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Study on RF and Genetic Damage

xeno wrote in to send us a wired article that talks about RF Genetic Damage. Its still a bit fuzzy. The scariest part is that the scary results of this test were actually funded by the cell phone industry. Interesting...

8 of 112 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Get a clue by tgd · · Score: 3

    Before this argument gets any stupider, everyone involved should do their research a bit better. For once an AC is right...

    Check out this URL:
    http://www.colorado.edu/UCB/AcademicAffairs/ArtsSc iences/ physics/PhysicsInitiative/Physics2000/microwaves/i ndex.htm.

    It explains it in really small words for the intellectually challanged.

    BTW -- this reminds me of a book I read like ten years ago, "The Second Creation" I think, that talked about early particle collider research where the researchers would actually stand between the magnetic coils while they were developing the technology, and the enormous magnetic fields would actually start to "polarize" the water in their brains, and they'd see all sorts of wierd hallucinations.

  2. the solution to the cellphone radiation problem... by Jamie+Zawinski · · Score: 3

    ...can be found on this page. It even comes with instructions!

  3. Some issues... by tgd · · Score: 3

    I don't think this should be terribly suprising to anyone -- there's been reports and suspicion about it for a while now.

    The article didn't tell much about HOW they reached those conclusions. The higher incidence of brain tumors for example. This was reported a few years ago, and was deemed non-conclusive, because the sample sets weren't isolated enough to determine that the cell phones were the causative factor. (Ie, if executives are typically using cellphones the most, and they spend most of their time in front of computers, you can't conclusively say one set of factors are the cause vs another). I seem to recall the biggest criticism was that the results then were just statistical results in a set of people who used them a large amount of time, which doesn't prove anything.

    The microcell growth I believe is the result, if I recall correctly, of exposure to higher frequency microwaves, at higher power levels. Ditto with the genetic damage.

    One other thing to keep in mind is that you undergo a significant amount of genetic damage every day -- and the biochemistry in your cells is designed to correct it when it happens. (basically its not a problem unless you happen to tweak both halves of the DNA strand at precisely the same spot in the squence and happen to hit a gene at the same time... a very rare occurance, otherwise simply walking to your car would cause a fatal skin cancer. (There's actually a medical condition where cells in the skin are unable to properly repair the constant damage from the sun, and sufferers of it -- like half a dozen in the US -- could die even from a few minutes in the sun)

    Also keep in mind the prevalance in our environment of dangerous carcinogens, pesticides in the food, the weakening of antibiotics, etc... its a dangerous world we're building for ourselves, so even if a miniscule increase in danger from extended use is proven, in the grand scheme if things it may not really matter. I'm personally not too concerned about it.

    That said, I do get off it when my head starts to heat up. :)

  4. Frequency spectrum by Decibel · · Score: 3

    The article states that cell phones operate at close to the same frequency as microwave ovens, which I'm pretty sure isn't right. Microwaves operate at 10GHz, most cell phones are in the 400 or 800 MHz bands. This should make a dramatic difference in the effects on the human body.

    Think of it as a problem of resonant frequency. You can subject a fine piece of glass to a very high sound pressure level as long as it's not close to it's resonant frequency. Get it close to resonance though, and it will tear itself apart.

    The same is true with RF energy... it will excite molecules, but it will only have a large affect at or near the resonant frequency of the molecule. Because of this, a cell phone should affect a very different set of molecules than a microwave would (microwave ovens are tuned to the resonant frequency of water). This doesn't mean there won't be any overlap of course, but it becomes a question of how much power you're using.

  5. Junk Science by Aaron+M.+Renn · · Score: 3

    George Carlo cannot be believed. Click here to find out one example why. Just reading the story should clue you in to the exceptionally weak evidence here: "suggest a correlation" (we all know that correlation does not imply causation and this guy can't even show a definitive correlation!), "come to the [possible] conclusion", "far from conclusvie", "can't wait around for the slow scientific process", etc. Typical scaremongering by someone hungry to pump up the budget of the organization he runs dedicated to the scare in question.

  6. Just some facts by madengr · · Score: 3

    Microwave ovens operate at 2.45 GHz. This is the first resonance for water molecules. A typical microwave oven radiates 700W. Old cell phones radiate a maximum of 3W at 870 MHz. This is enough to heat the tip of your finger if you were to place it down on the PCB trace at the amplifier output. At most your head would absorb about 1.5 watts next to the antenna. The new PCS phones operate about 1.9 GHz with 500 mW power. I would be much more worried about getting cataracts than brain tumors. This phenomenon has been well documented. Alot of the "old timers" in radar developed cataracts after looking into too many waveguides. BTW 20 watts at 1.9 GHz will burn the sh!t out of your finger. I design RF power amps and kinda get my kicks outta RF burns!

  7. While microwave is not a worry.. by jonathanclark · · Score: 4

    Actually microwave is about 2GHZ (~2.6 for microwave ovens), which is right below RF. Also microwave resonance is about the length of bird. Several environmental impact studies have been conducted on the effects of microwave on bird for this reason. Resonance cause them to heat up faster. When birds overheat in flight they drop their feet to cool off. By putting a bird in a wind tunnel and subjecting it to various levels of microwave, it was determined that power levels less than 50 mW/cm2 (I'm hope that is the right units!) had no effect on the birds. Microwave communication uses power level far less than this.

    These studies did not access the potential of DNA breakage, just effects of heat. Because the length of a microwave is so long it would difficult for it effect DNA (which often results in cancerous growth). You should be much more worried about sunlight, which contains a fair amount of energy in ionizing spectrum. If you are then indoors type, sitting in front a monitor exposes you to x-rays which is also a bad spectrum to be exposed to. Even visible light is higher spectrum than microwave. There is no 100% effective way to avoid radiation induced cancer unless you live in a completely dark lead lined tank. Even then....


    I'm currently looking into using laser/microwave for power transmission on a hobby project. For some links about this subject area, click on my sig. Anyone who has tried this, please write me.. I need help. :)

  8. A better reason to avoid cell phones... by RimRod · · Score: 3

    With a celphone in their ear and hand on the wheel, millions of mild-mannered Americans metamorphosized into some of the worst monsters we face in our society today...bad drivers.

    And don't tell me that you happen to drive perfectly fine while you're on the phone. Scientific studies have been conducted (more trustworthy than this one, I might add) that have already linked cell phones to a hefty decrease in driving performance--almost rivalling that of alcohol at times.

    I know some counties have already banned the use of cellular phones while driving, and I hope the rest of them follow.

    --
    - ...and remember, you can't invade Brainania. It's not on the big map.