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Water Cooling a CPU
An anonymous reader sent a link to a site
that has lots of nifty bits on how to build a
water cooler
to keep your CPU nice and cool while you clock the
hell out of it. Nice intro page to the subject too.
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Wasn't there another water cooler design not so long ago on /. ? This one looks easier to build too
mtor
Be sur that I'll put a pump and a water tank near my computer.... What is more beautifull than a watertank on your desk!! :)
Yes there was. That person fabricated a water jacket from a copper sheet.
the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
So here I am, building a water cooling system for my cluster, and what do I see? An article on slashdot telling how to water-cool your CPU. I've got a couple of boxes I just made and some tubing right here in my hands, as well as some fish who are about to live in a slightly warmer environment, and decided to check slashdot. Weird. Well, perhaps I should check out the site and see if he's ruined my planned web page telling how I decided to set it up...
--Cloudmaster, who's still gonna put up a page describing the cluster.
I water cool my computer by placing the mother board and components in my bathtub. I fill the bath tub with ice, salt, and water. My hard drive is currently in my toilet. I suggest rinsing the processor off, and then drying it in the microwave, before you put it on the mother board. For added effect, I turn my hair dryer on, and drop it in the tub full of water and computer. The extra voltage helps speed the processor up. The keyboard is grouted to the shower head, and the monitor hangs off the towel rack. Currently I have a 5mhz 8086 clocked to 200 Terahertz. Asside from the occasional underwater fire, it doesn't seem to mind. I do recommend that you ground yourself to the hot end of a High Voltage power line, before you get in the tub. Also note that welding goggels may be necessary, as the processor is near the Nuclear Fusion temprature, and may emit up to 10megawatts of pure UltraViolet radiation. You may experience the occasional rip in the time space near the processor, if this keeps occuring, lower the clock speed by 50 Terahertz. On rare occasions, black holes may develope near the power supply. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE should you pass the event horrizon of the black hole. Do not turn the power off , as this may collapse the universe into your bathroom. There are no known workarounds for the Black Hole problem.
-Master Switch, one more element in the machine
Overclocking is evil. And, more important, I think it hurts software development, especially in OpenSource (mostly people that work at home, on their own boxes), because working on systems that might be instable once in a while leads to unneccessary bug-hunting.
.sig: SEGV
Maybe you need to change the icon to the Monty Python foot-icon, for this be a very humorous topic fer sure.
But hey, water cooling can't be sillier than porting Linux to the 8086. (I guess it takes all kinds to make up slashdot-style nerddom.
I was intrigued by the Water-cooler story so I checked out the web address...or tried to.
/.
It appears that the water-cooling inventor has also created a fool-proof way of crashing IE 4.0 under NT.
I attach no interpretation to this fact. You may think this a good thing or a bad thing, I simply say it is true (at least for my IE 4.0 under NT WS4 SP4).
Ok. Go ahead, show your superior enlightenment by flaming me for mentioning IE and NT on
I have long thought that CPU cooling could be done using a "heat pipe" design. Essentially, you would put a reservoir on top of the CPU, along with an internal heat sink. From the top of the reservoir, you would run a copper tube to a working fluid-to-air heat exchanger. You pressurize the device with refrigerant (like R-134a) so that the critical (boiling) temperature is at the operating temperature for the CPU. Then, as the CPU temperature rises, it will boil the refrigerant which will naturally bubble up the exterior heat exchanger. The heat exchanger can remove the heat and the condensing liquid will trickle back down the pipe. This approach uses convective heat transfer just like the water approach, but has two advantages. First, it is buoyancy driven and, as such, needs no pump. Second, the latent heat of fusion of the evaporating gas provides a significantly higher rate of heat transfer than the sensible heat of the moving water. This is a common approach for HVAC air-to-air heat exchangers. I am surprised someone hasn't tried it on CPUs yet. Something for you undergrads to play with...I have to go finish my dissertation.
That was awesome! =)
...mix worse than Water and Oil. This is a numb idea guys. Stick with giant sized fans and heat sinks.
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
Why don't you market one and sell them then? I sure as hell wouldn't mess around with trying to build one but I might buy one. ;-)
Currently I have a 5mhz 8086 clocked to 200 Terahertz.
OK, you had me until this bit... surely you mean 200 MHz not 200 THz!!
Can I use this on a website?
from the coolcpu web site
>>The first and most obvious benefit is that
>> the processor runs much cooler.
And I care about this -- why?
>>This allows us to run our computers at much
>> higher speeds without having to pay big-bucks
>> for the latest processors.
Oh so it's to save money then?
Let me just say I'm glad my time is worth
more as a hacker than it is as a plumber.
But who knows, this guy may be on to something.
Don't humans love to "baby" their possessions,
like putting extra octane gas in their cars,
or using monster cables for their speakers?
In other words, this might be a good garage
experiment for a future Bell Labs researcher,
but it's not gonna buy you much more than a
"fun" project and a "conversation piece".
Cool thanks =)
I have made an important overclocking discovery. I have found that MOTHERBOARDS CAN BE SUBMERGED IN CANOLA OIL AND STILL OPERATE!!! Currently I have a 486 DX2-66 in an aquarium under about 2 inches of canola oil, overclocked to 80 Mhz. It has been working great for several weeks now. I will try to get pictures of 'canola' soon, and maybe even make a slashdot story about it.
-Alex Dingle
Reminds me of a certain episode where they were :)
water cooling a computer that was to collect the
addresses of everyone on Earth very quickly through
a telemarketing scheme.
(Or something like that.)
Fortunately its very simple to do using solder and a piece of particle board. See this site for more information.
this is a waste of time and money. all that time and money that needs to be spent to get this thing working right is not worth the trouble. hey man, spend those money to upgrade your processor or mobo instead of plumbing equipment.
sure, if you want to waste money and time, you can do this water cooling thing, but I am sure most people here would rather code and become a plumber.
Is people to 'test' the waters (no pun intended) of putting FISH in there tank of water. Would the heat kill them? You need a pump in a fish tank anyways...just a thought :)
SpamMan
"I think the majority of wrong thinking people, are right"
Dr. Drew of LoveLine (a syndicated radio program and also featured on MTV) says that with modern medicine there is no reason for anyone to have acne these days.
...that if you leave your PC on overnight you can make french fries!
Many of Seymour Cray's patents are in cooling systems. I believe the guts of his latest machine actually sat immersed in a fast moving bath of liquid coolant. Would not surprise me if some element of this landed on the desktop someday.
To those who think this is a waste of time, recall that a hobby is something that you intentionally pay more attention to than it really deserves, simply for the joy of doing so.
mahlen
He spent half his money on wine, women, and song, and like a fool he squandered the rest.
--Benny Hill
absolutely halarious
i'm gona do this as soon as my warenty runs out.
I don't get this "It's stupid to build a watercooling system when you can just buy a heatsink and fan" mentality. Don't people _do_ anything anymore? Why do I bother coding for Freeciv when I could just buy Civ2? Why cook myself dinner when I could order pizza?
Maybe people build watercooling systems for their computer because it's an interesting project, and they _like_ building things and solving problems. There's more to life than slashdot and half-life you know.
I think he was suggesting the use of other refrigerants. (Specificaly, I think he said R-134A, which is what modern AC systems use.)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
This is impressive. I think I will be looking into this desigh myself;)
I'll start a post if I get anywhere!
Laugh, it's good for you!
There is a process known as "potting" that involves coating electronics with a thin layer of epoxy resin to protect from harsh environments. Assuming canola oil is a harsh environment, then potting would be a solution to contact contamination. You would still have a pain in the ass trying to change or upgrade though. I think I would like to experiment with liquid CO2 or Nitrogen instead.
I have two boxed pentium processors on my SMP machine, they have epoxied heatsinks and specialized fans that fit inside them. The fans are getting very noisy, but I can't buy new ones (special fans, remember?) and I can't replace the heatsinks (epoxy don't come off). Hell, I can't even buy new CPUs! I'm building my own watercooler now. Unlike the noisy CPU fans, the waterpump is completely silent. The watercooler also costs far less than two peltier devices (~$35 for parts+tools).
Water cooling also takes the heat from the CPUs and moves it _outside_ the case. CPU fans just move heat from the CPU to the inside of the case. Peltier devices create a lot of additional heat in the process. Since my case will be cooler, my harddisk will last longer and I can get by with fewer/slower fans for airflow, resulting in even less noise.
The oil will protect your computer from rusting very well. Although, computers tend not to rust very easily anyway.
The subject says it all. What kind of grout works best? Should I use the regular white kind, or can I use the kind with the little dark speckles in it which is easier to clean. I can't wait to see what my K6-2 can really do!
Thanks,
Steve
I'm waiting for ELKS to be bootable on my palmtop. *Really*. (HP 200LX) Why, because it would be cool to be able to do it.
-Steve
Liquid CO2 is only available at high pressures. and the problem with that cold things is condensing water.
Canola oil doesn't strike me as something that would transfer much heat... but then again, I'm a software guy -- what would I know?
Any chemists out there care to comment?
I used to be a heat pipe application engineer and here is the deal. Yes, heat pipes are way cool and can do a lot of cooling. However they also are a lot of trouble. Orientation becomes importand. They are expensive, They do not have infinite life..
I would tell most people on the phone, you are better with a well designed heat sink....
Okay, you want to talk the Ultimate heatsink?
A "Pin fin" heat sink where the pins are small heat pipes.
It has been done but it is not cheap...
Actually, without all the garbage in it, water is not a very good conductor at all...
I agree...
most slashdot posters are fuckheads (including you)
Posted by jchaw:
I believe he immersed the components in freon. Moreover someone later on used a faucet to direct fast flowing freon onto panels.
We can all read abt in the book called 'Superman'. It talks abt Seymour Cray and his life dealing in Supercomputers.
[JASON@CHAW]
What a jerk.
He obviously doesn't see the benefits of saving money--"Oh, it's about saving money, then."
Hell yes it's about saving money!!!!!
Not all of us can afford to blow cash on the latest & greatest. We *all* want the highest performance possible.
BTW, how is this any nuttier than a CryoTech machine? They use cryogenic cases to boost PII's and Alphas...
I have Linux running on my PowerMac (a 604e/200Mhz that's a few years old now)
... but the new PPC G3 750 upgrades from Xcelerate [sic] run well enough that some Mac users have clocked them above the "certified" 460 Mhz... up to 533 Mhz.
AND the CPU still ran at about 85 degrees Farenheit (not 85 C!)
This means the CPU has enev more overclock potential... if you can find fast enough cache RAM and such...
Tell that to a sushi-lover! :)
Actually, I suppose a balanced ecosystem would
be pretty hygienic (if the fish stayed alive, that
would be a good sign). Just need to make sure to
have a good aquarium filter and direct the clean
water output to the heat sink input.
As far as conversation pieces go, I think that
the fish tank adds a nice Rube Goldbergian touch.
Okay dokey more information.
It is true that anyone can make a heat pipe relatively easily. All that is needed is copper pipe, a good wicking material(not as cheap) and some fittings. Somehow a liquid inside is pulled to a vacuum and the system is sealed. The problems comes from the fact that over time gas is released and the heat pipe stops working. The pipe corrodes, gas is created the pipe stops working. SO YES, THERE IS A BREAKDOWN AND THEY HAVE A FINITE LIFE. If you pressured a commercial heat pipe company about their lifespan they would likely say about 20 years...
Alltold, a carefully made home made heat pipe would last about a year.
Water is one of the best liquids since it has a high heat of vaporization/condensation(= more heat transfered) and is more inert other liquids.
Now, where does the heat go? The biggest challenge or resistance is the fin/air resistance.
Most commercial heat pipes use fins that are swagged onto the pipe at high pressure -- your home hobbyist would have a real hard time doing this. To get any kind of real heat transfer a good fan is required blowing air through the fins.
HEAT PIPES / HEAT SINKS ONLY WORK BETTER BECAUSE THEY CAN ALLOW A LARGER AREA OF FINS TO TRANSFER HEAT TO THE AIR.
Along these lines, to double efficiency of a heat sink of any kind, you need to double the fin area. So you start getting much larger heatsinks to make them more efficient..
Okay, the last topic I mentioned -- the pin fin heat pipe heat sink. I assumed there was a fan above blowing on the heatsink. The fan above a pin fin heat sink provides one of the best designs in electronics cooling today. The pins help make the air flow more turbulent helping heat transfer.
What do you mean, fish aren't hygenic? They spend their entire lives taking baths. What could be more hygenic than that? :)
OMG that was funny. Write for segfault or something. I've been chuckling over your post for the last 1/2 hour.
WebFetus, hating his unmemorizable password.
change the filter and clean algae from
the tubings? For my home aquarium, the
filter manufacturer recommends monthly cleaning
of the filter parts. I guess you could have
redundant filters and a valve to switch
between them.
Even with a half-hour of
downtime per month, Linux would
still provide superior uptime compared to
a windows box.
Hey, we were swapping processors and isa cards
while they were fully submerged and saturated!
Maybe canola oil is tommorrow's space-age
material for keeping electrical contacts clean...
You never know... (=
- Chris the accomplice
It's a miracle that someone hasn't brought up the waterPOWERED computer in the New Hacker's Dictionary...
teleny, friend of cats.
Aren't you supposed to used distilled water to make it last longer? That's just what I want, fish-shit plugging up my pentuim... :-P
I believe some of the early Alpha CPUs used a heatsink design similar to this...
Unfortunately, using liquid nitrogen would cause parts of the motherboard to shatter, as different materials have different rates of contraction under cold temperatures. Your CPU would be shot for sure.
If you really want to do something like this, get a tank of liquid nitrogen, seal your computer case, run the excess vapour from the tank through the case, recondense it and pump it back into the tank. Once the cycle gets going, it'll run forever (as long as you have electricity, anyway) and if you do it right, you don't get any condensation problems (pump all the air out of the case before you start the nitrogen).
I bet that you'd find that Mineral Oil would be superior to Canola for the following reason: it doesn't rot/oxidize.
Believe it or not, natural oils like Canola get stale and really stinky!
Mineral oil doesn't suffer from these problems.
-Jeff Baitis
Cooling page of Gary's Encyclopedia (no advertising)
Ya, pointers are evil too, for people who don't know what the hell they're doing...Same deal with overclocking...
I think using the CPU as on wall for the cooler
is a pretty good idea. The problem with heatsinks
is that they tend to fall off unnoticed. (except mine, which I glued on with SuperGlue...)
Your CPU is outdated long before the metal plate corrodes enough to become a problem. Besides, you could paint it with some heat-conducting stuff...
The Dreamcast is water cooled. groovy eh?
Okay, so I have this car and I want to get better performance out of it. So, I buy a customized EPROM for it, that gives me 5 more miles to the gallon, and a more efficient air intake system that improves my gas milage even more and gives it a bit better responce on the peddal... but I shouldn't do that. I should just keep it like it was from the factory, because I should be a mindless robot like you. Never question, never wonder, never learn.
Knowledge it power, power corrupts. Study hard, be evil!
No problem there. Just get an SMP system (provides more heat), a bigger aquarium and some electric eels. Some big condensators, some diodes, some voltage regulators (the eels give out about 500V) and you're set!
;-)
HTH...
Simple things should be simple, complex things should be possible.
Yes, I saw one of those immersion cooled Cray's at Ft. Meade when I was in the Air Force. Pretty cool stuff, but it was a slightly modified design for "specific computing purposes". It had small windows on the side of it so you could see the circuit boards immersed in the coolant and bubbles going up along the board.
Actually, I suppose a balanced ecosystem would be pretty hygienic (if the fish stayed alive, that would be a good sign). Just need to make sure to have a good aquarium filter and direct the clean water output to the heat sink input.
That's what I was intending to do; run the water through a filter before going to the processors. After reading the article, however, I'm actually considering having a seperate, closed system for cooling, and a radiator-type thing sitting under the gravel in the fish tank, so the cooler's water should be fine.
My point was not about leakage. Although this can be a killer. My point is that over time, the active liquid inside reacts with the pipe - or de composes creating more pressure within the pipe causing "gassing" this gassing will eventually kill the pipe.
Refridgerants are not generially used in heat pipes since they tend to react with the pipe and break down. Yes, they are quit stable but understand it only takes amount of gas to kill a heat pipe. Heat pipes usually operate in low pressure environments -- the liquid is pulled to a vacuum and the pipe is sealed.
The most common active liquids are as fallows -- in order of reliability
Water - used most of the time..
Alcohol -- used when freezing may be encountered.
Ammonium -- used in areas where water cant -- freezing. Thousands of Ammonium heat pipes were replaced on the alaskan pipeline and replaced with alcohol
Sodium -- high heat areas Nuclear reactors -- Solar collectors and the like.
In a very similar circumstance. Intel announce yesterday that they will be selling the Pentium IV chip with an igloo attachment then hooks the processor directly into a block of ice.
Way to go intel!!!
Technology's a battle between companies producing more idiot-proof systems and nature producing bigger and better idiots
I actually developed a different technology that seems to be able to allow you to keep the heat down even better then a water cooling system. I have actuallyl developed a small freezer attachment for my processor. It is an even more simpkle attachment t make at home with spare parts that you may just have lying around. The first step is to make the actual freezer unit. for that all that you need is an old lunchbox thermos. Then you stick this onto the chip and seal with a thick layer of silicone. *note* I found that the thermos fit much easer when I cut a hole the circumference of the thermos in the side ofmy computer. The the next step is to cut a small hole in the side of the thermos. Find some good thermal tubing then you are almost set. The next and last stpe is the most simple of the whole setup. All that you need to do is hook these cables into the cables from a noraml everday Freezer. And there you have it. A CPU that will never overheat, and on the plus side, you won't have to leave your computer when you get thirsty. You will have a refrigerator right next to it. Now you weanna talk about a nice desktop . I would rather a refrigerator then a fish tank any day of the week!!!
Technology's a battle between companies producing more idiot-proof systems and nature producing bigger and better idiots
Don't you just, like.... Pour water on it?
Posted by RobReynolds:
:)
Tell that to Cray.
That was cool!
i tried to check the link (twice) and in both times,it rebooted my machine plain and simply,i'm on NT (ok,it's lame but then,i haven't finished crafting my basic linux setup),the machine is set so regular users can't reboot it and yet,the java app manage to reboot it.......
Frustrated Canadian AC
it crash NS 4.5 under NT4 SP4.......
Still Furrious Canadian AC
Fine on IE5 beta 2 over NT4 SP4, through an MS firewall :-)