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SGI Visual Workstation to run Linux by Year End

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the are-we-there-yet? dept.

Caballero writes "This article on news.com says that SGI will be supporting Linux on their visual workstation products by the end of the year. " The real key is that while current workstations can boot Linux, they aren't really optimized for it. SGI is putting the effort in to let Linux shine on their hardware. We hope.

57 comments

  1. Re:Linux is VWs only hope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Forgive my impertinence for asking, but I just have to --are Adobe and Macromedia taking any interest in the Sgi/Linux project? I mean are they in contact? I hear nothing, just silence from them about Linux. They each put out only a crumb, like Flash player or Acrobat Reader. It's as if Linux didn't exist. Or Microsoft's well-known history didn't exist either.

  2. SGI intentended to run Linux from the start? by Sulka · · Score: 1

    I'm actually starting to wonder whether SGI's true purpose with their new line has been to use Linux as the operating system as opposed to using NT for a longer period of time...

    If the IRIX-Linux convergence runs really well, I guess we can expect to see some of the high-end animation software getting ported over to Linux. And boy would I like that!

    Ooo... Maya...

    --
    "Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."
  3. How about a BeOS port? by grappler · · Score: 2

    That's what I would really like to see. After all, BeOS is the _Media_ OS, made from the ground up with large files, multiprocessing and streaming media in mind. Video editing, rendering, and other visual effects applications using BeOS on an SGI Visual Workstation would be a hard to be combination, don't you think? Are there plans to port BeOS?

    I mean, Linux is great and all, but the only thing I think it has on BeOS in terms of suitability for multimedia type stuff is more applications and better hardware support. (And that is the same one thing that Windows has on Linux for any use.)

    --
    Vidi, Vici, Veni
    1. Re:How about a BeOS port? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's a nice idea, but sgi has no plans for it right now, and remember, SGI's been a unix/irix company for years..linux is not a *huge* change for us..:) be would require many rewrites, and the applications would need to be redeveloped too..linux, so far has been the most workable in that aspect..

      -nate again..:)

    2. Re:How about a BeOS port? by clements · · Score: 1

      Actually, Be, Inc. is a very easy company to work with. A year or so ago I contacted them about doing a port to the Alpha archtecture. If I'd had a real business plan, instead of being some shmo who thought it would be cool to see the BeOS running on the Alpha architecture, I'm sure Be would have let me do the port.

      If SGI contacted Be, and was willing to provide an engineer or two to help with the port, I bet Be would be more than willing to support the Visual Workstations.

      Even though I can't afford it, if the Visual Workstation ran the BeOS, I'd buy one.

      geoff

    3. Re:How about a BeOS port? by kijiki · · Score: 1

      This is one of those examples where the GPL really helps Linux. It allows SGI to port the OS without having to deal with Be, Inc. Much more importantly, since I'm sure Be would be delighted to have SGI port Be, is that SGI needs to keep control over their platform's OS. With Linux, they can always just fork the tree if Linus does something detrimental to their product.

  4. Where are the friggin' moderators?! by jonr · · Score: 1

    grmbl. :(

  5. Re:Impending culture clash? by Per+Abrahamsen · · Score: 1

    The SGI developers responsible for XFS have been very active in the kernel list, so I suspect it will work just like any other large subsystem.

  6. Re:Visual "Workstations" by Wubby · · Score: 1

    Two words: low cost.
    Unfortunate translation: cheap.

    --
    Sig
    Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars
  7. Check it out: by Wubby · · Score: 1

    On SGI's support hot line (800-800-4SGI), it already asks if you are calling about support for NT or Linux. That was a surprise.

    --
    Sig
    Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars
  8. Re:Visual "Workstations" by elyard · · Score: 1

    Both of you are wrong. I suggest you examine the specifications on the Visual Workstations before jumping to the erroneous comclusion that they are anything like Dells or Compaqs.

    The SGI VWS outclasses anything produced by traditional PC manufacturers.

    --

    .oO=----------------------=Oo.

    • IRIX, BeOS, and Mac OS.
  9. SoftImage and all the cool stuff by gavinhall · · Score: 1

    Posted by sUbZ3r0:

    Yeah, that would be great. But SoftImage and Maya aren't SGI's properties, and therefore the companies have to be nice and port it to Linux. Houdini will be ported to Linux, probably other companies will follow. Incertainty is the bottleneck for a lot of companies. Porting is serious business, but seeing hard- and software going in Linux's direction makes companies believe they invest in something that will last for the long term. After all, companies are commercial and will do things that they can benefit of.

    1. Re:SoftImage and all the cool stuff by daviddennis · · Score: 1

      Actually, Alias|Wavefront is a division of SGI, so it would make a lot of sense for them to have a Linux version - at least one that ran on the visual workstation.

      Is BeOS likely to run on the VWS at some point? If it did, I'd be a lot more interested in getting one, since Be multimedia applications (and the overall smoothness of the system) show real promise.

      D

      ----

  10. Re:Irix merging with Linux by Wanker · · Score: 2

    SGI can help Linux out a great deal by providing dedicated hardware which supports some Linux nicities. First on my list would be support for full configuration via the serial port, similar to the SPARC systems from Sun.

    Of course, it's also gratifying to see another vendor promising support for IA-64. This is enough of a radical departure from IA-32 that compiler support will be very tricky. IA-64 requires the compiler to properly order the instructions in order to gain any performance over IA-32. Without a very thorough optimizer, Linux on IA-64 would likely run slower than on IA-32. Since SGI is banking on high performance, it seems likely they'll contribute to EGCS or GCC.

    I'm also looking forward to using XFS on linux. Imagine a logging filesystem with no 2GB file size limits...

  11. Re:if Linux merges with IRIX... by Shinobi · · Score: 1

    Can we say "recode for LIntel"? Can we say "Needs a special X-server AND Windowmanager"? Sure, I knew you could...

    And, when I talked with both tech-people and development-people at Alias|Wavefront(Having worked as a trainee for them has its advantages contact-wise), their answer was that they werent intending to develop Maya or any other tools for Linux, since it isnt as standardized and united as they want it. It would be more realistic for them to port Maya for BeOS for example.

    Anders W - Inquisitor CoJ, Champion of Lady weeanna

  12. Re:Irix merging with Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They'll be openly contributing many improvements to the compilers.

  13. Re:Irix merging with Linux by junkk · · Score: 1

    Hmm,
    Don't we need special name for the Linux on SGI?
    Yes, maybe
    it may be called 'Rinux' if Linux is beneficiary,
    or
    'ILix' in the opposite case. :)

    --
    God knows what I should do. I should know What God let me do.
  14. Re:Better support seems certain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If two penguins when booting up means the 320's SMP is being used, I've seen it, too.

  15. 3D is great, but what about the other stuff? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I haven't touched an SGI in four years, but one of the things that I used more than GL, was ImageVision. I would certianly love to have it or an equivalent to it on Linux. For those not familiar with it, ImageVision is a multithreaded, object oriented image processing library. It would automatically make use of multiple cpus in a machine. Also, if the image being processed was also being displayed on the console, the SGI's graphics hardware would also kick in to help out with some operations. It was great for working with images in the 10s or 100s of megabytes since it would pull in (and cache) only the sections of the input image(s) that were needed for the output. I loved seeing the cpu usage on our 4D480s go from less than 20% to nearly 100% for all 8 cpus whenever one of my IV apps was cranked up. =)

  16. USB keyboard/mouse under NT? by the_tsi · · Score: 1

    The promo material says that this thing ships with a USB keyboard and a USB mouse. How do they get them to work under NT? Anyone have one of these boxen?

    Overall, they're pretty sexy as PCs go, but nothing like other sgi boxes. :)

    -Chris

    1. Re:USB keyboard/mouse under NT? by the_tsi · · Score: 1

      Sounds like incentive to help the Linux USB guy to me... :)

      -Chris

    2. Re:USB keyboard/mouse under NT? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the boxes were designed for NT5.. the firewire and usb ports will not be fully live until then... the sgi engineers whipped up some temporary pseudo-usb drivers to run the devices until NT catches up..:) soo..even other usb devices won't work in these ports till then... but should MS ever wake up, the boxes will be much more usefull..sgi got tired of waiting for the darn OS to be released..:)

      -nate.

  17. Limited support already exists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I work for an animation studio that is heavily into SoftImage and Alias/Maya and I can say that
    Soft already provides a version of it's MentalRay
    Raytracer on SoftImage 3.8 and higher.
    (Actually, to be more to the point, Mental Images, whom SI licenses MR from, did the port and has it hidden away on the 1st CD under "Other Platforms".
    Ask your local droid if it exists and he will deny it, press him on it and they'll grudgingly admit that you can get a license for it. We tried it here and it works just as well as the SGI or NT version does.

    It's really just a matter of time, IMHO. Soft and the like aren't big monolithic programs made by one huge company. Anymore they are more like a framework into which they invite individual 3rd-party vendors to come in and write plug-ins and tools for their software platform.

    It's very much a community effort to get this stuff implemented. If 3rd party vendors want to Linux, but Soft or Alias doesn't you won't get that package(or parts of it) under Linux.
    If all the 3rd party vendors were to write a Linux version of their tool, you would probably be able to pressure Soft into tagging along.
    They each depend on each other too much to just make sweeping cavalier pronouncements that they absolutely will or won't.

  18. Limited support already exists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I work for an animation studio that is heavily into SoftImage and Alias/Maya and I can say that
    Soft already provides a version of it's MentalRay
    Raytracer on SoftImage 3.8 and higher.
    (Actually, to be more to the point, Mental Images, whom SI licenses MR from, did the port and has it hidden away on the 1st CD under "Other Platforms".)
    Ask your local droid if it exists and he will deny it, press him on it and they'll grudgingly admit that you can get a license for it. We tried it here and it works just as well as the SGI or NT version does. So much for that brand new Origin 2K or NT render box.

    It's really just a matter of time, IMHO, before the GUI comes out for Linux. Soft and the like aren't big monolithic programs made by one huge company. Anymore they are more like a framework into which they invite individual 3rd-party vendors to come in and write plug-ins and tools for their software platform.

    It's very much a community effort to get this stuff implemented. If 3rd party vendors want to Linux, but Soft or Alias doesn't you won't get that package(or parts of it) under Linux.
    If all the 3rd party vendors were to write a Linux version of their tool, you would probably be able to pressure Soft into tagging along.
    They each depend on each other too much to just make sweeping cavalier pronouncements that they absolutely will or won't.

  19. Re:PI anyone? by Thagg · · Score: 2

    They don't talk about it too much, but I believe that SGI is funding PI in their DRI effort. Also, SGI open-sourced GLX (their layer between GL and X) back in February, as part of the effort to help Precision Insight (and everybody else) write good Linux OpenGL interfaces.

    So, I suspect that SGI is working with PI closely and will use the DRI.

    thad

    --
    I love Mondays. On a Monday, anything is possible.
  20. Re:OpenGL? by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

    How many will you buy if they do? :-)

    Me? Probably none -- most likely the closest thing I will do in the next two years to what this box is designed for, is some simple work in mechanical CAD, and I'm afraid, it will be an overkill.

    And unless I am terribly wrong, this box is not supposed to be a competitor for x86/alpha/sparc/ppc servers that are already present at the market. This leaves its original target -- high-performance graphics workstations, just not with NT. But to get any advantage over a thing, I can build in an hour from parts, bought in the nearest store for pennies (compared to VW cost) it better should be Really Good with graphics. Otherwise all its expensive hardware will be useless without NT, and the whole effort of porting Linux to it will give no result -- people who need a Linux box with lousy graphics (server, not-really-graphics-oriented desktop -- I am in this category) will get something else because it's cheaper, and people who need high-end graphics, at best (for you) will get VW with NT and at worst will get anything else with more standard or better supported by vendor hardware.

    OTOH if it will be something outstanding as graphics desktop with Linux, people who want high-performance graphics and unixlike OS, will have a choice other than IRIX on MIPS box, yet still produced by SGI, and with all software there.

    --
    Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
  21. OpenGL? by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

    Does this mean that SGI promises that at the end of this year they will have production-quality X and OpenGL with hardware acceleration support on them? Without that those boxes will be kinda pointless to use -- they are graphics-oriented workstations.

    Also is SGI going to do something to get third-party IRIX-based software ported to Linux for those boxes (developers' porting support, conversion library kits)?

    --
    Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    1. Re:OpenGL? by Oddhack · · Score: 1

      > Does this mean that SGI promises that at the end
      > of this year they will have production-quality X
      > and OpenGL with hardware acceleration support on
      > them?

      How many will you buy if they do? :-)

  22. BeOS on Visual Workstation? by elyard · · Score: 1

    I'd buy one in an instant if I knew it would run.

    How much effort would there be in porting something like this, since it seems to be pretty much up to Be to do it.

    --

    .oO=----------------------=Oo.

    • IRIX, BeOS, and Mac OS.
  23. Re:Visual "Workstations" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Uhm.. Visual Workstations are neither low-cost nor "cheap".

    $3500 for a base VW is not what I would call "low-cost".

    If you'd take a look at the Visual Workstation page you'd see that the hardware in the VW smokes anything in the "PC" world, especially in graphics.

    But don't just go off on a rant because you work for a competing company with an inferior product. *grins*


  24. SGI Linux/OpenGL job openings by Oddhack · · Score: 2
    BTW, people interested in Linux on SGI hardware may want to take a look at the SGI employment page. In particular, position #36505: "Linux OpenGL Software Engineer". The manager responsible for this position (it's in a group closely related to the group I'm in) is on vacation for the rest of this week, but if you're interested and have the right skills, please submit a resume now.

    Jon Leech
    SGI Core OpenGL Group

  25. Re:Irix merging with Linux by LL · · Score: 2

    > Imagine Linux running 128 CPUs in the same box with a massive amount of memory.

    As Linus noted, support for more than 4 processors would add unnecessary kernel overhead for uniprocessors. I suspect SGI would include this as one of their value added features of Linux + Irix (somebody better think of a better logo for this rather than a rainbow colored penguin).

    SGI exec team are not stupid (although their marketing guys seem to be rather flat-footed), if OS innovations are being generated faster by an external group (which Linux appears to be at the moment) then it is better to harness the external momentum and build on top of it and reallocate precious staff resources to where it is really needed. Personally I would see great benefits in tuning the GNU compilers to be more aware of the underlying cache systems and their souped up bus (those cache-lines, false sharing, etc) are a pain to manually exploit and also makes the standard code base rather unportable. SGI also has got some nice memory subsystem hardware which could benefit from going mainstream to really sort out that kfluffle between NGIO and FIO.

    Imagine the CPU grunt of an Alpha, the I/O, memory and graphics of an SGI, peripherals of IBM, the pricing of Dell, and the software stability of Linux as your dream box.

    Let each vendor concentrate on their strengths and allow the free market to decide on the worth of their products based on a unencumbered and informed choice!

    LL

  26. USB and Linux by Carlos+Rego · · Score: 1

    As a previous post here said, how does NT works with the USA mouse and Keyboard.. well, how will Linux run ? I belive currently Linux doesn't suport USB (right ? I might be wrong), maybe it's another contribute that will come from SGI, USG for Linux :)

  27. Visual "Workstations" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh wow. Another worthless PC. Why the hell don't they stick to making high quality Unix workstations rather than becoming like Dell or fucking Compaq. Screw Intel and Windows. Professionals don't want or need that junk. If it's SGI and it runs NT then I don't want to even look at it. Compaq basically ruined Digital, SGI is next.

  28. URL mis-typing by MrEd · · Score: 1

    The SGI URL was mistyped in the story

    --

    Wah!

  29. nifty... by pandrax · · Score: 1

    it's nice to see that sgi is making a fuller commitment to linux than was "announced" by so many people. it's one thing to hear a rumor that certain companies are "switching efforts to linux," but it's a lot better to actually see this. Sometimes both sides of the win/linux platform war are guilty of 'vaporware,' but usually linux has no problem with these seemingly empty rumors or announcements..

    --
    --- pandrax-
    1. Re:nifty... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      these are workstation/pc hybrids. What workstation apps are going to be used on them? I mean ones that make use of the _workstaion_ part ie, the cobalt graphics subsys? Anyone?

    2. Re:nifty... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Er, I should have made it plain I was asking about apps running in Linux. I would like to buy one,--baby wants to sgi!-- but of course the available apps dominate all other considerations. I think it would nearly break my heart to have to dual-boot one of these.

  30. PI anyone? by Straker+Skunk · · Score: 3

    Does anyone know if SGI plans to use Precision Insight's direct rendering pipeline (XFree86 4.0, IOW) on the VW's, when the Linux support is ready? Or will all the work be done through a custom-built X server?

    Without the pipeline infrastructure, it wouldn't be possible to render [as fast as possible] to an X window, wouldn't it?

    --
    iSKUNK!
    1. Re:PI anyone? by Gumber · · Score: 1

      I think SGI has their own technology for rendering quickly to an X-window, since that has been a lot of their business.

      I think though that they have opened a lot of this technology and it may actually be part of the Xfree effort.

      Nevertheless, I wouldn't be suprised if full support for their display is only available in binary-only form.

    2. Re:PI anyone? by Caballero · · Score: 2
      A lot of what we're doing in direct rendering is based on the work SGI has done in the past. Their hardware and software supports the equivalent of our direct rendering.

      sgi provided GLX to the open source community, and we integrated it into XFree. They are also funding some of our work.

      I don't know if they are using our framework for the visual workstation, but regardless, I'm sure it'll perform well.

      - |Daryll

    3. Re:PI anyone? by Oddhack · · Score: 3
      > They don't talk about it too much, but I believe that SGI is funding PI in their DRI effort.

      That's right (jointly funded together with Red Hat, actually). I've also put together a group to define compile and runtime standards for OpenGL and Mesa on Linux, so that no matter what the underlying OpenGL driver (DRI, commercial from Metro Link or Xi, etc.), apps can run cleanly. This will be important in 6 months or so, as more hardware drivers become available.

      Jon Leech
      SGI Core OpenGL Group

  31. Irix merging with Linux by Rayban · · Score: 2

    The article mentions that Irix and Linux will converge in the future. Is it just me, or is this a really good thing? Irix has a lot it can bring to Linux. Hopefully this starts catching with all the other major Unix vendors and they start looking to it as a common ground for technology.

    Imagine Linux running 128 CPUs in the same box with a massive amount of memory.

    /me drools

    --
    æeee!
  32. best news ive heard today. by Zebulun · · Score: 1

    As much as I like NT (like a rash where the sun dont shine), Linux would make the SGI VisualStation an awesome tool in many UNIX-based development environments. We have one in the office im at, and despite its simply awesome graphics capabilities, its not used very much as the current SGI UNIX machines are the perferred choice of my fellow developers (and Im sure sysops would find this a blessing, as our sysop can attest to, getting our NT and IRIX networks to blend well consumes most of his time).

    -Z

    --
    I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going.
  33. SGI URL Wrong by Caballero · · Score: 1
    There's a typo in the SGI URL. (oops my bad)

    visual workstation products

    - |Daryll

  34. I really hope SGI gets rockin' on this! by stryemer · · Score: 3

    I just got one of these babies, and I hope that SGI will get going on the port! Right now there's a website under SGI's domain with info on Linux for their various systems.

    http://www.linux.sgi.com/

    The good news:

    It runs (Yea!)

    It will display on the flat screen (YES!)

    The bad news:

    It needs an IDE (no SCSI)

    No X acceleration

    No OpenGL acceleration

    "Very little" PCI card support

    I'm loading it when I get my next paycheck and I can pick up an IDE drive! I'll keep you all informed...


    -Stryemer
    We are the music makers,
    and we are the dreamers of the dream.
    --
    -Stryemer

    We are the music makers,
    and we are the dreamers of the dream.
  35. Re:Linux is VWs only hope by corinath · · Score: 1

    I just got one of the 320's. I won the one from COMDEX/Spring. It IS a sweet machine. With any luck SGI will eventually lisence the design for the bus and such to the rest of the world and perhaps they will start using this design. I feel that this is a MUCH better architecture than what we currently call PCs. IMHO.

    --
    Hockey - Canada's gift to the world
  36. Nice... by mholve · · Score: 1

    ...but call me when it's more than "just running." If it ain't optimized, then there's no sense in buying an SGI Intel box for that kind of money. Go get a real workstation, like the O2/Octane.

  37. Re:Linux is VWs only hope by Oddhack · · Score: 1
    This is just FUD pushed by competitors like Intergraph. You can buy memory for the Visual Workstations at Kingston and other 3rd party vendors. Much of the I/O, including things like Firewire and video, is built in so no addon cards are needed to begin with. The machine uses standard USB keyboards and mice, standard hard disks, standard monitors, etc.

    Yes, the VW are not standard white boxes using an Intel motherboard - the Cobalt graphics hardware precludes that. If all you want is a run of the mill PC, they're easy enough to find.

  38. Better support seems certain by Christopher+Bibbs · · Score: 2

    Now I haven't seen anything officially, but when I was at the SGI offices last week I could have sworn I heard something about moving the video support beyond the simple frame buffer. When I asked about it, something about a NDA was mumbled.

    I'm also pretty certain I saw it running in SMP mode, but the memory detection didn't appear to be correct.

    Holding your LUG meeting at SGI has certain advantages.

  39. if Linux merges with IRIX... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that means all the super powered 3D apps
    like Alias Maya and Softimage will run
    on Linux!!! Like they say...."KICK ASS!!"

  40. Impending culture clash? by itp · · Score: 1

    One of the things that caught my attention in this article was all of the talk about SGI working with Linux, Irix and Linux converging, etc. When SGI released XFS, many people on different forums assumed that this code would drop right on in and become the new Linux file system. The reality, of course, is that much hacking remains before this goes in, if this goes in, to the Linux kernel proper.

    I've got to wonder about what will happen as code contributions come increasingly from corporations dropping large bundles into our laps, as opposed to small patches here and there, or a recognized kernel hacker, who already knows how things work, and how Linus prefers code, setting out to rewrite something.

    There was a lot of talk about the Linus burnouts during the 2.1.x process, and I don't know if large contributions like XFS would help or hinder this. Hopefully, we'll see corporations get better at contributing to Linux, as well as see our beloved kernel hackers get better at working with corporations.

    --
    Ian Peters

    1. Re:Impending culture clash? by sterwill · · Score: 1

      I believe the primary reason XFS hasn't "dropped right in" is because it hasn't been released yet, let alone with a license which allows use by GPLed code. If I missed the proper release, please let me know.

  41. Linux is VWs only hope by FigWig · · Score: 2

    The only hope of making the VW really useful is to get Linux fully working. With any luck Linux will actually provide USB support beyond the stinking keyboard/mouse combo.

    Of course even then the VW is only marginally useful. One empty 64-bit PCI (how many 64-bit cards are out there?), non-standard memory and bus all add up to make the VWs fun machines to play with, but an expensive nightmare to maintain and make usable.

    --
    Scuttlemonkey is a troll
  42. Of course ... by Felchmeister · · Score: 0

    Of course, if SGI were an *English* company, they would have been running Linux on their system *years* ago!

    --

  43. Intergraph by Bill+Currie · · Score: 1

    I've got one of their boxes (something 6000 IIRC) with no memory. When I asked them about it, I was told I had to buy the memory directly from them (proprietary memory, pc stuff wouldn't work). Is this true (ie buying from IG), or can I use 36 bit memory (it takes 72 pin simms) like DECpc's seem to need (got to talk to my contact there)? I'ld like to get this beast working as a server/grunt machine (I don't have the keyboard/mouse/screen for it).

    --

    Bill - aka taniwha
    --
    Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak

  44. Re:Of course ... damn right!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


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    Damn right!!!