live Linux-killer fer shure!
;)
**>>BELCH
Is that like getting one .c file with your open source application?
Hmmmm, sounds a lot like Free Beer to me.
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
Cool. Can someone post a review? Does it have anything we don't know? Anything NEW ?
--
It might be worthy to point out that those "other difficult parts of a Unix-like operating system)" form the basis of Linux.
That's probably why he specifies that they are difficult parts of the OS.
instead of just "In 1991 he began developing a free Unix kernel for 386 machines using the Free Software Foundation's toolkit."
So I write a word processor in Borland Pascal (not that I would) and it's the "Borland Word Processor," right? I mean, after all - the compiler is the hardest part. Anyone could write a word processor (except, of course, the FSF couldn't write a kernel).
now that you've got your head out of your ass I'll continue.
It wasn't a paper on history of computing/programming. It wasn't even a history on hacking. It was a BRIEF history on hacking.
Pascal does not fit into the definition of 'hacker'. He was basically a mathematician who wanted to be an engineer. But don't forget Lady Lovelace. She was the first programmer.... but still she was not a hacker... more of a scientist mathematician type.
Therefore, his BRIEF history of HACKING still holds.
Suddenly, the hairy finger of a familiar monkey tapped me on the shoulder. It was time.--G. T.
Chris Dibona is one of the homeys in charge of the
Silicon Valley Linux User Group. He's the only one I know by name *and* face. I can vouch for him being a cool guy (with social skills!).
Only know the other two by name
Sam Ockman is involved in one way or another with
the SVLUG as well.
Andy Bechtolsheim was in the EE PhD program at Stanford when he built the Sun 1 (68k, ethernet, VME bus (I think)). He was the "hardware guy".
Vinod Khosla and Scott McNealy were in the business school.
Bill Joy was at Berkeley, and as others have alluded, was the (first) "software guy".
I sent a correction to ESR, he said it may or may not make it into the book.
A couple of efforts predate Linux and other widely acclaimed "free" or "open source" software projects. The earliest I'm aware of is RBBS, which started in 1983 and is still nominally active, although there is little development apparently going on now. The current release level is *18*. The RBBS license is more similar to the *BSD than to the GPL, but I think that's a minor point given the antiquity :) of the project. It was coordinated from the very beginning across a series of PC BBSes from virtually the time the IBM PC escaped from Don Estridge's labs and multipled like rabbits. It has always been free and always has had a more bazaar than cathedral approach to development.
The other notable project of yore was info-zip (which still continues, mostly in maintenance mode). Jean-Loup Gailly and a bunch of others put together a reconstructed version of PKZip (with Phil Katz' support) which makes zip and unzip now the *second* most widely available program in terms of number of platforms supported (that one that puts "Hello world" on the screen is #1). Again, info-zip pioneered the development of free software with literally an international group of developers corresponding and co-developing the code.
I first joined the info-zip mailing list in 1990, I think; along with the RISKS-L version of comp.risks those were the first net mailing lists I ever subscribed to.
phred@sunlight.portland.or.us
--------
Bill Gates Is My Evil Twin.