Slashdot Mirror
Networking Companies - Eh on Linux
netstat sent us
the story about the big networking companies and Linux. Much the same story as elsewhere, they already support NT and Solaris, and don't see the user base for Linux there yet. Much of the comments are candids taken from Networld Interop. As you would expect, most of them want to see more users before rolling out support.
I gave last week a talk at SD "Building Web Apps using Linux". It was talk about Apache, PHP and Linux. And as such I was expecting a fairly large crowd. What happened? The crowd never materialized. There was an ok sized crowd Why? The reason is because it takes time. .
I realized this with another talk I give. This talk I have given for two years. Only this conference is there actually interest.
The conference folks and I are not fretting because there is interest. People want to see, but it takes time. Rome was not built in a day. Do you remember Windows? Windows took 5 years to catch on after the first commerical adoption. Linux while being around for a long time has only really caught the eye of the public for about two years. That is still a baby. Give it another three years and we shall see.
I surely hope that the Linux people can rise above this "negative" comments and continue. Remember the success of LINUX is not something companies want. Consider the following.
Corporate companies believe in a pyramid information approach. The top of the pyramid is the company. They are the top because they create the information. Those that want to share in the pyramid fight to get near the top. However, since the company is at the top they can select who gets the near the top. They can control who becomes their friends and enemies. The size of the pyramid depends on the amount of users who want the information. And the companies compare against each other on the size of the pyramid.
Enter LINUX. There is no pyramid. Information is not hidden, but shared. There is no one specific entity controlling who gets the information. And as such it cannot be controlled who gets and does not get the information. This scares companies to death. You have just wiped out their business model. In an information age money is made, by those that have hidden information.
But I think this model is catching on. Especially among the young ideal programmers. Me I am a bit older and I have a problem with the "Open" nature of LINUX. But I am trying to adapt. And so are many other people. Be patient we will get there.
Christian Gross
I just sent this email to the Bay-ISP mailing list (bay-isp-request@bit.net.au, you guys know the drill..) comments?
h tml
---- Begin Email ----
I found this at http://www.data.com/story/TWB19990513S0030
"To add this [Linux] operating system along with the ones we already support
[which include Sun Microsystems Inc.'s Solaris and Microsoft Corp.'s
Windows NT], I'd need a lot of users banging on my door," said Christopher
Cook, product manager for Optivity NETarchitect at Nortel Networks Corp.,
Billerica, Mass.
Hello? Nortel? *knock knock*? How hard do I have to bang?
I'm sure that -someone- from Nortel knows this person, and can take a clue
stick, go and hit him -hard- with it, amd then hand him this email.
How hard is it to port from Solaris to Linux? Take the source. Copy it
across.
type 'make'. Put a sticker on it saying 'This is only a supported product
when
used in conjunction with RedHat 6.0' or Debian, or SuSE or some reasonably
popular installation, basically whatever platform you typed 'make' on.
Speak
to your engineers. They probably -allready- have a linux version working,
that
you don't know about (this is what happend at Oracle. Now their highest
volume
in database sales is Oracle8 on Linux, seconded by Oracle 8i on Sparc. If
they
weren't selling a linux version, people would be using postgres, mysql,
msql,
or any number of other lesser known, but available databases.)
Perhaps you should think about it this way. Only last week, I spoke to my
sales guy (Hi Grahame!) about a decent network management solution. As I
-am-, basically, a bay shop, I started thinking about Optivity. Only having
a
few (rather decrepit) Sun's lying around, and all my grunt in Intel
hardware,
I started having a look at the supported platforms.. Uh. No Linux there. Ah
well.. You miss out on a sale.
For me to buy a 'decent' sun box (eg, ultra5 or something) I'm looking at
what, $6k these days for a lightly spec'ed ultrasparc? Then another $5k for
Optivity. Total outlay, $11k. Now, instead of spending $11k, I could take 2
weeks off work (costing myself, say, $5k) and cobble together something
that's
not as nice, but does what I -need- it to do.
Yeah, sure, I'd love to have Optivity. It's nice. But I don't wanna go and
put
an -unreliable server- as my network management workstation (eg, NT) , and
then have it freeze with everything green, whilst the network around me
crumbles into a heap. I don't want to spend more than double what I need to
on
buying an ultrasparc to manage my network.
All -you- guys have to do is release Optivity on Linux. People will buy it,
and suddenly you'll be the good guys. And it's -real- rare for a geek to
consider a telco a good guy 8-)
For geek-type discussions on exactly this subject, please feel free to look
at:
http://slashdot.org/articles/99/05/14/1258203.s
I'm sure there'll be -numerous- discussions on there by the time this email
gets to you 8-)
One small point of congratulations to Nortel is that I bought a few netgear
cards the other day. They had 'Linux' as a supported OS on the box. Sure I
paid a bit more ($7 more, each, than a D-link Tulip based card that was
sitting right next to it on the shelf - basically exactly the same card) for
it, but I bought it -because- it said linux on the box.
--Rob
Schlock Mercenary.
HP's OpenView division is porting a number of network management products to Linux - Firehunter is already there and others are coming.
:)
WatchGuard is a neat firewall device whose key feature is a team of security people who remotely update the rules and software as new exploits are discovered - all Linux based.
Interestingly, Cisco is going to bundle Apache with its NT-based web-based network management tools, apparently because it's too hard to set up the various flavours of MS IIS correctly.
Product support will follow Linux market share - the queso OS surveys make it quite clear that Linux is the dominant Web host with 30+ per cent market share, followed by Windows then Solaris - so it's likely that management tools focusing on web hosts will migrate to Linux quite quickly.
On a personal note... if there's anyone out there who wants bandwidth management / QoS support for Linux web hosting, please email me at rdonkin@orchestream.com as well as commenting here - I'm curious as to how much demand is out there, ideally from large enterprises or service providers. (My company, Orchestream, makes policy-based network management tools for QoS/CoS, and the Linux-DiffServ stuff looks like a very capable platform for this - I think web hosts will be the primary market for any Linux version.)
The key, as always, is to find the right person in a company (typically a product manager or marketing manager) and contact them with your request for Linux support, including details of the number of users, number of Linux hosts, so they can start salivating over the order size
Netgear cards have been shipping with a linux driver for several months now. They include the source for a modified tulip driver so that people who have older distros can have the card working out of the box.
Even better, the Netgear cards actually display that liunx is supported on the outside of the box.
I'd say its just a matter of months before 3com follows suit on their cards... and I would bet that most router/switch management packages are in the process of being ported to linux (if they're not already web-based), no matter what the company marketing people think or say.
Linux users in general don't call for support. Especially slackers like me who are too lazy to E-mail in a bug report. So even though we hack around problems and make stuff work, _we_ never ring the right bells with vendors and PHB's. My experience has been whatever work arounds for the other unixen are there are similar work arounds for linux. We let each other know how to do it but we never spam the ppl who report to the ppl making the _business_ decisions. The moral of the story is call frequently with real issues and you will get a better response from the 'other' minded ones.
Even with an expontential growth curve, big numbers don't happen overnight. Note that they said they are watching. As ERP and other big applications happen, the support will come.
My martial arts instructor said to throw a large person, you have to pull very hard and for a long time. Big companies take time to be moved. Just keep pushing and don't let up. It will happen no other way.