Illegal File Formats?

Patman asks: "While thinking about the legality of MP3's today, I got to wondering - has a file format or storage method ever been declared illegal? Of course, using it can be illegal if you don't have rights, but I was wondering about actual formats or methods. " I don't think this has happened yet, but don't think that it never will. I wonder if I someone will start a betting pool on which one it will be.

Comments

file formats..

[Zurk]

are basically packages for holding data. they can never be illegal. to use an analogy from real life - drugs are mostly illegal, but no one is going to ban needles just because theyre used for injecting drugs.

Re:file formats..

[wuzoe]

That is true, however, (in the US atleast) it is illegal to have needles without a prescription for them. This is because the legal uses of needles require a prescription.

Perhaps a better analogy would be "Pot is illegal, but rolling papers aren't."
(because there are legal uses for rolling papers, ie rolling cigars)

Re:file formats..

[jeremy f]

Yes, but then again, a bowl or a joint is a package for holding marijuana, as well a needle a package for holding herion. Possession of any will land you an arrest, containing the respective drugs or not (although a needle by itself isn't illegal, needle + spoon + empty bag would be).

Naming a file "Illegal Warez and Child Porn.tar.gz" isn't going to guarantee that is going to be it's contents, however if any fed sees that on a computer, well, you can imagine what's gonna happen.

If they have drug paraphernalia as an arrestable offense, I wonder if they'll come up with file paraphernalia. I'm sure they won't ban any particular file formats, they just may make it illegal for it to be in one's possession unless permission is granted from a specific source (the format's author, the government, etc.)

Re:file formats..

[atomly]

Actually, I've been told that in Minnesota (and possibly other states) it's illegal to have rolling papers unless you have tobacco at the same time.

And, to be pedantic, you don't roll cigars with papers; cigars are rolled in a tobacco leaf while cigarettes are in papers.

Re:file formats..

[wuzoe]

quite sorry. I don't smoke... and I didn't think many people roll their own cigarettes. (Although some people do, for various reasons)

Patents can make for illegal file formats

[CaptainSuperBoy]

If someone holds the patent on a file format, you could be violating their patent by using that format. I know of no patented formats where the patent holder prohibits people from just using the format, but there are some notable patents - mostly for compression and encryption mechanisms. The LZW compression algorithm used in .GIF and .Z files is patented by Unisys. They charge royalties for commercial software that creates GIF files.

Also, MP3 itself is a patented format - Fraunhofer institute doesn't allow ANY free software for MP3 creation - they want a ridiculous amount of money per unit of software distributed. They don't impose any restrictions on software that only plays MP3s though, or on the distribution of MP3 files.

IANAL but I believe it's not a criminal offense, violating someone's patent. Using these formats in ways that violate patents isn't illegal, you will just get your ass sued off. There's no file format that can land you in jail.

patents and software

[johnjones]

thank god I'm not in the US

your legal system when it comes to patents seems %$££$"&*) mad

the make one rule and then break it next week !

1>software can not be patented in the EU it can in the US

2>enforceing highly used and open format rolytys is a nightmare and only for US Fumbleing Bumbleing Idiots.

3> can you patent the way it is stored on the disk ? so is storeing that file on that disk infingment ?

thinking hurts

john


a poor student @ bournemouth uni in the UK (a deltic so please dont moan about spelling but the content)

Re:patents and software

[oneiros27]

I believe #3 has been done. I don't have the reference materials here, but I know there's a crapload of patents regarding Eastman Kodak's PhotoCD format. (or whatever the technical name is for it).

The Encyclopedia of Graphical File Formats had a small section on it, basically saying that they can't say anything about it, as Kodak will sue anyone who attempts to reverse engineering and/or disclose information on it.

(it's been 3+ years since I read the encyclopedia, so I'm bound to be leaving out some small, critical detail, but that's what I remember of it)

I love it when people talk out their ass......

[J4]

Fraunhofers patent is on _their_ algorithm that can be used to create mp3.
I don't violate any license from them by having mp3 files.
If I use a piece of software that uses Fraunhofers _algorithm_ to encode an mp3, _then_ I owe them a royalty.
There are encoders that do _not_ use Fraunhofers algo, for example Blade.

IANAL but I believe it's not a criminal
offense, violating someone's patent. Using
these formats in ways that violate patents
isn't illegal, you will just get your ass sued
off. There's no file format that can land you
in jail.

Sheesh.... Okay, so you don't know but you think it might be alright.
Thanks for clearing that up.

I never thought I'd see this question on /.
And whats with the definitions of stuff in the headlines?

Illegal Formats

[dondelelcaro]

As far as illegal formats go, in the pure sense, I am not aware of any.

However, as you probably are well aware, it is illegal to export strong encryption, which in it's own way could be viewed as a file format. While it isn't illegal to posses, it is illegal to export from the US.

But realistically, we are talking about the US government here... come on, these people have almost no clue at all when it comes to what a file format is... if they attempted to outlaw a file format, they would probably end up outlawing 95% of computer programs on the market... such a law would be virtually (entirely?) useless....

Don Armstrong -".naidnE elttiL etah I"

boy, you're a hypocrite..

[CaptainSuperBoy]

Hey buddy, hit the back button and re-read before you flame me. You said:

Fraunhofers patent is on _their_ algorithm that can be used to create mp3. I don't violate any license from them by having mp3 files.

I said:

They don't impose any restrictions on software that only plays MP3s though, or on the distribution of MP3 files.

Of course you don't violate their license by having MP3 files. I never said they tried to enforce their patents on users of MP3 encoders, or users of MP3 files.. only on the companies that make encoders. If that was the case we'd all be using some other format.

Actually you're dead wrong on why BladeEnc is legal - The only reason it is legal is because it is developed in Sweden, which doesn't recognize software patents. Fraunhofer DOES receive royalties from companies such as Xing who make their own high bitrate encoders - even if they have been developed in a "clean-room" environment. Ever wonder why the only free MP3 encoders you see are either low-bitrate, illegal, or made in Sweden?

Only one here talking out of their ass is you.. do some reading before you go and tell me I'm wrong.

Quick question: what's IANAL?

[Analogue Kid]

I've seen it, but I'm not hip with that brand o' jive. Translators?

Re:Quick question: what's IANAL?

[jonmay]

my best guess is "I am not a lawyer"

Doubt it

[EdMcMan]

I highly doubt the government could figure out what a file format is. A friend of mine was on a shell where an fbi agent also had an account. He had BitchX and eggdrop in his directory. The agent assumed these were hacking programs and proceeded to testing them themself. This person really must've wanted a raise, because he came to conclude eggdrop was a hacking utility and BitchX was an application to get root access. Um, yeah whatever. It just shows how clueless the government is when it comes to computers.

Re:Doubt it

[Microlith]

BitchX == IRC Client
eggdrop == IRC Bot