Slashdot Mirror
India hires elephant to "stomp out piracy"
Gambit Thirty-Two pointed us to this story, in which Indian magistrates called an elephant in to "crush hundreds of pirate compact discs." This was to symbolize crushing priacy in India. And, sorta related-Nate will be in India from May 10 - June 10. If you can hook him up with telnet during that time, drop him a line/a.
Since all business is condoned and santioned by the Indian Government I have a hard time believing this is anything but a put on. Everything is subsidized there, so any computer work goes on with the de facto 'authorization' of the gov. I personally know an Indian who smuggled about 32Gb worth of software out of the USA. I knew too late to alert Customs. Any Indian official may email me for known alias and last known address/phone in India.
Besides proprietary software no longer bothers me, as I use OSS, so no more worries here.
Joe Robertson
jmrober1@ingr.com
Hmmm.. too bad we cannot get Elephants in places like the US where we have even larger "silos" with more powerful "grapes or wrath".
:-)
This is just like saying RedHat is a big bad monopoly
I am beginning to see more Linux related articles coming from India. There is probably a large number of users already using it and there are Linux User Groups around too. It is a question of time.
:-)
Software prices are high enough in the US. In developing countries, the prices are often completely off the scale for personal and small business use. Only larger corporations can afford to purchase legal software. This explains rampant piracy in SE Asia but it does not excuse it.
OSS cannot win over Proprietary in terms of price because both can be had for no costs (or media cost) by users. The two key points that will help adoption of OSS in developing countries are:
1)HARDWARE REQUIREMENTS: Hardware costs are "real" costs and if you can do more with the same hardware, you use that software. Enter OSS.
2)PERFORMANCE: No need explaining this one.
Given a reasonable choice to be legal, people will do the right thing. Give them no choice and they start thinking of other ways...
OSS has a lot to offer to developing countries. And it will get recognized. Stricter anti-piracy laws and mechanisms may actually foster the growth of OSS. And that's good.
seems like an effective way of dealing with piracy.
has the RIAA considered using this tactic to deal with mp3?
I understand a lot of the big cities like Bombay and Calcutta are polluted hellholes. But some other places aren't so bad. I guess it is different for me since I have family there, though.
Whaaaat? Getting kids to rat on their parents. Ahem, for those who beleive in God/Bible/Etc... one of the ten commandments is: Honour they father/mother... Hmmm, this really sends a "good" message to kids: Rat on yer parents! (Note: Please don't turn this into some damn religious war type thread. I don't dislike any religion. I just happen to be a Christian, and don't have enough time to study my religion much, never mind the religions of others. Sorry if that offends you...)
;)
Anyways, software piracy is NOT WRONG at home. Why? Because there's no damn way a home user should have to spend $700-$800 on a word/win '98/games software combo (this is, to the best of my knowledge, some of the most popular pirated software for home). Would you feel right if you just purchased DSS satellite hardware, and the company said they wanted another $800, right off the bat, before they'd even CONSIDER connecting your service? Is a computer useful to the regular "idiot" who used to spend all their time watching that satellite without some software? Remember who I'm talking about... This person couldn't use Linux if they tried (yet...), and doesn't have the IQ necessary to read a computer manual.
I know what yer gonna say too (I think)... If the guy is so stupid that he can't use Linux, he deserves to pay extra to make the computer as stupid (and, to him, easy to use) as he is. This is like saying "Build the 5" TV yourself, and we'll sell the parts to you for $20", "Buy it prebuilt, and it'll cost $800". Sorry, I just think taking that much money off of people because they are stupid is plain wrong.
I wouldn't even be having this little chat if that combo cost $20-$30. My pricing estimate is based on: Media - $0.50, Manuals - $2.50, Box - $0.50, Development costs $1, Paying store bills and paying the people that work there - $1. Total: $5.50. At $20, that still leaves $14.50 in profit to split. That's a pretty good profit, at least I hope it is. I'd be mad if I thought my computer only cost $10 without profits factored in (I figure my computer cost me about $1600). That's the difference of cost associated in that set of software.
Just my opinion. Maybe I should keep it to myself next time
I was born in the Indian subcontinent, In my opinion it is this kind of false or misguided "I am so civilized "indian attitude that keeps India chained to the miserable conditon(dirty streets, selfish people, corruption, pollutions, distruction of wildlife, historic sites) it is in. Just because some nutty Theosophical society members in the 19th century and some Hippies in the 20th century wrote that India is the abode of all wisdom does'nt make it the truth. We might have some writing of some neurotic indians of 2000 years ago, but the truth is our civilization and our mindset is outdated and is in need of a serious upgrade
I am happy some 3rd and 2nd word countries are doing something against piracy. My dad owns a division in a software company, he directs development of cad/cam products. One happy day he did a search on his product in deja news to find out what people were saying and found a russian crack group website selling pirated cd's for $20.
You shoulda never left the great Brit-Shit land you retard. You're better off eating english shit, why should you lower your standards.
and where might you be living now oh god of wisdom. not in the us ? the "i'm so civilized" attitutde that you disparage, is the exact one you portray. i think you're a typical ABCDEFGHI-Ma-da-lodda
ireland)
I have met and worked with many UK programmers who invariably are very talented, funny, witty, and more often than not, can drink me under the table.
Regretfully, many of them seem to have a complete lack of sensitivity to the scars of imperialism and the general ravages of Britian's Colonial empire. Wake up people, read some non-UK history and engage in some critical analysis and learning!!
This upper-case NATE: post seems to have been written by an unusually clueless Brit: anyone kissing the ground of Heathrow on re-entry to the UK is obviously still wrecked from the free booze on the flight in. . . pay him/her no mind.
I have been told that the total Photoshop costs (developement, bug squashing, marketing, paying the janitors, etc) costs Adobe about $80. And Photoshop is sold for $500 retail. Hmm.
Oh come on, I've been on those flights. The bouncing is fun... just like what Seinfeld says about New York cab rides.
Hmm... Let's get juvenile and whine about Microsoft some more. Don't want your kid exposed to what, commercialism? Try a commune in the desert buddy. I don't know where you live, but in my neck of the woods, EVERYTHING is commercial. I'd really like to ship all of those damn OSS wackos out to a commune by themselves.
This is very true. The price of software in developing countries is exorbitant compared to the average income. I'm not sure whether this is a matter of mispricing by software companies -- perhaps they hope against hope that they can someday stamp out pirated software, and people will start buying legitimate software (well, that won't happen; there's just too much incentive to pirate given the insanely high prices).
What makes the matter even worse is that unlike the US, academic discounts aren't given for software. I would think discounts are much more sorely needed in developing countries.
Hi Rob
Can u change the title please, the elephant was not called by Indian magistrates, but rather by "National Association of Software and Service Companies (NASSCOM)", which has nothing to do with the judiciary, and is an independent non-profit organisation of which M$ is a member.
Later....
I wish people had just ignored ElectricEye.
He sure is one insensitive guy. There are
lot of places in the world far worse than
even India, that doesnt make the people
there less human than him. He is just
a lucky person who *happened* to be born
in a rich country.
Some expressed their disapproval of pirated
software in words which gave an impression that
it happens only in countries like India. I
am a student in a university here in America.
Among the software I see and use in people's
computers, I would be surprised to see even one
legally obtained software in ten. Infact I havent
seen a legal copy of win-98 in any computer which
was bought before it came out.
"I have met and worked with many UK programmers who[..] can drink me under the table"
You have met Brits that were under the table after you?? I'm in UK now for a workexperience and here the beer is just some water with some alcohol added. I even have a friend that is making a desintoxication cure here. English beer sucks (english food too), if you want real beer you ought to go in Belgium, Germany of France.
Looks like your Nutty, Hippy and Nurotic
"firmware" is seriously outdated. It is
in dire need for a new update.
Hmmm... which kernel would you try?
Chorus, Mach, pSOS, vxWorks, DROPS, RT-Linux?
Nope, they don't have 'civilized' GUI. Better
try Windows CE 2.1, it has a very civilised GUI,
it is very new!
But he doesn't appear to be white!
You racist ignorant white fuck !
It seems to me that:
1: Only racists claim all racists are white
2: Only racists think all americans are white
...this was aimed more at professional bootleggers than Joe User (Sandeep User?). And, IMHO, there's a difference at least in degree if not in kind between copying proprietary software for your own use and copying proprietary software and passing it off as legit for the purpose of making money - which I hear is extremely common in part of Asia. I'm as much in favor of free software as anyone, but these guys sound like "free beer" types.
That having been said, yeah, the whole thing is probably just for publicity. "Look, US, we're committed to stamping out piracy of your software! Really!" Just like China shutting down bootleg CD factories...
In lots of developing countries, software is not the only thing being pirated. I'm surprised they didn't have the elephant step on piles of fake designer clothing too.
My brother was in India a few months ago. Children sell "bottled water" and then collect the bottles and refill them again and again with hideous polluted water and sell it to tourists.
India is trapped in a "defect, defect" nash equilibrium in many ways. It will take a lot more than one trained elephant to rid the country of its poverty, violence, and terrible living conditions.
The for-profit software industry will impose new and unequal "castes" that will only serve to embroil India in a rigid and unneeded technocracy. What India needs is cooperation. What India needs is OSS.
MANY INDUSTRIES started out as black market operations. The first uses of the printing press involved the for profit illicit printing of bibles, pornography, dissenting voices, etc.
Similarly, internet and software technology is driven largely by people who see an opportunity to make money. Lots of money has been made by companies (like Micro$oft) who manage to make billions before the DOJ catches on and starts enforcing laws in an as yet unfamiliar domain. Software piracy is a perfect example of the conflicting interests that define the issue. Right now manufacturers have more to lose by improving security and protecting their copyrights than they do by simply letting the piracy continue .
Let's face it, profit making companies often have more to gain from the standardization that their product gains as a result of its mass distribution, legal or not. In the long run, owning the standard is what is important, not controling every aspect of distribution in the short term.
Cool down Bhai :)
If it is bad in his view point, experiences and facts, let's see it objectively. No problem can be solved by bashing someone. There are problems, but they are there everywhere!
When i had to go to US for my work, my family people were very worried. They had read a news item about people getting killed in a departmental store shoot-out. They had heard about school children possessing guns. Many had adviced me not to go out after 7PM, I may be mugged.
From there view point US was a very insecure place to live-in, but people living in US know the reality.
When in Bangalore, i use to come back home from office many times at 2pm in night, alone on a bike. I had never faced any problem! and again in US also, we used to go by car at mid-night to diners and return back. Nothing had happened to me.
So let's not exagarate issues and bash one-another.
India is Improving and India will improve! I have that faith!
--
I have found the absolute truth, that there is nothing called an absolute truth
In their little (or big, considering the elephant) roundup and subsequent crushing of CD's, they could end up crushing Linux CD's full of Free Software without knowing that making copies of Free Software is OK.
It will take a long time before people realise that you can take a company's flagship product in their boxed set and make unlimited copies for unlimited distribution and unlimited usage without infringing any copyrights (with the possible exception of non-free software included in Caldera, SuSE, and the Apps CD in Official Red Hat). It just sounds unusual.
I remember once when someone told me that I shouldn't be copying CD's. I told him I was copying Red Hat CD's from their boxed set, and he said "isn't that illegal?" I told him that it's legal, even recommended, to make copies of Linux and give it to your friends. Not only thats, it's legal to start a company whose sole purpose is selling Linux distributions made by other companies and organisations. The premise is bound to confuse anyone.
So, what's the elephant's opinion on this one?
I heard on my local news today that a church is asking people to bring in 'objectionable' material - books, cds, etc. and they will then have former professional football player for the Green Bay Packers Reggie [god-tells-me-what-to-do] White stomp on them...
how's that!?
...end of transmission...
Isn't OSS the solution? This seems really obvious to me. Hey India, get Linux!
Now if we could just get one to stamp out those silos they're storing the grapes of wrath in...
In Boston, famous free software champion Richard Stallman, head of the FSF, contracted with local zookeepers to have a herd of wild gnus trample over thousands of CDs of proprietary software. When asked where he obtained funding for such a venture, Stallman replied, "We couldn't justify spending money on proprietary software, so we just asked for donations. Fortunately, the gnus are based on free DNA code, so we were able to lease them in good conscience."
Beer recipe: free! #Source
Cold pints: $2 #Product
Man, that's sneaky.
:)
Sorry, couldn't resist.
InThane
I hope you get out of there alive. I went to India for over a week last year and it was the most frightening experience of my entire life. DON'T commute between cities if you can help it. You want to know what fear is? Try being on LONG roads with NO traffic rules and drunk goods haulers.... I still have nightmares....
It's a beautiful place, but I wouldn't go back. It's extremely polluted and you're always getting conned. I kissed the ground of Heathrow Airport on my return trip....
Yeah, it aged me about 30 years! ;-) BTW, I wasn't comparing Heathrow to India. I was just happy to be back on safe soil!!
No, actually, the only two times I've ever set foot in England were in-between flights to and from India and JFK. Try again.
I was being serious, though. Perhaps, the second half of my comments are what have ticked off a few drunks. But I have never lived in fear of death for 10 days straight. Literally. I forgot to mention my connecting flight in India on Indian Airlines. Ever been in a 737 that literally BOUNCED on the runway, the pilot landed so hard and fast? No. But I have...... That was yet another example that the country simply isn't able to handle "modern" technologies.
Yeah, ok, whatever. Where did you get the idea I don't like my kid being exposed to commercialism?
I was not `whining' about Micros~1 per se, although that is something I can find no fault with, I was angry that Micros~1 should have such access to my kid, and in such a crass manner.
Why is it that many people who claim to support standards have such atrocious spelling and grammar?
Micros~1 had a shill at my kid's school the other day, handing out frisbees with skull-n-crossbones on 'em and telling the kids `Now boys 'n' girls, don't do any naughty software piracy, and report your parents if they do.'.
:) Yay! Go Josh!
Meks me mad, poisoning young minds like that[1].
My son scratched out the M$ logo on the frisbee right in front of the shill's face
[1] Not that piracy is necessarily a good thing, but I don't think Micros~1 should have any access to my son's mind.
Why is it that many people who claim to support standards have such atrocious spelling and grammar?
I did a bit of research and found that software prices in India are very high, especially in comparison to the per capita income. A legal copy of Windows NT Workstation sells for 16,200 rupees, about 378 U.S. dollars. This is greater than the annual per capita income, according to figures from the Indian embassy. I assume that the owner of a computer in India would have a higher income, but it still seems outrageously expensive.
How much of the revenue from software sales stays in the Indian economy, vs. going into Bill Gate's pocket?
I generally disapprove of software piracy, but I have a hard time criticizing piracy when the relative price of software is far higher than in the United States. What if someone told you that it would only cost $20,000 to buy a copy of the software needed to read and create Microsoft Office files? What if you had to have this software to do business with other companies?
I hope India will switch to free/open source software and tell Microsoft to buzz off.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
Whatever gives you this idea. Try to look outside of the shell you live.. India is NOTHING like this. The Govt. is liberal and we do not need any authorization. NASSCOM (which is the Association being talked about) is a non-govt entity. So next time..find out more before you go around projecting things in a negative light.
When I clicked on the link for that story, I was hoping for a picture ;-).
Cheers,
Roy Ward
India - long roads, no traffic rules, drunk good haulers, almost dying, extremely polluted, always getting conned. The kind of country that turns you into a real man!
Finally, comparing Heathrow Airport to anywhere isn't a fair comparison.
The beauty that is Heathrow. Ahhhh....
Back in 1985 (if my memory serves me) President Moi of Kenya ordered the burning of millions an millions dollars worth of irory tusks as a symbolic protest to the illegal sale of elephant tusks.
now india gets an elephant to crush cd's.
pretty ironic!
p