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Amiga Reveals Future Design Plans
DrPsycho writes "The folks at Amiga International have
put out some information about where their next generation computer
systems might be headed.
Jim Collas president of Amiga, gives a few tidbits
in his ">Executive Update, but to cut to the juicy bits... they've posted
concept drawings for their "next generation mulitmedia computer" due out in late
Q4 of this year. These concepts
look suspiciously like PalmPilots and iMacs, if you ask me.
"
Just thought I would share that with everyone who forgot. ;)
/Briefs/Guidebook/WhereNow/ss02.html
Here are some URL's:
The not very informative one:
http://cnet.bigpond.com
The informative one:
http://www.usawebsite.com/~aau g/1997/03/ss9703a.html
First of all, it does NOT defy common sense and logic trying to come out again with a new Amiga and AmigaOS.
Rather, the author has a limited view and lack of imagination. There are many reasons why I think that the new launch of Amiga will be successful.
There is currently a trend to move towards alternative operating systems other than Microsoft. Just look at the success of the iMac and Palmpilots. Both completely different and yet very successful. Why? they do exactly what you want them to do. Easy. Microsoft Windows is not easy and frequently does not do what you like.
In fact, its frequent crashes is how it acquired its fame rather than with its marketshare.
Amiga will be another competitor in a world which could use new innovative ideas. Amiga will be exactly that. Just remember, competition provides you with choice and quality. Unfortunately, Microsoft hasn't provided me with any of that.
Even if Amiga itself will not make it, it still might have a significant impact on the market by its innovative ideas it will no doubt introduce.
And this is by no means a "cheap hooker with a wig".
The Amiga from 1985 has had profound influences on the market by its revolutionary design and I am looking forward to their latest Amiga. In a world which is dominated by a few common architectures and operating systems, it will be a welcome addition to provide us with more choices.
At this point, this is exactly what people want and need.
If they can provide the quality and design we like, applications and support will soon follow.
Amiga is not dead, there are developers actively working to bring you a brand new amiga. And of course it won't be exactly like the old machines. It, too, will have matured over time and bring you new technology and features.
I congratulate Gateway and Amiga that they invest their money to give me choice and quality. To use a comparison, Netscape is the reason why Microsoft Internet Explorer is free and well worked on.
And as far as I am concerned with the author of this thread. His story really does defy common sense and logic.
I wish Amiga a lot of success with the launch of their new products.
Why are they calling it an Amiga if it's a totally different computer? Get real, there's no other way it could be done - AmigaOS in it's current form simply couldn't be brought up to scratch - the likes of MP simply are not possible, not unless you want another Windows... the hardware is old, slow and expensive as hell, so OF COURSE they are making a new machine.
:)
:)
QNX is a very suited OS to the Amiga - a fully real time, protected microkernel OS. OK, so it's not exec, but who cares if Exec doesn't cut it any more?
I think some of you need to take a long hard look at the current crop of OS's.
Linux is lame because it's totally baffling to just about everyone, and needs it's kernel recompiling just to change a few bloody drivers.
Windows is lame because it can't do anything without touching the swap file, has a horrible GUI (so does Linux, btw, Windows is lame, but at least it has some sort of uniform look...), is a nightmare to fix when things go wrong, has... well, I'm sure you all know the problems by now
BeOS is lame because nobody supports it, and it only support x86.
AmigaSoft is aimed to be a bombproof OS, with a powerful and more uniform UI, which combines power, ease of use, stability and expandibility in the one OS, not, as it is now, spread out among many OS's. I just hope they manage it
You're right, Windows is complicated, and the structure of C:\Windows is only the surface of it.
But you're wrong when you say that Windows only seems to be easier to use. Perceived simplicity is simplicity from an end-user standpoint. Windows is easier to use than any Unix because, for example, it has a desktop environment which provides a graphical view of files, and configuration by means of control panels rather than obscure text files with arbitrary syntaxes.
Note that these niceties don't always help a power user -- in fact, they frequently get in the way. A power user knows what's going on, and when the user interface starts obscuring the facts about what's actually going on (as Windows often does), then the user interface becomes a patronising hinderance.
It's my opinion that the presence of "wizards" implies that the whole underlying process has become too badly organised to be handled in a sane manner. Ironically, "wizards" would improve certain areas of Linux, but I'd prefer that the underlying processes were tidied up and proper graphical interfaces put in place -- not that I'm expecting it. When a wizard doesn't do quite what you want, you're back in the old situation of trying to figure out what the wizard actually did, and then modifying the underlying data files to suit. At least Unix tends towards partially inscrutible text files for configuration rather than completely inscrutible binary files.
In my opinion, and getting back on topic, the Amiga is still the best example of a system which provided good ease of use without being patronising and getting in the way of people who knew what they were doing. The Mac is too patronising. Unix is inconsistent and makes you do all the work. Windows is a disaster area with a patronising front. The Amiga, I felt, was clean, friendly, and didn't treat the user like an idiot who needed protecting from the facts.
Just another thing I miss from my computing experience in the post-Amiga world.
First of all, the Amiga isn't really dead. We still have Amiga
... well,
Format, selling ~15.000 copies a month, as well as tens of other
printed mags. Some of them really professionally done. The Video
Toaster is still used lot's of places, as is Scala. They still do
their job very well.
However, the biggest proof of the Amiga still being alive is
probably the user community. Although not of the same size as the
Linux one, it is truely a special thing to be part of. Lot's of
new free- and shareware is uploaded to the Aminet every day, and
that's just a part of what is being released. The demo scene is
very vibrant even these days, and Amiga coders are doing full
screen texture mapping in 20 FPS even on the AGA chipset, which
most people claimed was useless for anything like this a few
years ago. Quake was released commercially for the Amiga, Myst was
released commercially for the Amiga. All thanks to active users who
have been pestering the software houses. We'll get Shogo this
autumn as well!
G3 and G4 boards are on their way, 603 and 604 boards are already
out and quite well supported (though only as a co-pro to the existing
68040 or 68060 processor - yet!) We have 3D boards and brill 16
bit sound boards, and even the A1200 have proven to be quite
upgradable. Just apply a bit of creativity and you can have lot's of
equipment attached to even the clock header on the mother board!
Sure, we're lagging a bit behind Wintel boxes hardware wise, and
the OS still lacks some important functions, but we are having fun,
and there's still lots and lots of stuff happening out there,
and tens of thousands users proving that the Amiga is not dead.
Together with the user community, I believe that there's still a
good chance the Amiga can make a large comeback. Gateway isn't
exactly poor either, and with the latest hirings of staff
I belive they can do it.
impressive comeback
Amiga Linux[1] has existed for many years. It was the first port of Linux to non-x86 hardware, and was done by Amiga people who wanted a better[2] OS.
You talk about the essence of the Amiga coming from it's wonderful multimedia hardware and the people around it, and I agree. My first two computers were Amigas and I loved them. However, time has moved on. After Commodore's bankruptcy the Amiga community has been scattered to the winds, leaving only a tiny hard core, and the hardware and OS that made the Amiga amazing in 1989 are now obsolete.
I don't see any reason why we old Amigans should get excited about this, or even any reason to call the new machine an Amiga: it will be entirely different hardware running an entirely different OS. It will presumably have an Amiga-like GUI but such things are already available[3]. If it runs old Amiga binaries it will in effect be running an Amiga emulator but such things are already available [4]
The Amiga was a wonderful machine in its day but I'm afraid it's time to let it die...
[1] see http://lxr.linux.no/source/arch/ m68k/amiga/?a=m68k and http://www.linux-m68k.org/faq/history.ht ml. Although the amiga version wasn't reintegrated into the linux source 'till 2.0 it did exist as a separate project.
[2] for their definition of better, which is not necessarily yours.
[3] http://www.lysator.liu.se/~marcus/amiw m.html
[4] UAE is written in C and runs under many platforms and OSes.
Fellow is written in x86 assembler and runs only in MS-DOS but is damn fast.
I recommend having a look at one of these. Certainly brought back memories for me
I wish that picture wasnt posed on slashdot. Its a beta picture of ONE of the several designs Amiga can pick from for its custom machines. It is NOT based on the iMac, if people waited till all the pictures were out they would see thats just a monitor sitting on a standard desktop machine. As for the PDA that people say is insipred by the PalmPilot. It wasnt. Once people see the other pics you'll understand.
It's time people stopped thinking that you have to have the latest computer to do anything useful.
If you don't want to play Quake XXXVIIII then even old Amigas are fine. You can utilise information on any computer.
"How much truth can advertising buy?" - iNsuRge - AK47
You just summed it up perfectly. I personally don't care that my machine is old, slow and outdated. It's fun, and that's important to me. I'd rather use an old computer that I can have fun with than get involved in the "my computer is better, newer and faster than your computer" wars that seem so prevelant everywhere these days.
It really is time that somebody classify, diagnose, and assign a name to this kind of behavior.
The Amiga is clearly the walking dead of computing platforms. Existing in the netherworld of computing somewhere between the reality of a viable business to a company being reduced to paper filled cardboard boxes in a storage unit. All the while tormenting former users with empty dreams of support and innovation.
Thus, the amiga is "Zombieware". Remember, this is where it was first defined.
Some may ask "is this not Vaporware??". No, it is not. Vaporware comes primarily from companies that actually are producing some kind of product and seem to have a viable existance.
In other word, Zombieware makes Vaporware look good.
I don't know whether this latest batch of promises and vapour will materialise into something solid and worthwhile. Wake me up when it's actually in the shops, because I lost heart years ago and gave up on the Amiga, at least as far as being interested in what's supposed to be coming next.
I have a few Amigas lying around amongst my various pieces. I don't remember what happened to the original A1000, and I don't really care, since it was only of historical interest. The A2000s I have are becoming terribly long in the tooth and hard to maintain. I'm running out of monitors that work, and I have to cannibalise one to fix the other now and then. This makes using the Amiga less than a joy. I only use it for the things that the PCs just can't do, and for the occasional bit of nostalgia.
Although I've basically given up on the Amigas I have lying around the place, I haven't given up on the essence of Amiga. This is best explained by comparision with Linux. Linux is a robust implementation of Unix, it's free, and it comes with the source code. That description, although accurate, completely fails to capture the essence of Linux. The essence of Linux, and of Amiga, is the sense of being part of a large, creative community of people who are truly passionate about their use of computers. Contrast this with anything Microsoftian.
On the other hand, Linux and Amiga are two very different things. The one will never be the other, and there's no reason why they should. It would be nice if the two communities would work on their similarities rather than their differences, of course. We know about the strengths of Linux, so let me reintroduce the strengths of the Amiga to those who have forgotten (or never knew).
Amiga was the epitome of multimedia. The Amiga had been around for years before the term "Multimedia PC" was coined to describe a PC that came with a CD-ROM drive, sound card, and a pair of jam-tins-on-string speakers. The Amiga didn't just have sound and graphics capabilities, it had well-implemented sound and graphics capabilities. The entire architecture screamed out "make me do cool stuff!" It inspired an entire sub-culture of demo-coders. It could do stuff with one meg of memory and one floppy disk that would stop people in their tracks and make them look. The enthusiasm and passion for coolness possessed by the designers of the Amiga exuded out of it and inspired you to use it in cool and creative ways.
Linux is no substitute for the Amiga, folks. I have to explain this to those of you who never experienced the essence of Amiga first hand. Linux has its own essence, and a good one at that, but I really would rather have both than just Linux. I like to do cool stuff on-screen and genlock it over video. I have a game-show which runs this way on ten year old Amiga hardware, and I haven't been able to get a PC to do the same thing yet.
Whether or not Gateway (or whoever else may come into ownership of the Amiga trademark) succeeds in creating a new Amiga is not my main concern. I'm not waiting for the next computer which has "Amiga" stamped on the case. I'm waiting for the next computer which embodies the essence of Amiga, and I think it will be a hard task to produce such a machine. The PC architecture is chronically un-cool but it's the most economically viable thing to produce: anything else starts at an economic disadvantage. Then there's the question of what software it will run.
It's not a question of Linux or Amiga, and I think that suggestions of Amiga hardware running Linux are pretty misplaced. The essence of Amiga is up-front cool fast right-now happening in-your-face stuff, and the essence of Linux is low-down foundational stability and dammit we own the computer right down to the hardware none of this "licensing" and denial of responsibility by software vendors crap.
There is one final point which does bear mentioning: can the Amiga ever be the same again without also being open source? Well, I don't have the answer to that. I'd prefer it if all the software was open source and the hardware was commoditised and available everywhere, cheaply, but I can live with options not quite so rosy as that. Bear in mind that the original Amiga hardware and OS was proprietary, under any reasonable definition of the word, but it was never secretive. You never got the feeling that some company was keeping secrets from you so they could hook you in and screw you over later.
You frequently did get the feeling that the upper management of Commodore were quite possibly the stupidest beings ever to stand on the face of the planet, but that's a different story.
When it first came out, and for a good while, Amiga was hands down the BEST damn home computer you could buy. It did things that lesser operating systems STILL can't do, or have just recently added.
The soap opera was bad enough with Commodore, but when Commodore went belly up, it just got worse. Passed from owner to owner, each holding out some hope of a new product. The fact is that the Amiga remains stuck in the same form it was when Commodore went under.
The Amiga Soap Opera is mainly one of broken promises. Like Amiga STILL doesn't have a Java enabled browser, even though one has been "almost done" for like years. Escom never did anything they promised. Now Gateway has let all the original dates slip by that they promised to make this or that available. Now we see napkin drawings and are supposed to get excited?
I think it is important for all true Amigians to realise that whatever Gateway is making, it isn't an Amiga. I mean, if they are going to start over from scratch and create a machine based on QNX instead of AmigaOS, why the hell are they calling it an Amiga?
IF they get anything off the ground, my guess it will be some intel based system with standard hardware and a sorta Amiga looking GUI. Won't run anything from anyone. Will somehow stay in existance defying logic and common sense, cause, well, that is just what Amiga does.
The truth of the matter is that the Amiga is well and truely dead. Let her rest in peace. Let her go, my fellow Amigans. Whatever Gateway might possibly make won't have AmigaOS, won't have any sort of special graphical co-processors, won't have Amiga programs that can run on it. It will be some cheap hooker with a wig thrown on to look like the long dead love.
At this point, I have no clue WHY Gateway spent good money on technology they will never use and a name that everyone has forgotten. It defies common sense and logic.
But, that is what the Amiga has done best anyway...
Rest in Peace, Amiga.
I'd love to be given the chance to buy an Amiga again. I really think that Linux has a place in the server environment. But I doubt very much that it's ever going to take over the desktop market. The UNIX structure is just too complicated for many users.
I'd like to see Amiga on the desktop and Linux at the server.
But can we trust Amiga any more? Remember AAA, and the Walker?
They dropped AAA at the last moment. And the Walker was a hoax. Who's to say that this is much the same thing? I honestly can't think what they have to gain by leading us on, but all we have to go by is a vague letter from the president and a sketch that I could've done.
I'll get excited when I see more.
"How much truth can advertising buy?" - iNsuRge - AK47
I think what people miss are the heady days when there were lots of different systems they could get hot under the collar advocating. Now its all Intel, with the dark side from Redmond set to take over the whole planet. Lack of competition isn't just unhealthy, it's also no fun. Thank God for Linux and its kin!
:)
:) At least FFS and then DCFFS saved us all from slow disc access.
:)
Yes, I am one of the many Amiga -> Linux converts. Just got a new machine with RH6 and GNOME, and already I'm in love
I still have 2 of my Amy's (an original EHB 1000, and a 3000/040) and I still marvel at some of the stuff in AmigaOS. I even have FreeBSD on the latter. I think we have all forgotten just what a kickin' bit of kit it was, and how far other things have come in the meantime.
A real OS with pre-emptive multitasking. Extensible file system and library API. Core libraries in ROM; boots in seconds into a full desktop GUI - from floppy. Library and driver management still kicks the whatsit out of the Windows DLL and SYS files. I have 3 versions of AmigaOS on the SAME 49Mb hard drive partition, with room to spare for software.
PC's at the time had DOS, and the nearest thing to a GUI was GEM. The Mac had a comparable GUI, but no CLI.
Unparalleled GUI for its day - multiple screens in different video modes, cunning colour support, graphics co-pro's, variable bitplaning. Hardware scrolling for larger-than-monitor frame buffers.
Built in stereo sound. ChipRAM is brilliant in concept. Genlock capability. Hardware support for 2 mice (none in a PC back then) - remember 2 player Lemmings?
Plug and play hardware - that WORKED. In the mid 80's. PC's are *still* bogged down in the IRQ blues.
The A2000 and B2000 - a "proper" man size box. Expansion slots for both Zorro and AT bus. Bridgecards. All excellent.
Then the A3000 - true 32 bit system, built-in fast SCSI. Sensible form factor. When it came out, it was the fastest desktop machine on the market, bar none. For years, the fastest Mac you could buy at any price was an Amiga with an emulator board. They even did a Unix version, crock though it was.
Deluxe Paint - what can I say?! Dan's Xerox heritage shone through there. Photoshop and the GIMP are only now coming up to its level.
The community of shareware and PD - second to none. Windows and Linux still don't have that. Remember Fred Fish, and the ab20 ftp site?
And the games, we can't forget those. They were its greatest strength, and ultimately what held it back.
There were also many things that sucked, and were done wrong...
488 byte per sector filesystem - whose idea was THAT? And not having directory files - not good in an advocacy war
The 3000's graphics were too little, too late. They stayed with TV standards too long. The flicker fixer was a horrid kludge. Why couldn't the 3000 write straight to the fixer's expensive static RAM buffer and give 800x600x4096?
What was all that with the softkick 3000? Give us a break! Dual boot was handy for poorly coded software though. Before I upgraded mine with the 2.04 ROMs to support the '040, I munged it around to get it to load the 1.4 Beta Workbench - wierd man, very wierd. Augustus John icons. Glad it never saw the light of day.
Half speed drives for 1.44/1.76 Mb formats - a nasty bodge. Ever tried to BUY one? Impossible to get. Mine cost a fortune to import from the USA. Chinon must have made a mint.
AGA - again, too little too late. Tied down by hardware compatibility for the games market. Should have had 24 bit colour at 0124x768, and a blitter with a (simple) 3D transform engine.
CDTV had potential, as did CD32, if they'd been marketed right. But they weren't.
The 500Plus - a bodge, and poorly marketed. That acursed ECS chipset again. I had a 68030 in mine which made it livable, but had to give it up for the more sensible A3k.
The 4000/030 - an overpriced joke. Where was the damn MMU??? No OS support for memory protection and virtual memory - a big mistake there.
Lack of decent and timely networking support - $hundreds for a 10-Base2 card. PARnet was great though - still have my homemade A1000 cable. Xetec's SCSI LAN was hairy but very fast
If you still have an A500 in your cupboard, dust it off and plug it in to that TV, have a quick game of Menace, or Xenon 2, or Shadow of the Beast. Shed a quiet tear. You have a ground breaking piece of computer history in your hands. Never let it go.
Try this one:
Executive Update