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Debian Logo Continues
weink writes
"Debian is in the process of getting their logo in order.
The vote will take place in about a week. After the logo
contest at GIMP, here are
the options. "
I am so happy that I have my Debian box running again. apt is
so good for lazy sysadmins. Oh, and I vote for Raul's design.
Super smooth.
Previously I used Red Hat 5.1-5.2 The nice thing about Red Hat is that it's easy to install.
But Debian is not much more difficult.
The problem I ran into with Red Hat is that the blasted config files are all auto-generated and any effort to hand-edit them is either be wasted (because they get overwritten at boot-up) or results in a broken system because various tools rely on a strict format for the files.
Now perhaps I just did not follow all of the correct procedures, but having come from Slackware (and originally *cough* SLS), I'm used to rolling my own. Often I just don't want to be bothered with linuxconf or the [expletive] control-panel.
I'd describe Debian as Slackware with really, really nice packages. Packages include scripts that get run after installation to configure everything. There's a down side to this, however. You can't just start the install and walk away, because some scripts are interactive and ask you questions. Also, when I installed, the machine must have compiled the emacs math elisp code about 20 times. And this is not a quick process. I'm still not sure why deselect felt it should re-install elisp code several times.
That said, the package manager (dselect) is not as horrible as is generally thought around these parts. Yes, it takes a bit of getting used to, but the on-line help is really fabulous. I did not need to read the "printed" documentation to do simple things like select and install packages. Apparently a new and improved package manager is on the way.
But the truly great thing about Debian is apt. Apt lets you completely update your system with two simple commands:
% apt-get update
% apt-get upgrade
The first updates the list of available packages. Apt knows how to interface through ftp and http so you can scan packages from lots of remote places. The second command pulls down any new versions of packages you have installed. When a bugfix for Debian is announced, I run these two commands and my system is brought completely up-to-date with the latest rev. Apt is smart enough to resolve all package dependencies and also bring over any new packages that are necessary.
The downside to apt is that it relies on the package source location to have directories organized just like they are on the distribution CD. This isn't a problem at debian.org, but installing packages from most other places means you have to ftp and install "manually" (ala RPM). But I figure it's a good sign when this is one of the few "complaints" I have.
Now Red Hat's rpm can also install or upgrade over the net, but is there a tool for updating the package list (over the net) like apt? Perhaps someone can enlighten me. I find it hard to believe it could be any simpler than apt.
One of the few problems I have with Debian is that it starts every bloody daemon in existence by default. I still haven't had the time to go through and shut them all off. Also, my network setup is a little hosed, but I think that's my fault.
I've been very pleased with Debian so far. It's much less buggy than Red Hat (imagine that, quality assurance really does work!), upgrades are a breeze and it just feels rock-solid.
Maybe just different animals for different kernels - penguin for Linux, gnu for Hurd, etc?
FYI, you can set it up to do unattended installs. There is(are?) option(s) to give the scripts default answers at install time. I've never used this option personally, so I can't give you specifics (sorry), but I've spoken to several people who use it regularly. Check the docs.
The rationale behind the ant is that Debian has similarities to an ant colony--hundreds of developers, each maintaing his or her own packages, and the sum is the finished product. Bees were also suggested for the same reason.
--Phil (But I really like option 2. Clean, elegant, recognizable, good connotations.)
355/113 -- Not the famous irrational number PI, but an incredible simulation!
Think we could get Barbara Eden as a spokesperson?
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
I think we need a slashdot vote for that.
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I'm going to live forever, or die in the attempt.
I've been getting it sporadically for the last couple weeks or so (ever since Rob started adding the moderation changes).
I've been trying to find some pettern, so I can figure out what might be causing it. No identifiable pattern yet, though.
--
- Sean
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
I like Raul. Its very clean, works well in a variety of color depths, and isn't too Linux specific. However it has problems. As someone else mentioned, its similar to a few other logo's. (its probably worthwhile to note that its similar in spirit to the Jini logo, though not in execution)
Jeanette is a high quality logo which would scale well and grabs the eye. I do wonder about the association with a bug though, if we are to believe that a logo should be designed to the fit the frame of mind of the masses then choosing an insect, regardless of the true intent, might not be such a hot idea.
Villate probably won't scale well enough, and might not look real good in lower bit depths. Drop shadows look good on web pages, but translate lousy to other media. (Oh the irony)
Guatamnlad is too linux specific for my tastes. It would however probably scale well and look fine in b&w or 8bit color. Still, I find it unexciting to look at. Redhat has a cool logo, Suse has a cool logo, Debian can do better than this.
Captain Blue Eye must die. I've found this logo disturbing from day 1. Sure it meets the logo criteria for scalability, color, etc. But its just not engaging enough.
So while I really like Raul and I think it would make a fine logo I think we should be concerned about its similarity to other common place logos. A theme I think that Debian would do good to explore is the theme of the Debian wax seal. There was one submission in the Gimp logo contest with this theme, and while it didn't translate well, (bad jpeg compression artifacts really detracted from its beauty I think) it was a really good idea. A stylized wax seal could be just as eye catching as Raul, but avoid the similarity issues. It could easily be transmogrified from a simple 2 tone line drawing to a full-on photorealisitc image, all while retaining clarity and re-enforcing the Debian "brand". All we need now is for someone to go draw it. ;-)
I've taken one or two aborted attempts at this idea myself, but I found that I just wasn't deft enough with the Gimp to do it justice. I'm hoping that someone else gives it a try.
Nah, it's sufficiently different :-) "Debenhams GNU/Linux" would make an interesting parody of some sort though. I'd do it myself if I had a sufficiently well-developed sense of humour.
(I hope Debian Linux fits my new computer as well as Debenhams jeans fit me. I have a 28" waist and a 29" inside leg measurement, so it's kinda hard to get trousers that fit. Most manufacturers start at 30").
guatamnlad's design looks the best to me. I think it's really professional: simple, memorable, and eyecatching. Also, having the "official" and "open use" logos so similar, with one a simplified variation on the other, makes a lot of sense IMHO.
Mind you, the "Debian Linux" caption is likely to upset someone...
The only logo that even comes close to being professional is Raul's. Even then, his logo is very similar looking to Lucent technologies. The process of coming up with a logo is a lot more complicated than just running a contest. Not every artist is going to hit 'the magic one' on the first try. In fact it would be quite rare for that to happen (especially in a dominant programmer user base).
What needs to happen is collaberation. Debian needs to let the artists know what kind of image they want to project. Then the artist will come up with several ideas and sketches. Debian should then look at what it likes out of the entries and thow out what it doesn't. The artist then goes back an comes up with more sketches that expand on the ideas that Debian has liked and maybe coming up with some ideas that Debian might like.
Once all the entries have been distilled down you should have a simple logo that can be printed in both color and b&w without compromising image. The logo should also be able to be printed at different sizes with out compromising quality. This logo needs to be unique so that when people look at it they automatically know 'Debian.'
One of the biggest thing in corporate America is image. I applaud Debian for realizing that they need to improve their image in order to become more mainstream. However I serious hope they turn all of these designs away because none of them are mature, simple, or unique enough to capture a good image of Debian.
At this point I would like to bring up Red Hat. Look at their logo. It is very simple. It can be printed very easily in b&w as well as color. It can be easily scalable. This logo also has the effect of distilling what Red Hat is down into a simple image. This is the type of thing that Debian needs to strive for.
As an artist I would also like to bring up my concern about the limited tool set that Debian was allowing to be used. While I think that The GIMP is a very useful tool, I think that it is not the right tool for this job. Like I said before, corporate logos need to be simple, clean, catchy and scalable. The GIMP is most useful at making complex effects and designs. And while yes it could be used to make simple designs it has one major flaw. It deals with raster based images. Raster based images are absolutely horrible when trying to scale to various different sizes. I believe that a vector based program at least needs to be allowed in to the mix...especially for corporate logo design.
I look forward to any comments people might have...