Slashdot Mirror
Java 2 on Linux
EmilEifrem writes "Just in case you guys felt like posting something about Java, Infoworld says that Java2 is due to be released Thursday. Is it Thursday over there yet? "
It supposedly will be online after it propogates
to the mirrors.
This is great news! but there is
no news on blackdown about this
yet...
Steve Byrne mentioned on the mailing list he
did put a prerelease somewhere.
Haven't seen a mirror carrying it yet.
Waited so long, now I can wait one more day.
Here's how to find out whether Java is supported on your OS:
Get Netscape. Use it to view a web page with a Java app on it.
If your machine runs fine, then you don't have Java support. If, on the other hand it slows down to a crawl, ends up having a swap frenzy, then eventually kills Netscape (or the whole machine in the case of M$ OSes), then you do have Java support.
Easy isn't it?
I'll leave it for a few days in here.
According to the 1.2 status page on blackdown, a multicast bug in the 2.0.3x kernels is keeping the JDK from passing the JCK certification tests.
I wonder if the bug exists in 2.2.x kernels.
The performance and instability problems you're talking about are a problem with Netscape's Java support, not of Java in general. Blackdown's JDK 1.1.7 port is fine and it's been available for a long time now.
I downloaded this Java 2 and began playing it. I came to the second level and killed the guardian - and all of a suddenly I've solved the game? I mean what's up with that. Surely everyone expected more playability from Java 2?
William S B
What's the licence?
And another question: How is Java 2 different from Java 1.2?
there is no difference, when java 1.2 was officialy released, sun changed the version to 2 (like they did with solaris 2.7 -> 7)
cob2k25@iebgener.org
Blackdown's JDK1.1.7 port is fine?? I would say it has severe performance problems and scaling problems. Check out ...ouch, can't find the URL. There was a post on ./ a few days ago about a comparison between different JVMs. Only the FreeBSD java port scored worse than blackdown's port. And on scalability, blackdown's was the worst of them all. I think IBM's OS/2 port was the fastest JVM. And Sun's 1.2 JVM on Solaris was the most scalable. Of course you get better performance using TYA. But no one can claim TYA being stable...
The multicast bug is fixed in AC's latest 2.0.37 prepatch. It is also fixed in 2.2.
I wasn't able to kill the guardian... instead, I got into a "maze of twisty passages, all alike". Any ideas? This Java 2 thing is hard!
Tom
tcopeland@comdt.uscg.mil
'man date'.
e.g. % TZ=MET date
Yeah, isn't java 2.0 just a renamed java 1.2 ???
Hasn't this been out for months ????
What's new is that it now runs on linux;
in addition to DOS and Solaris.
Um, Java 2 supports the JAVA3D APIs, right?
So does that mean that JAVA3D is available on
LINUX?
Turns out that SUN has released JAVA source
code for a VRML loader and renderer in JAVA3D,
hence my question...
Charlie Lindahl
Java 3D is a Java Standard Extension, so it's seperate from Java 2. The article did say that Blackdown was working on a port of some of the extensions like Java3D, JavaSound, Java Advanced Imaging, and the Java Multimedia Framework - but they probably won't be released with Java 2.
I don't think it's available yet.
But there was a blurb on Infoworld that blackdown had licensed the Java Media Api's. ( Java 3D, Java Media Framework, Java Advanced Imaging, and Java Sound)
Java3D is not a part of the Java2 core, but as the article says:
Sun has also licensed the Blackdown group to bring Sun application programming interfaces, including Java 3D API, the Java Multimedia Framework API, Java
Advanced Imaging API, and the Java Sound API to Linux.
Björn (att work)
Jdk1.2 was built on debian system. On red hat it's looking for libstdc++-libc6.0-1.so.2 and docs said it's part of egcc. Well, there is no egcc for red hat anywhere on the web. Is it egcs? Can anybody provide a clue as what should be installed on rh system? Prefferably in rpm format.
That was a JavaWorld report on the performance based upon their VolcanoMark test. But I'm not quite sure i buy it since i run Blackdown side by side with NT VM's and Blackdown is consistently faster and more stable. Blackdown 1.1 is even faster then JAVA-NT 1.2 (which has better Garbage collection, etc)
don't believe everything you read... try it yourself
Great! Thank you!
Can you tell us, simple mortals, where did
you get it from?
VB is better than Java, you guys are just messed up. VB complies to native code, not bit codes, and It has a very nice development application. Also Visual Basic is a very logical well thought out one, not some hack on a hack like Java. Orignainally Java was for running toasters. Idfeel really safe with a nuclear reactor controlled by a program language designed for running toasters.
Gesick for president
Kaffe, combined with OSKit, was used to produce
a JavaOS in little time.
It should therefore, be possible to have get a
low level integration of the kaffe VM with the
Linux kernel.
i.e. Making the threads implementation use the
low level Linux thread call(s), etc. -- the VM
could the be loaded and unloaded on demand, and
used for execution of Java code.
Thanks for the laugh!
he-he.
ROTFLMAO
-posting anonymously because I forgot who I am
BASIC does what it was intended to do very well, give beginners something to get started with (it stands for Beginners All Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code). Now, for professional work, stick with C, C++, or Java. But one should always welcome beginners to the pack. Welcome.
Bait taken. VB is so impressive that Bruce McKinney, author of Hardcore Visual Basic, decided not to write anymore additions after VB 5.0 due to VB's cruftiness. I think this one was /.ed a few weeks ago.
I doubt it'll be very stable that way.
Well, I remember that some previous releases of 1.1.6 and 1.1.7 were available from Steve Byrne's home page directly (he's the main blackdown porter), so I went to blackdown.org/~sbb, and lo and behold, there it was. :-) It didn't appear to have been linked to the main blackdown page yet.
I put a link /usr/lib/libstdc++-libc6.0-1.so.2 -> /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.2.8. Yes, it works, but i'm getting "thread is not owner" core dumps every other run. Any clues?
By the way, the same thing happens with OpenGroup's jdk1.1.6 while in naitive threads. But not that often. Is it Linux threads bug?
Strange... the one I'm mirroring on my site (see post below) came directly from blackdown.org/~sbb (23 MB), but a file just showed up on a mirror (ftp.tux.org/pub/java) which is 36 MB; I wonder what the discrepancy is? I'll check when I get home from work.
Perl is the "default" internet language as a whole; however, within the corporate world, Java is the default internet language.
Hehe...nice way to start a flame:)
VB doesn't support OO. If you say
it does, you're full of it. Look
at its support for inheritance and
polymorphism.
If it ain't OO, I don't want it.
You goys don't know what you are talking about.
/. , it's the my tool is better than yours thingy but....
This thread has gone on for ages on
Java is light years ahead of perl/python, the networking and distributed libraries (RMI) make it alone in it's category.
Java and Perl also work well together and that combination has a place, but reading the "perl" is it makes chuckle. The "right tools for the right job" make me chuckle too. Listen when a tool is out there, a tool is out there, a tool is out there, the rest is posing.
regards
Well, the oracle folks seem to say that... that the web will accomodate for Linux+java in a bright spot.
From a developers standpoint it is a trivial statement, yes of course! linux and java are it, 5 years down the road it will be the equivalent of "MS+intel" albeit purely in the software world.
It is just so much simpler and powerful (and now free, well almost) than any other solution (yes, including perl)
thomas
Thanks for a balanced view, I do believe the bait was pretty good though.
I will second the "network" approach of java, it is clear, simple and powerful, some point out that there are no equivalent to the RMI libraries, I don't know if that is true but they are pretty darn easy and clear to use.
Also the native compilation is a moot point. Java can also be compiled to native code (towerJ and such)
albert stein
My tests indicated extrememly minor to no performance increase when compiling VB5 code to 'native'. I'd bet it just statically linked the runtime dll to the entry point in the exe, since the code size grew by exactly the size of the runtime dll.
VB sux, Java is 'better', Python is best...
jmr
Totally wrong.
NN VM rests inside the PID, using the main().
This test merely tells you whether the VM
works in NN. Since most recent NN do not
even set a classpath, there's no outside support.
The support of Java is not needed, is buggy,
and should be removed from the kernel.
Blackdown has the One True Way to Linux Java.
Learn to program and then get back to me.
Does anyone know whether or not this version of Java will come with a JIT compiler?
The file on the mirror site is gzip compressed
while the file on the blackdown site is bzip
compressed. I guess that makes a big diff!
Mo DeJong
dejong at cs.umn.edu
Good call. I'm almost done downloading the .tgz; if it's actually different than the .bz2, I'll offer them both. (here, in case you missed it).
Just because it passes the JCK does not make it "production quality." For instance:
1. It only passes the JCK in green threads mode; the native threads deadlock the JCK. The JCK doesn't care whether the Java implementation uses green or native threads, but many people do.
2. Java2 comes with the sunwjit (Sun's just-in-time compiler), but it currently only works with the native threads package (on Linux, this is), and, as I said before, native threads are broken enough to deadlock the JCK.
So, you see, if you want a standard (and probably robust) Java bytecode interpreter which works well with green threads, then this release will probably be just fine for you. If, however, you want native threading, to take advantage of your fat SMP box, or you want to use a JIT and be comfortable that it won't blow up, then this release is certainly a "pre" release.
is it possible to release a Java application under the GPL, or are there Java-intrinsic licensing barriers to that? i am planning on releasing a GPL-ed Java product, if i can.
It went something like this:
Enter user's first name: John
Enter user's last name: Doe
Enter user's account name: jdoe
Account created!
I'm now a Java developer and sometimes I miss those days of command-line UIs... sigh.
Oh, and a note to any aspiring developers out there: Don't learn Perl as your first language! What a horror-show that was.
Java is important to Linux not _only_ because Java is used in the internet, but also because both Java and Linux have tremendous potential on the business server side. :)
Linux on as the server: Linux scares the sh*t out of mickysoft because it gives people much more bang for the buck as a server (vs. NT). Vendors like Oracle, Sybase and Netscape are porting to Linux for this very reason.
Java on the server: Java's enterprise APIs (RMI, EJB, JTS, JSDK,...) make is _Very_ easy to create robust enterprise applications. I programmed for 6 years in C++ but switched to Java about 1.5 years ago. I shutter when I think about doing the type of work that I'm doing now using C++. It would be an order of magnitude harder!!!
Conculsion: Java and Linux are a perfect match!
PS -- Thanks to Steve Byrne and everyone else a blackdown for their hard work on the Java ports to Linux
or does it use the non-standard single CPU green threads?
I understand it uses native threads.
This is pre-release anyways
With Java I can run code I don't trust - mobile agents, anyone? (taintperl only lets you run trusted code on untrusted *data*), and I get threads and builtin RPC.
hehe.
What would I rather see?
A nuclear powerplant running applications from VB
or a nuclear powerplant running apps from Java?
or a nuclear powerplant running apps from C++?
For certainly NOT in C++, there are not many ppl
in this world who can write large projects in C++
wihtout making lots of nasty little errors that
come to light at the strangest of times.
(If you are of the opinion that this is wrong,
then your misinformed)
Java? Um sure, Id like to put ciritical
apps on a platform that is brand new and
changes at least every week if not more
often, and has more undocumented API changes
than anything else I have ever known about.
No I think of those 3 (all mentioned in posts
regarding this thread) VB migth actually be
pretty good.
Far from ideal though. I think neither of
those langs are prefrable for something
as critical as running a nuclear powerplant.
I also use Blackdown Port of JDK1.1.7. Without the TYA JIT, things worked but were sluggish; with the TYA JIT, things got quite snappy. I'm able to run anything I want to including NetBeans2.0 Java IDE.
Some of my Java apps have been going for days with no problems.
Better to have TYA than not. I like it!
Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
Posted by wri guy:
Sorry, but I think your Java logo is lame.
Won't Sun allow you to use the real logo?
I would think they would like the publicity!
Gee, I wonder who the idiot was that suggested this fix in the jitterbug log?
(of course, switching to Debian 2.1 is going to be my bugfix as of next week, but still.)
Considering that the announcement explicitly says that it is a prerelease ONLY FOR THE BRAVE, this sort of "oooooh scaaaarey" dialogue has all the importance of your average War on Drugs.
"But weird shit could happen, JUST LIKE THEY SAY!"
Remember that what's inside of you doesn't matter because nobody can see it.
--
Why do I constantly hear things like "Linux won't natively support java any time soon". Err, it does already, and has done for some time - last time I compiled my kernel it was right there: "Support for Java binaries"...
Have I got this confused (it works on my machine - perhaps I'm the only one) or is this FUD?
Matt. Want XML + Apache + Stylesheets? Get AxKit.
E,N,E,M,E,N,E,M,I,N,E,M,O
Now, the next stage is trickier. You have to complete the Swing, defeat the Native and discover the magic ORB of the Dyslexic Snake.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Regardless, the one you want is libstdc++ 2.9, so that could be part of the problem
Although there are many "cons" pointed out about Java that are valid, on the whole I think it's going to get bigger, not go away. It does potentially make some projects easier. Additionally, monsterboard and dice.com seem to show an increasing demand for Java developers (while the demand for VB skills is decreasing).
Check JitterBug first! Bug #424
d =424;page=14;user=guest
http://www.blackdown.org/cgi-bin/jdk/incoming?i
Java is a programming language, not a game!
So unfortunately what you write is not very accellerated.
However, you can license Magician classes, which provide an OS-agnostic 3D interface in Java, and works on Win32, Irix, MacOS... not sure about Linux.
The program I test is Java-based, using these extensions. I'm running on very nice hardware so I couldn't describe how it runs on standard systems without geometry accelleration and hardware OpenGL support.
The readme file states that a JIT is included
and used by defualt. And that it is based on
the Solaris x86 version. This is great news,
I think. Anyone notice any speed improvements?
Never express yourself more clearly than you are able to think. --Niels Bohr
From the status page:
Most people already know why, but in case you don't: the source licensing agreement that the Blackdown Team has with Sun says that we cannot release our ports, even in pre-release testing form, without passing the JCK. So, even though our port has been running quite well since November, we can't release it because there are some JCK tests that it doesn't yet pass.
So what's this? Does this mean that this build does pass all the compatibility tests (sounds like it has to, or they couldn't release it at all), but does not run stably (you'd think general stability would be among the criteria that Sun insists on)?
By the way, funny story: two days ago, a friend asked me about Java 2 for Linux. I hunted around a little and pointed him to blackdown.org, which had 1.1.8 available, and 1.2 "Real Soon Now". Then yesterday at Linux World, I saw that the Sun booth had "Java 2 SDK for Linux" signs up, so I asked the guy about it. He said that an hour earlier Steve Byrne had been there and showed him that the size of the file on his web page was increasing as it was being uploaded from his machine at home over a slow dial-up. Now this. So this is not the real release yet, but still, a lot of coincidences. For once, "Real Soon Now" really is soon.
David Gould
David Gould
main(i){putchar(340056100>>(i-1)*5&31|!!(i<6)<< 6)&&main(++i);}
BASIC
/bay'-sic/ /n./ [acronym: Beginner's All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code] A programming language, originally designed for Dartmouth's experimental timesharing system in the early 1960s, which has since become the leading cause of brain damage in proto-hackers. Edsger W. Dijkstra observed in "Selected Writings on Computing: A Personal Perspective" that "It is practically impossible to teach good programming style to students that have had prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration." This is another case (like Pascal) of the cascading lossage that happens when a language deliberately designed as an educational toy gets taken too seriously. A novice can write short BASIC programs (on the order of 10-20 lines) very easily; writing anything longer (a) is very painful, and (b) encourages bad habits that will make it harder to use more powerful languages well. This wouldn't be so bad if historical accidents hadn't made BASIC so common on low-end micros. As it is, it ruins thousands of potential wizards a year.
BASIC
David Gould
David Gould
main(i){putchar(340056100>>(i-1)*5&31|!!(i<6)<< 6)&&main(++i);}
hmm Netscape does that anyway even with no java
---
You're comparing apples to oranges. Blackdown's JDK doesn't include a JIT. Solaris, Windows, OS/2, and others were all tested with the JIT. If you disable the JIT, you'll find that Linux's port is quite nice.
As for the scalability, I believe they were testing a version running green threads. The native threads included in Blackdown's 1.1.7 ought to help. The 2.2 kernel also should help, as it has much better support for threads.
There's no defending the performance of TYA, though. I keep hoping that IBM and/or Sun will release a JIT open source. That would be really nice...
--Be human.
I didn't mean that TYA was slower than Blackdown--it's not. In fact, TYA is about 2x faster, according to my own benchmarks (real world code to load data from disk, process data, then manually create an image (i.e. no hardware acceleration through native code)).
However, as a JIT, this simply sucks. Most JITs are about 10x faster than interpreters.
That said, the Blackdown port is a little bit faster (~10%) than Sun's interpreter (ooh, now I'm comparing apples to oranges--the Sun interpreter is running under WinNT).
However, for complex applications (I write oil industry apps & tools, not animated icons for the web), interpreted code is simply unacceptable. Furthermore, TYA's performance is also unacceptable. What is acceptable? The Symantec JIT (the one that ships with JDK1.1.7) is awesome. The MS JIT is also awesome (with my code, it's with 5% of the Symantec JIT; sometimes faster, sometimes slower). I don't have access to IBM's JIT, but I've been told by reliable sources that it is about 2x faster than MS' and Symantec's. I've also been told that a group inside IBM turned off a few of Java's features (most notably, bounds checking), and received an *additional* 10x speedup on mathematical code (I write seismic viewers, and must perform stuff like filtering, normalization, and scaling--this stuff should all benefit greatly by removing bounds checking). There is some talk that the JavaGrande group (the Java supercomputing group) will convince Sun to allow the JVM to turn off bounds checking, but only after telling the user that they're about to commit an agregious act.
--Be human.
Many congratulations to the Blackdown folks for getting the prerelease of the port out. Great work, guys! We really appreciate what you've done.
To the Linux community - Java is very important for the future of Linux, it's imperative that Java work well on it. Java is already the language for Internet programming, and it's becoming the language for embedded networking thanks to Jini. Linux is uniquely positioned to serve these areas. We have a real opportunity here, especially now that Microsoft is dropping the Java ball.
The one problem left is the licensing model - Java isn't exactly Free. But Sun is pursuing very interesting licensing terms with their Community Source License; it's worth a look. The SCSL isn't Open Source (tm), it's more restricted so that Sun has a commercial angle on their work. But overall, it's interesting. They're pursuing this strategy very aggressively, releasing Solaris and their CPU designs (Sparc and picoJava) under SCSL.
I don't know the names of the RPMs, but Debian's "egcc" is egcs, and libstdc++ (as far as I know) is part of the egcs package, at least as it comes from Cygnus. As someone else has reported, this seems to already be in the Blackdown bug tracking system.
*Snork*
Java has lots of cool libs, but as a language, what does it have? No list literals. No associative array type. No array slicing literals. No multiple inheritance (I like the option to have a dangerous tool). No meta-object protocol. No parametric polymorphism. No method calls on primitives (like say, 4.sqrt()). No tail recursion elimination. No first-class functions (I'm staggered by that). No named arg passing. No lambda forms, no dynamic scope. No generic functions.
Really, the only innovation I've seen is anonymous classes.
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
Yeah. ON ERROR GOTO
GOTO. my sides are splitting. Even MOO is more advanced than VB.
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
Y'know, I wouldn't want a nuclear reactor to run Java, and neither does Sun:
4. High Risk Activities. Notwithstanding Section 2, with respect to high risk activities, the following language shall apply: the Software is not designed or intended for use in on-line control of aircraft, air traffic, aircraft navigation or aircraft communications; or in the design, construction, operation or maintenance of any nuclear facility. Sun disclaims any express or implied warranty of fitness for such uses.
I'd check my VB license but I'd have to install Windows first, sorry.
I'm on Slashdot. I'm so happy. Can't you guys /. my web site now, just for fun? Please?
..faster? more stable? without a good JIT?
It is like 30% slower on my code. At the very least.
Hope Java 2 port is better. It should be.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
Just add a sym link to your existing libstdc++
/usr/lib/libstdc++*[whatever you have] /usr/lib/libstdc++-libc6.0-1.so.2
ln -s
It works for me !!!
- sigs are for wimps.
Hehehe. That's pretty funny.
Seriously though, you'd feel better having a bunch of VBXs hacked together running a nuclear power station? Originally, VB was intended as a scripting language, oh, wait, it still is.
VB is easy, it's the microsoft way of doing things: allow for flashy, management impressing demos to be whipped up at a whim, but forget about the back-end. As soon as I ever started doing serious work in VB, I ended up spending more time working around those 'black-boxes' than getting any work done. Java is *much* better thought out and allows for much, much more easily customized UI, and other little things like language security, etc. I've just spent 3 hours today tracking down a bug in a VB application that was caused by someone not initializing a variable. You can't do that in Java, which, amoung other things, makes it a much more robust language, much more naturally un-error prone.
Anyway, VB has it's place. It is easy to throw together flashy database connected demonstrations, but it doesn't do anything that Java can't do. Especially considering all the RAD enviroments coming out for Java. And your Java executable will run almost anywhere ( and getting more and more ).
As far as VB being more logical, that's interesting. However, I'm not going to comment as anything I would say would probably come across as rude.
Finally, as anyone with any experience will tell you, Java is *the* language to use for network work. Even the microsoft oriented books I've read on COM and stuff say that Java couldn't be better designed to integrate with COM if it tried, and is clearly the language of choice for any ORB driven programming model.
BTW, does VB actually compile to real code now? Isn't it done with p-code, but cleverly link in the run-time stuff?
CraigL->Thx();
He knows. that's sarcasm.
It's actually just a neat hack that checks to see if you are trying to run a .class file, and if you are it chops of the .class extension and passes it to the Java interpreter, which of course must be installed in a standard location. If someone out there is looking for something to do, how about adding support for executable jar files? I made a stab at it a few months ago but didn't get very far (not really knowing what I was doing). Here's a URL to look at : http://www.tools.de/java/ . Send me some EMail when you've got it working :)
I'm sorry to say that, like the VolanoMark (not 'Volcano', actually), my Java server code gets much poorer performance under linux than under NT. And on linux I bog down terribly after threading to 100 simultaneous TCP connections. NT allows me to handle 1,000 clients pretty easily.
This is very discouraging, and I hope the new Blackdown release (which advertises native threads) will improve performance there.
Note that the VolanoMark benchmark is essentially a chat server, so if you do other kinds of Java work, your results will vary.
according to the pre-release announcement, Java 3D is expected "in another couple of weeks or less", with JMF and the others to follow later.
Sun realease it months ago but we were still waiting for the port to linux, i can't wait for the day when it gets released the same time as the Win32 and Solaris JVM's
> Java is already the language for Internet programming
Nope, that's Perl!
/Alex
From what I've been able to tell, VB does compile to real code, as of VB5. However, this VB executable still requires a big honkin' library DLL. Sort of like MFC, only you can't possibly link the libraries statically.
Weblogging Considered Harmful:
As much as i hate to admit it, I do a bit of VB programming. I am currently in the process of learning Java, in the hope that it will serve some of my light programming needs better than VB. Admittedly, I'm still running 5.0, so I suppose some major changes may have been incorporated into version 6.0; maybe you can tell me if they have.
So, has VB added decent networking capabilities since 5.0? I'd be surprised if Microsoft has provided anything better than the poorly documented, unreliable ActiveX controls that came with 5.0.
How about error handling? Is there any way to trap and handle errors other than continuing execution until you feel like checking error numbers? I'd feel much safer around a nuclear reactor controlled by a language with exception handling.
Every now and then, I'm amused to hear someone refer to Visual Basic as an object oriented language. I suppose aggregation could be considered a crude form of inheritance, but does VB have anything remotely like polymorphism?
I'm not going to go into platform independence in any detail, because the very words make Microsoft supporters curl up and whimper. Java may not have reached the goal of platform independence, but at least it considers it a goal.
Finally, I suppose that with the way you write and spell, you need a programming environment that will complete function names and check syntax on the fly. The more literate among us prefer the ability to choose tools to meet our needs.
P.S. I'm sorry, that last bit was a cheap shot, and I'm better than that.
P.P.S. No, on second thought, I'm not better than that.
Weblogging Considered Harmful:
D'oh! You're right, I was getting VB, which has the "on error goto" syntax, confused with VBScript, which only has the "on error resume" statement. I apologize on that particular count. However, without getting into the problems of the "goto" statement, I still prefer Java's exception handling for passing additional error data in a fairly standard way.
Weblogging Considered Harmful:
Alright, perhaps now I can convince my boss to allow us to support linux. Ah who am I kidding, he's a suit.
-davek
6th Street Radio @ddombrowsky
No, no. You have to support the guardian with the servlets class, not kill him. Use the JSDK2.0 as a tool and extend the hell outta him.
Then you can gain access to the next level, and eventually come face to face with the Jini.
[sarcasm is good for the soul]
MidKnight
Sure, Perl works... but internet applications are well on their way to being full-blown apps... ever tried to create a UI with Perl?
No associative array type.
It's called java.util.Ha shtable.
--
Do I look like I speak for my employer?
Wasn't the internet written in BASIC?
I remember reading the code for it a ways back on my TRS-80...
But it seemed rather slow; I didn't know why they didn't write it in machine code.
I also read an article about converting salt into a clock radio
------------- Linux: Welcome to a GNU Generation -------------
SUN's Community Source License is indeed worth
looking into. Especially if SUN speaks truly
about Java Workshop going "Community Source".
http://www.sun.com/workshop/java/index.html
Seeing is believing...
/Jocke