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NSI Loses Records
ttyler sent us a link to a little techweb bit talking about
NSI Losing Records
from the DNS. Supposedly as many as 18,000. Mentions
a nice conspiracy theory that this is a plot to promote
their new registration service before they lose their
monopoly in the not so distant future.
Have several NSI-equivalents. Each one has its own public key. Each one "signs" its records, so that we can distribute the records without relying on a centralized server.
When a DNS server has several conflicting records, majority rules.
There ya go.
This is appropriate. A recent story run talks about how people are registering tens of thousands of domains, which then get held for several months. The people who register the domains don't actually pay for them unless they get a buyer for the domain, the effect of which is tens of thousands of domain names being tyed up with no one paying for them. NSI needs to crack down on this behavior and if this record wipe was part of that, more power to them.
I guess this is related..
anyoneelse have problems getting to www.stampede.org? I can ping them, and I can get to http://209.81.8.249 but not their name.
or if I do get to stampede.org...it'll ask me to save index.html instead of opening it...weird
. . . but the site is not http 1.0/1.1 compliant.
That's all.
No conspiracy. No internic cloak and dagger.
No umberella man. No whisp of smoke by the
knoll.
Just some fucked up service on a port.
Leave it alone.
The problem with them is that they don't know how to set up a web server. Their main page is called "index.html" and DOES contain PHP code, and in fact returns a MIME type of "x-httpd-php3" (which is correct), but their web server apparently doesn't contain a PHP parser or something. Pretty sad performance from a company whose main homepage says:
"Stampede Linux is an innovative, new approach to Linux distributions. We wanted a distribution that was fast, easy for the new user, and
awesome for the power user. So, we decided to create Stampede."
Would YOU trust a *distribution* from a company that can't even follow a few simple directions on how to add PHP support to Apache 1.3.3? Ha.
I heard from a friend of mine that they were going to do this. I guess they did. The TechWeb article looks to be only partially informed. I guess it's true about a little knowledge being dangerous.
>> Please grow up
EXCUSE THE FUCK OUTTA ME, but what was immature
about the foregoing posts? They noted a problem,
discussed, analyzed it, contrasted two theories,
and had a bit of fun about the Kennedy Assassination.
What the fuck is with the "Please grow up" comment?
Your ass must be so tight that you shit diamonds.
Damn, skippy.
Some of them belonged to people who pay for all the domains they register.
In some cases, the PREVIOUS owner of the domain didn't pay for it. InterNIC deleted it, somebody else registered it, then InterNIC deleted it AGAIN.
Many legitimate domains that were deleted in this way.
If InterNIC was required to reveal historical registration info, class action lawyers would go to town...
You bastards!
This article doesn't make any sense.
First there is the unsubstantiated claim from "ISPs" that "as many as 18,000 names were lost". What does "lost" mean? And "heaps of email" were undeliverable? How much is a "heap"??
The response from NSI says that they are targetting domain squatters, which certainly implies that this was intentional, and nothing was "lost". And I'm fairly certain that NSI cannot simply drop domain names held by paying customers.
So my conclusion is that the "ISPs" who are complaining are domain name squatters who've been booted from the database, and probably little or no email was undeliverable, since none of the dropped domains had been paid for.
Here's a small sample of the domains that were deleted between February 28 and March 3, with creation date, domain name, handle, administrative contact.
These are just the most obvious examples, registered after Feb 20 and deleted a few days later (!)... You can hardly argue that these domains were deleted for non-payment.
There are plenty of other examples of domains created in early February that were also deleted, and some (less clear-cut that were created in January).
Some of these have already been reregistered, in some cases by a different administrative contact.
Like I said, if class-action lawyers got their hands on InterNIC's records...
02-21-1999|BANKINGINDUSTRY.COM |BANKINGINDUSTRY3-DOM |IC1095
02-23-1999|INSTANTLOTTO.COM |INSTANTLOTTO7-DOM |IR148-ORG
02-23-1999|RACINGBETS.COM |RACINGBETS6-DOM |IR148-ORG
02-23-1999|PLAGUES.COM |PLAGUES6-DOM |JG15747
02-20-1999|ADSERVERS.COM |ADSERVERS5-DOM |MW7452
02-23-1999|SEXUALHARRASSMENT.COM |SEXUALHARRASSMENT3-DOM |RM15192
02-23-1999|HOSTAGES.COM |HOSTAGES4-DOM |SD1720
02-20-1999|OFFENDER.COM |OFFENDER4-DOM |SD1720
02-22-1999|1014.COM |1014-N2-DOM |SR7190
02-23-1999|SHOULD.COM |SHOULD8-DOM |SW6941
02-23-1999|XNX.COM |XNX10-DOM |SW6941
02-21-1999|SYMPATHETIC.COM |SYMPATHETIC7-DOM |WR48
Anyone know of any other undocumented WHOIS commands? Try this...
whois dump yahoo.com
Woo.. lots of info. Anyone know any other undocumented features?
... jason
Dude, you are a moron.
People have legitimate complaints, and you have some nerve jumping to conclusions and being "fairly certain" about something you are entirely uninformed about.
Come on, there's nothing wiped out!
I can't believe internic has no such thing as
- Database of deleted accounts
- Database of known squatters
- Backups
>> I'm sorry if you misunderstood
>> who I was calling immature.
Not half as sorry as I'm gonna be for hitting
you with this here clue stick.
TWACK!!
Feel better? See, it's called irony. It's often
used by adults to communicate adult ideas.
Immature? Shhheesh. Sorry I had to hit you
so hard.
(This is a repost; the previous one was
dropped evidently.)
I am inclined to side with the original poster.
I think we should be cautious about a company
that does not have at least a minimal web
presence.
After all:
* it directly relates to computing,
* they didn't rely on others for this web page; it's their own, AND
* most importantly, where's customer support? I would be concerned about investing in software from a company that's still having trouble getting their act together for support.
Obviously they know how to make a web page.
The point is that they might not be there when
you need them.
So I think your "Grow up" comments missed the point.
In that case, the original domain owner can't get it back, even if the domain was fully paid for. The best they can hope for is to get their $70 refunded.
NSI is an evil monopoly. If they screw up, you have no recourse.
InterNIC gives you 30 days of use of the domain from the day they send out the invoice before deactivating the domain name, then 30 days after they mail you a deactivation notice before they delete the domain (which then makes it available for use again)
So basically, 2-3 months, then you can just go re-register it again.
NSI should allow any and all TLDs, however, no one can own a TLD (just like no one owns .com). Applicants must still register domains of the form "domain.TLD", i.e. domainname + TLD. Both parts are required for registration. The TLD itself forever remains free and available for all to use and belongs to no one. This eliminates squatting since one would have to spend infinite money to snarf all possible combinations of a domain name. So, apple.com is taken? What's a farmer to do? Try apple.farms or apple.growers or apples.galore. Squatters are gone and all domains are forever available to everyone. Everyone is happy. As for how difficult it would be from a tech POV to handle all these new TLDs? It would be no worse than how everything within .com is currently handled.
I can still find the record in whois but the DNS can't find it. This was a valid, PAID for name over a year old. What the hell's up with these 'mini gods'? I say blast 'em off the net and come up with a more competative 'network solution'. This is a great argument against ANY monopoly.
:P
Ten bucks a year ought to be enough to maintain a database record.
ptui
They promise 48hr replys and domain registry under a week. I waited 4 months for them to register my domain! And then, I purchased hosting at a high end service (SONET lines and cray servers) because my site is based on big bulky downloads and lots of super fancy graphics (for my business). Now two months later I am still waiting for the domain info to change so that the transfer can complete. Total cost so far because the internic is full of shit heads: $2000+! I HATE THEM! I'LL STILL CHOOSE THE COMPETITION EVEN IF THEY BELIEVE VACUUME CLEANERS RULE THE EARTH AND THAT COMPUTERS CAUSE CANCER IN YOUR FEET! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!
another one is if you type whois 'server DNSSERVERID'
it used to give you up to 255 hosts, now it'll only
tell you 10 or so whats on that server....kinda useful..
So you're saying that InterNIC kicked out >18,000 *paying customers*? Sorry, I don't buy it. I don't buy that they kicked out even one paying customer, because there would be hell to pay, and it wouldn't just be one oddball unsubstantiated news piece.
The news piece seemed to very carefully sidestep the issue of whether any paying customers were affected. I can only assume that this is because there were none, since otherwise it would be real news.
What happened to me (and two other people I know):
I register a domain in JANUARY; I get a ticket from their autoresponder.
I wait two weeks (thinking they were very busy) and email them (including the ticket number) asking what's taking so long - I get no reply.
I email two more times (next two weeks) asking why the domain is taking so long. Still no answer.
I try calling them at the phone # provided... busy signals/ permahold each time.
I email them, and send a nasty letter to their "complaints" department (always including the ticket number) - STILL no response.
A friend of mine (in the same boat as me) gets up at 4:00 AM so that he can call them as soon as they open - he manages to get a real, live person, and asks them what the hell is going on.. they say "oops, I guess we lost the application - re-submit it, but send it directly to this address, instead of the regular one."
My friend does this, and gets his domain name in 20 minutes! He gives me the "magic" address, and I get my domain name in less than 10 minutes.
I can't believe that they're SOOOOOOO busy as to lose 18,000 domain names, but it STILL only takes them 10 minutes to OK the "resubmission"
It's complete bullshit - the sooner they're kicked out the better.
So, the original criticism was that those who
demand perfection are immature. Now, we
no longer hold to that, and instead suggest
that they are "insane".
Tell me, are IT officers, whose job it is to
assure quality--are they "insane". Or "immature".
You need some more rope, there, hanging boy?
Give it up. You said something stupid when
criticizin' other for being stupid.
Own up to it--a sign of "maturity" and "sanity"
They not only "lost" my domain app (after issuing a ticket number) they refused to respond to my emails and letters for over a month.
And in case you STILL need a clue-stick, *THEY ARE A MONOPOLY* - there is nobody to whom hell could be paid. This is why it's such a bitch to deal with them.
It's so hard to make heads or tails of what they're talking about. I think it'd be best just to wait till wired.com or news.com or SOMEONE writes an article that actually explains the damn thing.
I do know that Internic just suck lately though. A client of my company paid for her domain name months ago and it suddenly got put on hold on friday. She called and complained and they said "oh we lost your payment (that they had already processed) the name will be working today" and it wasn't till monday. If it was a personal domain that would be pathetic but somewhat tolerable maybe but this was someone's livelihood. Ridiculous.
If this did happen to thousands of people who paid Internic 70$ each this story should be a lot bigger by now though wouldn't you think? The buy.com monitor story was all over in no time and that only affected 1400 people.
These guys are obviously incapable of handling there job. I know this has been suggested before, but why not let the folks who really know what they're doing handle domain names? Eventually, domain names are going to become a commodity anyway--do USPS charge extra for someone to have a house number? I realize that the domain name is an added layer of abstraction, but eventually people are going to get sick of these hassles and demand something more convenient. Open competition will allow someone to offer something easier--hopefully.
slashdot broke my sig
Does NSI's current contract stipulate who will be authorized to take over the root master database and start distributing root zone caches in case NSI would fail to handle its most critical tasks, either due to its own fault or because of another body (say, a terrorist group or a government) beginning to interfere with NSI operations? Are there procedures in place for this?
I'm not an AlterNIC fan, largely because of their attempt to impersonate the InterNIC a few years ago, but also because I don't think they provide a solution to the actual problems that exist with the DNS today. Creating a new set of TLDs besides the existing ones, without telling where each kind of company belongs, will probably result in more domain squatting, not less. If companies cannot stand seeing their beloved trademarks being used in .ORG and .NET, imagine what life will be like when they have ten additional TLDs to worry about.
The article being the focus of this thread briefly mentioned the IANA taking over domain registration after NSI's contract has expired. While I haven't educated myself about IANA's plans, it does have a promising ring to it.
I'd be interested in working out alternative name service arrangements, perhaps with actual implementations, to see what may work in the future. That includes registration procedures and legal arrangements, as well as TLD allocation and use. Would anybody else?
According to Eric Allman recently, all the root name servers require open source implementations, i.e. BIND. He wasn't sure though whether they required on-site source also for their operating systems. How many of them run Linux..?
The article makes it sound like they deliberately dropped the domains (supposedly to combat domain squatting). Is this legal?
There was an alternate DNS scheme happening some time ago. Does anybody have info on this? It occurs to me that any centralized naming system (no matter who runs it) is a potential weakness for a supposedly decentralized, indestructable network. It also occurs to me that Mozilla is in a position to force broad acceptance of an alternate DNS just by including support by default. Something to think about.
It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail. - Abraham Maslow
Alternic is a true alternative DNS registry. Just tell your machine to use alternic as a nameserver and you're up and running. That Internic has a monopoly on domain registration is just by convention. If everyone switched to alternic in droves, NSI would quickly find itself useless.
Netscape's "Smart Browsing" feature is a quasi-name server. If you type "foobar" in the location bar it will try http://www.foobar.com/. It you type "Whitehouse", it now takes you to http://www.whitehouse.gov/ much to the chagrin of whitehouse.com (a porno site), who used to get directed to. If netscape were to set up a true DNS registry of its own, supporting many new TLDs, and made it the default name server on its browser (falling back to conventional DNS if a lookup fails) it could effectively take over a large percentage of Internic's business.
From what I've been able to gather, the affected domains were all due up for renewal sometime in March. It has nothing to do with delinquent squatters.
"Lost" means deleted. The domains were removed from the InterNIC database and left as undelegated. "Heaps" of e-mail were lost. If 18,000 domains were deleted, what do you think happens to all of the e-mail destined to addresses at those domains? The e-mail bounces. I think "heaps" is an accurate description.
Just because the NSI said they were "targeting" squatters doesn't mean that's what really happened. From what I've been able to gather, most (if not all) of the domains were being held by paying customers, and most (if not all) of the domains were due for (re?)payment in March. They may have been targeting squatters, but they hit quite a lot more. And you're right, the InterNIC shouldn't be able to just drop paid domains. That doesn't mean it can't happen by accident, or on purpose (but illegally).
Your "conclusion" is based upon the tiniest bit of information given to you in the article. I assure you there's quite a lot more to it than that.
It seems that, while InterNIC claims this was an attempt to prune the delinquant squatters, most of the domains dropped were those that were due up for payment (or repayment) during the month of March. Rumor has it that an additional 7k domains were lost the following monday night bringing the total to 25k.
To make matters worse, InterNIC seems to be telling people that they need to re-register their lost domains with WorldNIC instead of InterNIC (at $119 instead of $70). Can we say "motive"? I know of several people that have had their lost domains re-registered by someone *else*. Talk about a bad day...
Another interesting article.
The answer is pretty simple - pay for the name when you register it. But as a defendant in the Porsche lawsuit who did nothing more than secure a reasonable name for a client I can tell you it doesn't take much for them to label you as a "cyber-squatter". Porsche didn't even bother to ask if I'd give up the name, just publicly labeled me a pirate. Defend your name? Sure, just take your lawyer to Virginia for a few weeks.
The revolution will NOT be televised.
According to the version 4.0 registration template, section B:
4) Payment: Payment is due to Network Solutions within thirty (30) days from the date of the invoice.
So, it seems entirely possible to 'squat' on a pile of names for 30 days, then pay for the ones you've re-sold and let the rest expire.
The article is very unclear about which domains were deleted, but if it was just ones that were more than 30 days overdue on payment, that's fine with me. I also wouldn't mind Internic moving to a prepayment-required system, or like most businesses where a corporate customer (like an ISP) could get a credit account if they submitted appropriate financial records and signed a "no squatting" agreement.
Unlike some people, I've never had a real problem with Internic (I've registered 4 domains in the last few years).
Microsoft could get some bright idea for IE, and "integrate" the DNS into IE...
InThane
The site was working fine, someone has changed something recently. I'm glad to see the world is still full of perfectionists that never make mistakes, but are more than glad to point out the mistakes made by others.
Please grow up.
According to the report, the names were dumped as a move against cyber-squatters. As much as I agree that something needs to be done about cyber-squatters - I don't think it's NSI's responsibility to dump a paid domain name without any compensation or consideration to the owners.
I would like to see more gTLDs added, AlterNIC was headed in the right direction. I can also see where too many would make things difficult.
My reply was to the Anonymous Coward that posted - "Would YOU trust a *distribution* from a company that can't even follow a few simple directions on how to add PHP support to Apache 1.3.3? Ha."
I'm sorry if you misunderstood who I was calling immature.
I find it very hard to downgrade an entire project based on one (probably small) mistake created by one or two individuals. There is no way of knowing what caused the problem - granted that human error is more than likely.
The project is in it's development stages and anyone who expects perfection is insane.
I don't know when the problem started, but it's been fixed.
I'm told that in the past, they didn't send out bills for months, but I'm less certain of this.
So it is possible to register a bunch of domain names for "free" for a while. My understanding is that this is how squatters work.
Search 2010 Gen Con events
That explains some of the crap I've had to deal with... their complaints department must be so overrun that the people in charge of reviewing .edu submissions must be busy... Pain in the neck, it is.
Alternic is the one I think you mean.
My current home-lan's DNS points to alternic servers.
--
The Internet is the Suppository of All Knowledge. You get it in the end.
I thought that NSI was having database problems again, as that's happened in the past.
--jon. Postel is dead. May we all mourn his, and our, loss.
To register a name with the InterNIC, you have to cough up the registration fee for two years up front. These "squatters" must have paid for their domains, so there's no way that this was right for NSI to do. I'm afraid I must agree with the conspiracy theory.
Believe nothing, not even if I say it, if it violates your sense of reason -- Buddha
That's because they have their web server misconfigured... the page is a php3 script that the server isn't parsing.
telnet stamped.org 80
Trying 209.81.8.249...
Connected to stampede.org.
Escape character is '^]'.
GET /
Stampede Linux is an innovative, new approach to Linux distributions. We wanted a distribution
that was fast, easy for the new user, and awesome for the power user. So, we decided to create
Stampede.
[snip]
//_Stryker
grrrr.... I put Plain Old Text expecting it to take care of the html and turn it into Text... guess it isn't that sophisticated... anyways, the previous replay _should_ have shown the php3 markup that was in the page. but you get the basic idea
re: "..an alternate DNS scheme happening some time ago. Does anybody have info on this? "
There have been attempts to institute alternate systems in the past, and still are. One of which I am aware is alternic. They can be found at:
http://www.alternic.net/
Good Point about the inherent weakness of centralisation in the naming system.
A workable naming system is needed, but the prime directive behind the internet was supposed to be rerouting around damaged (incinerated) nodes. It is a convenience to have a domain naming system that is consistent across all parts of the net, but only a convenience.
But, if that is the way it is, then the "master" host file for registration definitely should be stored in more than one place.
My point is that a single domain naming system is not inherently evil, just a matter of programming convenience. And if we use it the host list must be in more than one place, and arranged so that an orderly failover can occur should the primary location go down.
Netscape might not jump on the idea of supporting an alternate dns scheme enthusiastically, given their current situation, but mozilla.org might be interested.
But is the demand there? Is it politically feasable without effort-damaging fallout? Those are the larger questions.
--vead
Too complicated, though neat idea.
The problem is DNS itself. Just like the IP structure.. the IANA says who gets what, but the don't enforce it.. that's up to the networks themselves. The IANA is just making it work.. and this doesn't represent a real problem, because numbers are numbers.. there is little prestige in numbers... especially because nobody sees them. The IANA handles logistics. How many are left. Where did they go. How do we effectively manage them?
The DNS system, on the other hand, has too much commercial weight attached to it.
To me, as an administrator, when the net was young, DNS meant a way to not have to type in bloody addresses all the time. It WASN'T the prime way to locate things. That was through other databases.....
We refer to things by name, by URL... companies percieve that URL's = money. You can't OWN a domain! You can't OWN an IP address! The solution is one of databases. one to locate companies. One to locate services. One to relate them together. Another, to locate the physical servers or logical services that run them.
Get hte picture? The guts get dirty, and the outsides are clean.
The problem, also, is that you can't OWN a domain.
The registration fee wasn't for purchase, it was to pay the cost of running the registration service, which used to be funded by the US Govt.
I liked the proposal in the past for people who wanted to run registrations for different TLD's. There were technical requirements.... like you had to have the $$$ to support the registry... the infrastructure....
basically you had to be serious.
I wouldn't want their job.
Everyone is bitching about how they are running the InterNIC....
Okay.
Someone please tell me what they SHOULD be doing.
Class action law suits? Jeesus christ.. nobody has these fights about IP addresses.... and they are run the same way.
DOWN WITH THE IANA! THEY ARE A MONOPOLY! BOO! HISS! BAH!
The root nameservers do NOT have to run the way they do now.. and if the ocmpany trusted with managing the registrations can't do it, the net will pick another. I think people underestimate the scale of this project...
How about we come up with a solution *BEFORE* we blast them off the net?
.ca domain doesn't have this problem... you want a domain? It has to directly relate to your company/organization/person and there are rules about that. Why? To keep it fair.. not to squash copyright. Joe's fruit stand can't register fruit.ca, because it doesn't reflect joe. joesfruit.bc.ca works, because it reflects certain information. People might say it's a little restrictive.. but there is NO SCRAPPING YET! You can't lie about who you are and what domain you want without committing some act of fraud.. and so it should be! You can use the net.. big brother doesn't have to see you.. but if you want to be a permanent fixture... don't the networks involved desrve to know who you are?
/etc/hosts files... people should try to comprehend the vast size and nature of the DNS system. Everyone takes it for granted.. Go *learn* something about the protocols involved and the history of the net before judging so harshly.
Argument against monopoly?
Geesus FRIG!
People....
InterNIC is not a monoploy.. no more than IANA is a monopoly, no more than the Internet itself is a monopoly. We choose to use them by convention. It's unfortunate the way things are turning out... but the only thing that gives them *ANY* power is the fact that every nameserver out there has *by admin-configured choice* a list of root nameservers that get their info from InterNIC.
Just as the IP structure of the internet only works because everyone cooperates... so works DNS.
The 'Internet' is really a bucketload of different, private and public networks that just happen to be using the same protocols and just happen to have all agreed on an addressing scheme that lets them co-exist when they all hook up to each other.
You know.. the
We have allowed the domain name to become the single identifier of a net presence.. that is not how it should be at all.
Is there a better solution? I think this is the best approach we have *SO FAR*.
Is there another way? Probably.. but this is all we have. We used to use shared