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France To Investigate Microsoft's Business Practices
Renaud writes "The French Ministry of Economy and Finances today announced it would launch an investigation on Microsoft's alleged "dominant position abuse".
Another article talks about the forced bundling of Windows 98 with new PCs.
Interestingly enough, a Microsoft France spokesman is quoted as saying : "If someone doesn't want to use Windows 98, he can bring his computer back to his reseller, who will fill a coupon and refund him"." Yes, it's true; the article are in French - so head over to The Fish and try to make heads or tails of the translation.
This thing where /. posters compare apples (community-centered moderation) with oranges ("blackouts" imposed by outside authorities) is REALLY beginning to get me down. They are a) different, b) different, c) different.
Your eyes should have passed over the following before you clicked on that button marked "submit."
Wow, even moderated posts? You mean they don't get sent to the bit bucket?
How does this compare with Iran circa 1989's policy toward, oh, say, Salman Rushdie novels?
A short list of related thoughts:
My sincere apologies to you if you weren't defending this idea that strikes me as completely crackpot, and to anybody who has the misfortune to read this screed. I guess it was the "post too far".
France Telecom Paris: Intranet under Linux.
Alcove could obtain this market as much by the quality of its technical response that by a very professional offer of services. Through this service, France Telecom Paris becomes the 500ème customer of Alcove.
Project PHENIX (Platform of Standardized HEbergement of the Intranet under linuX) of France Telecom Paris: Each unit and the state major of France Telecom Paris (6300 people on the whole) develops their own sites Intranet, and of the possible interfaces with data bases. These sites are lodged today on heterogeneous servers (Windows NT and Linux) and mainly developed with the FrontPage software. The dynamic pages or those with access to the data bases are created using ASP/VBSript or Perl.
France Telecom Paris wishes to make migrate the whole of these sites Intranet towards a Linux platform, supporting all the existing functionalities or to come. The objective is to improve comfort of the users, to allow a better evolutionarity, and to ensure a simplified exploitation and an administration induced by the recognized stability of the system.
The technical proposal of Alcove: For the Linux platform, the distribution Debian GNU/Linux was retained. The Web server turns under Apache with support of Perl, PHP (more flexible and more powerful than its functional equivalent ASP/VBScript), and of the FrontPage extensions. The DBMS selected is PostgreSQL (software free in conformity with standard SQL 92), whose driver ODBC allows a transparent use of the DBMS from stations customers under Windows. For the updates of documents, Alcôve chose to implement software ftp ProFTPD, at the same time powerful and made safe.
An offer of services complete and very professional: The contract signed by France Telecom Paris and Alcôve is an annual engagement. It integrates the follow-up of the whole of the project by an officer project, consulting in Free Data processing, of the days of consulting, the interventions on site for and the configuration installation of the servers, the days of formation and a contract of technical aid.
For Small Lucien, chairman of Alcove: " This very beautiful project at France Telecom as well as the strategic partnership tied lately with SGI confirm our place of leader of the services in Free Data processing. Our positioning, with the interface of the community of the free developers of software and the world of the company, enables us to fully satisfy waitings of our customers large accounts and our partners. It is besides to meet more precisely still their needs than we currently work with the proposal for contracts of assistance 24/7. "
Only 'flamers' flame!
Bring his computer back?
So basically if you don't want to use Windows, you have to bring back your entire computer for a refund?
if this was truely a Microsoft statement, then it's time to outlaw the company. I think they are getting too dangerous for our good.. Let the Americans have Microsoft if they desire product slavery, but I think they should not be allowed to trade in Europe anymore. Other monopolies got shut down, even in the overly capitalistic USA, why not Microsoft? Who did they bribe?
The only sensible way to deal with Microsoft these days seems to be to either sell your soul to them, or to hate them. A compromise seems no longer possible.
Yes, this might seem a little radical, but please - even a three year old should be able to see that MS has gotten way out of whack with reality.
When refunding pc's with windows was tried in the US it failed miserably. Even though Microsoft said that it would allow customer's to bring thier PC's back, I doubt many people will take advantage of that offer. If people should, and an actual Refund Windows movement get started in France, I think Microsoft will quickly change its position on that offer. Microsoft Press People say anything to make the company look goo.
Is it progress if a cannibal uses a fork?
I'm pretty sure the large majority of the population don't have an opinion, since they don't all buy computers on a regular basis.
The analogy of buying a car without an engine is wrong. I would consider the CPU to be the engine, and the OS to be petrol.
In M$ case, you are being forced to buy a 5 year supply of petrol from only one supplier at a fixed price way above the price of petrol at other suppliers. If you don't want to buy the petrol, don't buy the car, is their rationale. Sure, you can buy the car, and then put any other petrol into it, and it will run, but you still have to pay for theirs even if you don't use it.
Thats a better analogy, but I think reducing a complex problem to an analogy doesn't work very well.
the AC
Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
OTOH however, I have asked dozends of resellers how much they discounted if I didn't take Windows or the bundled software that came with their machine and none of them agreed to a refund despite the EULA. I pointed out that this was illegal for the above reasons and that the case has already been made in court but they didn't seem to care.
I suppose that as usual, when I guet a new intel bow, I'll have to assemble it myself.
May contain traces of nut.
Made from the freshest electrons.
In most countries, there are certain laws to protect consumers such as trade practices acts. While commonly used for goods and services, I have not heard of any widely-publicised cases for software. Some specific business conducts which tend to be frowned upon are:
a) refusal to supply - in vertically integrated businesses, refusing to supply an intermediate product in order to damage a competitor. This is a particular worry in the fast pace IT industry as rapid obsolescence can lead to a permanent loss of competitiveness.
b) third line forcing - making acceptance of goods from another party a condition of supply Apart from the obvious one of hardware/OS, this is a rather subtle act for pure software as it is not always clear who owns shares in what company and thus manipulate the consumer into buying closely held products.
c) limitations on resale - intrinsic value of a product (e.g. car) is often determined by the resale value but licenses tying software to particular CPUs or sites make it difficult to transfer software easily.
d) failure of implied warrenties - fair trading acts usually specify minimum rights such as clear title, merchantable quality, and fitness for specified purpose. If anyone has read the end-user licenses recently, they might get a shock as to what they are really buying.
What is surprising is the relative placidity of consumers when it comes to software quality. If cars break down as often as hardware/software, there would be mass class action lawsuits. The question should be why are we so gullible and how long will people put up with it?
LL
Ouch. Poor micro~1. They have the "La Service de la Répression des Frauds" unleashed on them. In the international tax-dodging world, these guys are known as the pitbulls. If you ever try to claim you work for a company in the British Virgin Islands, or any other tax haven, you can be sure your dossier will end up on their desk. Then you can be sure of paying up or going to jail.
The SRF is known for creating teams of elite investigators to research the toughest white collar criminal cases in France. They are well funded, probably they have a budget bigger than the tax revenue they recover (but they make up for it by scaring all the little fry into being more honest).
M$ was put on notice last year of a preliminary investigation. That is two steps away from being charged with a crime. Today the morning radio had lots of commentary on this, with speculation that criminal charges would not be far behind. Fraud cases don't get this far without solid evidence and a guaranteed win in the courts.
The one nice/scary thing about France is that corporations don't shield individuals from criminal charges. If this case is won by the government, they will probably request prison sentences for the senior M$ employees who signed the contracts with the PC distributors in France. I would expect 5 to 7 people to get ~1 year sentences, and another 20 to 50 to get suspended (avec surcis, similar to american parole) sentences.
Watch this one carefully, the EC in Brussels (whom we all love to hate), is watching as well. Talk is that if the EC moves against M$ after a French win, you will not be able to buy windoze along with your computer, it will have to be purchased separately and installed by the user. This is where cool looking installation scripts like Caldera/TrollTech will help Linux get used by the masses.
the AC
Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
It's not the first time MS is having problem with the French governement. In answer to some query of the French governement about some Y2K issue, MS told them they should upgrade their software (that they just bought one year ago); the Frencg gov was not so pleased about being taxed an upgrade just so their brand new windows boxes could work past Dec 99. They started some ivestigations earlier this year.
On another note, the professor has a very good, if you have a windows box and you buy a new one, you pay for Windows twice. France has some good consumers protections organizations, tho I don't know how effective they are.
Janus
Forced to Buy Software in Duplicate
To confront these criticisms, the specialized services of Bercy must put gather up the procedures already begun across various departments in order to closely examine the various lawsuits. "If this investigation shows abnormal situations or obstacles with market rules, we'll be checking with the competition," Bercy was told. The essential point is that Microsoft would risk legal action and fines. One of the first to address the complaint folder on fraud control is a compsci teacher at some school in Paris, Roberto Di Cosmo. A computer enthusiast and the author of a vitriolic book against Microsoft, Roberto Di Cosmo thinks the multinational abuses its position as leader.
"When you buy a computer today," he explains, "you buy the box and the software accompanying it. And even if the latter represents some 20% of the price, this is never spelled out," he laments. On a computer costing five thousand francs, some one thousand francs would go toward software. One of these programs is Windows 98, Microsoft's operating system, which is essential for running the machine. "Because computers are sold already equipped with Windows, as soon as you change computers, you end up buying Windows again!" explains Roberto Di Cosmo. For months now, this computer expert has in vain demanded from his retailer refunds for several programs that he now has duplicates of, since he hasn't sold his used computers.
Promise of Compensation
"Indeed, this situation can appear abnormal ", comments Jérôme Franck, a lawyer specializing in consumer law. But to date, only one purchaser in France, a teacher from Montpellier, has been reimbursed by his retailer. On this matter, the Microsoft position seems to evolve. "We are ready to refund," we were told yesterday by Vahé Torossian, director at Microsoft France of divisions manufacturer and general public and therefore specialist in licensing questions. "We mislead no one," he adds. "When you buy a new car, you don't ask your manufacturer to install your old car's engine in the new car. Similarly, Windows 98 is the engine of each computer". That said, Vahé Torossian assures that his firm is ready with possible refunds. "If someone doesn't care to use Windows 98, they can bring back their computer to thier retailer, who will fill out a slip, then refund it", he states. That's good news for Microsoft's opponents, even if the amount of these "redunds" is still unknown.
[End Translation]
(In the US) If I buy a book, it is treated as a hybrid of physical and intellectual property in which I as a consumer get the best sides of both.
To the extent that it is treated as a physical object, I *own* it. I can sell it, read it backwards, cut it apart and glue the pages back together in a wrong order (and then sell it!) analyze the grammatical structure, the plot progression, etc. That copy of the work becomes my property.
To the extent that it is intellectual property, I own rights to fair personal use. I can make a photocopy of the book and take it to work to read at my leisure. If it's a CD, I can copy it to a tape to listen to in my car. Nothing bars me from having two copies open simultaneously. (if I do sell the book or CD, I do have to destroy my copies, though)
Software licenses take the opposite stance. It is regarded as physical property, in that you need a license for each and every copy, not merely for the content of the software. It is intellectual property in that you don't own it, can't transfer it or resell it, or even look at it the wrong way.
Whether software companies have a natural right to do business in this way is another debate, but it is unarguable that this agreement is quite contrary to people's expected view of what they're getting when they "buy" Windows or Office at the store, boxed as a consumer product, given normal practices regarding copyrighted work. If countries wish to make laws enforcing these standard practices in the name of 'fairness', I'm all for it. It's worked this long for all other copyrighted properties.