ESR says Microsoft is right, for once

geekd sent us a link to a Linux Today story by ESR where he says that Microsoft is right. Here is a quick quote from the article: "Indeed do we live in interesting times. Today Microsoft, the Borg from Redmond, is on the right side -- the open-source side -- of a dispute about network standards. I expect water to begin flowing uphill any second now, and look out for pigs on the wing." Its about the Internet Messaging battle between AOL and MS. Check it out.

Comments

Yes, but...

[BJH]

I agree with ESR, basically, although I do have some reservations. This is, at the moment, not much more than a pissing contest between two giant corporations that would like nothing better than see their competitor have to pull in their horns. The free software community is pretty much just being stomped on by one or the other giant (which one it is depends on the phase of the moon, the position of the constellations, etc.)

It wouldn't surprise me in the least for MS to come out with an "improved" Internet messenger protocol within days of stomping AOL into the ground. That's the way it works - they're just looking for an advantage, any advantage, and they both have less than zero concern for "right" and "wrong".

Right, or just not as wrong?

[talks_to_birds]

Microsoft right for once?

"Microsoft's stance in this brouhaha is, of course, hypocritical to the point of being nauseating. In the past, Gates's minions have been notorious for sabotaging and corrupting open networking standards at every possible opportunity, and Microsoft's own "Halloween Documents" explain why with almost brutal frankness."

Microsoft is just serving it's own interests, as it always does, and is just playing the "open source" gambit here, to serve itself.. It's not that Microsoft is suddenly so right, it's just that AOL is more wrong..

- t_t_b
--

Brainwashing!!!

[Greg Merchan]

ESR goes to the Redmond campus, and now this!!!

--- disclaimer ---
This is a joke. This is only a joke. Had this been a real conspiracy theory the subject would have read "Clone!!!" and been followed by statements attesting to first-hand knowledge of a MS janitor's claim of creating the clone or disposing of the bodies and being fired for threatening to go public about those and the theft of GPL'ed genentic code.
--- end of disclaimer ---

Have a nice date!

Proprietary Extensions

[Goody]

Microsoft is absolutely right in this case, but their intentions are definitely not in parallel with the spirit of OSS. Here's the plan :

1. Give it out as a free goodie.

2. Package it in Windows.

3. When everyone has it, throw proprietary extensions on it. Remaining non-M$ clients have to switch to the M$ client to get the cool functionality.

4. Rename it, integrate it into everything from Bob to Office to MSN.

5. Hey guys, look at this neat new product we created ! Aren't we innovative ?

Re:Typical

[BluBrick]

Microsoft are indeed interested in open standards up to a point. That point being once they have a decent slice of the marketshare. Once they have that, open standards appear to go right out the window.

Does anyone here really believe that Microsoft will remain faithful to their current stance on open standards for Internet messaging? I don't! I predict that their righteous stance will win them their little tiff with AOL. After that, they will gain a decent marketshare, and (surprise, surprise) begin to introduce closed "enhancements".

For these reasons, I refuse to say that Microsoft is right, they are just less wrong than AOL. Microsoft will not be right about open standards until they are consistent in their stance.

How is AOL wrong in this?

[HomerJ]

Those 12+ Million users of AIM didn't just come out of the sky. AOL Spent millions, if not billions of marketing to get people to use AOL/AIM.

AIM is a closed proprietary server. The only servers for AIM exist on AOL servers.

There are companies that spend a great deal of $$ to advertise on the AIM client.

Now Microsoft comes along. For free they want access to the 12+ million people that AOL has. They want to use AOL's customer base to promote hotmail(you need hotmail to use Microsoft Messanger), and to get thier foot into the mix by just hijacking the millions of AIM users.

All of the time, all Mircosoft did was code a client. All these people that are using it are using AOL's servers. It's wrong for AOL to go "Mircosoft is getting these ad dollars, while we have to have the increased load on our servers for free? We aren't putting up with this"? Maybe if AIM servers were all over the place like IRC, this wouldn't be a conern. But they aren't so it is.

Now AOL has to go to their advertisers and go "We now have 15 million useres, but now, even though it's our service and server, you can only reach 12 million of them" While now, Microsoft can go to the same people and go "Get our ad space and reach the whole 15 million, and it will cost you less"

So, to stop Microsoft, they changed thier own protocol so MS Messanger wouldn't work. AOL said "We spent billions to get this user base and to where we are now. We'll be damned if we are going to let Microsoft come in and take them for free."

This isn't like TiK, where it was a totally free program, that in the whole scheme of things not alot of people used. This is Microsoft. They will put this program on every install of Windows2000. It will be installed by default in the next version of IE. Wouldn't be surprised if in the next consumer Windows release, MS Messanger was "part of the OS"

So it's still ok for AOL to sit back and let this happen?

You are VERY right: ESR has fallen for MS's trap.

[qnonsense]

Microsoft is, I think, trying to make us (the "Open Source Community (tm)") believe that we have to support them in their call for "Open Standards (tm)" because if we call for them in one area, (OS APIs etc.) we must call for them in all areas. They are trying to make us think that we need to be "consistent" in our argument to open standards.

What they don't understand is that we are too smart for that. And ESR has fallen right into their trap! We do not need to be consistent. Consistency is the mantra of the small-minded. We need to say to Microsoft that we can see right through them. We cannot be blinded by our own argument in one area to the obvious differences here. This is a matter of Microsoft trespassing on AOL's server space!

It is not "open-source" vs. "corporate bullying." It is Microsoft assuming that we are too stupid to see the difference. AND ESR HAS FALLEN FOR IT!

This is not a call for openness. This is not a call for standards. And AOL has one remedy that ESR totally forgot: the courts. AOL could probably get a restraining order against Microsoft for trespassing on AOL's servers.


Support AOL: We cannot allow ourselves to be blinded by our own argument. We must be able to see the difference OR WE WILL ALWAYS FAIL!