NSI Claims whois Database is Proprietary

phred writes "In yet another sign of advanced corporate megalomania, Chris Clough, a spokesman for Network Solutions, Inc., is quoted in an ABC News online story as claiming that the whois database is a proprietary product of NSI and is being provided to the net as a "community service." (This item first noted Tomalak's Realm)." And I for one am oh-so-pleased that NSI is using their property to Spam us with commercials about NSI so that they can protect their butts when they lose their monopoly.

Comments

This is not a problem.

[mhm23x3]

Hamilton 97 disables whois by default. You can use the ham-find command to seach Hamilton's own database of domain listings.

Team Hamilton has been pushing other OSes to do this for years, and no one listened. Now look what's happened. Not like we didn't warn you.

NSI is pushing their luck

[Rocky Mudbutt]

Is it time to start an FSF/Opensource NIC? The technology is not difficult, it is the support of the vast hordes of non-technical (clue-impaired) users requesting their "stupidname.com" which are providing NSI with their windfall, headaches, and raison d'etre. Supporting the technically competent, with their corresponding lower support costs; might make a viable non-profit company.

Of course, there is always the renegade DNS route. To make it take off and stick, one would need superior technology, a strategy that would embrace and superceed the BIND cartels jugular embrace of the Internet name space, and a desire for an alternative which can provide both alternate and backward compatible name space.

I would think the non-North American entities who are at the mercy of NSI for Global Top Level Domain Names could agree on an LDAP name system that makes NSI obsolete, and removes the North American legal system and copyright law from what is clearly a Universal Name Registrar.

This is not a new debate. The control of the Internet has long been a US Government/Academia/Military/Commercial playground. What is needed in the 21st century will be an abstraction away from the cultural straightjacket that has been so widely forcefed to the world as "technology". I would hope to hear that the other 90% of the world's population have a say in how names are fairly allocated, and we would all benefit from a broader perspective.

NSI sells mailing lists as well..

[MikeM]

Actually, we don't sell it. That spam (snail mail and otherwise) is a result of the whois and zone files being publicly available. There are companies out there who are attempting to sell CDs with all of the whois data on it.

(no comment on the proprietary whois stuff)

A solution?

[tgd]

Here's a thought. Let NSI do whatever they damn well please. When ICANN takes over the root nameservers, simply give the other registration services that are freely providing their databases priority in the root servers. Ie, Microsoft registers microsoft.com with NSI, they better hope (and pressure) NSI to keep all the whois information completely and 100% free, or someone else will register microsoft.com with another registrar who is freely sharing information. (Linus website anyone?) ;)

In all seriousness though, if they want to claim the information is propriatary, then ICANN can't exactly integrate the information into the root servers, can they?

NSI is pushing their luck

[Dredd13]

At the same time, there are a few people from the NANOG mailing list, myself included, who are trying to work up a "secure whois" RFC, one which would allow people to search the whois database, but either (a) after authenticating, so that whois-db-harvesters can be stopped, or (b) providing limited information for a select quantity of requests per day if the request is unauthenticated.

Any open solution should also be prepared to incorporate that as well, since that is the "shield" that NSI hides behind these days, is protecting themselves from the harvesters, domain-squatters, etc.

I was wondering the same thing...

[Anonymous Coward]

The only reason NSI has that much power is becase we all cooperate volunteerily by pointing our name server software exclusively at their root servers. Anyone out there can set up a root server (I and a friend did it once to see what would be involved. Took about 2 hours to figure everything out and create a .linux domain that 2 machines in the whole wild world could see.)

The way current DNS software works, you DO have to be careful not to pollute anyone else's root servers, but anyone out there with a UNIX box and a dedicated connection could redefine the entire internet however they wanted to for anyone who cared to point their name servers to the new root servers.

Note that this has been attempted in the past (Do your research on the alternic and others) but they did not really have a lot of support and if I recall correctly some of them tried a silly stunt or two that was bad judgement at its worst.

Anyway, it can be done and there's an increasing need for it to be done. If anyone comes up with something, I'll be happy to point my DNS at them.

Freely available to all

[gordoni]

Under the terms of the original contract between the NSF and Network Solutions (Awardee's Proposal Q.1):

"the information we collect and dispense will be freely available to all."

That said, the complete legal situation is faily complicated. My understanding of it is as follows. The registration database is probably capable of being copyrighted, however such a copyright would be a thin copyright that would not prevent others constructing a new database from facts contained in the original database. If this is the case, Network Solutions probably owns this copyright, but has failed in its contractual duty to inform the NSF of its claim of copyright in it's annual report (I discovered this by filing a FOIA request). To keep ownership of the database copyright upon termination of the contract, Network Solutions would have to pay 1-3% of the databases fair market value to the government. For the duration of the contract, Network Solutions is required to make the database freely available. The NSF can also obtain a copy of the database including on termination of the contract, but has not made such a request.

ha so where are you guys?

[fishbowl]

C'mon, I know you read slashdot!

I'm talking to YOU, the guy who worked for Internic back in the hippie days and now works for NetSol getting that phat biweekly paycheck!

I don't fault you for selling out and cashing in, but I sure would enjoy hearing about your experiences!

(Or has it *been* an experience?) I wonder. Maybe you just sold out, and all my fairytale romantic notions of the net need to fade away along with all the other delusions.

Dunno about you. But I'm sick of them.

[Chas]

I don't know about the rest of you. But THIS little gem appeared in my mailbox a couple days ago. NSI is getting REALLY desperate.

Dear Valued Customer:

This is to inform you that changes are taking place at Network Solutions' Web site.

When you visit us at www.networksolutions.com or rs.internic.net, you'll notice that we have a new look. But our look isn't all we've changed. We've brought all of our products, services, and partner informational links together in one, simple, easy to use Web site.

Our home page has been redesigned to help you easily find the information, services, and tools you need to establish and maintain your Internet presence. We have simplified the user interface, instructions, and help for registering or reserving a new Web address (domain name). Our new "Make Changes" section enables you to quickly find the information needed to update your Web address information. And with the addition of new products and services, Network Solutions can help you easily add value to your Web experience. As always, if you have registered your domain name(s) through one of Network Solutions' Premier program members, you may also contact them for additional products and services.

Along with our recent doubling of capacity, this seamless integration of our Web sites is yet another way we are continually working to serve you. Whether you type in www.networksolutions.com or rs.internic.net, you'll end up at the right place. Network Solutions - the dot com peopleTM - is your one-stop shop for your Internet presence.

We encourage you to visit us at www.networksolutions.com and learn about more ways to maximize your presence on the Internet!

Sincerely,

Charles A. Gomes
Vice President, Customer Programs

NOTE: This message is being sent only to the main/administrative contact for your Web address (domain name). It is for notification purposes only. If you have any questions or comments, please contact us via our Web site.

Anyone else smell trapped animal?


Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!

Misunderstanding the top of the Internet

[shani]

I think you misunderstand the relationship between the various components here.

First, there is NSI's database, which contains information, such as your mailing address and so on, in addition to domain names and information (DNS server IP's and whatnow).

Second, there is the whois server. The web page which was recently changed only provided a nice, easy interface to the whois mechanism, AFIAK. Whois is an Internet standard, defined in RFC 954. It is a simple TCP/IP query/response protocol to find out information about Internet objects (networks, hosts, etc). NSI's whois server is generated by a selective dump of their registration database (leaving out credit card numbers, for instance).

And third, there is the DNS hierarchy. This includes a set of root servers, named 'A' through 'L' (I believe those are all that exist right now) in order to keep the names as short as possible, so they can fit in a single UDP packet (ick). These are distributed throughout the planet, with only one being run by NSI. NSI's role is to provide the zone file to the other root name servers. They do this by dumping the appropriate data from their database, as well as combining reverse addresses and other data from non-NSI top-level-domains (.mil, .gov, .uk, .ch, .de, etc).

With the ICANN switch, I'm pretty sure that NSI still generates the zone file for .com, but the other sources all send their zone files straight to ICANN. This should also allow the creation of additional top-level-domains, such as .www, .nom, and .xxx (my personal favorite).

Govt wants this

[Anonymous Coward]

Some years back, the Supreme Court ruled that lists themselves cannot be copyrighted, only the formatting could. This particular case involved the phone books, and led to phone directories on CD rom.

WIPO wants to make lists copyrightable by treaty, which trumps laws and court rulings.

WIPO has the effect of also copyrighting court proceedings, laws, membership lists of public orgs, all sorts of things.

WIPO will also copyright the NSI list. If you don't like it, call Congress. (I think you'll find the mail spool linked to /dev/null).

Freely available to all

[gordoni]

Nope, a FOIA request won't work, it's already been tried...

In responding to a FOIA request submitted by Corsearch in 1996 requesting a copy of the domain name database (NSF FOIA No. 96-090 Request), the NSF claimed (NSF FOIA No. 96-090 Response):

"NSF does not possess or control the domain name database ..."

An administrative appeal of this decision was made (NSF FOIA No. 96-090 Appeal). This appeal was rejected. The words "possess" and "control" are being used here in the context of the Freedom of Information Act to determine if the database is an "agency record", and not in respect of claims to ownership of intellectual property. These are the same terms used in the FLITE case (Baizer v. Department of the Air Force, 887 F. Supp. 225 (N.D. Cal. 1995). The FLITE decision has been criticized for its "broad assertion of an exemption from FOIA for 'library' materials, and its questionable use of legal precedent" ( Supreme Court Decisions in FLITE database, Information Policy Notes, Taxpayers Assets Project). The Flite decision draws upon the Supreme Court decision in Department of Justice v. Tax Analysts, 492 US 136 (1989).

So, the NSF has the right to obtain a copy of the database from Network Solutions, but because the NSF has not chosen to obtain the database, it is not possible to obtain the database from the NSF under the FOIA. And even if the NSF did have a copy of the database, it is not clear, in the light of the FLITE decision, whether the NSF would be required to make the database available under the FOIA.

ICANN guilty of smearing with bullshit FUD

[igjeff]

Actually, they *are*, at least in some ways, restricting access to the whois database through whois client connections.

Try some sort of keyword search and see how many entries return...much fewer than there used to be.

Try to show the domains that have you listed as a contact...oh, you can only get the first 50 that way?

Try to find information about the availability of the domain in the DNS servers...oh, they took the On Hold status off of that return as well.

Slowly, but surely, NSI *is* restricting access...both through their website, *and* through the whois client.

The addition is the redirect from www.internic.net to www.networksolutions.com, while not impairing functionality in an of itself, sets a *VERY* dangerous precedent and course for NSI. Essentially, by putting that redirect in, if its not challenged, then NSI can claim that you register information via NSI's website and via NSI, not necessarily through the InterNIC, which NSI just happens to be providing services to. If they are allowed to assert that concept, what happens when the government or ICANN decides to either put another company in charge of interNIC, or open it up so that multiple companies have equal access to it (through whatever mechanism)? NSI can then claim that these domain names are registered through them, are their Intellectual Property, and you can't make changes via another company, whether they are now part or all of the InterNIC or not!

Jeff

NSI accused of lying

[memra]

Check out this report from a stock market analyst:

We believe that NSOL's management has purposely disseminated misleading information, and failed to disclose material negative information, that has led investors to believe that the expiration of this contract will be postponed or that it can not be entirely and easily terminated. Investors have also been led to believe that even if the contract is terminated, NSOL's business value will continue to grow. These expectations are baseless and false.

They also make another accusation about failing to disclose information.
--
Michael Dillon - E-mail: michael@memra.com

They may be the dot com people, but...

[Gerard Motola]

They're not the dot.com people...

[gtm@gtm gtm]$ whois dot.com
[rs.internic.net]
Dely, Douglas (DD8922) dot.com@IX.NETCOM.COM
810-979-2966 (FAX) 810-979-1434
Dely, Francoise (FD1636) dot.com@IX.NETCOM.COM
810-979-2966 (FAX) 810-979-1434
Dot.Com (DIGITALSEPS-DOM) DIGITALSEPS.COM
Dot.Com Interactive (MEDICALBANK3-DOM) MEDICALBANK.COM
Dot.com (DOTCOMINDIA-DOM) DOTCOMINDIA.COM
Dot.com Distributing (COMDISTRIBUTING-DOM) COMDISTRIBUTING.COM
Haener, Ron (RH12447) dot.com@IX.NETCOM.COM
941-514-7222 (FAX) 941-514-7025
Robert Gordon (DOT2-DOM) DOT.COM
dot.COM Graphics, Inc. (DOTCOMGRAPHICS-DOM) DOTCOMGRAPHICS.COM
dot.com KK (DOTCO-DOM) DOTCO.COM
dot.com dcvelopment, inc. (ACTIVEADS-DOM) ACTIVEADS.COM
dot.com development (DOTCOMDEV-DOM) DOTCOMDEV.COM
dot.com development, inc (ACTIVENEWS-DOM) ACTIVENEWS.COM
dot.com development, inc. (ACTIVETIME-DOM) ACTIVETIME.COM
dot.com development, inc. (ACTIVETRACK-DOM) ACTIVETRACK.COM
dot.com development, inc. (ACTIVE-ADS-DOM) ACTIVE-ADS.COM
dot.com development, inc. (BELLATLANTICSUCKS4-DOM) BELLATLANTICSUCKS.COM

To single out one record, look it up with "!xxx", where xxx is the
handle, shown in parenthesis following the name, which comes first.

The InterNIC Registration Services database contains ONLY
non-military and non-US Government Domains and contacts.
Other associated whois servers:
American Registry for Internet Numbers - whois.arin.net
European IP Address Allocations - whois.ripe.net
Asia Pacific IP Address Allocations - whois.apnic.net
US Military - whois.nic.mil
US Government - whois.nic.gov
[gtm@gtm gtm]$ whois dot2-dom
[rs.internic.net]

Registrant:
Robert Gordon (DOT2-DOM)
713 Vanguard
Austin, TX 78734

Domain Name: DOT.COM

Administrative Contact:
Wenzel, George (GW23) rt_tech@REALTIME.NET
(512) 451-0046
Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Gustwick, Bob (BG99) rt_tech@REALTIME.NET
(512) 451-0046 (FAX) (512) 459-3858

Record last updated on 29-Jun-94.
Database last updated on 28-Mar-99 21:44:09 EST.

Domain servers in listed order:

NS.REALTIME.NET 205.238.128.39
NS2.REALTIME.NET 205.238.128.42


The InterNIC Registration Services database contains ONLY
non-military and non-US Government Domains and contacts.
Other associated whois servers:
American Registry for Internet Numbers - whois.arin.net
European IP Address Allocations - whois.ripe.net
Asia Pacific IP Address Allocations - whois.apnic.net
US Military - whois.nic.mil
US Government - whois.nic.gov