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Ask Slashdot: Is Professional Engineering Certification Necessary?
resilient asks: "I have one year before I graduate with a degree in Electrical Engineering. I have the opportunity to take a preperation class for the first test in order to get my Professional Engineering Certificate (P.E.). My question is to all the experienced Electrical Engineers or Computer Engineers: Do I need a P.E. to succeed in today's industry? Will it be a limiting factor? In what situations would you reccomend taking it? I am open for any advice you may have." Another certification issue, but when it comes to engineering, I think the certifications become VERY important. What do you all say?
When I was still in school a few years ago I had this same idea presented to me in a senior design project meeting/lecture. If you're getting your EE/CE/CSE I really wouldn't worry to much about the certification. I suppose it won't hurt, but in the end, it's just one more piece of paper that only proves that you know how to take a test. I've only been in the real world for 3 1/2 years now and each company that I've interviewed with, they've been looking for the following:
1) experience (that includes what you did for projects in school)
2) knowledge (most interviews will have one interviewer ask you technical questions, at least that's been my experience)
3) and the final (and sometimes most important issue) is how well everyone on the team thinks you will fit in with the group. If your personality doesn't fit with everyone else's it may lead to clashes. Now, that isn't the overriding factor but I've seen it taken with a fair amount of weight when all of the interviewers talk after the interview process.
In the end, if you want to get the certification then take the test. It can't hurt but I don't know if right now in this economy it will matter all that much.
Just my $0.02.
A friend of mine got his undergraduate degree from MIT in electrical engineering. He later innocently took out a consulting ad in a business directory. Turns out, that to advertise as an engineer in California, the professional certification is required.
He spent a year cramming for the test and got his certification, but he said it would have been a lot easier just after he graduated (15 years earlier.) So if you have any thought of being in business for yourself, I'd have to recommend taking the test now.
For example, a PE usually signs off the design of an aircraft in order to show that in his best judgement it will hold up and not fall apart after a few flights. If the PE doesn't sign it or there are no PE's to check the design, then it will be hard to market the plane. Even though a PE certification doesn't mean that they are smarter, it does provide some assurance that the PE would not have signed off if he believed that the design was unsafe.
In a computer related field, this does not really matter since you can obvisouly tell for the most part if a design works by building prototypes. A computer company will not care if the design is singed off, as long as the product works. Before the product is sold, the company will test it and work all the bugs are out. With civil engineering, you usually only get one shot. For example, you want the designs for a bridge done right the first time, because it would cost big $$$ to rebuild it because an engineer didn't do the calculations correctly.
That's my
Peter Gogas
had told me.....
1) It lets you approve the construction designs of buildings over 50,000 square feet.
2) It lets you testify in a court of law as an expert.
Given that you have to get your ET before your PE, and you have to have 4 years of RL experience before your PE becomes active, the payoff is not right away.
If you get certified, and never use it...where is the harm in that?
You went to college, so little scraps of paper saying you know something matters. So, go for this scrap also.
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
I have one year before I graduate with a degree in Electrical Engineering. I have the opportunity to take a preperation class for the first test in order to get my Professional Engineering Certificate (P.E.).
From my understanding of the certificate system (at least as it relates to other types of engineering, i.e. Civil, Mechanical, Industrial), you are required to receive the E.I.T. (Engineer In Training) test prior to the P.E., however I'm not too sure what's involved on the Electrical Engineering side.
Do I need a P.E. to succeed in today's industry?
That depends almost completely on what kind of job you are looking to get into. For instance, if you were looking to design an underground fiber optical system in which government permits (either local or state) are going to be a factor, then you would definitely need the certificate--as most state and local agencies that require any project, in which liability could be claimed, require the signature/endorsement of a certified engineer. This has become so common place that a person who has a P.E. can make a good living just approving and endorsing projects that other uncertified engineers actually designed(I actually know someone that does this exclusively, and makes quite a good living at this).
On the other hand, if you aren't designing things that could cause liability, the requirement of a certificate may not be part of the job description. It might just be something that is listed as "preferred."
A good idea might be to call some H.R. representatives at a couple companies, that are in the line of that you wish to go into, and ask them what their requirements and preferrances are about certifications. This will give you a better idea of whether it is "worth while" for you to get it.
Will it be a limiting factor?
In the field of engineering, or any field for that matter, certificates are a good thing when it comes to getting a job (keeping that job is a different story).
In what situations would you reccomend taking it?
If you have the means and the opportunity to take the exam, do it. It will afford you a wider range of jobs to choose from.
Many of the comments I have read indicate that some people are confusing a Professional Engineering license with some other sort of "professional" certification like a MSCE or CNE. The two are very different sorts of animal. Once you fulfill the requirements to become a professional engineer and actually get the license, your state (assuming you're in the USA) recognizes that you are an engineer and you are allowed to do a number of things that non-engineers aren't allowed to do. The PE exam is for engineers very much like the bar exam is for lawyers
So, should you become a professional engineer? Maybe. You should take the EIT (engineer in training) exam while you can still remember all your courses---especially the ones in the fields that aren't your speciality. It doesn't really cost you anything and can make your life easier down the road.
Once you get the practical experience (you need to have worked under for a PE for a while in order to be eligible to take the PE exam) then you can consider whether or not it would be worthwhile for you to take the PE exam. It might be worthwhile for an electrical engineer to become a PE if he wanted to become a consulting engineer and especially if he wanted to design equipment that was to be itself certified by some agency like UL.
I've read some of the responses so far and let me tell you that you people should not be responding! First, let me say, I HAVE A PE LICENSE! As an electrical engineer, you most likely will not need one. PE licenses, for the most part, are needed to seal construction documents. Anything that is sent into the state for approval such as building plans will need the stamp of a PE. Usually, only Civil and Structural engineers bother with a PE license for they are the only ones sending documents into the state. As an EE, you will be working for a large corporation with private contracts. Nothing that needs state approval and therefore nothing that needs a stamp. As for getting one for prestige, as before, this is very important for Civil and Structural Engineers. I have many friends whom are EEs and a PE has never entered their minds. They almost look down on it as though it is a title for us lowly Civils (Structurals) to make us feel better because we can't make the $$ like the EE and ChemE can. As for the requirements for a PE, they are as follows: 1.) You must pass the Fundamentals of Engineering exam. Basically, this is a broad general test of all of engineering. 2.) You must have a min of 4 years of experience. The time is less for those with a Masters or a Ph.D. This experience must be supervised by a registered PE. The requirements of proof vary from state to state, but here, you are required three letters of recommendation from fellow PEs as proof of your experience. 3.) You must pass the PE exam, which is very long and difficult. There is also a SE license in Cal and Ill. Cal's is very very difficult. They cap the number they allow yearly, so passing the test isn't enough. Ill's is a little easier in that all you have to do is pass the exam, but the requirements are just as difficult. IIRC, Eight years total experience and another eight-hour exam.
If you do anything where somebody could come to harm, be it design a bridge (civil engr.), design a car (m.e.) or medical devices (EE, ME), you need a PE to advance in the field and do anything meaningful. A PE means you take legal responsibility for ANYTHING that bears your signature.... sometimes you can face criminal charges (remember the Kansas City skywalk in the hotel??)
Read anything by Henry Petroski.
I work as an analog designer in silicon valley. I am not a PE, no one I work with is a PE, I have never known a PE. (Electrical Engineer, that is.) I once asked one of my professors about certification (you should too) and he told me that it doesn't make any sence for EEs because the test is very broad and tends to be light in electronics anyway. It makes more sense for Civil engineers. Really, did any of your EE classes talk about stress analysis? Are they going to test you about carrier movement in semicondictors?
The only certification I needed was my degree. (It IS important that you go to an accredited university.) But, the more experience I get, the less important that becomes.
When I interview for a job, I am not asked to produce documentation for some test I took. No, I am asked "What have you designed that went into production? Tell me about it." Any EE who keeps his (her) head where the sun shines will quickly find out how much you know. In this buisiness, if someone is depending on a certification, it is because they don't know anything (and probably have pointy hair).
B.T.W, When you are interviewing and discussing any experience you may have, be prepared to answer not just what engineering decisions you made, but why.
Matt
As an electrical/electronic or computer engineer, having or lacking a license will probably not affect your career very greatly.
However, I'd still recommend for you to get your license. I'm a computer engineering graduate (working for three years so far, currently in embedded software) studying for my M.Sc. in EE but don't have my license yet (mostly because I am away from my home country and therefore can't fulfill the residency requirement). My dad is a P.Eng. as are many of the people I know (mostly hardware guys with some software thrown in). My wife is a geotechnical engineer and she most definitely will require one in the near future. The consensus seems to be:
Having a license does not get you promoted any faster or help you to find work in high tech.
A license does not mean that you have any particular expertise (contrast with CNE etc) other than a good engineering education from an accredited school and a history of good practice.
A license probably won't mean that you get paid more for a job (unless you are a civil or mechanical engineer in which case you can get paid LOTS more if you have a license in some cases).
It does mean that you are allowed to call yourself an engineer (don't tell me you worked so hard at school only to be prevented from printing the word 'engineer' on your business cards ). In some countries, "Engineer" is a title like Doctor (esp. in Spanish speaking ones I think).
If you are working for a small firm or consulting, this can be very important and in many jurisdictions, there is work that can only be performed by or signed off by engineers. For large corporations, there is sort of a blanket license they can use but this requires them to have a certain ratio of engineers to other staff.
Most P.Eng.s that I know also carry liability insurance (often as a package with their membership in professional associations). This is to cover your liability for designs you sign off on. Again, this applies more to Mechs and Civils. Remember that you are a member of a profession...
Very often, the professional associations will advertise conferences and so on. It is definitely worthwhile to attend these if possible (heck, they're probably subsidised with your membership dues).
A large part of joining a profession is agreeing to follow a code of ethical practice and responsibility (similar to law or medicine). In some places you take an oath swearing this.
Like law and medicine (and accounting I think), engineering is a self-regulating profession. Because of the effect that engineers can have on public safety, they traded some freedom in return for less regulation from the government. Whether this was a good bargain or not remains debatable (but was the right thing to do at the time IMO).
I'm rather surprised that so many Slashdotters don't know more about the profession. When I was an undergrad we were required to take courses about the history and practice of engineering. Does this mean that SDers are mostly computer science weenies?
Without getting into the discussion about whether or not a PE certification is intrinsically valuable, my advice would be to go ahead and take the EIT (that is, the first exam in the sequence - sounds as if the name may have changed) your senior year. The reason is that in order to pass the EIT you will need to use skills from your distribution requirements in other engineering areas (statics, thermo) plus physics, that you will almost certainly forget after 2-3 years in the "real world". So if you take the EIT now, you are prepared to go PE later if it looks like a good option. But if you don't take the EIT now, you are faced with months of evenings doing problems from textbooks you will have to dig out of the storage locker.
sPh
"It was all basic engineering (thermodynamics, statics, basic circuit analysis, etc.).
I was weak in the cross-discipline engineering stuff anyway (because I knew that I would never use it). The test had absolutely no relevance for my career, so I didn't waste the money."
Interesting. Both in my own work, and in the people I have interviewed/rejected/hired, it is exactly the the cross-discipline lessons (both classroom and work experience) that have helped me the most. I haven't done any PL/I programming or solved any problems in discrete mathematics for a long time (since school, actually). But learning how to break down, analyze, and solve complex problems in mechanical dynamics helps me every day in network troubleshooting. Similarly, climbing to the top of a 300' (~100m) chimney to test a sensor didn't seem particularly relevant to anything - except now I find myself having to explain to young'ens without that experience why reliability in a network is important. So I would be careful about focusing too closely on the surface of your chosen field of work. The surface, the field, even the type of work you do changes over time. Deep lessons about how the world works remain valid.
sPh