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AOL Making a Linux Box?
bearded.duane writes "America Online is
considering the Linux operating system as one option for running an
inexpensive Internet access device, according to sources familiar with the project.
"
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I seem to remember a certain Linux build booting off a 1.44MByte floppy and running in 4MBytes of memory (as an embedded internet firewall). Seems to me Linux itself can be configured to have a very small footprint. X, however, is a ridiculous memory hog, as are the current versions of Netscape and Internet Explorer. In other words, their graphics/browser software is going to take up an order of magnitude more space than the Linux OS itself, so what are they whining about?
Guys (and Gals),
why not put in a small linux kernel,a tiny windowing system (NanoGUI),mozilla and the java libs compiled as native code for the machine,IIRC i think the java lib are compiled as java bytecode,i looked in the egcs source code,there was a compiler for java who compile native code,the vm could be hacked to use the platform native java lib instead of calling the bytecode lib,it could speed up the execution of java proggy and also lessen the use of memory,what do you all think about this ??
Canadian AC
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will a large outfit like AOL *really* buy into open source if they use it in a major project like set-top boxes, and release the source code of it to everyone ?? Will people buy internet client appliances if 'every hacker/cracker on earth knows how it works'? Or will AOL court test the GPL license and build derivitive works on one and keep it private?? (So sue me!) It would be a public relations disaster to us, for sure, but to the clueless masses of aoler's? I guess the way they give out sign up disks, a free, easily clonable aol client is just what they want, to sell eye-balls to advertisers.
Just thought I'd ask....
I want to own a cultural icon!
Chuck
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
The big problem is X11. There are ways to shrink
X11 a lot, and the nano-gui project is now beginning to get workable code. See http://www.linuxhacker.org
In thinking of "small devices" think in terms of 256K or 512K of RAM, possibly that much ROM. That's what a *lot* of embedded devices have. Heck, some don't even have that much.
Then again, they don't need it. And, in this case, for something that needs a GUI and whatever, there will definitely be more than a few megs of RAM available (one would hope.)
But, as am embedded guy, when I hear "small footprint" I think in terms of K, not M, as that is what quite a few devices out there have. That is probably where that statement came from.
It is more likely that AOL will develop set-top boxes using Java. I say this for two reasons, 1: Java was originally designed for this sort of thing, 2: AOL and Sun have formed an alliance and Sun will be pressuring them to use their technology.
Java will most likely be used even if it is less than satisfactory from a technology standpoint since the business people will be making the decisions and not the technology people.
None of the opinions expressed here reflect those held by my employer or my school in any way.
I read the internet for the articles.
Posted by Mike@ABC:
Linux could be a very smart move for AOL, which really doesn't care what OS is used, as long as it works and will allow access AOL content. And Linux, after all, is free...!
That won't make Sun Microsystems happy, but it's not like Sun has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Java technologies can work seamlessly on these smaller appliances.
Figure Linux on the set-top boxes, maybe a small Java OS on handhelds (and yeah, AOL wants in on handhelds, too). I don't even think AOL will mind the GPL on Linux -- the more people who have boxes, the better off AOL will be.
Gotta remember, AOL is all about reaching customers with content. They'd do it by carrier pigeon if they thought it would work.
Here's a scary thought for y'all. Back when TV was getting off the ground, everyone was psyched about the technology behind it. Today, we take the television infrastruture -- the satellite transmissions, TV cameras, etc. -- for granted. That will probably happen with computing, one day, and AOL knows it.
First off, memory footprint is a non-issue... it's almost the sort of FUD i've come to expect from IDC and other "analysts". Is 32M enough? That should comfortably run Linux, X, and Netscape - as it has done on PCs for a long time. How much would 32M cost at manufacturing time? $20? Less?
I've been toying with this very idea for a while now, and here are some of my thoughts on architecture...
CPU: StrongARM or PPC. Forget Pentium hogs or quasi-vaporware Java chips.
Ports: VGA, USB, IR, and maybe 1394 (for high-speed peripherals like disk drives). A cheap low-end chipset is enough to work at adequate resolution with any VGA monitor. Keyboard and mouse can work through IR or USB, no need for parallel, old serial, or PS/2. A really stripped-down box needs only USB and VGA.
Networking: Modem or ethernet, use PCMCIA.
OS: Linux, of course.
Drives: Think they could cram a non-development Linux setup into 340M? Use the IBM microdrives. Add a 1394 port, and attach any other drives you need. No need for a floppy (blech!), or even a CD-ROM, but the 1394 could support backup devices, DVD, whatever.
Power supply: Wall-wart. With a StrongARM and a microdrive, power requirements will be trivial.
Now, consider economies of scale on production. I'll bet this box could be built for under $100, sans monitor. At that price point, giving away PCs makes sense!
Hand me that airplane glue and I'll tell you another story.
The memory issues are with the GUI and browser -- but would a windows box require any less?
I recently bought retail (but cheapie) a motherboard with on-board IDE/Floppy/Serial/USB/Parallel, Cyrix P-266, 32MB of RAM, a cheapie 2MB video card, and a 32x CD-ROM drive for $155 including tax. It runs Linux and X just fine.
Add a case/PS/keyboard/mouse for another $50 and a 1GB hard drive for $50 and you've got a full system ready to hook up to a TV for about $250 at retail prices. Cut that in half for wholesale (or less!) and you've got a very affordable set-top box.
Heck, you wouldn't even need that big a hard drive -- send out your AOL CD's and let them boot off of that. The user wouldn't need to worry about screwing up the config, and updates would just mean putting a new CD in the drive and rebooting. All the configuration work would be done by AOL so the user wouldn't have to know a compiler from a cappucino.
It wouldn't have to be AOL, though. Anyone could do it -- just set it up so the user puts in their logon info and dial up # and sell it for general use.
This could be a real market...
Stupid people will be persecuted to the fullest extent allowed by law.
I have to disagree with this point here:
:)
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However, Sean Kaldor, also of IDC, was more cautious about using Linux in smaller devices. "The advantage is zero cost per unit. The disadvantage is that it's big and will require some engineering" to fit into small devices. The balance will be in choosing between paying for an operating system already designed for small devices and paying for the larger memory requirements of Linux, he said.
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Look at all the portable Linux projects right now, like Linux for the Palm platform, etc. It can be run in a small memory footprint, if memory serves me correct (2.0.x could run in 4MB or so). I believe WinCE needs at least 8MB (or possibly more) to run.
It won't require engineering if you actually take a look at the low-memory Linux projects already available! I think that people have to realize that Linux isn't just a 500MB install... it's a highly configurable system that can run on nearly anything.
I'd say the biggest problem would be porting Linux to the portable platform, but most of the major platforms already have Linux support.
I wouldn't mind trying Linux for the Dragonball (PalmPilots), but I'd need a PP first
æeee!