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IBM Thinkpad 600E to be certified "compatible"
dkm wrote to say that IBM has declared their intention of making the Thinkpad 600E named as Red Hat Linux "compatible". Sounds great, right?
Well, the fun part is that while IBM wants to get
named compatible, the bloody modem still won't work with Linux. Marvelous-compatible, but not really. Apparently they'll be "taking steps" as time goes on to get the modem working.
disclaimer:Hemos owns shares in red hat
After all, that's why some OS/2 users do. They buy systems with Linux preloaded, delete Linux and install OS/2. They get a system with more cross-platform support, and they don't pay the MS tax.
IBM Thinkpads are known for their OS/2 compatibility. Not all of them, mind you. You can't even install OS/2 on the 570 series, for instance. But there are a number of Thinkpads that officially support OS/2.
I personally purchased an older Toshiba laptop from http://www.usedlaptops.com/. Since Linux and OS/2 run better on older hardware than Windows does, you can get more bang for the buck with older systems.
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
thats because redhat is becoming the standard whether you like it or not. Promote the LSB more agressively and/or join them. This will help make more stuff Linux LSB certified instead of RedHat certified. What really bugs me is most linux developers dont want to work together - witness the KDE/Gnome incompatibilities, no standard way for applications to add themselves to the menus of the wm at install time, no standard package management, no standard help system. its all bullshit.
Well, I read the announcement and the article and did not see the word 'certification' anywhere. What I saw was a pretty good-faith effort to offer information on how to get their equipment to run Linux. Lack of a supported modem is a huge issue, to be sure. I just didn't jump to the comclusion or see any language that IBM was claiming that they were 100% certified compatible with _anything_ (did I really miss that?)
Now the story with the marketing guy sounded terrible, but the other link actually had some good information, was very upfront with the issues were work was needed, and appears to be a good-faith effort on the part of IBM.
(just curious, why is this post 'funny'? I don't get the joke, I guess)
There is still no way of knowing what kernel and modules are present just because what you are running is called Linux. So there can never be such a thing as Linux compatible hardware. Furthermore, if you think user space code doesn't affect hardware compatibility you should check out the SANE project, which is scanner support in 100% user space code.
I see it a bit differently. While all these major companies are coming out-and the new buzzword seems to be "RedHat Compatible", but that's all it is...a buzzword. The compatibility issues can only be due to the fact that it uses glibc, and RedHat is not the only distribution that uses it. Let's face it, while there are other distributions out there, doing just as many sales, and are just popular-the GENERAL public is fixed on one-RedHat. RedHat shows them a potential profit margin, so of course everyone is trying to cash in on it right now. What the good thing is, if this "trend" continues to catch on with the larger companies-in the future it may be just as easy to find Linux drivers as it is to find Windows drivers.
..That RH was recently investing effort in
protecting the integrity of their trademark, but
now seem to be auctioning it off to the highest
bidder.
[looks over at laptop] Debian time for you.
K.
-
-- Proud descendant of semi-nomadic cattle-herders.
I for one would like to express my appreciation to IBM for what it has started. Getting Linux running on laptops has often been a tricky deal, and now we are getting support from a manufacturer. This is definitely good news, and IBM is taking a lead in this area. Hopefully it is the start of something that continues to show improvement.
Sure, they are targeting Red Hat. What else are they going to do? Target every Linux distribution out there? There are so many, it's hard enough to even get a list of them! They have to start somewhere, and starting with the most popular (or at least most high-profile) distribution is the sensible thing to do. And hey, if it will run Red Hat, it will probably run any decent version of Linux.
So stop whining and complaining and visualize a world in which hardware manufacturers care more about Linux compatibility than Windows compatibility. Visualize manufacturers dropping Winmodems because they're not Linux compatible. Visualize more manufacturers shipping computers with Linux installed, with your choice of distribution.
Jay Ts
http://jayts.cx
This is indeed an amusing announcement, to say the least. Let me give a little background:
I am a freshman at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI). This year, they issued every freshman an IBM Thinkpad 600E. The configuration they gave us had an empty partition which basically said "put linux on me." We did. And we discovered the problems with compatability. I daresay this is one of the least compatable laptops with any version of linux. Let me list the problems:
1. Modem doesn't work at all under linux. Probably a winmodem.
2. IBM EtherJet CardBus 10/100 ethernet is REALLY hard to get working. After 10 hours of research and tweaking, I managed to get it to run using pcmcia-cs-3.0.14, but only if I tell it to bind to the tulip_cb driver. This isn't necessarily a good solution in 100% of the cases, either, according to one of our local tech guru's at RPI. Apparently the chip in the card isn't exactly the tulip. Oh, and this only works after you've changed the memory addresses that pcmcia scans for.
3. The number lock key that turns on the "numeric keypad" does not function under linux.
4. Hibernation mode and suspend mode lock up the laptop. (unless I've set something wrong on my config)
5. The sound card is a crystal audio CS4239. It's not quite supported by the kernel. ALSA will get it to work, as the rumors go, but I'm still trying on my laptop.
For this laptop to be "Redhat Linux Compatable", redhat and/or IBM will have to do some serious work on this, or Redhat will lose much credibility.
-Larry Lansing
zanzar@nycap.rr.com
...These aren't the droids you're looking for....Move along....
I don't know what standards Red Hat is actually using to define whether or not something is Red Hat Compatible, but for simplicity's sake I hope it means that my mother could install Red Hat on it. I think that would enable Linux (Red Hat at least) to reach more users, if they knew without a doubt that if they stuck a Red Hat 6.0 CD into their drive, all of the hardware in their machine would be auto-detected and have drivers installed for it automatically. I build my own machines, so it wouldn't do much for me, I guess I could make my own stickers, but I still think that certifying certain machines as being 100% Linux compatible would be a Good Thing (tm).
When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout. --Robert A. Heinlein
I do hope they don't get that certification until it is 100% compatible, wouldn't do a great deal for Red Hat's or Linux's reputation, now would it?
Listening for the sound of the coming rain...
We wouldn't need Linux certified machines if companies would stop using crappy winmodems instead of full blown modems, and nice creative labs sound blasters instead of these shitty rip offs they drop in their "name brand" pos laptops. I'd love to have linux on the go, but I deal with morons on a daily basis who shit their pants if it dont say microshaft certified so it must run that evilness of '95. Just a thought from a guy who hates "name brand" hardware with 3rd country rate parts.
So, think of the 600E as a Thinkpad without a modem when you are running Linux. You aren't paying a lot extra for the modem, and the built-in Thinkpad modem is a kludge anyway.
While it is nice to see some effort by some of the larger companies in the world to support linux. I'm more than a little worried that there will not be support for distributions other than Red Hat. I'm not so worried that the code they release, drivers for example, will not work with say Slackware ( my favorite distribution :=) ) but this quote scares me:
"But he couldn't say if the source code of any eventual driver releases would be made available to the general public or kept proprietary."
Will there be problems getting compiled binaries for Slackware or any other distribution? If there isn't any source code with those binaries what will I do? Now that RedHat's prime focus is building their company and keeping shareholders happy will they try to make deals with hardware makers to ship only binaries that work with Red Hat? I'm not saying that they are trying to do this or that they ever will but I worry about it...
======== In the future, everything will be artificial. ========
Of course, the news posting would have been a bit more informative if this link had been included. It's the specs for the Thinkpad 600E, on IBM US's pages. Prices seem to range from $2,709.95 (P-II 300 MHz, 32 MB SDRAM, 4 GB disk, 24X CD, 13.3" TFT, 4.9 lbs) all the way up to $4,011.61 (P-II 400 MHz, 64 MB SDRAM, 10 GB disk, DVD, 13.3" TFT, 5 lbs). I dig those 61 cents.
main(O){10<putchar(4^--O?77-(15&5128 >>4*O):10)&&main(2+O);}
This is why we need a vendor-neutral group like the LSB to certify systems as being not just "redhat compatible", but linux compatible. I want to buy a product and have it work flawlessly under debian, redhat, mandrake, suse - all of them. Right from peg 1. I'm willing to pay alittle extra to make sure that the product I buy will work (right out of the box) with linux. I am not willing to pay even a penny more because redhat stuck a label on a product and sent it on it's merry way without any quality standards.
--
Besides having all the hardware be compatible, a linux notebook needs a keyboard without windows keys. Actually, what would be ideal is if they copied the happy hacking keyboard exactly, and just built it into a notebook. That would rock.
Also, a 3 button mouse for X would be nice, plus a graphics chipset that is accelerated under X.
Vidi, Vici, Veni
God, ain't that the truth! While I was reading, I just about gagged when I reached this:
by claiming compatibility on Linux, we maintain the position that Thinkpad is the leader in this industry, period. No. 2, we absolutely see a lot of demand from influential people in the marketplace, particularly in education and in the smaller developer markets. When you look at your route-to-market strategy this is obviously important. Thinkpad is very strong in education and Linux is obviously targeting that. We're right there with them." --Tim Eades, a segment marketing manager for IBM Thinkpads
Ok, my problem with the first statement is that his empasis is on _claiming_ compatibility, not deivering it.
The next tip-off is the "route-to-market strategy" marketing-speak.
Then he talks about "... Linux targeting that." and "We're right there with them." Sounds like he's talking about some other company's marketing strategy that he's aligning himself with. Maybe he meant to say RedHat vs Linux, that would make more sense but then this brings up the whole distribution-specific support headache.
I just picture the engineers rolling their eyes reading this as it is obvious that this guy is talking out of his (insert name of bodily orifice here) since the marketing department has obviously gotten _way_ out in frot of the engineers and are making up their own copy.
at least this is a step in the right direction. After all, do we want IBM to declare the Thinkpad to be a 'Windows 2000 only hardware design'? IBM has proven that it wants and does deliver GPL drivers for their hardware (check out this), so lets give them the chance to develop a driver for that modem. Software modems (winmodems) are subtle, their hardware is designed in a way that ties the driver deeply into Windows. It's Windows that actually includes the true 'core' of the modem's functionality - this is why winmodem drivers are easy to write for Windows, and hard to write for Linux. Not to mention the fact that the AT command set and various modem encodings are covered by numerous patents and licenses. In the last 2-3 years Microsoft has rewarded hardware manufacturers for designing pre-specified and Windows-only hardware - winmodems and DVD both have tough license traps. ;)
Yes, IBM could redesign their Thinkpad hardware, but first things first
--Coke
Why this post got moderated up is beyond me...
--
Before everybody goes and condemns IBM and RedHat, they should look at the document that IBM has published. This type of document from a major manufacturer would have been unheard-of just six months ago.
Somebody at IBM went to a lot of trouble to pull this together, pointing out the gotchas and the need to perform further mods to the distro (power management, for example) as well as some of the gotchas (suspend/resume problems with the built-in sound chip).
As far as the built-in modem is concerned, they admit to a lack of support and an attempt to evaluate future support. What more do you want? The great majority of buyers are still Windows users, and it works fine under Windows. If I wanted a modem, I'd more than likely add the additional PCMCIA services required by Linux and add a seperate PCMCIA modem.
I'd like to see a notebook-only Linux distribution that supports just the notebooks and their peculiarities. The IBM document, and other information on the web, would be an excellent starting point for pulling this together. The distro could focus just on that market to provide the best Linux experience to the grizzled veteran as well as the Linux newby.
And let's commend IBM and others for this type of work, rather than just picking and grousing at them for the holes. If we (the 'Linux community') keep this up, then where is the incentive for any help from IBM, or anybody else?
Would this be "flamebait" on the part of the previous poster? :)
:)
:)
Still, I think it's wee bit mendacious on the part of IBM. The curse of winmodems (or HSP modems, in Newspeak). Wasn't someone writing an driver layer for these crappy things? Someone care to remind me about this one?
Right now, the best linux laptop seems to be the Sony Vaio machines.. I have a little Vaio C1 picturebook.. It has a mobile PII/266, a 1024x480 tft screen, and shock, horror, the modem works!
XFree is more than acceptably nippy on it- unlike accelerated X. Xig cliamed that the machine was "lab tested", yet were unable to provide a demo version which worked with the machine, giving the excuse that "someone else must have configured it when testing, and we don't know what they did"
I had a few problems installing, due to the USB floppy drive being visible to the BIOS, so the boot disk worked, but not to the installer at a later stage to load stuff from the second floppy disk.. The trick seemed to be to install from HD in a totally minimal way, and fix it up afterwards...
With those caveats, and bearing in mind the very reasonable price tag, I'd have no problem suggesting one of these great little boxen to a potential mobile linuxer. They even look nice, and so have enough of a "wow factor" to annoy ordinary cloneslingers
Ah, I was rambling again.. sorry.
Red Hat has their definitions of what certified and compatible means on their Hardware Certification Program Program Overview. Also keep in mind that being Red Hat compatible doesn't mean that it doesn't work with any other distribution, just that it meets Red Hat's criteria for compatibility.
Red Hat took the initiative to get a hardware certification program started. This is excellent on Red Hats part. But as others have mentioned, it's not enough. Another organization, perhaps the LSB, need to get a certification program started too. Then we'll be able to see "LSB Certified" hardware too. But Red Hat should be commended for their program, even though, in the future, it should be superceded, if at all possible.
-Brent--
No doubt we'll be seeing many people complain that "Red Hat is not Linux". But quite apart from that, there is a greater danger in these sorts of business alliances. If, to promote their name recognition, any distro endorses hardware that is not fully supplied with drivers, Linux will suffer in the long term.
What is the single most horrific event in the life of a Windows user? Hardware incompatibility. As everyone knows, each release of Windows is bedeviled by PR disasters when 2% of modems, ethernet cards, whatever, fail to work properly. These things harm Windows' image, cause stress, and reduce sales.
But consider how much worse it is with Linux. Newbies who already are nervous about command-line interfaces and only have hazy recollections of "dir" to help them navigate through the guts of the machine will have no chance - absolutely none - at understanding why their modem/ethernet/insert-noncompliant-hardware-here fails to work. Their obvious (although incorrect) answer will be.... are you ready...
"Linux sucks"
This is not what we want to hear from newbies. Yesterday there was a proposal posted about Linux Lite, and many of you agreed it was helpful to build a distribution that would "just work" out of the box. I consider hardware like the Thinkpad 600E the antithesis of that idea.
-konstant
-konstant
Yes! We are all individuals! I'm not!
This is definately not a beginners project. Writing this driver would require simulating the functions of a DSP chip on a general purpose CPU. It would require excellent understanding of how modems work at the signal level. It requires hard real time for acceptable performance. The reason no one has attempted reverse engineering one is that doing so would be very specific to a certain winmodem, and the work involved would be orders of magnitude greater than required for just about any other driver.
"by claiming compatibility we maintain the position that thinkpad is the leader..."
Just plain marketing sleaze. They know full well that their view of compatibility is opposed to the users view. There is nothing worse than deceiving your users/customers for short-term gain. I have to agree with the other posts that state that the marketing dept must follow the Engineers and not the other way around.
Hypothetically, anything hypothetical is possible.
Okay, I've got one of these puppies with all the trimmings (minus the DVD drive), and overall, I *love* the box, though there's a few minor issues.
1. Yeah, the modem. I just use an ethermodem. Yawn.
2. Resetting the pcmcia (as in the case of a pcmcia restart or suspend/resume) causes the audio DMAs to mess up. I have scripts to get around this by reslotting the audio drivers. I consider this more important than the modem.
3. APMD doesn't react properly and has to be disabled.
4. Samba has a tendency toward keeling when you shuffle eth0 around as I often do.
Considering the quality and quantity of glitches even the "Designed for NT" notebooks have under that other OS, I think I'd support labelling it "Works with Linux" but not "100% Linux Compatible".
I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the 600s to anyone looking to build a Linux laptop: we've got five 600s in our department running RH & Mandrake Linux with no complaints (and the owners are users, not gurus), not to mention a few 760s and 770s and a couple of Dell Inspirons.
Add VMWare to the mix, and you get a notebook that only needs to be rebooted when you upgrade kernels, runs NT in a window with M$ Office (the de facto standard in world freakin' domination, ugh), and moves from network to dialup to network with the grace of a ballerina.
So IMHO, don't get your collective panties in a bunch. If Red Hat certifies it, though, they'd better release a stack of RPMs to fully enable the kernel and PCMCIA APM for the thing. And IBM had better release full specs if not source code for the modem and at least leave the ball in the Open Source community.
$0.02
Plenty of people at IBM read Slashdot. I agree that this attempt is a bit misguided from the viewpoint of your average Linux user, but I don't think IBM is aiming this at Linux users at all. They may or may not know that anyone who has used Linux on any laptop at all can get it working on a Thinkpad ... that isn't the point.
IBM's main interests have always revolved around business. Their forays into the home user market have never been much more than exploratory for a corporation their size. This recent attempt, successful or not, looks more like an effort to console business owners and CIOs who fear running this "new-fangled" OS on their Thinkpads. IBM simply picked a distro they all had probably heard of and showed how to install it. The fact that they put in caveats regarding the modem and other possible problems and don't put them in fine print is a step up from where IBM used to be in this business.
I agree that IBM should release specs on their hardware, but there is certainly nothing forcing them to. There is no moral "right" or "wrong" side to stand on, only different points of view. If people really don't like the fact that they'll have to buy a PCMCIA modem, they won't buy a 600E for use as a Linux laptop. The same goes for the closed hardware specs. When IBM sees profit in opening up their hardware specs - more profit than if they don't - they'll jump at the chance. Until then, there are other companies to buy from.
LouZiffer
LouZiffer
There are some problems, but overall, I like my TP600E a lot. It's fast, light, and works OK.
/etc/pcmcia/config.opts and change this line:
;-).
I'm running
1) oracle, postgres, mysql
2) apache, apache 2.0, zope 2.0
3) OpenDX, VTK, and VMD
on a puny little laptop. That's kind of cool. Next week, fun with vmWare (need to port the Dopewars client to NT). It's a bloody *laptop*... all I really want is SOUND, which *is* a bit of a bitch. But my coworker got sound on his TP570, and I'm pretty close, so I'm hoping this certification nonsense will help me play my CDs through my laptop.
Suspend is fucked up. apmd will hose up and force a dirty shutdown if you suspend and resume. Keep your windows/FAT partition around (well, at least enough to dump the contents of memory to, in my case 192MB + a little cushion for bookkeeping) to suspend to. Maybe IBM will fix this niggly too.
CardBus cards suck. Sell yours and get a Xircom RealPort type III card before your X-jack breaks off. The Xircom card I have works like a charm and you don't have to unplug/re-plug it after a suspend. If you insist on using the 3Com card (don't say I didn't warn you), go into
include memory 0xc0000-0xfffff, memory 0xa0000000-0xa0ffffff
to
include memory 0xc0000-0xfffff, memory 0x60000000-0x60ffffff
and do an insmod 3c575_cb.o (or whatever you have) to force it. Then ping somebody. DHCP appears to be fuct for some reason with this card.
Read this article:
Installing Debian on a Thinkpad 600E
I can't think of anything else. X configuration was a drag, but if you read the NeoMagic README it all becomes clear. I assume if you're reading Slashdot, that you already discovered this.
I want 32-bit color (any resolution) on this thing and would gladly pay up to $250 for the upgrade.
I can't think of anything else at the moment, but when I get sound working on *my* laptop I will be happy to gloat about it
Keep plugging away at it. I wouldn't trade my Thinkpad for anything now that it works for me.
Remember that what's inside of you doesn't matter because nobody can see it.
So, please IBM, GPL the modem driver.
Thanks
Bruce Perens
Bruce Perens.
Your getting paranoid. It's impossible to make a RedHat only binary. They ALL RUN LINUX.. Now, if Slackware doesn't provide something that this driver needs, well, that's Slackware's problem.. (I recently left Slackware becouse it just didn't keep with the times)
You can load any modules you want with any distro of Linux you want, plain and simple.
-- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
FWIW, the MWave modem&sound card was put in a lot of laptops -- IBM doesn't like reproducing engineering. It's pretty much the same as most cards of its type -- basically a DSP, some support circuitry and a driver. It's not even that bad an idea, since a DSP-only modem uses less power and takes up less physical space, both of which are at a premium in laptops. For a long time IBM refused to release the specs to the thing, leading to hacks to make it work in SB compatibility mode. More recently (and the data on this point is confused a bit), IBM seems to have finally recanted and provided some basic specs for talking to the thing. Dale Wick has been working on making the thing work, or at least controlling it a bit, under Linux.
- Declare that they lied and it wasn't compatible after all
- Work valiantly to make their modem work with Linux
Notice that option 1 becomes less and less viable the longer IBM has been claiming "Redhat Linux compatibility." At the moment, they could withdraw that assertion without anybody (including the mainstream media) noticing. So, an appropriately delayed response will probably get us option 2. In fact, if at that point IBM feels pressured to get things done fast, they might even feel a greater pressure to work with existing developers to quickly release GPLed drivers as opposed to binary-only ones.It seems like it is worth waiting to me...
Well, the thing that bothers me is the doubtful availability of source. If you wind up with binary-only 'support', then you will likely have the issue of mismatched librarues or some such problem that can be fixed by compiling the source on your deb, suse, slack whatever - but you can't cause you don't have source so it doesn't work at all.
Last time I checked anything relating to money was Red Hat compatible.
e rview.php3 you can see for yourself that getting a "compatible" rating doesn't take much effort or thought. They can't even use the Red Hat logo on packaging.
If you check out their site http://developer.redhat.com/certification/cert-ov
For that matter getting Red Hat certified was very easy. However trying to get RH to improve the certs program is like hitting your head against a brick wall.
Suck for those of us that didn't install that increasingly flavored distribution, doesn't it?
First CodeWarrior gets bound to Red Hat, now IBM's hardware 'compatibility' aims for that distro... I think that perhaps Big Business is missing the point of Linux. I'm certain that Red Hat enjoys the notoriety of being the 'originator' of Linux, but we know better. Yes, they're a great contributor to the exposure and success that Linux as a whole enjoys. Yes, they've made it easier and friendlier, and they may be the spear-head on which Linux is delivered into the mainstream, but the big companies out there need to know that Red Hat != Linux.
Am I wrong in the expectation that if this prejudice isn't resolved, Red Hat is going to suffer a backlash from those that believe in the Freedom of Linux?
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
Runs on my Thinkpad 570E just fine.....except for the damn modem!
Typical case of marketing pushing for something without first confirming with the engineers. The other second common problem is for marketting pushing for a product release before it is up to par.
This most commonly happen on organizations with a formal marketing deparment.
Too late, it's already been done. Just saw this the other day (a Linux-specific keyboard), but don't remember where.
I'll post the link if I can find it.
IMHO, IBM has really come out in the right direction here with the install guide and pointing out exactly what hardware works and what doesn't.
I wish more vendors would give out explicit details of how to configure their hardware during the install process. Let's face it, Linux works with almost anyting, as long as you know how to configure it (except those idiotic winmodems). I'd really appreciate it if other vendors told you what install/kernel options to choose for their hardware.
This is a basic problem with Linux, the OS should be capable of determining what hardware is in the computer and choosing a more specialized configuration. We don't really need (or want) hardware vendors to ship us binary drivers, but working up an autoconfigurator script would be very useful.
Back on topic, the Thinkpad is certainly a good box; a little pricey, but what would you expect from IBM? Nice to see Linux support is being taken seriously. A couple more years and we'll have that world domination thing worked out...
Found it. The link is at Linux PR, the company is CoolKeyboards, and you can get 'em at Linux Mall or sales@coolkeyboards.com
The community is falling into an unintentional trap. We're waiting for action from corporations AGAIN, before we do anything... This is no the way Linux was made into a usable OS, and it's not the reason it's compatible on so many platforms. IBM should open up the hardware specs and let the developer community go nuts, that way it'd be compatible with everything. Why WON'T this modem work under Linux? I'm assuming it will work under something (OS/2, Windoze), and if it does, it should be possible to make it work under Linux, FreeBSD etc as well... If IBM doesn't want to open up the specs, it's an IBM problem, use hardware that IS open... Idealistic, but it's the best way.
What does compatable mean any more? The concept has been sufficiently blurred over the last few years that such a designation is dubious at best. Furthermore, why "Redhat" compatable? Can some explain which parts won't work with SUSE or Debian and why?
I suspect we are past the days of binary, black & white thinking about compatability. We need a more sophisticated "compatability designation" now, don't we? How about something like that geek code some of you sign with. A hardware version could contain all the info you need, and simply be run through a decoder to indicate all the details:
a) Modem: Winmodem, only works when in another OS
b) Sound Card: Specs, works with kernels 2.0.x
c) NIC: Specs, blah blah blah
Perhaps it could even be expanded to give us a sense of the feel and mood of the hardware - techno-power machine with peripherals duct taped to the side and sitting inside a fridge, or pastel or neon iMac, etc.
Hmmmm....
---------------------------- DevNull - a discernible void in the province of Saskatchewan
The winmodems have no other purpose than to be cheap. Even under windows, they are inferior to a normal modem because they offload processing onto the CPU.
The Thinkpad, OTOH, uses a DSP to drive their modem and sound (which, btw, is supported by Linux). It has to be initialized at boot-time, but does all the necessary thinking by itself. Just because there is no driver for Linux doesn't change the fact that it's a perfectly wonderful modem.
There is, of course, an issue about how much support IBM has given developers for this particular project, but please save the "cheap-ass hardware in name brand laptop" rant for elsewhere. IBM's laptops are nearly without peer in their engineering and attention to detail.
You can rant and rave all you want. It does not matter. IBM is like the IRS - the people who work in certain depts. get their paychecks for whatever they do. For instance,
/. ? Do they care? And more importantly, is there an email id, or is this the archetype of the faceless bureaucracy?
"Early Tuesday morning, says Tim Eades, a segment marketing manager for
IBM Thinkpads, IBM will set up a Web page for the Thinkpad 600E that will
include the compatibility announcement"
Indeed, the article is up and running, and it says that Thinkpad is 'compatible' with linux.
What this means is another matter. But you can rest assured that if you call up IBM, a drone-like voice will assure you that it is 'compatible with redhat linux'.
What interests me is - does anybody at IBM actually read
L.
How can you possibly support Linux in general? You would have no idea what hodge-podge of drivers/libs that any given user has. But, if you stick with a particular distribution, then you would be dealing with a known sub-set.
Think about it. If you were a major hardware manufacturer, and you were looking to support a particular distribution, which would you choose? Obviously the most prevelant and generally supported distribution, which, for the time being, is Red Hat.
Mir tut es leid, Menschen daß Einfältigfehlersuchenbaumfolgendenaffen sind.
Besides having all the hardware be compatible, a linux notebook needs a keyboard without windows keys.
:-)
Steal em.. Where's the code to allow the keys to be used in Linux and potentially reprogrammed to do whatever you want?
Scratch the Windows logo off and get a little Penguin key. Someone should start selling little tiny penguin keys or stickers to go over the windows one. Ahh, if I wasn't so lazy....
---
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.