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Ask Slashdot: What Quicktime Format for X-Platform?
Harry Zink
asks: "Since there is no Linux solution for playing
Apple's QuickTime 4 movies, I'm trying to offer to some of
my clients (which do movie sites) versions of their
trailers in a QuickTime format that *can* be viewed by
Linux users (and, in fact, it should be listed as 'for
Linux) - key query here being: What is the best QuickTime
format and compressor for that purpose? What viewers exist
on the Linux platform to view QuickTime, and what codecs do
they support?" Let's change "Linux" to "cross-platform",
here. There are several OSes that are also in the same boat
as Linux when it comes to QuickTime support. It's sad
how, up to QT4, QuickTime was known as the cross-platform
multimedia format, but now it's gone the same route
as AVI. Can QT compete? Should Apple rethink it's position
and open up QT4? I certainly would like such a move.
Looks like this still hasn't been resolved...
http://xanim.va.pubnix.com/home.html
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XAnim 2.80.0 is now ready for consumption. In addition to several new video codecs, the new revision also supports dynamically loadable video decompression libraries. This means you no
longer need to recompile xanim each time a new video codec is released or upgraded. There are currently dll's for: Creative CYUV, Radius Cinepak, Intel Indeo 3.2, Intel Indeo 4.1, Intel Indeo
5.0, CCITT H.261 and CCITT H.263.
There is a new Star Wars trailer that has been recently released and it uses the currently unsupported Sorenson Video codec. I have contacted Sorenson about licensing their codec. They
responded that Apple won't allow them to license it to others. You may want to nicely send a single email message to Sorenson and Apple asking about unix and/or xanim support for the
Sorenson video codec.
For the record, I would gladly add support for Sorenson if allowed to. Same goes for all other currently unsupported video/audio codecs.
Also I'd like to thank all of those who sent me coins from around the world for my collection. I appreciate the time and effort you took to send those. It helps keep me going. Thanks again.
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Heh, main reason I posted this is that I can't watch some of the movies at: http://members.aol.com/moseisleym/sw-main.html
-- Erich
Slashdot reader since 1997
However, I'll also admit that for certain software, it's worth paying. For example, I bought Civilization: Call to Power, and I plan on buying Myth 2. There's nothing wrong with paying for software, but I refuse - refuse - to become tied irrevocably to proprietary software.
That being said, I can't see how Sorenson are making a lot of money off of the hordes of people who aren't buying Quicktime 4 for Windows and MacOS. I know that on 100% of the computers I've ever seen with Quicktime 4 installed, it gives you that annoying, evil little "Please buy me" message.
Also, as someone previously pointed out, Apple is, uh, a lot bigger than Real Networks, and Real manages to get a Linux client for RealPlayer out, including their ever-so-proprietary codecs.
I don't particularly know why Apple and Sorenson can't seem to port their client to Linux, and I don't know why Apple won't let the xvideo guy use even a proprietary codec for us. It's a case of a wannabe monopolist, probably.
Umm. all those "free software people" innovate all the time. And even if they didn't, what do you think Microsoft does? They buy, lie, beg, cheat and steal for their software. If you don't believe me, I could give examples (programs with non-innovative names and designs such as Windows, Money, Explorer, etc., etc.) but I'd rather give the positive examples, like C, or X-Windows, or frickin' *disk quotas*... (I don't know who 'invented' that one, but I know that Microsoft still hasn't implemented it, but won't until at least NT 5.0, when they start corrupting many innovative open standards made by those bothersome 'free software people'...)
As for audio and video, there isn't a whole lot of community knowledge about this. Actually, with mp3's, there's getting to be more people programming encoders and decoders for that, which is promising. But there has already been much time and money spent by corporations with deep pockets and many software patents in this field, and that makes things difficult.
So, I agree that there hasn't been a whole lot of free software audio/video innovation, per se, but we already have three major formats, with many versions and codecs, and some of them are open. But please don't say that because of this, free software isn't innovative, because that's simply wrong. It has to reimplement proprietary 'standards', but that should not be confused with always copying other people's implementations. Rather, it is providing open support for someone else's brain-dead protocols and formats, when they didn't have the courtesy to do it themselves. Got that?
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
Cinepak is the codec of choice for Linux viewing, followed by JPEG Photo. Cinepak only plays on XAnim with no stereo sound. JPEG Photo plays on XAnim and XMovie with stereo sound but requires twice the bandwidth. Whatever the contract, be sure to use 10fps, normalized sound, and at least 240x180. Always encode audio using IMA4 never ever QDesign.
For the past 6 years, maybe more, Apple has been promising pre-emptive multitasking and protected memory "just two years from now". Hasn't happened yet.
If Apple can actually stick to their current path, they'll be a much better company. But I doubt that'll happen.
--
http://www.wholepop.com/
Whole Pop Magazine Online - Pop Culture
http://www.wholepop.com/
Whole Pop Magazine Online - Pop Culture
A miocrosoft employee once pointed out that all the free software people ever do is copy existing implementations they never innovate.
Unfortunatly this seems to be right in a good deal of cases. What we really should be trying to do is construct an open video compresion codec that has similar quality to sorenson...as we should to with mp3 and all sorts of other formats.
Free software succeded with bzip2 bringing free and superior conresion to linux surely we have people bright enough to do the same thing with video and audio.
Marriage is the "pseudo-ethics" that cloaks the messy truth of sexuality in the raiment of propriety -- it's "Don't Ask,
Some might find this interesting... this was the last is a brief series of communications I had with Apple early this past April regarding them waking up, smelling the coffee, and actively pursuing the proliferation of the full QT playback engine. This was spurred by the Sorenson-only Star Wars trailer that had just been released.
What I gleaned from this is that, with Sorenson, they are essentially trying to out-Microsoft Microsoft. They are a generation behind in realizing that Microsoft itself is doomed at the hands of open formats.
Subject: Re: Open QT Plea
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:17:39 -0700
From: Steve Bannerman
To: Practice Corporation
The conclusion we have drawn is that what you really want is for Sorenson to work with other multimedia architectures besides QT. This is a sitcky issue. As you know, we have an exclusive arrangement with Sorenson for QT. This arrangement is based more on Marketing and business issues than it is on technological ones.
I am broaching the subject with executive mgmt, but this is going to require a shift in our corporate philosophy that has significant ramifications in outher areas. We need to fully understand all these issues before we leap into action. In other words, we will not have a resolution to this issue overnight...
steve
Unfortunately, the situation for standard high quality video formats isn't all that great. But MPEG1 may be an OK choice. MPEG2 is more encumbered (but mainly added support for interlacing), and MPEG4 is both a technical mess and very much caught up in patent issues.
So, I'd use MPEG1. MPEG2 may be acceptable given that there are open source players, but it's patent situation is iffy. If I had to choose a proprietary format that's owned by an independent company that doesn't have a hardware or software axe to grind.
But, perhaps, even more importantly: are you sure you even want to put videos on your site?
Agreed. One of the reasons that MP3 has gone so far is because it is cross-platform. The same holds true with the realplayer. RealNetworks has gained support because they have a player for linux, mac & windows. If Apple wants to get ahead with quicktime, then they need to be sure that their format runs on any platform. Apple can gain an edge by porting to all platforms possible. Microsoft is going to stay behind because they won't write software for other platforms. This is keyt to gaining industry-wide support. Is having your streaming software run only on one platform better because you push and push your OS on everyone you can? Or is it simply better to support it on multiple platforms because you know that its less likely that you'll have 100% OS market domination?
Speaking of MPEG, does anyone know of any *nix software that can actually *compress* MPEG movies? I'm sure there is some, but it doesn't seem to be quite as publicised as it probably should. I do a lot of POV-ray animations, and find myself compiling GIF animations to view them under Linux, which is just about the silliest animation format ever made. When I do a final render, I have to reboot into MacOS and use a shareware program called Moover to compile the frames into Quicktime. This is quite possibly the most annoying operation ever, and would very much like some software that I could use under Linux that could turn a bunch of frame images into an MPEG movie.
...)
Look on Freshmeat today. Somebody just posted something called "MPEG Tools 1.0" which is a collection of various tools from around the internet for encoding MPEG-1 files (with all the cool stuff like stereo sound,
"Software is like sex- the best is for free"
Basically none of the modern low-bitrate CODECs are available for Linux for any video format. The only exception that I know of is Telenor's H.263 implementation, which is open-source and which xanim supports for AVI.
w are/
http://www.fou.telenor.no/brukere/DVC/h263_soft
The other option is MPEG1, which is really currently the best choice for multi-platform compressed video.
Yet, not an Apple-related thread goes by without Linuxers ranting about the company. First the complaints were about Apple being a closed, proprietary company. Then they released Darwin, and many complained that it was not going far enough. Then they made a usable system out of it, and there were complaints that it's inferior to Linux. They open-sourced the QuickTime Streaming Server, something they could have made money from, and now many are complaining that they don't make a Linux client. It does not seem to matter to anyone that the server has already been ported to Linux (and integrated into Apple's source tree), effectively creating competition that Apple did not need to have. All some people care about is what they don't have.
As someone who follows Apple very closely, I believe that QuickTime is the most important technology the company has. It is vital to the company's continued resurgence that QuickTime do better than RealPlayer and Windows Media Player. The company makes tools for creating content and devices for viewing and interacting with it. Therefore as Linux becomes more viable on the desktop, it is essential that they support it. It does not take an insider connection to infer that they will do so for that reason (although it helps... ;-)).
Before they can do this however, they need to give themselves a head start (they ARE a company, after all). Right now they must give QuickTime for MacOS X 100% parity with the traditional MacOS and Win32 versions. Not to mention any other new features they might be working on...
So just for once, I ask you all to give Apple a chance to prove itself. They are not the evil company you think they are. I won't get into why they were a "closed" company in the first place (has a lot to do with history and the way companies used to be organized), but the fact is that they're trying to be open now. So don't discourage them, ok?
-Rafi Remove the Spanish to email me.
Well, I don't really care about watching movies.. I want access to the bitstream so that I can do image processing!
I've yet to find a well-documented video API under linux... makes developing certain (cool ) applications very very difficult! I've just been doing "raw" videos... Not very good for displaying due to I/O restrictions, and not very good for your HD, but gimme something better and I'll use it!
That being said, Sorenson compression seems to be the "cleanest" format out there (counting formats that do any decent compression), and I'm deeply saddened that its "protected" under US patent law.
The author of xanim had something about talking to apple about (not)letting him implement it a while back, but no go... apple won't let go.
Those interested in playing back MPEG 1 videos with sound on Linux might want to check out: http://www.lokigames.com/opensource/opensource.htm l. Source is available under the LGPL.
Scott Draeker
President
Loki Entertainment Software