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Kevin Mitnick Speaks
Signal 11
writes "Kevin grants a rare interview with Forbes Reporter
Adam L. Penenberg and blames the media frenzy surrounding
the now infamous hacker squarely on John Markoff of the
New York Times. More info about Kevin Mitnick.
"
Kevin Mitnik was caught and sentenced one year in 1989. Note that he wasn't cracking a porn site to get images for free ; he has stolen a computer-security system from DEC.
He was freed. And then he cracked systems again. And he didn't crack a journal web site to get articles for free. He cracked the machine of a "security expert". And he had no longer the "please he is a young boy, he didn't realize" excuse: he was 31.
Maybe what's happened is unfair to him, but he has really asked for trouble. People rarely let you do twice the same mistake.
Now maybe it will be really unfair, since because of all the cretinous "Free Kevin" advocates and media coverage, he has become a symbol. Now there is a real incentive for the governement or the judge to make an example (scapegoat) of him for all the wannabes.
(but again he made the mistake of doing twice the same mistake).
...but not for the reason many others are. I see Kevin as having paid MUCH greater a price that he ever should have been required to.
By holding him in such a blatantly illegal fashion for so long, they have hurt themselves worse than Mitnick ever could have. Now there are 100s (or more) of crackers out there that are just waiting to have their day. Mitnick has become a martyr in the classical sense, inciting others to anger and hatred towards our "moral guardians".
I get sick of hearing about it because for some reason, killing someone is less of a crime than knowing technology and using it in a way the government doesn't like. It makes me ill to know what kind of state we are in
If anybody has a case against the gov't for due process it's Mitnick. He says he won't be able to get a job when he gets out, but I'm sure he can live off settlement money from the very large lawsuit he should bring on.
Oh well. Here's to hoping it never happens again.
Mitnik broke the law and stole credit card numbers and other things from computer systems. He is a criminal, not a hero. Why must people let politics turn criminals into heroes and ignore the law? Cases in point: Jack Kavorkian and Bill Clinton. Here's a thought: let's start enforcing the law equally in this country and leave politics out of the process. A radical idea, I know...
Disclaimer: I believe Mitnick is a criminal.
But, people keep forgetting that law is very relative. Mr. Clinton did nothing different than just about every other american president, lying under oath, having extra-marital sex, etc. Kevorkian had people COMING to him to ask him to kill them, it's not like he had a grudge against any of these people, he was doing them a favor, despite your moral dilemma with it.
The fact of the matter is, is that the law doesn't do a whole lot to protect the community from the criminals, it ends up doing more to protect the criminals from themselves.
Mitnick's sentence would be better served if he were to write a paper describing how he performed the crimes itself for the betterment of security in general. Then, he, and the law, would be serving those would were done harm, instead of putting a geek in the same room as 3 or 4 "lifers".
Bill Clinton would be serving the community by apologizing for his actions, as it is only instictive for someone in power to disavow any knowledge of wrongdoing. He has already done this and I think the fact that he's going to have to live with Ms. Lewinsky and the actions surrounding it down will be more than enough punishment.
Dr. Kevorkian, to the best of my knowledge, did nothing wrong. He did a favor to people who were going to die suffering, nothing more than shooting a crippled horse dead. Even better as a matter of fact, because the horse can't say "please kill me".
People just do not question the law enough in this country, and it's a serious problem. It constantly has to be a black and white issue, when it's always a shade of gray. After all, religious freedom is still a very "new" thing in the history of the world - how do you think people in the past reacted to that before the pilgrims' rebellion?
I could just see someone like you shouting "the anglican faith is the only faith, because it is the law, of course".
-Erik-
Ultimately, I believe the government has done exactly what has set out to do. It probably knew that it didn't have a real hard case, but it pressed on. Why? This simple reason:
----Forbes: What do you plan to do when you get out of prison?
Mitnick: "I don't know, but once I get out of here and get on with the rest of my life, I'll never intentionally violate the law."
----True Purpose? Crush. Utterly and completely crush and break Mitnick. And by crushing him, discourage others. Read the alt.2600 website some time. There are other stories, equally, if not more frightening of crackers getting caught and having their civil liberties violated. Stories of Secret Service witnesses making incredible claims of terrorism because a cracker had a war dialer--and thus this proves he's out to destroy the fabric of society.
FUD, plain and simple. But FUD with a clear purpose. And it works.
I don't advocate cracking. But I understand some of the reasons people do it. It is against the law, so there will be a penalty. However, many of these accused crackers aren't even getting due process. And that is wrong.
"Doubt your doubts and believe your beliefs."
"Doubt your doubts and believe your beliefs." -- Switchfoot, Ode to Chin
Is it our role to continually scorn criminals even after they have paid for their crimes?
Kevin's jail time has exceeded that of most fraud-related charges. The government is abusing his rights. Furthermore, many of his charges are very "trumped up".
This is why people support him. He's paid for his crime, and now is the time to seek his freedom.
-Stu
Mitnik broke the law and stole credit card numbers and other things from computer systems. He is a criminal, not a hero. Why must people let politics turn criminals into heroes and ignore the law? Cases in point: Jack Kavorkian and Bill Clinton. Here's a thought: let's start enforcing the law equally in this country and leave politics out of the process. A radical idea, I know...
-Eric
Yes, Mitnick waived his right to a speedy trial.
Basically, as I understand it, very shortly after being arrested, the government told him that he could either:
1. Go to trial right now, which would not give him and his lawyer(s) time to prepare their defense
or
2. Waive his right, and go to trial at the government's convenience (currently something like four years, without a hint of a trial)
By a million-to-one coincidence, the government was fully prepared to go to court against Mitnick from the minute they arrested him. Pretty funny, eh?
Although what he did was illegal, and he ought to be punished for it, the government really has screwed him royally. My feelings: TRY KEVIN.
And the prohibition on using computers and telecom equipment is outrageous. You can't do _crap_ without using something nowadays. I really can't puzzle out why the government seems to crack down so hard on hackers, as opposed to, say, murderers.
Anyone up for pooling their money for buying an island and forming the country of Linuxania? (or Wrestlemania, I like that....)
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
It's interesting to hear people claim that Mitnick's time was "earned." I fear the day when any of the rest of us is imprisoned without trial for an extended period of time because we could possibly be a threat.
I don't condone illegal activity of any kind. But the system is extremely flawed. Anyone who rationalizes his imprisonment ought to think very carefully. Paranoia kept Mitnick behind bars. This same paranoia could keep any one of us behind bars too.
I don't want to start some silly flamewar, but I must take offense on at least one point: Saying that "it's his fault he's been in jail for 4 years because he keeps asking for additional time for his defense" is like a bunch of witch prosecutors saying "It's her fault she died from the press, she refused to admit she was a witch". Come on, I'm sure he's not exactly _enjoying_ himself in jail. People are so ready to disqualify statements to the effect of "those in authority are commiting an injustice" and believe in "the real world" that they don't think about the situation. Why would he asking for additional time for his defense unless he needed to? (I'm sure the food in prison isn't THAT good!)...
Check my Go-related blog for beginners: DGD
Why must people let politics turn criminals into heroes and ignore the law? Cases in point: Jack Kavorkian and Bill Clinton. Here's a thought: let's start enforcing the law equally in this country and leave politics out of the process. A radical idea, I know...
:/. Although his sexual life is not really something that is important, the fact that he betrayed everyone should be. The president should be someone important. Abit there are few today, Clinton should strive to be a hero (although not a war hero as he has shown before), atleast attempt to have some honor and set of morals, but he is let off the hook. Although I do not think Mitnick is a "hero" per say, he is not "ignoring" the laws. I think 4 years in jail is excessive, although few mention it is partially his own fault, the legal system does have some responsability to get it done.
Its a case, im afraid, of morals failing. As we enter a technological world we depend less and less on others, and more on ourselves. 20 years ago Clinton would have been chewed up and spit out, but here in the "modern" 90's no one gives a hoot that he lied, denied he lied, then lied about the lie
Stan "Myconid" Brinkerhoff
SB.
It's one of the most lurid, poorly written non-fiction accounts of anything I've ever read, despite its theoretically having been written "with" Markoff, who as a New York Times reporter really ought to have done better.
The book is full of technical misrepresentations, irrelevant personal anecdotes (unless you find Shimomura's agonizing over his relationship with John Gilmore's ex-girlfriend somehow germane), and breathless descriptions of "the chase" that rang so false as to make me laugh out loud while reading it on the bus.
Even worse, the whole thing is suffused with this weird kung-fu ethos--"Tsutomu, I respect your skills"--that basically serves as a platform for Shimomura's projection of his own godly talents; and make no mistake, his ego is so bloated as to make the Stolls, Gogganses, and Goldsteins of this world seem like shrinking violets.
I had no great amount of sympathy for Mitnick when I started reading the book. Now I feel sorry for the guy. He committed a crime and deserves to be punished, but not vilified as he has been. Judging from what I read in Takedown, the comments in the interview about "the myth of Kevin Mitnick" are spot on.
spawn_of_yog_sothoth
The point about being denied his rights wasn't about how long he was in custady without trial - people spend years in jail all the time before / durring trials.
He was denied a bail hearing. This is were they can say fine, your a flight risk. Post bond of 5 million dollars. Or for a mass murdering loon, bail is denied. End of story, person goes back to the slamer, pays cash, has friends and family pay, etc.
Kevin never was given this bail hearing, and it's a standard part of the American leagal system. Why? The federal courts have been hevaly regulated by congress, as such have set sentencing and bond rate guides they have to follow. Based on the ACTUAL charges against him, he would have been able to post bond, work on his defence, and easly prove that the majority of the charges against him were bogus or overcharged.
The federal procecutors did what is quite common in organized crime cases - bent the law to be able to procecute. We all love the TV cop shows were the good guys fake some evidence to nap the sick-o-evil crime lord. In this case they "bent" the law quite abit. They let Shimimora - a civilian - use his own set of illigal cellular phone phreaking equipment to track, trace, and record Kevin's calls. Even while Shimmimora was a possible defendet in any case against him when caught as he claimed he had ben hacked.
This would be like the police detective allowing a person who claimed you hit his car in a parking lot, find out where you live, show up with an ak-47, shoot off your locks, kidnap you at gun point and then turn walk into the police station and press charges. Then have the police decline to charge him with possession of an illigal firearm, home invastion, kidnaping, etc. Legaly it's the same.
--
James Michael Keller
"Linux is not our destination, it is simply the open road to tommorow"
Due process has not failed here. Not only is Mitnick a criminal and a punk, but he is directly at fault for his current situation. He waived his right to a speedy trial. He was convicted of crimes previously. Before his current imprisonment he ran from the law. What is the law supposed to do? If not imprisoned during the trial, he would run. He has already demonstrated a willingness to run. He has no stable job. He has no strong family ties. There is nothing to keep him at home.
What is a society to do, given the fact that you yourself admit that their should be penalties? All that can be offered is due process, and that has not failed here.
hahah
The media enjoys a qualified privilege in defamation cases. Basically this means that they're protected wether or not the information is true, as long as they published without malice or reckless disregard as to the validity of what they publish. Both of these are very hard to show in court.
This combined with the fact that Mitnick is a criminal with previous convictions makes his case laughable.
As I look at the part about Mitnick's punishment--being forbidden to touch a computer, cell phone, or cordless phone--I'm reminded of an Asimov short story I read once, in one of his anthologies. I forget the title--maybe someone here will know it--but the way it went was that a fellow had been convicted of some sort of computer crimes and, in punishment, had been given a phobia of computers which prevented him from touching them at all. In the end, he decided to appeal it, preferring time in jail to being so restricted.
The premise of the story was that this was cruel and unusual punishment--not because of having been given the phobia, but because the world had become a place where not being able to use computers of any kind was a crippling handicap. Though we might not have reached that point by the time Asimov wrote that story, I think we're a whole lot closer now, and Asimov knew that day was coming.
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
I don't claim to know everything about this, but from this article it looks like it would be equivalent to some attention-starved reporter publishing on the front page of The Times that the guy who stole your wallet actually ripped off your head, as well as the heads of all witnesses, and made a necklace of of it and tried to sell it on Ebay. Sure, graffiti artists should be punished, but we should be abusing rapists and murderers, not them.
Mitnick's defense has repeatedly asked and been granted additional time to work on the defense. mitnick would have been long done with the trial by now if he had wanted to. He might even have been a free man (albeit with a recent conviction).
Ummm...the people who don't like it when "crackers" call themselves "hackers" aren't going to like it that Kevin Mitnick (a "cracker") called himself a "hacker". Very good - you can reason from the general to the specific. Do you have a point?
I think the point (well, mine, at least) is that he is NOT being denied the right to a speedy trial. He has waived that right. You can argue that it's injust or not right, but you can't reasonably argue that the govt has not given him the opportunity for a trail.
You know, for DECADES computer scientists created software without a computer. For example, they would write the code on paper, they would punch cards, and they would hand their cards to an operator who would feed it into the machine. Mitnick could, I'm sure, come up with something like this. If he can't physically touch a computer, he can have a typist work for him. If he can't have a job working within 50 feet of a computer, he can have a typist at the other end of a speakerphone, with a high-reolution closed-circuit TV trained on the screen the typist is working at. If he can't be employed to work on computers, he can be a janitor (wink, wink, nudge nudge). If he's really worth what some people here think he is, I think an employer would gladly go to the extra effort to hire him. I personally doubt that he's worth much today as a computer professional. His skills were state of the art when he was arrested but are badly out-of-date now.
This is common for someone who is considered a flight risk, which can happen anytime someone violates parole or misses a court appearance. My best friend in high school skipped bail on a traffic ticket and was later picked up (he was caught speeding again). He was not allowed to post bond and was held in jail until someone could down and paid the fine.
... you know, the one against "cruel and unusual punishment"? I think this qualifies. It's a perfect way to insure that he'll have no way to make a living when he gets out, except crime.
The (surprisingly well-written) essay on the Free Kevin site had a very strong point about the valuation of the stolen information -- how much is it really worth? There's no way he can ever pay it back, and if he doesn't, they can go after him for that, too. They've got him for life.
Before this whole case, I thought Kevin Mitnick was slime. Now I'm developing more and more sympathy for him every day.
Kai MacTane: Web developer for hire in San Francisco
This is along the same lines as owning a book on how to build a bomb. It is not illegal unless you actually build it.
We are however venturing into definate grey areas here.
Why do whiners like you always fail to mention at Mitnick waived his right to a speedy trial! Not too bright, KM... but then again, if he was that bright he would never have gotten caught in the first place.
Here's to hoping they find something to keep him in for another 5 to 10...
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