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Red Hat Moves Into European Linux Marketplace

bOnUs (among others) slipped us the skinny on a story @ silicon.com that talks about how Red Hat is gonna use recent cash injections from Dell, Oracle and IBM to increase its presence in the heart of S.u.S.E. territory, AKA Europe. Normal business expansion in an increasingly borderless world? An attempt at creating Red Hat World Domination? This can be interpreted either way.

8 of 85 comments (clear)

  1. Depends on how RedHat actually does things by Falsch+Freiheit · · Score: 3

    RedHat could either go and start targetting advertising for people that are already using Linux and try and grab as much of the existing Linux market as they can, or they can try and target advertising towards people that aren't yet using Linux.

    Traditionally, RedHat has done both. I've seen RedHat advertising in the Linux Journal as well as in other computer magazines (probably mostly ones aimed at Unix users or programmers, though).

    I suspect that RedHat will continue to do both in Europe, too.

    At the very least, any attempt to completely only target at potential new Linux users instead of existing Linux users would be suicidal if successful because part of what helps to get new Linux users using a particular distribution is that it's the distribution their long-time Linux using friend (or colleague or random people in a local LUG, whatever) either uses or recommends.

    So, of course RedHat moving into Europe will take at least some business from SuSE, in the sense that there are people that might try SuSE and will instead try RedHat.

    Hopefully they'll both manage to expand the general Linux market enough, however, that business will continue to expand for both of them.

  2. encryption export? by mcc · · Score: 4

    how will this affect Redhat's ability to include things like SSH, or other packages involving strong crypto, in european releases?

    they aren't allowed to ship those things outside the US now, right? so now will they be allowed to just send over the source code to the european offices and have _them_ compile the packages, thus circumventing the export controls?

    unless i'm really confused, this would be a _very_ interesting test of the "code-is-free-speech" waiver to the export controls. An american country publishing open source software with strong crypto through a branch located outside the US.. hmm

    -mcc-baka

  3. Red Hat MUST Act for World Domination by The+Ancient+Geek · · Score: 3

    No--I'm not writing flame bait. I'm stating brutal, legal, fact in U.S. law.

    Everybody got all kinds of enthused a few weeks back when Red Hat did an IPO. Yeah, things got kind of funky about who could get pre-IPO shares and so forth, but Red Hat did the right thing and lots of deserving people got in on the bottom floor.

    But guess what? Red Hat is now a publicly-traded company. And the directors of a publicly-traded company have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders to maximize revenue. Let me re-phrase that in a different way: the directors of a publicly-traded company must always view the interests of their shareholders as being more important than the views of any group--employees, customers, community--anybody.

    So it is entirely fair to assume that Red Hat is moving into Europe intent on dominating the European marketplace for Linux. (Note, BTW, that the Red Hat official doesn't say, "for our distro of Linux"--he says, "for Linux.") Red Hat has to fight for market dominance, and defend their marketplace dominance, or else they're going to join the long list of technology companies that get clobbered by shareholder rights suits.

    We might all agree that the people at Red Hat are worthy folks. We might all agree that they are noble of heart, and true of purpose. But once they become a publicly-traded company, they have to constantly increase their share value, or their stock will be hammered. And if their stock price is hammered, and a plaintiff can demonstrate that the directors acted on behalf of another group to the detriment of the shareholders, Red Hat can lose a huge chunk of money. In other words, Red Hat cannot act "for the good of the Linux community" if that means that Red Hat revenues--in this quarter--will suffer.

    My little company develops large-scale software projects--but we also develop components for database vendors. Two of our clients have been through this process--when you go public, the rules suddenly change. No more Mr. Nice Guy. No more whim-of-the-boss perks like Free Pizza Day or flying the staff to Bermuda for lunch. And all of a sudden there is no more visiting back and forth with industry chums, no more collegiality, no more "hey, we're all in this together." Suddenly the view--driven by all those guys in ties that Wall Street required you to hire--is that if we're all in this together, "this" must be a knife fight. (More or less verbatim quote from a finance guy--with really good hair--at a client's.)

    Red Hat's going to wipe the floor with SUSE--and SUSE won't know what hit 'em. It's not that Red Hat is Evil--it is simply that Red Hat has moved up to a different league, and in that league that's how the game is played.

  4. No problem, as long as they publish sources by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 5
    Red Hat has a history of publishing source, heeding free software licenses, and being nice to the developer community. Let's assume they will continue to do that, and will thus publish their internationalization work so that others can make use of it in competing products. What, then, do we have to lose from this? Not much, as far as I can tell.

    If we go beyond the things that probably aren't going to go wrong, we have one fear - that Red Hat may achieve name recognition and brand loyalty elsewhere, as it has in the U.S.

    Pardon me if I don't throw a fit about this :-)

    Thanks

    Bruce

    1. Re:No problem, as long as they publish sources by xnixnix · · Score: 3

      As this crap about the Yast license comes up now and again - here the text in full - even if it bothers u. I have bolded out some stuff that i find interesting or problematic. What do ESR and RS think about this license anyway? Read it then make your judgements:
      YaST Copyright (c) 1995 - 98 S.u.S.E. GmbH, Furth (Germany)

      The object of this licence is the YaST (Yet another Setup Tool) program,
      the name YaST, together with S.u.S.E. Linux, the Linux Distribution of
      S.u.S.E. GmbH, all programme derived from YaST and all works or names
      derived in full or in part thereof together with the use, application,
      archiving, reproduction and passing on of YaST, all programs derived
      from YaST and all works derived in full or in part thereof. The YaST
      program and all sources is the intellectual property of S.u.S.E. GmbH
      within the meaning of the Copyright Law. The name YaST is a registered
      trademark of S.u.S.E. GmbH. In the following S.u.S.E. GmbH is the
      licensor and every user or processor of YaST or works derived in full
      or in part thereof, together with every person who reproduces,
      distributes or archives YaST or S.u.S.E. Linux, is the licensee of
      S.u.S.E. GmbH.

      The following licence terms are recognised as a result of the processing,
      use, application, archiving reproduction and dissemination of YaST.
      distribute or to amend YaST or works derived from it. These actions are
      forbidden by the copyright act, if this licence is not recognised. If
      this licence is recognised and complied with in full, it is also valid
      even without the written consent of the Licensee.

      1. Usage
      YaST and S.u.S.E. Linux may be used for personal and commercial
      purposes if the copyright and licence terms of the installed packages
      and programmes are observed.
      The use of YaST, even if a modified
      version is used, does NOT exempt in particular the Licensee from the
      duty to take due care with regard to the licence terms of the
      packages or programmes installed through YaST or works based on it.

      2. Processing
      All programmes derived from YaST and all works derived from it in full
      or parts thereof are to be filled on the opening screen with the clear
      information "Modified Version". Moreover the operator give his name on
      the opening screen, stating that S.u.S.E. GmbH is not providing any
      support for the "Modified Version" and is excluded from any liability
      whatsoever. Every amendment to the sources which are not conducted by
      S.u.S.E. GmbH are deemed to be a "Modified Version". The Licensee is
      based on the YaST programme is created, provided that the following
      conditions are satisfied.

      a) Every amendment must have a note in the source with date and
      operator. The amended sources must be made available for the user
      in accordance with section 3) together with the unamended licence.

      b) The Licensee is obliged to make all work distributed by him which
      is derived as a whole or in part from YaST or parts of YaST to
      third parties as a whole under the terms of this licence without
      royalties.


      c) The amendment of this licence by a Licensee, even in part, is
      forbidden.

      S.u.S.E. GmbH reserves the right to accept parts or all amendments of
      a modified version of YaST into the official version of YaST free of
      charge. The Licensee has no bearing on this.

      3. Dissemination
      It is forbidden to reproduce or distribute data carriers which have
      written consent of S.u.S.E. GmbH or S.u.S.E. Linux. Distribution of
      the YaST programme, its sources, whether amended or unamended in full
      or in part thereof, and the works derived thereof for a charge require
      the prior written consent of S.u.S.E. GmbH.


      All programmes derived from YaST, and all works derived thereof as a
      whole or parts thereof may only be disseminated with the amended
      sources and this licence in accordance with 2b). Making YaST or
      works derived thereof available free of charge together with S.u.S.E.
      Linux on FTP Servers and mailboxes is permitted if the licences on the
      software are observed.


      4. Guarantee
      No guarantee whatsoever is given for YaST or for works derived from
      it and S.u.S.E. Linux. The S.u.S.E. GmbH guarantee only covers
      fault-free data carriers.

      S.u.S.E. GmbH will provide YaST and S.u.S.E. Linux "AS IT IS" without
      any guarantee whatever that it is fit for a specific purpose or use.
      In particular S.u.S.E. is not liable for lost profit, savings not
      made, or damages from the claims lodged by third parties against the
      indirect consequential losses, in particular not for the loss or
      production of recorded data.

      The observance of the respective licences and copyrights of the
      installed software is incumbent solely upon the user of YaST and
      S.u.S.E. Linux.

      5. Rights
      No other rights to YaST or to S.u.S.E. Linux are granted other than
      those negotiated in this licence. An infringement against this
      licence automatically terminates the rights of the Licensee. However
      the right of third parties who have received copies or rights under
      this licence from the Licensee, are not terminated as long as all
      parts of his licence are recognised and observed. If the Licensee
      is subject to conditions, or obligations as a result of a court
      judgement, patent terms, licence terms, or another reason, and these
      conditions or obligations contradict this licence as a whole or in
      part, the Licensee shall only be exempted in full or in part from
      this licence and its terms with the express prior written consent
      of S.u.S.E. S.u.S.E. is entitled to withhold its consent without
      giving reasons. 6. Additional restrictions.
      If the distribution or use of YaST and S.u.S.E. Linux or parts of
      S.u.S.E. Linux is restricted in a state either by patents or by
      interfaces protected by copyright, S.u.S.E. GmbH can specify an
      explicit geographic restriction of the distribution of YaST and
      S.u.S.E. Linux or parts of S.u.S.E. Linux, in which these states
      are fully or partially excluded from distribution. In such a case
      this licence includes the whole or partial restriction as if it was
      written down in this licence.

    2. Re:No problem, as long as they publish sources by Falsch+Freiheit · · Score: 4

      Red Hat has a history of publishing source, heeding free software licenses, and being nice to the developer community.

      And, to be fair, SuSE hasn't been as well known for doing this. In particular, YaST (a major component of SuSE) has a commercial license, which leaves the rest of SuSE, basically, commercially licensed.

      RedHat has a tendency to release what they've done under the GPL instead. (such as RPM) Heck, SuSE uses RPM, as well. In that way, RedHat has already helped SuSE out by releasing their work under the GPL.

  5. That's called competition by Imperator · · Score: 3
    RedHat isn't turning into Microsoft. Trying to compete with your competitors, is, well, competition. RedHat isn't trying to dominate every portion of your computer -- or even any portion. Throwing together a distro isn't rocket science, and RedHat knows that it's impossible to dominate the market.

    Let's look at an example. I own RedApple, which sells apple piesixs. I make all my apple piesix recipes freely and openly available, on the condition that anyone who sells a modified apple piesix without making a special deal with me has to give the recipe to anyone who buys it.

    Of course, apple piesixs ingredients are also all distributed under similar licenses, and anyone with some culinary expertise can put an apple piesix recipe together in a short time. So all that RedApple has over the upstarts a recipe that reflects more time in planning.

    And what if a competitor sells cooked piesixs for $2, or offers to squeeze them through extra-wide phone lines straight to your house for free? I've got to make money, don't I? So I offer support and consulting, to help you deploy Official RedApple Apple Piesix in your large dining room. I advertise and raise awareness not only about my brand, but about apple piesixs in general, and put apple piesix on stove tops and tables that used to use RottenNOP.

    All this time I continue to give back to the apple piesix community with new and improved recipes, even while some of my competitors are turning profits by including proprietary crusts. Yet because RedApple now has a ticker symbol and an insane market value, I'm now more evil than satan himself.

    --

    Gates' Law: Every 18 months, the speed of software halves.
  6. Intelligent in the short term by konstant · · Score: 3

    No doubt many of us will grab our foreheads in disbelief that Red Hat has chosen to spend its money battling another Linux distro rather than increasing its market presence in the US. But if you take a moment to think about it, you see how much sense it makes.

    In the US, Red Hat is the talk du jour, as is Linux itself. The disorganized (or, actually, unwittingly organized) mass media have done a far better job marketing Red Hat Linux in the last few months than any targeted ad campaigns could do.

    In Europe, however, SuSe is making the bucks. It's the number one rule of publicly held companies that the stock must go up. That imperative overrides all other converns. It's for this reason that we see companies purchasing their competitors after they have exhausted their slice of the demographic pie. They have to keep growing if they want to survive.

    Well, RHAT wants to survive. They can't ride the tide forever, but eventually the journalists will discover some other new fad. Thus they have to send a message to their stockholders that RHAT is a sound, competitive investment. One that will continue to grow its market share and maybe someday (preposterous as it sounds) make a little money.

    Thus this maneuver against SuSe. It's the obvious target. The only target, really. They can't pique interest any higher in the US directly, so they're doing it indirectly. And if they happen to gain market share while they're at it, I'm sure they don't mind a bit.

    Oh, and if you're worried this will be a bad thing for Linux, don't. RHAT is not big enough yet to be a MSFT, so in the mean time they'll just be one more capitalist company fighting for dominance. And that always brings benefits to users. At least in the short run.

    -konstant

    --
    -konstant
    Yes! We are all individuals! I'm not!