SuSE 6.2 in August

Desperado wrote in to tell us that according to This InfoWeek Story, the 6.2 release of SuSE is scheduled for August and will have new/updated packages including IBM's ViaVoice, XF86 3.3.4 and VMware 1.0.

Comments

vmware included

[DataDevil]

"Such programs include VMware 1.0, a shareware program"
Excuse me, but if people want to try this out and pay for it, can't they just download it themselves? It's not to big and all, and why do we put shareware(==buyware) on cd's you already paid more then enuff for?
Is it me, or Debian the only distribution really understanding Linux spirit?

Re:vmware included

[Stonehand]

...because if it's bundled, they can spend the time making sure it works with their configuration? That makes it easier on the less-geeky users who

a) might not have network connections, or find PPP setup confusing

b) have never installed a program in their life (*lots* of people) and really don't want to learn how, particularly when there may be interesting configuration issues.

Think about it. There are people who want to try Linux, but have no idea about how to administer such a system. If they're coming from the Win9X side, they'll probably be expecting things like "InstallShield" -- and even that probably confuses people. These are probably not people who want to learn the ins and outs of package managers, or even what ".tgz" means.

Re:vmware included

[abba fan]

Only an American, i.e. someone blessed with being from the land of the free local phone call, would think that strange. In Europe, every download represents a cash investment. SuSE just saves on expensive phone calls.

Re:vmware included

[mwillis]

I think European connectivity is not as cheap/common as it is in North America. Remember SuSE is from Europe. There are lots of nasty telco monopolies charging for net connectivity by the minute. So downloading stuff may end up being really expensive in comparison to getting it all on one CD.

Only GPL is good all else is evil...NO

[Phelan]

Shareware has been one of the driving forces in software development for years...

Think of how many great products (well mostly for the dos/windows market) there are out there which are shareware or donationware? How many companies SOLY rely on shareware that are now power houses? McAfee and such. People which are just in a "if its not GPL it ain't good" frenzy are ignorant of products which are of high quality but don't offer source code. Such ignorance might very well be what will one day bring an end to the linux movement. I sure don't hope so. But please broden your horizon shareware is the easiest way of distributing small software utilities which have to pay the rent.

Re:Dream on

[Fizgig]

That was very interesting. I use Linux as my desktop, but you're right, it probably is more for the geek factor than usefulness. Things are certainly improving (as you note). One question about this line:

Some of the Linux desktops (using E and Wmaker, for example) look good in screenshots, but very little thought or work has been put into functionality and modularity.

Why do you say they're not modular, at least as compared to Windows? Perhaps they're not as modular as, say, the GNU command-line tools, but for GUIs (I know they're not GUIs, but that's the best generalization I can come up with) they seem to be doing pretty well (WindowMaker's dock and In what way do you mean they lack modularity? It's not that I don't believe you--I just don't understand your use of the term.

Re:SuSE Works fine if know Linux :)

[Eric Green]

YaST also continues to be the reason why the typical Debian or Redhat purist slams SuSE, since YaST is non-free software. But then, Europeans have never been particularly interested in freedom, right? It's interesting that the only people beating the drums for free software (free as in 'freedom') seem to be Americans :-(. But then, we have the Borg of Redmond to teach us what non-free software becomes when unchecked by licenses such as the GNU Public License.

-E

Re:Linux competition is GREAT!!!

[Fizgig]

Well, I remember Red Hat announcing that the expensive version of 6.0 would have ViaVoice. And it's not free for SuSE or Red Hat. You can't redistribute it and must pay to get the package.

Re: Free vs. non-free (was: Bloat...)

[Chris L. Mason]

I have now seen the complaint about non-free software not being properly "segregated" several times. I do not feel this is a fair criticism of SuSE Linux. In fact, I believe SuSE is one of the better distributions in this respect.

When choosing packages to install in SuSE (eithing during installation or later using YaST), the installer is very explicit about informing you if you choose a package that is non-free. Also, most of the commercial software is put into its own section (pay.)

For example, when you choose a package for installation, in many cases a pop-up box will appear informing you of something. This includes:

• Copyright Notices: For example, you get these if you choose blender, MuPAD, etc.
• Demo versions: These are clearly indicated as such. Examples include executor (Mac emulator), ARCAD (a CAD system, and it even tells you that the limitation is that you can't save), etc.
• Library licensing issues: xforms, qtdevel (yes I know this is no longer an issue with 2.0)

These are just a few examples, but I have found that any software that is shareware, commercial or has a strange license will produce a warning.

On another note, SuSE also warns you about software that is alpha quality or not stable. They did this with some version of gnome, for example (and also with some kde packages too, just so you know they're not biased. :)

Re:Bloat, bloat, bloat

[Stonehand]

Errrrr, I really, really doubt that SuSE forces users to install the additional packages. It's not like a sane system would impose dependencies upon vmware, say, for everyday work. 'sides, in the past you could get a single-CD GPL'd version of SuSE from Cheapbytes, etc, and there's little reason to think they've broken from that practice. Is one CD bloat, and tomsrbt the ultimate general-purpose distro that matches the bulk of everybody's needs? No.

Suppose, say, you get an InfoMagic several-CD archive with multiple distros and TSX and Sunsite mirrors. Does that force you to install everything? No. It *allows* you to do so, but doesn't *make* you. By bundling w/ the distro, presumably they can use their package manager (an RPM branch, IIRC) and make it easier for you to *choose* to do so.

Then what's the difference, and what are you complaining about?

Why not download?

[Anonymous Coward]

Excuse me, but if people want to try this out and pay for it, can't they just download it themselves? It's not to big and all, and why do we put shareware(==buyware) on cd's you already paid more then enuff for?
Is it me, or Debian the only distribution really understanding Linux spirit?

Actually, you don't understand the Linux spirit. The spirit is that you can download everything, not that you must. I purchased 6.1, and will purchase 6.2, because of the convenience. It's

• easer to do a fresh install on a new system
• faster to grab the code
• easier to get everything working together
• convenient to have yast to help tie it all in
• really nice not to have to determine what to download (i.e. I was able to try out four different X-Servers last week, in one day, without any downloading/compiling.)

I realize those of us with time-pressuring jobs trying to use Linux in the mainstream have different need than you. SuSE is great for us. It may be irrelevant for you... except that I will be hiring for Linux skills inside the next two weeks, something that wouldn't have a chance of happening if Linux were not as easy as SuSE or RedHat to get/install.

Regards

SuSE in General

[Vskye]

Peronally, I find it amusing about all of the gripes about this distrib. So, it comes with a ton of "optionally" installed software..., wow, you get to *choose* what you want to install. (?)

I've ran SuSE since around 5.1, and although I don't go out of my way to buy *every* release, (went from 5.3 to 6.1 recently) it's still an option for those that don't like to upgrade via ftp or source. My current 6.1 is running the latest kernel, updated .src, etc. I also use Vmware, no problems..., no need for Real Audio though. I also use RH 6 at work, each of which have their good and bad points.

My point? Just once I'd like to read about Linux (all distribs) in a positive note vs all the *BS* about what is better at what! Ala, if you don't want to install this or that, then DON'T! It's not that complicated. This crap reminds me of the OS/2 vs Windows debate, except we're bitching amongist ourselves. (right into MS's hands!!)


Dana

Re:they haven't even fixed 6.1 yet!

[rlk]

There needs to be a balance between fixing bugs forever and doing releases constantly. I personally have yet to see where SuSE has fallen down on that. If anything, it's a bit annoying that SuSE tends to lag other releases (2.2 kernel, glibc2, glibc2.1). Other stuff is apparently also a few releases behind (Gimp, for example). On the other hand, they've led the pack with XFree86 and ISDN (not that that's very useful to me or popular in the US, but I gather it's a big plus in Europe).

However, as far as stability, I've found it excellent. And there's a lot to be said for having the kitchen sink on the CD. Downloading and building stuff for the sake of downloading and building gets really tedious.

"Telnet is so slow..." -- what precisely is slow about it? Is it slow making the initial connection, slow at receiving output from the remote, or what? Is it inbound or outbound that's slow? Are you using a dialup or ethernet? What about your nameserver configuration?

I disagree about the manual; I think it's one of the best ones around. Certainly it's obvious that it's translated from German, with the occasional mistakes, German words or phrases, European phone numbers, and so forth, but everything I've read has been crystal clear, and the manual itself is exceptionally well produced (in terms of quality of paper, binding, and printing). To take one example, the description of how to set up PPP is actually clear and comprehensive.

All that aside (obviously I like SuSE), it's not for everyone. If you prefer Debian, that's what you should use. That's one of the big joys of Linux, choice! There's room for a lot of distributions, and it's nice to see Red Hat and SuSE going after each other (in the market) so aggressively.

Although I do wish they'd work with Linus to get their kernel additions (mostly drivers) back into the mainline. I hate trying to maintain two vendor branches in my CVS repository, and merging my own hacks back into both...

Linux competition is GREAT!!!

[SpinyNorman]

Wow! Voice recognition and Simultaneous Linux/Windows (VMWare), plus an office suite!!

Never mind GIMP, LyX/KLyX, choice of GNOME/KDE...

And all for free!

Now what does Windows come with:

Voice recognition? No
VMWare? No
Photoshop? No
Microsoft Office? No
Wordperfect? No
PageMaker? No
Choice of desktops? No
Development tools? No
Full source code? No
An $80 price tag? Yes

So much for the "no apps for Linux" crap!

It'll be interesting to see how RedHat responds to the SuSe, Mandrake, Caldera etc competition.

One thing is for sure: all this competition is driving Linux forwards at warp speed, and kicking Window's sorry ass!!!

I'd better get my RHAT shares! :)