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Source for N64 Emulator Released (sort of)
An anonymous reader pointed us a a wired news article where you can
read that the authors of the UltraHLE N64 emulator has
had its
source code
released. The article talks about Nintendo
considering Legal Action against the authors of the emulator,
as well as the Sony/Connectix suit and the fact that another
company is working on a Playstation emulator for windows.
Update: 02/12 03:51 by CT : My bad. The source code wasn't actually released by
the authors- the code is a disasembled bit posted by someone
else. It doesn't compile. Will the real UltraHLE authors
take the hint? Update: 02/13 03:04 by S : The code has been removed, although
anyone could make it again with REC.
In the mean time, Dextrose
has
an UltraHLE-on-Linux Howto which reveals that the combination
of UltraHLE-Wine-Linux is faster than the original UltraHLE-Win98:
with Zelda running at 21.3 fps under Linux versus 19.6 under Win98.
Not only that, but it isn't the actual source. This is just some guy who reverse-engineered the compiled binary, and released it.
/. articles from to days ago.. I'm too lazy to post a link here, heh)
(Check out the
This is the same 'source code released by authors' article from a few days ago.
The source code was not released by the authors. Someone disassembled it from the binary. It won't even compile. And Nintendo can blow it out its collective arse. Since the authors did not make any profit from it and the only "security chip" they circumvented was the territory code that causes Jap games not to play on a US N64s and vice versa(something the retail product Gameshark also does), Nintendo absolutely has no case. It's all a scare tactic, and as usual Wired has no clue.
I see that this posting meets with the usual innaccurate and abismally low standards here. In the future, would it be possible to at least read the article in question BEFORE posting about it? If this is possible who knows what else could be done. Maybe someday we might even see proper English and (gasp) article commentary that makes sense! We can only hope.
When this article was released incorrectly the first time, a bunch of people were all fired up to port it to Linux..
The authors of UltraHLE haven't released there code, so I assume they do not want to be Open Source.. I think its wrong for Gossi to try and force OpenSource on authors who chose not to be.
If you want to help N64 Emulation help TrueReality.. Its Open Source and for Linux, Win, and Mac. Sure it doesn't play Zelda, but as a side note, I recently added some textured rectangle support to it and it displays the Mortal Kombat Trilogy Title Page.
URL: http://www.snes9x.com/n64emulators/
...you are justifying my Junkbuster proxy!!! :(
Nintendo screwed up. Now its going to have to face an even larger scene. Its to late now!
I can understand a db error losing records. But duplicating with modifications?
0 943207.shtml 1 720223.shtml
http://cachedot.slashdot.org/articles/99/02/12/
http://cachedot.slashdot.org/articles/99/02/10/
First, do you know what the word "reputation" means? You can look it up, but as a hint: when you start to lose it, you can rarely get it back.
After you've absorbed that, lookup "editorial integrity" not to mention "editorial accuracy".
If any of these items confuse you, go look at lwn.net.
Nintendo and Sony will most likely sue the authors of the emulators. At most all they could win is an injunction against the authors for distribution as the authors have not profited (made money) from the emulators.
Nintento and Sony - listen up. Obviously, people want to play your games on hardware other than what you are supplying. Sell your own Playstation and N64 emulator which will run on the PC.
Sony has a nice advantage because it's games are on CD. It can make code for the PC which will allow Playstation disks to play. Nintendo still uses cartidges in which it can use to make additional monies.
Sony move to take over the gaming market w/ the emulator. You could possibly drive Nintendo out of business for good or bad.
Oh, fuck you.
Lame ass spelling troll. It's obvious that my "w" key didn't register, and if you're too shallow to see that, then it's not my problem.
Unfortunately, not all of us can afford to buy top of the line woodgrained custom built $300 keyboards like you can, oh mighty master of the words. We actually have to live and use what we happen to come by.
Oh, and since we're using spelling flames here, you forgot to capitalize "dork". Wouldn't want any spelling errors yourself, now would we? hmm?
Hudson, sir. HE's Hicks.
I absolutely challenge you on that. Whose standards has Rob agreed to uphold? What defination of accuracy do you expect him to embrace? I think critiques of slashdot are a good thing, but so many posters are brutal and juvenile.
If Rob posts something that is somehow construed as "wrong", just point out your objection. Why flame and attack and just try to hurt?
Some of you people need to grow up ...
TheOrb40
(this post will not flame taco) isnt it weird that some guy does five minutes of work, releases some crappy obfuscated c code and gets mentioned in wired, the register, etc.? man must be a slow week.
If you want to help out TrueReality, someone needs to finish the COP0 paging support. This is the major stumbling block for Mario64 and GoldenEye007. That, and fix VMULF.
Anyway, I agree, a true open source project would be much preferable to more UltraHLE hacks.
He spelled it right, dork.
Or is it "Hee spelt tit rite, daurk?"
It's funny that Nintendo and Sony seem so concerned about people bypassing the territorial lockout, when the US Supreme Court said in a unanimous decision last year that copyright law does not prohibit reselling in other markets.
So what if Wired mistakenly thinks this Gossi guy is a real programmer, how exactly is /. wrong in pointing to the Wired article in question?
/. screw up, its a Wired screw up.
Its not a
I do think this Gossi guy is a jackass, given that I was able to download, unzip and run a decompiler named rec once and get the EXACT code gosi had minus the comment at the begining which says it was generated by rec. Its kinda pathetic that he thinks someone is going to actually read and rewrite that code in any kind of high level language. He'd be better off dissassembling it or just offering the executable (which incidently he does on his page.)
oh well.
Maybe you could provide us with a definition of "source code" that covers uncompilable, unreadable, semi-disassembled text?
Proper English ... would that include correct
spelling, such as "abismally"? [sic]
-thomas
---
"Turn thy mirror inward."
And as usual, slashdot is on rerun.
and get rid of that "editorial forgetfulness".
This is not the first duplicate story. It's been happening for months now and lately it has clearly been getting worse and worse. This week, at least three stories were reposts.
No I think it was four.. with two of them being removed within the hour.
Uh, 'dork'..
to: I want to go to the shop.
two: I can see two birds over there..
too: That's way too much dude.
I can understand (slightly) people getting confused between 'to' and 'too' - but 'too' and 'two'?
Geez.
--Rob
Nintendo's big complaint against UltraHLE is that it's supposedly being used to copy games (HINT: you need a cart reader to copy carts...didn't think that UltraHLE did this...)
Now, I don't live in some hippy-dippy world where I think everyone's being honest. I know that people *will* use this technology to play copied (READ: ILLEGAL) games with pirated ROMS. But, if I own an N64 and carts, it's *still* illegal to copy the cart? I was under the impression that the game on the cart was *software.* I'm legally entitled to make backup copies...right?
> Wired has no clue.
:)
No comment
GossiTheDog
Right.
Read the Press Release (I can't believe I had to write a press release about this) at:
http://www.udders.freeserve.co.uk/emu.html
GossiTheDog
Your post was rendered moronic by your use of the word steal in it. In no way is stealing anything required to use an emulator; in fact, I don't know of much you could steal that would be useful in running an emulator.
Hints for the clueless: it's perfectly legal to copy something you already own a copy of to a different storage format, if one copy is only used as an archival copy, or if you destroy the other. Moreover, illegal copying is NOT stealing, under US law or morally. Get a clue, ya whining IP-lover.
- RF (dfelker@cnu.edu)
From my private mirror, of course. What do you think I was doing sitting in efnet #emu for 3 or 4 days after it got pulled? Why, /msg'ing everyone who asked where to find ultrahle with the url, after the lame fascist pro-big-business-false-ip-claims chanops kb'd 'em! :)
It's still up, if you want it, although I don't like to publicly post the url. Send me an email if you really want to get it (or just guess the url), or find someone else's public mirror. Hmm, Dave's Classics might still have it even...
- RF (dfelker@cnu.edu)
"...the only use for UltraHLE IS illegal..."
What about for developing? Last I checked, that's perfectly legal.
I think Rob redid posting so they are in reverse chronological order. I predict the net result of this will be plenty of "First" posts, as all these kids will want their post to be at the top...
Okay, I'm getting tired of all the Anonymous Cowards flaming Rob for posting a second article on this subject. Perhaps it's only one of you, I don't know..
Anyway, the Wired reporter was a bit screwed up too, saying of the source, "GossiTheDog's UltraHLE code is a conversion of the original C++ code. It is not complete and fails to compile, he explained on his Web site."
This, as we've all learned from the previous posting about the so-called "source", is untrue. It's actually de-compiled code that likely looks ugly, and isn't much easier to look at than grabbing a hex editor to read the binaries of UltraHLE.
Now, back to the ACs.. I'm really fucking tired of all the flames you guys put up, and I also hate the stupid "First!" comments everywhere, especially when they end up 10 comments down the page!
Get a life, or go somewhere else.
OOOoo... that's REEEAL original.. never heard that one before..
WARNING: Copying of any Nintendo game is illegal and is strictly prohibited by domestic and international copyright laws. "Back-up" or "archival" copies are not authorized and are not necessary to protect your software. Violators will be prosecuted.
I don't get why the UltraHLE authors don't open source this thing. It would surely help out a lot in their upcoming trial.. unless they have something to hide...
Posted by OGL:
Would you PLEASE stop posting these dumb stories about some idiot with a decompiler? This is not source code. Source code is, by definition, the SOURCE of a binary. This is some crap that is unreadable and uncompilable. Don't you people check your stories at all before posting them? The person who submitted this should be ashamed too.
-W.W.
Posted by Jeremy Witt:
Ok.... Wrong Facts, Indirection, Incompletly researched topic... Those are the things that I can immediately associate with this post..
A)
The code isn't from the original Authors.
(At least from what I can tell)
B)
It's not the original Source (It is a conversion of the ASM code that was acquired by running a dissassembler on the Binary)
C)
This is none other than a Reference to the
same story that was on slashdot two days ago..
(dextrose.com ring a bell?)
D)
Spreading unreasearched information like "this is Source Code from the original Authors" is flippantly careless, and quit possibly slanderous. These guys seem to be in a bit of trouble (Which could be quite compounded if they really WERE employees of Nintendo at one time as rumor has it).
JWitt
Posted by OGL:
/. is almost as abysmal as its editorial content. Although on second thought this article may serve the purpose of making fun of wired online, so perhaps it's not all bad.
ROTFL...
You're completely right of course, I've never coded a single line in my entire life! NOT!
The quality of the posts on
-W.W.
But what are guns supposed to be used for if not killing other people?
Please alter my pants as fashion dictates.
UltraHLE source is out? Lemmesee... ::looks at the site:: No? Drats.
Just for a second I had a feeling that there *was* hope. Nah. Oh well, maybe in the future... False hope is a bad thing, please read the article first.
why not add hardware specs that would allow a cartridge to be connected to a parallel port or something. this would "encourage" people to buy the cartridges and get the ultrahle guys off the hook, no?
"The lie, Mr. Mulder, is most convincingly hidden between two truths."
--
And Justice for None
I think this "source release" is great -- it isn't like you can download a binary anymore, so anything that keeps UltraHLE in circulation is a good thing. Yes, it might have been made by a total idiot in five minutes, but it's set off a media bombshell, added to the frezny around the emulator scene and might pressure the real authors to release the code. Now it's time to rise up and smash the state!
Just wondering, is this the sort of thing the ACLU would defend? You know, b/c of freedom of speech and stuff. If they did, this could actually turn out moderately advantageous for the emulation community.
It seems that one issue that would make this problem go away would be a pci "cartrage" card... Occuping a 5 1/4" bay, the cartrage reader would provide an interface for UltraHLE to run roms from, and it would not be circumventing anything. The PCI bus should be fast enough to accomidate the requests from the emulator, and Nintendo wouldn't be able to use pirating as an inapropriate use of the emulator... with this cartrage bay, you could run cartrages without having to bypass any security chips, and Nin. wouldn't have a leg to stand on... For example, On PSZ emu side of the house, Bleem is comming out soon which _WILL NOT_ play copied games, it will only play the originals. Thus the authors of Bleem won't have to worry about developers suing. I know that there are /. readers out there with the know how, obviously the edge connector for the cartrages has been mapped (should be available somewhere), and changing the location that the emu looks from physical ram to a card based memory address shouldn't be that hard... :/ I won't even patent my idea :) so long as you mention that the device was inspired by me... :) get to soldering!!!
Time flies like an arrow;
Time flies like an arrow;
Fruit flies like a bananna
Actually something as controversial as a currnet game system emulator that would draw lawsuits or skirt on the edge of the lawshould be released as full source code and anonomously. the UltraHLE or whatever they call it, authors should have put it out there with no trace to who the heck they are. that way the big corps cant sue anyone. And if the authors werent lying on their reasons for writing it then why didnt they ever release the code? If it was for a learning expierience then teach the people. If you say, "I did this to learn, but I aint gonna let you learn it" credibility drops to the floor. Besides, has anyone even ran this thing? did it even work?
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
This is the same "GossiTheDog" disassemble that was already posted here. It's not the actual source code from the authors.
When I posted my article it was the fourth. However, all the subsequent posts are showing up at the top and pushing it down. Originally the "first" poster really was first. The order of the first level responses does not appear to go in chronological order anymore, at least with this story.
Dude, that's about the worst solution. If people always "went somewhere else" whenever something was wrong, nothing would ever become fixed, and (CLICHE ALERT) Hitlers would rule the world. If we complain enough, perhaps Slashdot will actually become a higher-quality publication. I don't think anyone would complain if Slashdot editors actually a) Verified links and b) Verified that the story hadn't already been put up in the past few days.
This article was already posted, it was wrong then and it's wrong now. First off the authors had nothing to do with it. All that happened is some guy named GossiTheDog ran the program through a decompiler and spent about 5 minutes working on it. Also, he must have used a really crappy decompiler since it can't even recompile the code. With a decent recompiler you should at the very least been able to compile the code. Not to mention that given the authors attitude about the program being used to pirate n64 games they will most-likely never release the source code. And the legal troubles that everyone is talking about are unfounded. Nintendo said that they have not ruled out the possibility of suing the two people who wrote it. But they also have yet to make any formal contact with the two people who wrote the emulator. It really pains me to see wired news report this story, it puts them at the level of zdnet IMHO.
-matt
The article (and CmdrTaco's synopsis) clearly stated that there was more info in it than just the UltraHLE source story.
It is interesting that the people who complain are also the ones who hide behind a shroud. I would suggest in the future that to be taken seriously and not be considered a coward (as the post so blazingly announces) use your real name. Right or wrong, stand up and be a man or woman and state your case. Don't just flame!
Follow me on this one.
Ford made a car. Hmm,
Chevy made a car. who emulated and not get sued.
Intel makes a processor chip to run OS's
AMD makes a processor chip to run OS's
Cyrix, well. Its a chip to run OS's.
Intel and AMD are so close together they could be the same chip! But, they are not.
If I understand emulators, that means I could write a program, that will run other peoples applications. But this is MY code not theirs. If I build a car from the ground up... Is Chevy going to sue me because it LOOKS like their car?
No comment on your car theory... apples and oranges.
On CPUs, reverse engineering is a legal science in itself. To avoid the patent infringment, companies like AMD have to create the designs in a VERY specific way that involves a third party reverse-engineer.
Simple explanation: If you took an Intel chip, opened it up, figured out how it worked, create you own design based on that info - you just became illegal.
Workaround: You hire a third party to buy an intel chip, open it up, figure out "what it does", write a set of specifications. You buy the specification (this handover is is done VERY carefully from a legal standpoint). Your engineers take the spec and build a new chip that "performs the exact same functions" but they never actually look an the Intel chip.
There was a great article in Boot (Now called Maximum PC) magazine last year about exactly how it's done.
In theory, a company could do the same thing to create an emulator, but I suspect the ULTRA guys didn't.
All these people flaming are pretty funny. But why don't we...or Nintendo at least...look past all of the B.S. with this deal and admit that the two guys who coded this up are pretty damn good. In fact, why doesn't Nintendo just give them jobs?? I love Nintendo...always have and always will...but it looks to me like they are being poor losers in this situation. Props to the two guys who coded the whole project by themselves. They obviously KNOW their shit!
Whether or not Nintendo can win if you were the UltraHLE guys would you want to spend the money to defend yourself. Would you have it?
I just read on MSNBC (sorry) about the gun case that was just won by some people. In that article some spokesman said a bunch of states are going to hit the gun companies with a ton of lawsuits. He specifically said something that implied that the cost of defending all those lawsuits would be what would make the gun companies cave in (Implying that they the gun companies might be able to win but won't fight if it costs too much)