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Sun May Buy StarDivision
ChrisRijk writes "The Register is
reporting that according to the German mag c't, next month Sun will buy
StarDivision, whose major product is StarOffice. With Sun's financial and development resources behind it, StarOffice could rapidly become a worthy competitor to MS Office, especially in multiple-platform environments. The idea of having a major office productivity suite that looks and feels the same no matter which OS is beneath it is simply too good to be denied. But this is just a rumor report (albeit a well-sourced one), so don't get too excited yet.
Well, I think one of two major things is going to happen here if it is true.
1) Sun will not release a new version of SO for quite some time while they fix the bugs and make it faster. Then release a kick butt product, a Solaris of the Office software world.
or
2) It will die a horrible flaming death like HotJava and the JavaStation.
One of my feeling due to this news is that Sun is trying to become completely self contained, or as close as they can. The close alliance with Netscape provides a browser, and the acquisition of SO would provide an office product. This way they don't have to worry about buying licenses from Corel for WordPerfect. Hardware, OS, programing apps, productivity apps, and internet connectivity all in one bundle.
Due to the fact that I don't see any alliance with Corel coming anytime soon I think that Sun is going to put some effert into this product. One of the reasons HotJava died, other than being a crappy product, was that Sun had to support Netscape in the browser market, and couldn't do that if they were devolping and releasing their own product.
As someone else pointed out, they want something very big that is programed in Pure Java that they can showcase. Also, someone else mentioned that they thought that SO was already programed in Java, but I have heard several people mention that it is buggy and slow. If Sun does want to show off Java, and wants to use SO to do this they aren't going to be satisfied until it isn't buggy and slow. Also, in order for them to infiltrate a market dominated by Corel and MS they are going to NEED to make this product free. Especially due to the fact that Corel gives WordPerfect 8 out to Linux users for free right now.
If this is true we may have a very interesting Sun Star Office out there in a year or two. Or it may dissapear all together.
Disclamer - Opinion of Person
If this is true, and Sun standardizes on StarOffice internally, it will just sink Applix completely. Sun is their biggest customer.
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
you mention that people use an app because, among other reasons, it's what they are given at work. Now, imagine a company that, like most of my customers, uses Macs, Unix, and Windows. Now look at StarOffice being the same interface, writing the same file formats, etc. on all those platforms. "Nice," says the IT Manager. Now add the fact that StarOffice can import and export MS formats, and viola! An IT Manager's dream: an office suite that's reasonably priced, multi-platform, and MS-interoperable.
And, if you want to migrate a Win user to, say, Linux... you don't have to have them re-learn the office suite. Users like that!
Me, I'd bet on great sales increases on the corporate end...
Then again, I could be completely wrong... these things happen :P
Posted by the Proteus
We may not imagine how our lives could be more frustrating and complex—but Congress can. – Cullen Hightower
I have been toying with it and so far, my impressions are very mixed. It manages to convert the most complex Word and Excel documents with nary a sputter. For someone trying to migrate away from MS, this is a Very Good Thing. OTOH, its S L O W on every machine I test it on. VERY SLOW. These are PII's with lots of RAM and both 2.0.36 and 2.2.10 kernels, good video. Its got enough features to make me happy. OTOH, I can't resolve printing issues (it seems to be trying to use lpstat for something) to my network printers. It installs quicker and easier than MS Office, once you get the quirks of the installer worked out (permissions strangeness in my case). It uses Java - hence Sun's interest, but I am not sure that I am completely thrilled with that. Internet integration is tight - not too sure about that, either. Call me crazy but I like Netscape, I don't want my office suite surfing.
At any rate, I see a great product, if StarDivision will take an effort to fix some of the strangeness and really make it a top-notch competitor to Office. I hope Sun will buy them and work to make a great product.
ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
I used to hate PC clones and revere Genuine IBM(tm) systems. To me, a company that makes a copy of something and sell it is just, well, less than human, an entity without a soul.
... well, imitations aren't my cup of tea. Maybe that's why I still prefer Irix to Linux? More likely, it's those godawful fonts. If Microsoft Office for Linux put half-decent fonts into the OS without the current incomprehensible hassle, I might even get it.
I feel that way about StarOffice. I respect their competence and wonder about the effort they put into making every aspect of their software look and feel like Office. But I feel they don't have a soul, their software is but a mindless copy of the market leader.
Now, it doesn't have much to do with the user interface. I don't mind KDE because there are a lot of nice improvements, a lot of cool touches that make the interface theirs. But StarOffice is a mindless copy of Microsoft Office. It's like letting the Borg into your Linux Box.
There's just something about it that gives me the creeps.
So I run GoBe Productive on the BeOS, which I love because it isn't a copy of anything. Now if I could just use it to read Office(tm) documents, I'd be happy.
Incidentally, I still don't think much of clones. Not a popular sentiment around here, but
Except for one problem: Microsoft's fonts aren't so hot either.
Forget it.
D
----
... especially compared to the other offerings. Hopefully, if Sun does buy it, they won't kill the OS/2 version.
Timur Tabi
Remove "nospam_" from email address
Most of the mass in the Unix version of star office is some honking-huge windows porting library sitting on top of motif. You could get rid of all that stuff if you rewrote it in Java, and you could do it in Swing - hence no evil GUI porting problems.
The problem we-all-know-who-they-are had writing a Java office suite was primarily the AWT, which, like the system SO is based on, has a honking huge amount of wrapper code to make the GUI portable. Now Swing exists, it might be worth a second look.
I have seen office-suite-size applications written in Java using Swing, and they look a lot more acceptable than -office did.
The truth is that Slashdot is run by a couple of guys who don't care what you think if you don't think like they do. Not that there's anything wrong with that per se, but anyone who thinks that the Slashdot editors are true representatives of the geek community is naive. Unfortunately, that includes the mainstream computer press.
Timur Tabi
Remove "nospam_" from email address
A lot of you are missing the point here. Sun needs Staroffice.
Here's why: The PC card for Sun servers never worked well, and Sun wants to sell their Ultra5 and 10 workstations into the Windows NT developer workstation market. In order to compete here, they need to read/write MSOffice doc formats.
Software emulation of Windows really sucks. Sorry, but soft-PC isn't a good solution.
Bundling a PC-on-card sucks, too because
1) Windows sucks
2) Who wants to flip back and forth between unix and a windows box
3) user still needs to buy Windows and MS Office
4) hardware compatibility issues
so, the only obvious solution is for them to bundle an Office suite with their servers (sure would be nice to get StarOffice with Solaris...)
Staroffice isn't perfect. IMNSHO, it tries too hard to be Windows95, and it was obviously ported from win32 with a porting kit, but it's high on usability and ability to convert document formats to standard html
It's grown on me, and I now find that a staroffice desktop can keep me from having to vnc to a windows machine.
I'd say it's a good move for Sun, and Microsoft should be scared of the spectre of SUN OFFICE!
slashdotters should be worried about future cross-platform support of Staroffice, licensing terms, and a staroffice re-written in Java.
I think that kind of move makes sense. Unfortunately, even though their system software is quite good, Sun doesn't seem to be very good at end-user applications. Even their development environments were only so-so. But, of course, a purchase like this could change that.
The goal would be to work to disrupt the MicroSoft cash flow by creating a consortium of Lotus, Novell, Corel, StarOffice, Adobe, Oracle, and others to make a standardized, testable, and brandable file format that would allow new add on products and to cut of the monopoly profits from Office.
That kind of exclusionary collusion is illegal, because it amounts to forming a software cartel. And Microsoft would implement an import filter for the new format as quickly as it became public.
Even though I'm a Sun bigot (and came by it honestly), this could well be the death knell for StarOffice, and if StarOffice falls, Linux chances become much slimmer.
Doesn't anyone remember that Sun already bought a world-class OO office suite about two years ago, and then proceeded to completely bury it? (They bought Lighthouse Design, which had some very nice office apps for NeXT.) In principle, it should not have been that difficult to port the Objective C code to Java, producing the first real Java office suite, but for whatever reasons, the opportunity was bobbled and all Sun has to show for the LD purchase is an OO modeling tool.
Lighthouse Design's excellent code is now but a footnote in history, and there's little reason to hope the same fate won't befall StarOffice if they can't find a way to remain independent.
I like Sun, but I do NOT trust them to follow through on this, or devote anywhere near the level of resources required to make StarOffice a real competitor. Never forget that Sun has lots of really bright people, but they are a poor software development house - their business model insists that business units be instantly profitable, leading to bone-headed business decisions in an attempt to generate unreasonable amounts of cash. Java is an abberation. Look at the fate of Sun's other software products (SunNet Manager, the NFS client, etc.) to see how software really fares at Sun. The company starved those products, and the same is likely to happen to StarOffice, which will require even more money to support.
On annother note, StarOffice is not written in Java, but there is a Java version (port) of it, which can be run from JavStations or other network computers. (Sun is finally realizing that a local disk is a really good thing, even if only for cache - networks will never be fast/good enough to make no local storage a good architectural choice, especially with the increasing importance of mobility.)
If I were at Microsoft, I would throw a party if Sun completes this purchase...
I sure wish they would chase that common file format initiative mentioned in another post, though - that's the way to really make a difference!
"The future's good and the present is nothing to sneeze at." - Roblimo's last
The only fear I have is that SUN would try to re-write the app with 100% Pure Java. This has been tried by very talented development houses, and it did not work well, hell the versions I have tried of the 'Java Office Suite' (manufacture to remain nameless) ran like my PII 400 was a 386 with a meg of ram. Java is great to make light switches talk to light blubs but for an office suite? Keep it in C SUN!!!
Granted, the only look I took at SO5 was a hacked english version back when only the german version was out -- i found a partial english ver on one of the german technical university servers (mighta been clausthal) and fixed its missing parts with the german package. My impression on the k6-200 i was using then was, kinda slow, crashy, and way too MS-like.
;). I worry that the reason Sun would want StarDivision is that SO5 had (in theory) a Java version .... yuck ... wouldn't want to try that.
I very much prefer Corel's much-superior (stability and speedwise IMHE) wordperfect suite, which already exists for Solaris (anyone else want Corel to release a free-for-personal-use ver for Sun? Would top off a 3GS nicely
Corel also has a pretty darn good record of supporting Free stuff, for a commercial-software company.
For that matter, I intend to get LyX and Gnumeric and AbiWord on my two SPARCs and live a happy life. I've had it with commercial word processing. Bleah. @#$% MS-Word files. Fight the man with your word processor!
Sun really need a good office suite to further compete with M$. Although you hear half as much about Sun as you do M$, Sun has almost as many employees and makes their fair share of cash. But like SGI they are looking to further compete with M$ and maybe even the desktop/NT workstation market.
Sun and SGI rule the 3D workstation and heavy super duper server market, places where Intel and M$ can't compete with near the same quality. But M$ and Intel own the desktop and low cost workstation market. Why? Because Intel has the fast yet not terribly expensive chips and M$ has the support of hundred of not thousands of companies helping them out with more applications every year. So what do these 3D and server powerhouses do? Dive into the low cost market. SGI is trying with it's NT Workstation line (and is supporting Linux along with it, woohoo!) Which means that copy of Office 2000 you just bought will work on your new SGI boxes, major plus. Sun can't abandon their UltraSPARC and microSPARC chips like SGI did with MIPS. So they buy out an already existing multiplatform office suit (Star Office), keep all the multi-platform ports, but redo the Java port which just happens to run very well on the *SPARC processors. Then get into the low-cost workstation market which is making everyone else so much money. Not only does having an office suite make Sun's boxes look more attractive, but they can read and write MS Office documents, which means with Sun's boxes you're able to remain in competition with your competition.
Sun:
1. Don't abandon your *SPARC chips.
2. Don't change your logo to a real crappy one.
3. Don't make Star Office unfree for personal users.
4. Don't force my box to run Star Office in Java, I like Java (especially when I dont have to do memory management mineself), but my box doesn't do a good job of running it quickly.
5. my toaster doesn't need to be on the internet, don't try to put Jini in it or I'll put a bottle where the Sun don't shine.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
did you first do the root install with option /net?
/usr/local/Office51 and an Office51 directory of 2MB in each users homedir. Even SO3 could do this.
and then normal install for each user?
(like it says in the instructions)
I have it installed multi-user here without problems, everything in
I'll agree with you though that it's in serious need of a diet.
I use Friend/Foe + mod-point modifiers as a karma/reputation system.
If Sun do buy StarOffice and market it there may very well be more copies of StarOffice sold than there are now. But I don't think it will be because of the cross-platform nature of the product.
Most people use a wp/spreadsheet/whatever because it's:
- installed on their PC (witness the popularity of MS Works or Claris Works among school projects)
- what they are given at work
- produces file formats that their customers expect
Where I work I have a choice between Word/Excel and Lotus SmartSuite. 90% of the documents on the lan are created using MS products - so that's what I use. This is the only criteria by which I choose the tool. Whether or not the apps are cross-platform (they are) doesn't make a difference to me.A very small percentage of use more than one OS in real life so a cross-platform office suite isn't a deal making must have feature, IMHO.
my blog: good times, man, good times
As far as I can tell, Sun's more recent OpenStep-related acquisitions were deliberately and clearly made in order to support Java development. There was nothing stealthy about it.
Yes. It's slow.
1. I know that many of the JavaSoft division used StarOffice on the evaluation license because of Scott McNealy's directives to avoid MicroSoft Office. The file import and export routines worked well, and this allowed Sun employees to exchange Word files with the rest of the universe. It worked adequately on Solaris and various Windows platforms. The speed issues kept getting killed by Moore's law as we upgraded machines. It was unusable on the old Mr.Coffee Javastations, but so was everything.
2. One idea floating around Sun that never picked up steam was to help the industry formalize file formats. Remember that this was at the time that JavaSoft was the only group being able to pound out a working standard with reference code and conformance tests in under a year. The goal would be to work to disrupt the MicroSoft cash flow by creating a consortium of Lotus, Novell, Corel, StarOffice, Adobe, Oracle, and others to make a standardized, testable, and brandable file format that would allow new add on products and to cut of the monopoly profits from Office. There were a lot of fish frying, and this one never picked up steam.
3. Notice that the lack of standardized formats does kill innovation. Oracle has had some cool doucment summarizing technology for a long time. Other companies really understand how to manage change logs. None of these companies can afford changing file import formats everytime Microsoft has a whim.
4. The MicroSoft Office monopoloy grinds out long feature creep lists, and it works on the incredibly complex file formats. There are a couple companies doing reasonable business who spend their life reverse engineering the MicroSoft Office file format. I actually read an early draft of a paper describing the likely proprietary moves that Microsoft could make with XML and patent protection as part of the file structure. It's fairly nasty.
5. If Sun finally does buy these people out, Scott will probably make it free for individual users. The basic rule doesn't change; Sun wants you to use a Unix workstation instead of a PC.
Does anyone have a link to the article in c't (even if it is in German)?
Check it out.
And yes, it is in German.
I've used StarOffice for about 6 months on my Linux workstation at work, opening and saving mostly other users Office97 documents. My system is a PII-233 with 192 meg of memory, and sometimes StarOffice is very slow. Sometimes it consumes 40% of the cpu for no reason until I shut it down.
However, it's still my program of choice for word processing. I have had very good success reading/writing MSOffice files, and the tools that it comes with work well alone and with each other.
I tried WordPerfect for awhile, but it was way too quirky to use day-to-day. My biggest complaint about StarOffice is it's size and lack of speed, but it does what I need it to do, and that's what I look for in an office suite.
I'm thinking of purchasing a license to put it on all 12 of my Linux systems in my computer lab here at the office (I teach some networking classes and soon some Linux classes) to teach people basic word processing/office type skills.
StarDivision also has a very nice package for schools called "Software in Schools". For something like $200, you can get a site license of StarOffice (any platform, I think) plus licenses for the teachers to install it on their systems at home. A school lab with Linux and StarOffice can make a very cost effective solution for a school where the budget is already stretched very thin.
I hope Sun uses it's market share to push StarOffice and continue to improve the product.