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IBM/Red Hat Continues
homebrewer writes "This quick
little blurb on www.yahoo.com tells about IBM teaming up
with Red Hat to sell Linux." Someone else submitted
some bits about IBM providing Think Pads to hackers to make
sure that Linux runs properly? IBM is doing a lot of the
right things. I hear we should expect big things from them
at LinuxWorld too. Update: 02/18 08:43 by CT : here's a
related story.
Similiar stuff, litte more detailed.
From the www.news-observer.com story:
"Linux is rooted in the "open source" movement, which believes that a software's source code (think: recipe) should be pubic domain."
linux thinkpad... slobber ...
Im running linux on my thinkpad, and yes, its every bit as fun as it sounds. the only problem being that the internal mwave modem doesnt work in linux :(. other than that, its been exactly what i wanted. as far as the price... if you look *really* hard you can find some nice deals on used thinkpads.. i got my thinkpad 755c for $350.. used, but in perfect condition.
How about this for a (Linux) Netfinity ad line: "At Infinity there are no walls. Netfinity adds only firewalls." (Refering, of course, to "In a world without walls, there is no need for windows.")
oh, I run it on my vaio 505, so I think I have one up on you ;) but it's more the thought of having the very very cutting edge come pre-installed with Linux that is somehow very satisfying (particularly since the 505 remains the only difficult Linux install I've ever done.)
They are talking about bundling Linux with their RS/6000s, these never shiped with windows in the first place. They normally ship with AIX, IBM's flavor of UNIX, and the Linux versions are cheaper.
Sorry, different story, nevermind.
I think IBM is adopting linux because it's the hip thing to do. Much of their recent marketing has been focused on diminishing public perception of the company as a blue chip monster that makes mainframes; instead, they want us to think that they are on the cutting edge, like the Silicon Valley start-ups. Of course, at the same time, they remind us that they have tons more resources than "Dick and Jane Computer Co." It's a strategy that seems to be working for them so far.
Linux is all over the business press this morning. It was a subject of conversation on CNBC's "Squawk Box" this morning. By adopting it, IBM is getting a sh*tload of publicity, publicity that is congruent with their marketing campaign.
Wasn't this Vinod's 'Nightmare Scenario' for M$?
An article in InfoWorld magazine claimed that IBM would be developing their own version of Linux for PowerPC. The group inside IBM that's looking at Linux on the RS/6000s and PowerPC has dismissed the claim t. They know the port is already done! The Linux/PPC project did it a long time ago.
They thought it was a ridiculous claim. Good thing, too. They shouldn't have to reinvent the wheel. They're actually thinking over there at IBM!
Signed,
Glad AC exists.
IBM Desktop PCs are split into two product lines, Commercial and Consumer. The consumer PCs are the Aptiva branded machines. The commercial desktops have the PCXXX names.
The Aptiva (Consumer) pc us a bit less quality components and are only garenteed to run Win95/98, so you might find something like a WinModem in them. The Commercial Desktops are much more robust machines, come with built in ethernet, wake-on-lan, and other high-end features like ECC memory and SCSI. Components in a commercial desktop tend to be higher quality.
Where the Aptiva lines only support Win95/98 the commercial desktops (available with Win9x/WinNT or barebones (no disk or memory)) are tested with various OSes like WinNT, SCO UNIX, OS/2 and maybe now Linux. Drivers for the various OSes are avaiable. Dual processor versions are available.
You can purchase a Commercial Desktop via mail order. You don't need to be a commercial customer to purchase one, and you probrobly don't want to run Linux on an Aptiva, anyway.
PS I forgot to mention the "Workstations". They are basically commercial desktops in black, usually with SCSI, and Gobs of ECC memory.
I agree, the company i interned at this summer (an IBM AS/400 shop) uses them, and not because they're affiliated with IBM, but beacuse, they're rugged and configurable. As soon as my RH 5.2 CD arrives from CheapBytes, I'm gonna install it on an old ThinkPad 500C that they GAVE me (it's 486-33 w/20 megs RAM and a 330MB HD) along with a PCMCIA portable 2x CD-ROM drive. All I need is a cheap 3Com network card and I'll be able to telnet from anywhere here on campus into my CS labs :)
Respectfully,
Kevin Christie
kwchri@maila.wm.edu
Bzzzzzzzzzzzt .. thank _you_ for playing :-)
Actually there is an early version of AIX (1.x) which was available for the x86 platform. I found out about this not long ago .. there exist archives of this on an internal IBM site. Probably will be fun to try it out.
Yo, ;)
If this is who I think it is, JB, shoot me a note.. I'm wondering what happened to the spicerack.. (and to have a project killed by the CEO in a keynote speech.. I'm so proud we were too dangerous to live!
Cheers,
- Matt
(hennessy@thoughtcrime.com)
Makes sense to me:)
I took my 510 (the thin one - 4.5 lbs.) opn a cross country trip a year ago - never had one bit of trouble with it. If I ever decide to replace it, the only question will be WHICH ThinkPad...
I hate to go against the flow here, and not to knock IBM, but Vaio's ROCK, particularly under Linux. You aren't going to be doing any hardcore graphics under Linux anyway, so you don't need a PII... and the weight is INCREDIBLE. Think of it as a nice portable Xwin terminal. Since it is so light, you'll actually take it places, unlike the "thin" 4 pounder mentioned above.
afaik some of the founders of redhat were ibm employees, so it's not surprising they've made important deals with ibm.
i'm curious if ibm would want to buy redhat outright rather than just license / support their distr.
ThinkPads...PowerPC?
I'm no expert, but from what I've seen, thinkpads aren't exactly the most money. Gateways, Toshibas, and sometimes even Dells are more.
I think in the end we'll see Redhat as the major and the rest as the minor--the Linux used byt the rest of us.
Debian= also ran
SuSE= also ran
Slackware= also ran
Everything Linux will be compared to and against Redhat. It seems that COMPANIES only know REDHAT
I can see why IBM wants to make its own version of Linux. I bet they base it on Linux/PPC. Its good software even with the problems you mention (theyre being addressed), but the company LinuxPPC Inc is awful. Crummy support, late or missing cds...open firmware toasted your drive? Oh well, tough. They do more to hurt Linux on PPC than help it.
I look forward to whatever IBMs gonna do.
IBM, said that they won't release a new version of OS/2 for the desktop. Maybe they should Open-Source it and let the people make a new version... "OpenWarp" anyone?
From michael.amper@tekconnect.com:
As an IBM business partner and a strong believer in (mostly) free-market economics, the first thing I did when my company issued new ThinkPad 380Z's to all its engineering staff last October was to install Red Hat Linux 5.1. Everything works, except for the IBM CardBus 10/100 Ethernet PC Card that shows up as "unknown memory card". I traded it for an older 16-bit 3Com card we had for an older ThinkPad, which works very well.
I was really hoping I could move our company away from its unhealthy dependency on Microsoft and Novell with Mac OS X/Intel, but since *that* port will likely never see the light of day, it's comforting to see that I can finally sell great hardware (as far as Intel-based hardware can be called great, anyway...) *and* a great operating system.
Thank you IBM, and thanks even more to all who have contributed to Linux! May the best technologies always prevail over oppression...
nonsense. This would be in total contradiciton with what you will read @ LinuxWorld. Stay tuned.
is there any open source manufacturing of hardware by IBM? I am not buying a new ThinkPad, without all the hardware documentation and and no third party requiring a NDA.
It is easy to support and make money with Linux and free unix, if you take advantage of what can be done different, even make a lot of money...
OpenFirmware, USB, Ultra SCSI-2, FireWire. But IBM also is making Active Matrix displays? Harddisks? RAM...?
I've looked through a couple of reports on this so far today, and I'm getting a little worried. They all seem to keep mentioning that the PC 300 series of systems are "commercial desktops".
What exactly does that mean? I hope I can still be an individual and buy a single computer with Linux on it at a fair price...
Absolutely! ThinkPads not only have a nicer physical look and feel than other laptops, but they're extremely reliable and they have a decent BIOS setup utility (at least my TP701 does - Fn+Esc anytime, not just on bootup). I've used crappy Compaq and Dell laptops that aren't anywhere near as nice.
Oh yeah, and the TrackPoint stick also sets it well above the rest.
My lease on a Gateway is ending later this year; however, I have been recommending IBM laptops for some time.
The quality is higher, to the extent that an older IBM unit with a 486 chip and a 10.4" screen appeared superior to my P133 with a 12.1" screen. For example, the screen on the IBM was so much brighter that it appeared to be larger than mine. Moreover, the quality of construction appeared to surpass my unit; which had about 5-6 dead pixels, developed a stress crack on the top of the case, and suffered a premature death of a Lithium Ion battery (for which I could not get a technical support response).
This unit, cost above $6000 including leasing fees and a higher level of support. With the remarkable decrease in laptop pricing, one should look at the current top-of-line laptops - but one that is just been supplanted by a newer version.
For example, the introduction of the PII chips to the 770 line did not give a large performance boost, but was costly in terms of battery life (from memory: it dropped to about half). Check out a more general source, e.g. Value America where this combination could yield a good price.
As a matter of honest disclosure, hardware is not my forte, hence do not rely solely upon my recommendations. These represent my plan of action for my laptop replacement.
One other consideration that is pertinent to a Linux user: it functions satisfactorily on a less fully equiped unit than a Windows OS would require. When in doubt, opt for more memory than CPU rating.
I just saw a fairly long (5-10 minutes) interview with Bob Young (RedHat CEO) on Fox News. He did a good job explaining his company and what it does, and agreed with what a lot of us have been saying - they're aiming at servers and enterprise computing, not the desktop, so they're not really competition for Windows95 (as Microsoft has been trying to claim they are). The reporter seemed a bit clueless though about how this whole Open Source deal works. He was confused about how RedHat could make money without controlling the OS, and seemed to think that Bob Young hoped to be the next Bill Gates.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Posted by Mustang|:
:P
(NOTE: Sorry for the double post. This should have originally been a comment. not a reply.)
As I work for IBM, directly with RS/6000's, Netfinity's, and the Thinkpad group as well, I thought I would add a view from the 'inside' of this story.
This is a very good thing for both IBM and Linux. I can assure you all, by talking to people around me, reading Gerstner interviews, and reading intranet news, that IBM is extremely committed and putting a huge amount of resources into this project. The above poster is right: IBM learns from their mistakes. From the experience with Warp we know that we need much better support of our products, and IBM is committed along with RedHat to doing so. We are already running a testbed Netfinity with RH on it here as I write this, and let me tell you, there is nothing like hot-swappable scsi drives in a 3 proccessor machine running Linux.
BTW, as an answer to an earlier question, ThinkPads (especially the newer models...600(E), 770, 390, etc are some of the best products I've seen IBM churn out. Highly reccommended. And yes, we are working on DVD in linux on a 600E. Hope this sheds some light on the subject.
Mustang|
Posted by Rojareyn:
In a word YES!
I work as a consultant and have seen many people with Dells, Gateways, Microns, and Compaqs. Of those, the people who had IBM laptops like those the best.
If you are faced with the decision of shelling out big buck$ for a laptop and have to choose between an IBM or a cheaper model with more features, GET THE IBM. It is worth the technical support.
I am currently on a client site that has had worlds of trouble with Gateways and getting them to talk to the network.
Cheers!
This alliance is now acknowledged by RedHat, in a press release.
Despite what the meept has to say (ain't he/she/it cute?), this is good news. Damn, imagine placing an order for a thinkpad and then saying, oh, yeah, I want Linux on it. Answer: sure, no problemo! Yeehah! That's my next big purchase. I'll just polish up the old cc to get it ready.
"shop smart:shop s-mart" ash
Latest processors never worth the price, but with laptops especially you are much better off with older processor (battery life + heat) and more RAM.
Older Thinkpad 770 (200 P5, 1024x768x16) costs less than latest 300Mh PII from craptops.com will take 256Meg ram and is sturdy as fuck, runs Linux perfectly, very expandable and top quality, 5hr battery, THREE YEAR GUARANTEE.
Picked up mine for £1000 - worth every penny.
http://rareformnewmedia.com/
That was the mistake they made with marketing Warp. They also know that closed technology from a single vendor can't compeat with open technology from all over the world. That's what killed the PS/2 and Microchanel.
The funny thing is that they were superior technology at the time. It just didn't count for much compared to comodity hardware that was 1/2 as fast and 1/3 as rubost. Since Linux has the advantages on both sides of that war ( better quality and multiple vendors ). IBM knows it's the next cash cow. It's the thing that can push the IBM percentage of PC sales into duble figures.
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
Remember, Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM
As a side note, the WSJ has been a good source for following the DOJ trial.
Never hit your grandmother with a shovel, for it leaves a bad impression on her mind...
Even if it's motivated in part by their hate for Microsoft.
:-D
IBM *really* blew it in the 80's and early 90's. MCA and PS/2's anyone? Oh yeah, and OS/2.
Let's hope the techies driving this (?) at IBM can keep management (?) from screwing things up, like binary-only drivers with closed source. I hope they can find a few tidbits in OS/2 that are worth sharing with us, since by their own quiet admission OS/2 is dead on the desktop, and in mostly in maintanance mode on the server.
Lets see them bundle Creative hardware, and maybe the other hardware vendors will come around and support Linux.
I think we are over that first bump, and now these fence-sitting software vendors will come around. Otherwise, someone'll build a free OSS tool that does the job, like FreeCiv and GIMP. 'Hey, support us or we will assimilate your customers and clone your software!'
Is there any chance that IBM will do some work on read-write HPFS?
A lot of those think pads come with a DVD drive.
Maybe this will increase Linux support for DVD?
*drools*
This sig is false.
I've been thinking of getting a laptop, but find the Thinkpad prices are too darned high. Is there any reason one should buy a Thinkpad over other (cheaper) laptops?
Let me know if that's not true.
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
"We could be happy if the air was as pure as the beer"
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
Richard von Weizs
I was thinking of getting one - sure, I'd rather have 1280x1024 on a 7xx series, but that's almost $5,000, while I can get an i-series for about half the price with a pretty decent spec.
D
Per the Wall Street Journal, the answer is no, the price will "most likely" be lower.
:-( ).
However, the systems will apparently be sold and supported by resellers, not IBM directly. This makes me a bit confused - it's unclear whether the systems will be shipped with Windows preloaded and then erased, or if there will be a special "no OS" order.
I hope VA or some other Linux company will buy and resell these systems - I'd love to have a ThinkPad with supported Linux, particularly if it was a 3xx series (since I, sadly, can't justify $ 4-5k for the 770s, more's the pity
A question for IBMers in the audience: Where does ValueAmerica get ThinkPad 770s to sell for $ 1,799.00? I thought IBM sold every one they could make at a high price, and then went straight to the next model. Seems like you'd have to find a massive glitch in IBM's systems to still have 233mhz 770s lying around, but I notice this has happened several times. What's the real story?
(Memo to anyone seriously considering ValueAmerica: Their price for a contemporary ThinkPad (770X) is higher than IBM's "suggested price". Caveat Emptor).
D
For years, IBM has resented the dirty license trick Billy pulled on him by restricting the MS-DOS license to Microsoft, not IBM...now, with linux, IBM has a chance to return the favor, answering Gates' license with a dirty license trick of their own: the GPL.
It's payback time.
Aren't you dead?
The question is, though, are their Linux systems subject to the M$ tax as well?
Perhaps "software" would be the female, and "hardware" the male???
I AM, therefore I THINK!
The most interesting thing in that post is the Providing Thinkpads to Hackers bit!
I want one! Anyone have more info on that?
Of course, posting it here will completely kill anyone's chances of getting one, but still...
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is kinky.
Oy.
...Nothing interesting here. Just move along...
...in the Dollars and Sense segment, and the announcer even pronounced Linux correctly!
;-)
Ladies and Gentlemen, we have arrived.
Ask your doctor if getting up off your ass is right for you! -- Bill Maher
I support IBM Thinkpads for a living... for IBM. From a hardware perspective, they rock. The MWave setup (for those that don't know, MWave is where your sound, modem, and sometimes CD are all controlled by one software driven chip) sucks, yes... under Windows. Under OS/2 it's stable and reliable, but under Windows you often have to choose between your modem and sound. I'd love to see how the thing performs under linux.
Best Thinkpad Support call: "I dropped my Thinkpad from a third story window and cracked the case. The Duct Tape that's holding the display on is starting to peel off, so I figure it's time to get it replaced."
"When did you drop it sir?"
"About eight months ago."
-- "You live and learn. Or you don't live long." -Heinlein
Our motive for adopting Linux is that we want money. More and more it is becoming known that software is not the cash cow in computers anymore. Hardware is part of it, but the real money lies in SUPPORT and MAINTENANCE. One of Microsoft's biggest FUD tools was the lack of technical support... by remedying that, we're in a position to not only boost the OS but reap a lot of the profit in the process. Fortunately, other service providers will profit, because we won't be able to monopolise the support area, but our existence there will cause an increase in the use of Linux overall.... more users means more software & drivers, which means more users.... we won't be the only people helping break the no software=no users=no software cycle, but we'll certainly be making a start!!
(Note: I'm not speaking in any official capacity. I just work for Big Blue, and I know how we think.)
-- "You live and learn. Or you don't live long." -Heinlein
I've been running RH5.2 on an old 360CSE (DX2-50MHz 20Mb RAM, 380Mb disk) for about a year now and it's great for playing on the train.
It's about time IBM started supporting Linux properly & I applaud this completely.