Knuth lectures on "God and Computers" Online

pq writes "Donald Knuth talks about "God and Computers" as part of the MIT AI lab's 1999 lecture series - a live webcast is available from here, and archived transcripts will also appear there. " Looks like three are finished already, with more coming over the next few weeks. Knuth is always worth listening to.

Comments

Really cool

[washort]

Knuth is such a great guy. i'm listening to lecture #1 right now. :) JonKatz (and other assorted trolls) ought to listen to this - not all Christians are crazy, stupid, or preachy. SOme actually do have a clue. :)

I've read Knuth's "3:16 - Scripture Verses Illuminated" as well, it's a beautiful book. Good insight into the verses presented as well. (It would take a computer scientist to invent a scheme such as this :)

More information available here

[Laitnedurp]

The MIT student newspaper had an interview with Knuth about these lectures, and gives some insight. http://www-tech.mit.edu/V119/N5 1/knuthtlin.51f.html. Basically just Knuth expressing his religious views.

Obviously, it's the Christians who are persecuted.

[Anonymous Coward]

You see, the hypocritical secular humanist atheist liberals (and members of false "religions" like Buddhism and Judiasm) are persecuting us Christians, and violating our right to freedom of religion every day of their lives!

How so, you ask? Easy!

They refuse to take orders from us. Our religion requires us to give them orders, and it requires them to obey. The free and unimpeded practice of our religion requires us to interfere in their private lives by means of legislation. We are required to force their children to pray to our God, we are required to send police officers into their bedrooms to put a stop to their immoral conduct, and the list goes on. But they keep trying not to let us do these things! It's true that we've had a lot of success in many areas, but as long as we're not entirely free to practice our religion, we are (in principle) not at all free to practice our religion. And as the saying goes, "if one man is not free, then none are free". Therefore, if our freedom of religion has been abrogated in this manner, than so has everybody else's freedom of religion. What that means, in simple terms, is that as long as a Buddhist is not forced to practice Christianity -- in fact, as long as he is even allowed to practice Buddhism -- he is being denied the freedom to practice his own religion (Buddhism)! It's an all-or-nothing proposition.


I hope this clarifies the bizarre persecution complex evinced by members of a religion which has totally dominated this country for more than 200 years. Name me a presidential candidate who hasn't professed conventional faith in the Christian God. Name me a self-described "born-again" Republican front-runner who has lost any significant support due to his religious views. Heh. Christian fundamentalists (as starkly opposed to sincere practicing Christians) have political power wildly out of proportion to their numbers. Nevertheless, they continually and quite hysterically paint themselves as "victims" of ill-defined persecution, in order to get sympathy and grab even more power.

Enough is enough. The "help-me-I'm-a-victim" game is annoying but understandable when played by somebody who really has gotten the shitty end of the stick[1], but an enormously powerful and wealthy political force like Christian fundamentalism is another matter entirely. Coming from them, it's just plain disgusting.


------------------------------
[1] My sympathy for some "victims" probably seems offensive to the fundies, and I don't blame them. After all, they feel equally offended by all of Christ's teachings, including his explicit prohibition of divorce.

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[ajs]

Looks like three are finished already, with more coming

Haven't I heard this about Knuth's work before?

;-)

a private venture

[mcjulio]

In these talks, Knuth makes the extremely important point that is missing from so much of what we perceive about Christianity in the Western world today - religion is a private thing, as personal as a lover and just as sacred. In the first talk, he speaks of teaching at Stanford, and refusing to answer students' questions about God and politics. Could this possibly be because he's weak and unable to discuss the subject, or is it more likely that he recognizes what the Religious Right refuses to, namely that God's (however you define him/her) place is not in politics or education or courtrooms, but in the hearts of those who find him/her real?

Is it real? Will it save your life? Is it even Christianity if you don't smear it in your friend's faces? The overwhelming feeling from a scientist who cannot help but feel a reverence for the tradition and the mystery that is human existence is: who cares? What matters is not whether or not you dip or sprinkle, but whether or not you need it to feed your soul.

Many scientists are knee-jerk atheists, being unable to reconcile Genesis with the overwhelming evidence for something different. However, maintaining a spiritual life is not about adhering to the tenants of a specific doctrine. Having not done the research, it nevertheless seems safe to say that Knuth, as a man of scientific mind, cannot reconcile some of the tenants of his faith to what he knows to be true, and has yet found a way to embrace it as a valued and necessary part of his life.

There's a lesson here. Whatever brought us here, whatever keeps us cranking along in life, be it evolution, creation, or something else, there is a piece in 99% of us that is mystical, that asks for some outlet. Accepting Christianity as an outlet does not mean succumbing to the stupidities that are fraught within it, just as they are fraught within every other religion, in varying ways. It does mean acknowledging one's own need for the unknown, and a way to interact with it.

Losing my religion

[sketchy]

Actually, I just came back from Knuth's 3rd
lecture (well...had dinner first). It was on
translating Bible verses without knowledge of
Hebrew or Greek. Yes, I came in saying to everyone
around that "Knuth is God", etc. But the lecture
was horrible. Well...at least it was extremely
uninteresting, IMHO. Maybe some of the other
lectures in the series will be better (maybe first two were), but
that looks doubtful. Art of CP, TeX, good math are all well and supernatural, but
3:16 (what he talked about today) is not. He sounded more like a preacher and less like a diety; that and he can't really give a presentation. Well...I'm going to go back to my altar now...

How to Circumvent "Server is full" or save .rm

[SmiloidalManiac]

video stream: http://www.technetcast.com/av/tnc_mit_dk_02.rm.

Wow! You guys are repressed!

[Arandir]

Apparently, Mr. Knuth's being a christian has deeply offended a lot of you. My guess would be that you're much, much more intolerant of other people than any imagined intolerance on christianity's part.

Geeks hate being wrong (I know, I am one). But that's what christianity is, telling you that you're wrong, a sinner, doomed. But you guys are so narrow minded that you can't get past that to find out that it also talks about what to do about it.

I could of course mention the fact that it was geeks killing christians at Columbine, but that's grossly unfair. Just as unfair as all these posts here blaming religion for all the atrocities in the world.

Christian bashing is the last refuge of the bigot in this era of political correctness.

Re:Wow! You guys are repressed!

[WNight]

Sure. I'll say that I'm less impressed with Knuth now that I know he's religious. No Xian, just religious at all.

I think eventually we'll see religious belief as the same sort of indicator we now see messages about perpetual motion machines. As a sign of someone a little unclear of the whole concept.

Christian bashing is the last refuge of the bigot in this era of political correctness.

Perhaps. But if you're not free to judge somebody based on their opinions, then how the hell are you supposed to form an opinion about anything?

Judging someone on personal grounds by race is wrong. Ethics/Morals aside, it's wrong simply because it skin color doesn't indicate personality. Judging possible skin-cancer victims by race makes sense. Intelligence or creativity have NOT be shown to correspond to skin color, and as such, are stupid things to judge by race.

But, someone's opinions ARE an indicator of their mental processes. Would YOU pick up a neo-nazi hitchhiker? Their behaviour and opinions would tend to indicate violent hatred. Would you go to a doctor who believed in the healing power of engergized crystals? Their opinion would seem to indicate a certain lack of critical thinking.

Similarly, I lose respect for someone who believes in god. It indicates a lack of judgement.

I'm not saying he's a bad person, or that he has nothing valuable to say, but I'll certainly be more critical of what he says, to sort out the good stuff from the religious babble.


On a side note... What really pissed me off with people like the author I'm responding to, and the trend they are a part of, is that they're trying to get people to stop thinking. We're not even allowed to judge people on what they say anymore. Where does this stupidity end?

The moderation of this message makes my point.

[Amphigory]

It has been up-moderated twice. Down-moderate three times. So, which is it? OffTopic? Flamebait? Troll? Overrated? Underrated? Interesting?

The fool below who claims that Christians enjoy no persecution in our society has been moderated directly up.

Oh yeah. For all you who whine about the evils of the religious right: THEY ARE NOT THE MAINBODY OF CHRISTIANITY! And stop your whining: have you people any idea what has been done to Christians in the past and in other countries? Our religious started out with its founder executed. As far as I know, at least 5 of the original twelve apostles were killed by the government of the time.

Why? Because people suck and power corrupts! And whatever group is in power will abuse it. So, you have gross abuse of power by atheists (think Stalin), including abuse of Christians. The Jews are documented to have done some pretty unpleasant things to their enemies (looked in Israel lately and the way they treat the palestinian Christians). Even Eastern faiths are not immune: look at the ethnic conflicts in India/Pakistan sometime. Or consider that the pacific half of WWII was caused by Shinto (the Japanese national religion) racism in addition to its obvious, secular causes. And you have gross abuse of power by putative Christians throughout history, but its probably nothing to compare to what has been done by non-Christians.

I can't speak for any other faith system, but calling yourself a Christian does not make you a Christian! Christ himself said so:

"Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Mark 7:23

Of course, the trick is telling who is and who isn't a "real" Christian. The answer is that you can't. But if you devote yourself first to God then, like numerous Christians who stood up against injustice from the church (notably Dietrich Bonhoeffer in WWII, but also many, many others) you will know what God is calling you to do. Or, as the verse above continues:

"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.

matt 7:24

But, I guess I'm speaking to people who won't listen.

Listen people: I don't slam you. I have in fact walked out of churches when they became to vehement in condemning people of other faiths (not because people of other faiths are right: universalism is an absurdity, but because I can respect them as other peoples attempts to pursue God even when they are wrong). All I ask is that you exercise some care to get your facts straight before you slander me and my brothers.

Oh yeah: for being such repressers, I find it interesting that Christian sentiment was what led most abolitionists to want to abolish slavery.