Slashdot Mirror
On Linux Laptops
KuRL wrote in to tell us that Salon has a piece by Andrew Leonard on Linux Laptops and why they haven't caught on. Talks a lot about the cursed WinModems,
mentions that VAIOs are yummy, and more on the subject. Its probably stuff that the average Slashdot reader already knows, but its a nice piece.
If anyone from IBM is reading, tell your superiors to release the specs for the MWave Sound_Card/Modem.
If IBM doesn't want to write the drivers, fine.
But please don't keep us from writting them! We are willing and able...
Civ CTP is awesome! Thanks Loki!
Romans 10:9-10
Bargin laptops are the antichrist to anyone who has ever worked IT. Not to long ago, a company I worked for got in a bunch of Toshibas and Compaq laptops who's Windows 98 installs where horked. I mean the sound was not quite SB compliant, the Video was detected at 512Kb or ram when I can *see* both megs on the board. I won't even start on the built in ether. The truth is, these laptops aren't that well put together. SuperProbe would probably throw an absolute fit trying to determine what the Video was doing. The ethernet, which was supposedly NE2000 compliant ended up being a derivative of the 3C509.
What it boils down to is these machines shouldn't even be marketed as x86 compatible. Since I have never tried to install Linux on anything other than a lame laptop, I can't speak for the "good ones". I sincerely hope they are better.
And to leave you with a question, who actually makes this lame hardware? The company who printed those boards ought to be smacked with a wet salmon.
Mike
Let me second this notion! I too have a Lombard G3 (333 MHz PowerBook), and it runs Linux beautifully! The Debian install wasn't too bad, either. LinuxPPC seems to offer a graphical install, if you're a fan of a Red Hat-style distribution.
X runs accelerated (through the ATI framebuffer) at 1024x768 at 32bpp on a 14.1 inch screen, I have a 3 button Logitech USB mouse installed, the 10/100 Mbit ethernet is great (I plug in at home, at work, wherever). The built in modem works great; I get 5.1 KB/sec over local phone lines. It's even got external SCSI connector, built-in CD-ROM. I can pull 6 hours off the internal battery while doing the odd compile work in X. You can fill the second media bay with a battery and pull more than 10 (or so Apple says, I'd believe them).
If this reads like an endorsement for the G3 laptops and Linux, it is! The thing's nice and fast, and getting Linux installed in place of MacOS is simple. It's unfortunate that my purchase "included MacOS", but I'd rather funnel money back into a company doing great things with hardware.
--
I have a PCG-C1 (picture book) and it works like a dream. Yes the modem is compatible with linux, as is everything else except the built in camera (which uses firewire, not yet supported under linux, but getting there). I use it for everything, I even have a external DVD drive (the laptop is not much bigger then a VHS tape when closed, no room for internal drive) with software decoder that I use under Windoze (small partition on the 4.3 gigdrive) that works at probably 28 frames per second. Even Linus has one of these babys! Highly reccomend one.
Dan-
Problem I hate about the 56k Winmodems, is that if you're doing alot of things, it will CRC error, becouse the friggen DRIVER doesn't get enough CPU time.. ;-P
-- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
I would agree that used laptops are an excellent alternative for many of us, even those of us who probably could afford a fancy laptop if we wanted to, but would rather spend money on something else.
I have an old ThinkPad 355Cs (33MHz 486SX) which I run Linux on. It has a few setup quirks (goofy floppy drive, wonky video chip, etc), but once set up it works pretty well except for the MWave sound/modem, which I've been told only does 9600bps on the modem side anyway. I use a 3Com MegaHertz (Gateway labeled) combo 10b2 Ethernet/33.6 modem PCMCIA card, which works great (I picked it up cheap as a closeout when the 100bT/56k models came out).
Its not a screamer, but I added 32M of memory (taking it to 36M total) and replaced the original 250M hard drive with a 2.1G drive (no problems, the ThinkPad found the geometry automatically). It is a workable, luggable machine for about a third of what a decent new laptop would have cost me.
If anyone is interested in details on how to get one of these things running, let me know. BTW, most members of the ThinkPad 355, 360, 750 & 755 families are very similar hardware wise, so the same info that works on my 355Cs will also work on a lot of those models.
What the article briefly touches on and then doesn't explore is the proprietary nature of laptop technology in general (and I'm not just talking about Windows laptops either). The confined spaces of a laptop have poised unique problems to computer manufacturers and the solutions have been, well, unique. IBM's MWave is only one such solution. Because you can't just plug in the components that you need, laptops tend to have funky motherboards, peripherals, and input devices. PCMCIA is one solution, but the article points out it's not elegant.
I suspect that as the size of computer components continues to shrink, we'll see laptops approaching a more standards-compliant state of being (and we'll see desktops shrink, too). That is, if Intel can figure out a way to quit making mondo processing chips.
Just to let you know,
IBM Thinkpad 355's do not have MWave modems/soundcards. The first IBM Laptops that had MWave modems were the 755CE/CSE/CD models. The 355 does not have an integrated sound card at all. The 750/755C/CS have a cheap business sound card installed in them(that is not even SoundBlaster compatible).
Come play Heroes of Might and Magic Mini online.
Yes, a huge market for linux laptops - but for old 486's.
Why? 486's run Linux great, but Windows 9X really, really lousy. Both 486's and Linux do what you need them to do, seems a perfect match for me. They're in the right price range for younger geeks still in school, and they're old, so hardware is more likely to be supported, and they're (for the most part) pre-winmmodems.
I know I just got ahold of a Compaq 486/75 and I'm going to put linux on it and use it for my C++ coding at school.
Before I'm flamed, I used to use a WinModem, now I have a real, proper, external modem (and am no longer limited to just Windows, too).
When I did use a WinModem, I was able to use it for some time, but upon returning from a trip I found I simply could not connect. I blamed the modem.. and I was partly right.
After replacing the WinModem with real, proper hardware I did some digging and found the local telco had "upgraded" its equipment. I dug because my then new 33.6 was never getting above 26.4 or so. A few days and several calls later I had 28.8+ connections.
What irked me was not merely the telco, they perhaps hadn't known the effect they would have. What irked me was that while the 'real' modem wound up connecting slowly, but connecting, the WinModem simply failed. Even with Windows and its pet drivers. I played by the rules set, and got burned anyway. Now I have a modem that 'Just Works'.
The problem is not only the WinModem evil: Laptop hardware seems to be such a custom beast, that sound and video drivers need to be custom written. I remember trying to get NT 3.5 and 3.51 to run on one of the first Pentium laptops: that was a worse configuration effort than anything I have seen with Linux. Beta this, alpha that, to get any sound, and to get anything other than the lowest resolution.
My primary computing platform is an older Tecra running RH 6.0. I had to tweak some XF86Config options to get proper resolution, and compile a kernel to use the proper sound card settings, but it was all standard Linux. By contrast, to get NT working, I would have to download a set of custom video and sound drivers from Toshiba. So Linux is actually in a better situation than NT here.
I'm assuming that you've installed linux before, on your desktop or something, so the basics aren't new to you.
/dev/hda5)
Dual Boot: no problem there, Install NT first (already done I guess), use fips or Partition Magic to shrink the NT partition and create some empty space for linux, don't let linux install lilo on the mbr, instead to the beginning of the partition linux is on, then dd the bootsector to a file (dd if=/dev/hdxn of="bootsect.lin" bs=521 n=1) where x is the drive letter, n is the partition number, probably
3Com 10/100+56K I've had great luck with this card, although the modem and the ethernet won't work at the same time all that well.
Video is going to be your biggest problem, and I suggest just going out and doing a web search on altavista or something for your notebook name and linux and X or something like that. Someone probably already has a working XF86Config file for you.
Installing linux is tricky on machines with PCMCIA floppy drives, but I'm assuming this computer has a built in floppy drive, so it should be okay.
-nosilA
A month ago I purchased a satellite, my first portable. The satellites were recomended to me by friends who managed to get linux running on them. I used to think that portables were expensive toys before I got my own! Now I love them, great for college. Now I can take my computer with me on trips, the bus etc.
When I was selecting a portable I took a number of features into consideration:
1) price:
Im a college student of Very Litte Money (tm). Every little bit counts.
2) pointing device:
On occasion I do use X and I *hate* *hate* those wretched touch pad pointing devices that I see on so many portables. The 2595 comes with an eraser head pointer. Easy to get used to and you dont have to worry about your hand rubbing on it by accident and moving the pointer where its not wanted.
3) display:
Since i spend > 10 hours a day in front of the computer I had to make a decision: get a large TFT display, or get glasses. The 2595xdvd comes with a 14.1" TFT display (X looks great at 1024x768 on it)
4) SANE keyboard:
I really *hate* *hate* keyboards with those anoying Windows(TM)(C)(R) keys. On a portable they are even worse. Keyboard space is limited. This really "helped" me select the satellite since the "Win keys" on the satellite are very tiny and in the upper right hand of the keyboard (out of the way of hands. yay!)
5) Performance:
Since I needed a portable to serve as my primary workstation, I needed something with an acceptable amount of power. The 2595 comes with 400mhz celeron, 64mb ram (upgradable). This is nore than enough for my needs.
I am fairly satisfied with the 2595xdvd, except for the winmodem. The modem quality is questionable even in windows! The dvd drive wont see much use since its not supported by linux yet. Such is life on the bleeding edge I guess.
At the time of purchase the video card wasnt supported by xfree86 (no idea if it is now) but I managed to get X running at 1024x768 16bpp by using a hacked X server.
I managed to get a full screen console by recompiling the kernel with vesa frame buffer support (by default console is either a *tiny* window in the center of the screen or *ugly* stretch mode. I was very relieved when vesafb worked since I do most of my work in console). I havent been able to get both X and vesafb working at the same time. For some reason X wont start when i have vesafb enabled, so i have to choose between a pretty X environment or a pretty console.
Has anyone with a 2595 got fullscreen console and X working at the same time?
Is there any hope to get the infrared port working?
I have not tried to get sound working under linux. Has anyone got the sound on this portable to work?
Has anyone got a decent looking full screen console to work with the 2595xdvd without using vesafb?
If anyone with a 2595xdvd needs help getting X or a sane console with vesafb working email me and i'll try my best to help you out.
--
intol
intol@linux.nu
I have a IBM 560x. I originally put NT on it, soon switched it to Linux. I find Linux to be a lot less annoying than NT on this 'lil machine.
:-) and NO WINDOWS KEYS!
NT's major weaknesses:
difficult install - this is partially because I am cheap an didn't buy a CD-ROM. Linux network installs are far superior to NT.
Network config changes require reboot. This is a serious PITA when moving from home to work. With Linux I just use hibernation and hardly ever reboot - uptime is 18 days now... Cardctl schemes handle the network resets between home and work.
I'm very happy with RedHat 6.0 on this machine, and the installation was a piece of cake using a PCMCIA ethernet card.
Two advantages of the 560x for Linux: no winmodem (no modem at all
On the other side of the hardware world, I am running LinuxPPC on my 333 MHz PowerPC G3 laptop, and it works beautifully. 90+% of everything I try works (some oddnesses with hot-swapping devices in the media bay, e.g.). It is quite a nice machine for fast computation (running OpenDX and such).